Re: re another flea; what is dissociating like for you?

December 16, 2008

Hi Walking to Happiness,

Interesting you brought up dissociating as a flea. I have heard of

dissociating as you said -blanking out and not being present. I'm not sure if

the word is dissociating or disassociating, but, I kind of felt that is what I

have used as a coping mechanism since I was a child. For me it wasn't

completely blanking out and not being present-I mean I knew where I was and what

was going on and I sort of blocked it out, zoned out, whatever you want to call

it. I could not handle what was happening and so I just became parallyzed,

frozen in fear and showed no emotion at all.

I do that alot with my nada and my brother. I often feel horrible about it

because I know I come off as being cold, apathetic and not caring, but, I'm

afraid to ever reveal any emotions. I'm also afriad that I'm being sucked into

another drama and I've invested so much of my emotional energy my whole life

only to realize the next day it was like nothing happened.

For me I tend to separate myself from the emotional part as itis too much for me

at the time. It is only later that I begin to feel the impact of the words or

behaviors when I am alone. I will then find myself sobbing uncontrollably, or

feeling intense anger or whatever emotion I was repressing at the time.

This evening I got 4 phone calls and 2 e-mails from my brother more or less

insinuating that he is very ill, near being brain dead and I must go to another

state to see him in 2 weeks.. While he is speaking to me, crying, saying things

I can't bear to hear (but, have heard so many times in the past I don't know

what is real or not real-like the story of the boy who cried wolf) I am just

listening, never saying a word. A few times during the conversation he would

say " are you there? " and I would say " yes " , but, somehow i didn't feel I was

there. I don't know how to handle these things and get off the phone as though

someone just phoned to say " merry christmas " and I didn't really receive that

call. I have done this most of my life and yet, I do feel, but, I'm afraid to

feel if that makes any sense. Right now I feel really twisted, confused, sad

and have no words for my brother. I know I wouldn't want to talk to someone

like me as I would feel

very disappointed in my no reaction attitude, but, I've fallen for these things

so many times with my nada and brother that I just turn off.

I remember many times after some drama in my life, a good friend of mine would

say " i can't believe your'e just sitting around like nothing happened " or nada

would scream at me " you're a cold bitch " if I didn't react the way she would

regarding anything with my brother. It's like sometimes I wish I had someone to

ask " how am I supposed to react? What am I supposed to say? " Am I really like

dead inside-nothing there or have i just been programmed to listen, never

respond or react because somehow whenever I did I always said or did the wrong

thing.

Anyway that is what dissociating means to me and I don't think I would have made

it this far in life without that tool.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 2:38:27 PM

Subject: re another flea; what is dissociating like for you?

Another flea would be dissociating. I learned recenltly that there

are several kinds of dissociating . I used to think that dissociating

meant completely blanking out and not being present.

I learned recenlty that dissociating can also just be coldness, cutting

yourself off emotionally from the world.

I am interested what dissociating is like for those KOs who experience

or have experienced it?

THanks.

Happy recovery

Your friend,

Walking to happiness

December 18, 2008

Lorliz - this is exactly what it is like for me. I turn off emotion - block

it. People think I'm being cold. I'm just protecting myself - could not

have survived childhood without that skill either.

Jen

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:39 PM, lorliz51@... wrote:

> Hi Walking to Happiness,

> Interesting you brought up dissociating as a flea. I have heard of

> dissociating as you said -blanking out and not being present. I'm not sure

> if the word is dissociating or disassociating, but, I kind of felt that is

> what I have used as a coping mechanism since I was a child. For me it

> wasn't completely blanking out and not being present-I mean I knew where I

> was and what was going on and I sort of blocked it out, zoned out, whatever

> you want to call it. I could not handle what was happening and so I just

> became parallyzed, frozen in fear and showed no emotion at all.

> I do that alot with my nada and my brother. I often feel horrible about it

> because I know I come off as being cold, apathetic and not caring, but, I'm

> afraid to ever reveal any emotions. I'm also afriad that I'm being sucked

> into another drama and I've invested so much of my emotional energy my whole

> life only to realize the next day it was like nothing happened.

> For me I tend to separate myself from the emotional part as itis too much

> for me at the time. It is only later that I begin to feel the impact of the

> words or behaviors when I am alone. I will then find myself sobbing

> uncontrollably, or feeling intense anger or whatever emotion I was

> repressing at the time.

> This evening I got 4 phone calls and 2 e-mails from my brother more or less

> insinuating that he is very ill, near being brain dead and I must go to

> another state to see him in 2 weeks.. While he is speaking to me, crying,

> saying things I can't bear to hear (but, have heard so many times in the

> past I don't know what is real or not real-like the story of the boy who

> cried wolf) I am just listening, never saying a word. A few times during

> the conversation he would say " are you there? " and I would say " yes " , but,

> somehow i didn't feel I was there. I don't know how to handle these things

> and get off the phone as though someone just phoned to say " merry christmas "

> and I didn't really receive that call. I have done this most of my life and

> yet, I do feel, but, I'm afraid to feel if that makes any sense. Right now

> I feel really twisted, confused, sad and have no words for my brother. I

> know I wouldn't want to talk to someone like me as I would feel

> very disappointed in my no reaction attitude, but, I've fallen for these

> things so many times with my nada and brother that I just turn off.

> I remember many times after some drama in my life, a good friend of mine

> would say " i can't believe your'e just sitting around like nothing happened "

> or nada would scream at me " you're a cold bitch " if I didn't react the way

> she would regarding anything with my brother. It's like sometimes I wish I

> had someone to ask " how am I supposed to react? What am I supposed to say?

> " Am I really like dead inside-nothing there or have i just been programmed

> to listen, never respond or react because somehow whenever I did I always

> said or did the wrong thing.

> Anyway that is what dissociating means to me and I don't think I would have

> made it this far in life without that tool.

>

December 18, 2008

To: Lorlitz and Jen,

I can really identify with this. When I'm with Nada, I present this

calm, unconcerned facade, although that's not the way I'm feeling

inside. I call it " being on automatic pilot " . I imagine force field

shields around me protecting me, but her rages are still frightening.

She hasn't hit me since I turned 18, but she is physically much bigger

than me and thus scary. On the rare occasions when she shows some

compassion, and goes to hug me,I wince when she touches me.

When I was a child, if I showed any sign of negative emotion, Nada

would say I was " emoting " . And she'd say it with such contempt. Funny,

I only noticed when I was a grown-up that SHE tended to get hysterical

and histrionic and blow things out of proportion. When you have a BPD

parent, you often CAN'T show emotion because there's just no room. All

the room is taken up with THEIR emotion. No wonder so many of us are

numb, and out of touch with our feelings. No wonder people think me

cold and frigid, and I don't like to be touched. That's the way we were

trained.

December 18, 2008

It's so comforting to know that there are other people who share the same

feelings and who understand about the many faces we have when dealing with our

foos. I always hated my stonefaced expression and never being able to show any

real emotion in front of my nada. I feel " cold " when I am around her and when

she is the " nice " nada I always wanted to be a affectionate, loving daughter,

but, I couldn't. I could NEVER let my guard down in front of her as I knew she

would turn on me (and that would make me vulnerable).. I remember one time over

two decades ago so vividly. I had been visiting my parents. I had to take my

father to his pulmonary doctor which meant getting a wheelchair in the car and

driving him. My nada didn't do any of this and didn't even see it as her

responsibility . According to nada I did everything for my father and nothing

for her.

That's another story. Anyway when I had gotten home from the doctor she was

raring to go on one of her rages. I don't even remember what it was about

except it went on for about 4 hours. The funny thing to me is I was an adult,in

my mid thirties, I had a car, and I could have just left and driven home. I

never knew (how f-cked up is that?) that I had that option. I just took her

ranting and raving (instead of thanking me for driving 2 hours to their home to

take my father to the doctor). My father and I would just sit and let her do

her " thing " while we remained silent. My father's motto was " don't rock the

boat-just let it roll off like water on a duck's back and don't let her get to

you " . Anyway at some point she wanted me out of the house by the next day and I

was told to never come back. I panicked as I always did as I had all of the

Christmas gifts for my relatives and family at her house since I lived 2 hours

away and they all

lived near my nada. So I'm upstairs at 2:00 a.m. wrapping Christmas gifts to

bring back home (I always found I did the wierdest things when I was all freaked

out after one of her tyrades-like nothing was wrong and I'm just casually gift

wrapping-i think i did those kind of things pretending everything was normal -i

needed to do ' " normal " things to bring me back to some normalcy. Suddenly I

hear her coming up the stairs and she comes in my room and starts screaming " is

that all you care about is Christmas gifts for people? You don't care about

anything i've said (I don't know what the f-ck she had been going on and on

about anyway). Her unexpected appearance makes me realize (after reading

Annie's and other's posts) about my strong startle reaction that is often very

embarassing to me. So she starts all over again (i had a 3 hour break from the

last episode). With that I hear my father (who was pretty ill and had just gone

on oxygen) at the

bottom of the stairs huffing and puffing with his oxygen tank asking " What's

going on up there? It's late, why don't you give it a rest and everyone get

some sleep " . Somehow she eventually left and I went to bed around 4:00 a.m.

Around 7:30 the next morning she crawls in bed next to me and tries to kiss me

like we are good old pals and she's making up. I know about the cringing-it was

so freaking wierd to me and my whole body tensed up and I just couldn't take her

mixed messages or her crazy behavior. My nada has tried over the years to be

affectionate (way too late as she waited until I was way into adulthood) and it

is so hard for her and much harder for me to accept her signs of affection or to

reciprocate. It feels so phony like she's acting, trying to behave in a way

someone might have in a movie she saw but her awkwardness at showing me any kind

of affection repulses me. I stiffen and make a joke as I don't want to hurt her

feelings

when she's trying, but, it just does not feel right. Unfortunately for me I

have a really hard time being the recipient of any touching or affectionate

gestures from anyone. The hardest thing when my father was dying and I just

wanted to hold his hand, hug him, say something soothing and get the words out

that I loved him and I couldn't do it. I managed to lightly touch his shoulder

and that was so hard for me and I'm crying now remembering that last evening

before he died-I couldn't even hold his hand or say " i love you " and I wanted to

so much. He really was the ONLY person who knew about the way nada treated me

since I was a very young child. My nada did not treat my brother that way and

to this day it's still the same. My brother has not lived near since he was 17

(he's 54) except for a horrible year and a half when he lived with her; yet, he

is the only one that ever cared for her, he would always make the holidays so

wonderful,he always

stood up for her, he was always so thoughtful and she just goes on and on. I

have even heard it from other relatives and yet I'm the one doing the grocery

shopping, i'm the one chauferring her around to doctor's appts, i'm the one who

has tried tomake holidays special for her (except for the past 7 years since she

has moved close to me) and I finally realized that no matter what I've ever

done, it's always the one time I didn't do something that is brought up. Funny

I have spent every Xmas eve & Xmas with her (except for one Xmas eve which we

spent with my partner's sister and her son, stayed over her house on the way

down to my parent's ) and she brings up the one Christmas eve I didn't spend

with her. I remember getting a big lecture from my Godmother that Christmas day

how much I hurt my nada. Imagine every single year of my life except one xmas

eve and one christmas day we invited a friend of my boyfriend's since it was

only my

boyfriend, my nada and myself and that bothered her and she just threw that up

to me as well. The last years I have resolved to not celebrate holidays and it

makes me so sad . I can't spend the holidays with anyone else-how could I dare

leave nada alone especially now that she's 85, and my boyfriend usually takes

the joy out of the holidays with his moods so as with many other things in life,

I just skip over them. I tried my entire relationship with him to make him

happy, to make my nada happy and i never thought about making me happy (noone

else did either! LOL!). so guess what? They both expect me to make miracles and

make the holiday happen and I don't really acknowledge it anymore. if I could

work on every holiday I would to get off the hook. Ironically I seem to get

some sort of nasty bug or flu on holidays psychosomatic, maybe? I'm really

rambling-sorry I just wanted to thank you for sharing and making me realize we

have become who we

are because we had to in order to survive.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:58:48 PM

Subject: Re: re another flea; what is dissociating like for

you?