For you new members who have small children

[Guest guest]

Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have children and

who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd mothers (also

referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's grandkids.)

Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse inflicted by

bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on end, and

your blood boil with anger.

Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

about how the nada will treat one child well, while the sibling will

be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of how her two

year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was coming for

a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling, " Get away

from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending time with

grandnada.

Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with overly lavish

presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against their own

parents.

The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to attack and

hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at their own

daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause permanent

injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder, is *far*

too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

Please protect your children from your mother, you are probably their

only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by a crazy

person.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Very good post. In my case, nada is just so good at manipulating the

minds of everyone she is around. She knows better than to ever hurt

my kids physically!! But what about the letter she sent my daughter

talking about how busy I was homeschooling her that I just couldn't

call nada. What do these things do to the minds of children? Or what

about the need to constantly talk about inappropriate things in front

of children? I could go on and on.

le

>

> Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have children and

> who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd mothers (also

> referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's grandkids.)

>

> Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse inflicted by

> bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on end, and

> your blood boil with anger.

>

> Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> about how the nada will treat one child well, while the sibling will

> be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of how her two

> year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was coming for

> a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling, " Get away

> from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending time with

> grandnada.

>

> Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with overly lavish

> presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against their own

> parents.

>

> The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to attack and

> hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at their own

> daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause permanent

> injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

>

> So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder, is *far*

> too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> Please protect your children from your mother, you are probably their

> only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by a crazy

> person.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly! You recognized the danger that your children were in from

emotional abuse by nada: mind games, insults, name-calling, lies,

bribes, blatant favoritism, non-stop criticism, domineering behaviors,

which can leave deeper scars that are harder to recover from than

physical ones.

These people are dangerously mentally ill. Some extreme analogies

that get the point across: its like putting a small child alone in a

room with a rabid dog, or a wild tiger, or a child molester.

Low Contact is fine if a bpd will comply with boundaries, but when

they aggressively and repeatedly violate boundaries, then its time for

No Contact. Your nada does sound particularly energetic and aggressive

about having her own way. Mine is that way sometimes; she has that

rather arrogant " sense of entitlement " that seems to be more of a

narcissist trait. When my Sister gives our nada boundaries, our nada

will get her hackles up and violate the boundaries with great gusto,

as if to say, " Eff you, you can't tell ME what to do, you little

pissant! " Well, surprise, nada: for the first time in our lives,

Sister and I actually *are* telling you what to do, and you can play

nice or go home. Sister and I are both in No Contact with nada until

nada apologizes.

Its been the most blissfully quiet six months I can ever remember!

Kudos to you for protecting your children from overwhelming,

domineering, oppressive nada!

-Annie

> >

> > Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have children and

> > who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd mothers (also

> > referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's grandkids.)

> >

> > Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse inflicted by

> > bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on end, and

> > your blood boil with anger.

> >

> > Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> > about how the nada will treat one child well, while the sibling will

> > be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of how her two

> > year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was coming for

> > a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling, " Get away

> > from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending time with

> > grandnada.

> >

> > Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with overly lavish

> > presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against their own

> > parents.

> >

> > The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to attack and

> > hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at their own

> > daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause permanent

> > injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

> >

> > So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> > narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder, is *far*

> > too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> > Please protect your children from your mother, you are probably their

> > only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by a crazy

> > person.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I disagree with the last post...I think we all have to keep in mind

that each case is different, and over-generalizing all bpd mothers

based on your own, or another members experience, is a bad idea. The

severity of one case (including the horror stories of emotional and

physical abuse on young children by their bpd grandmothers) can be

must worse than others, and you have no way of telling whether a bpd

grandmother should be allowed around her grandchildren, regardless of

your own experience with your own nada, because you do not personally

know that person or the severity of their case. My mother, for

instance, is great with kids, and always has been (Other than with me

as a child). She has made a great deal of progress since my

childhood, and is not at all abusive to my 11 year old brother, and I

know she wouldn't be abusive to my own son. Her BPD symptoms aren't

as severe as others...She just tends to act immaturely in her own

love life and selfishly when it comes to the stability of my

brothers' lives. The issues I have with her now have to do with her

teenage-like drama in her love life and impulsive decisions, which

she asks for support with, and then when everything falls apart,

sympathy. I stress that her behavior is not abusive toward her

children, just selfish, and the situation is much too complicated for

anyone to judge who is not living it. However, this does not mean

she will be a bad grandmother...In fact I predict she will be a

wonderful grandmother. This is what makes it so complicated. Yes, I

am lucky that her symptoms aren't nearly as severe as many of the

people whom are spoken about in this group. Which is why over-

generalizing and telling new members that their mothers are too

mentally ill or unstable to be trusted around their children is

unfounded. Only they can make that judgment, not you. We are all

here to support eachother, not pressure eachother to make very

important decisions based on a wide range of experiences that may not

even closely match their own.

>

> Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have children and

> who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd mothers

(also

> referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's grandkids.)

>

> Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse inflicted by

> bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on end, and

> your blood boil with anger.

>

> Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> about how the nada will treat one child well, while the sibling will

> be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of how her

two

> year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was coming

for

> a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling, " Get away

> from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending time with

> grandnada.

>

> Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with overly lavish

> presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against their own

> parents.

>

> The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to attack and

> hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at their own

> daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause

permanent

> injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

>

> So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder, is

*far*

> too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> Please protect your children from your mother, you are probably

their

> only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by a crazy

> person.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

If you mother doesn't display most of the classic bpd behaviors that

make bpds (and other Cluster B personality disordered individuals)

dangerous to small children, then you are very, very lucky!

If your mother doesn't have the lightning-fast mood swings, doesn't

display inappropriate anger, doesn't have minor, transient breaks with

reality, doesn't split her children or grand-kids either " all good " or

" all bad " , doesn't use passive-aggressive behaviors when thwarted,

etc., etc., then, that's wonderful and I'm very happy for you.

My advice was for those whose nada or fada do display those hallmark

bpd behaviors, and who have small children that can easily be

traumatized or injured by mentally and emotionally unstable behaviors.

Certainly, its up to each individual to figure out what kind of

behaviors their bpd parent(s) are exhibiting or likely to exhibit,

and determine what is in the best interest of their own children, I

agree, definitely.

-Annie

> >

> > Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have children and

> > who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd mothers

> (also

> > referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's grandkids.)

> >

> > Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse inflicted by

> > bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on end, and

> > your blood boil with anger.

> >

> > Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> > about how the nada will treat one child well, while the sibling will

> > be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of how her

> two

> > year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was coming

> for

> > a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling, " Get away

> > from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending time with

> > grandnada.

> >

> > Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with overly lavish

> > presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against their own

> > parents.

> >

> > The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to attack and

> > hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at their own

> > daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause

> permanent

> > injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

> >

> > So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> > narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder, is

> *far*

> > too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> > Please protect your children from your mother, you are probably

> their

> > only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by a crazy

> > person.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, you give such wonderful advice and support here!

I think the point being made, though, was that this is a support group -- and

your post on this topic fell perhaps more under the category of unsolicited

advice to all the members here who have kids.

It's hard to understand how sensitive a topic this can be if you haven't walked

in these shoes and been a parent yourself, having to balance your children's

emotional needs (and THEIR relationships with their grandparents) with your own

relationships with your nada or fada.

It's tricky -- and not a one-size-fits-situation by any means!

No worries, though! I know your intentions -- as always -- were good.

Best,

S

Re: For you new members who have small children

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> If you mother doesn't display most of the classic bpd behaviors that

> make bpds (and other Cluster B personality disordered individuals)

> dangerous to small children, then you are very, very lucky!

>

> If your mother doesn't have the lightning-fast mood swings, doesn't

> display inappropriate anger, doesn't have minor, transient

> breaks with

> reality, doesn't split her children or grand-kids either " all

> good " or

> " all bad " , doesn't use passive-aggressive behaviors when thwarted,

> etc., etc., then, that's wonderful and I'm very happy for you.

>

> My advice was for those whose nada or fada do display those hallmark

> bpd behaviors, and who have small children that can easily be

> traumatized or injured by mentally and emotionally unstable behaviors.

>

> Certainly, its up to each individual to figure out what kind of

> behaviors their bpd parent(s) are exhibiting or likely to

> exhibit,

> and determine what is in the best interest of their own

> children, I

> agree, definitely.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have

> children and

> > > who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd

> mothers

> > (also

> > > referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's

> grandkids.)> >

> > > Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse

> inflicted by

> > > bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on

> end, and

> > > your blood boil with anger.

> > >

> > > Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> > > about how the nada will treat one child well, while the

> sibling will

> > > be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of

> how her

> > two

> > > year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was

> coming

> > for

> > > a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling,

> " Get away

> > > from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending

> time with

> > > grandnada.

> > >

> > > Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with

> overly lavish

> > > presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against

> their own

> > > parents.

> > >

> > > The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to

> attack and

> > > hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at

> their own

> > > daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause

> > permanent

> > > injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

> > >

> > > So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> > > narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder,

> is

> > *far*

> > > too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> > > Please protect your children from your mother, you are

> probably

> > their

> > > only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by

> a crazy

> > > person.

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I actually agree with ALL of these posts. For what it is worth...I thought

nada would be different with my kids...and she was at first, but when she

fell back into her old routines she did eventually turn on my kids...which

is devastating...and for whatever reason, it caught me by surprise.

I agree that advice is not a one size fits all...i agree with that

completely....but unfortunately it took my kids getting hurt before i put a

plan in motion to protect my kids. It was almost as if they had to be hit

by the car before they were taught to look both ways before crossing the

street.

I wish i had the advice to protect my kids before they got hurt as opposed

to after...I wish i prevented the hurt, but i didn't. But that is my

situation...and just because nada flipped on me of course doesn't mean that

all of them flip. I would just say to proceed with caution with all nada's

(which i think most people inheritantly do)....unfortunately, reading the

posts here, there seems to be a trend that most DO flip and the bad behavior

resurfaces in some form or another.

> Annie, you give such wonderful advice and support here!

>

> I think the point being made, though, was that this is a support group --

> and your post on this topic fell perhaps more under the category of

> unsolicited advice to all the members here who have kids.

>

> It's hard to understand how sensitive a topic this can be if you haven't

> walked in these shoes and been a parent yourself, having to balance your

> children's emotional needs (and THEIR relationships with their grandparents)

> with your own relationships with your nada or fada.

>

> It's tricky -- and not a one-size-fits-situation by any means!

>

> No worries, though! I know your intentions -- as always -- were good.

>

> Best,

>

> S

>

>

> Re: For you new members who have small

> children

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> > If you mother doesn't display most of the classic bpd behaviors that

> > make bpds (and other Cluster B personality disordered individuals)

> > dangerous to small children, then you are very, very lucky!

> >

> > If your mother doesn't have the lightning-fast mood swings, doesn't

> > display inappropriate anger, doesn't have minor, transient

> > breaks with

> > reality, doesn't split her children or grand-kids either " all

> > good " or

> > " all bad " , doesn't use passive-aggressive behaviors when thwarted,

> > etc., etc., then, that's wonderful and I'm very happy for you.

> >

> > My advice was for those whose nada or fada do display those hallmark

> > bpd behaviors, and who have small children that can easily be

> > traumatized or injured by mentally and emotionally unstable behaviors.

> >

> > Certainly, its up to each individual to figure out what kind of

> > behaviors their bpd parent(s) are exhibiting or likely to

> > exhibit,

> > and determine what is in the best interest of their own

> > children, I

> > agree, definitely.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have

> > children and

> > > > who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd

> > mothers

> > > (also

> > > > referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's

> > grandkids.)> >

> > > > Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse

> > inflicted by

> > > > bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on

> > end, and

> > > > your blood boil with anger.

> > > >

> > > > Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> > > > about how the nada will treat one child well, while the

> > sibling will

> > > > be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of

> > how her

> > > two

> > > > year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was

> > coming

> > > for

> > > > a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling,

> > " Get away

> > > > from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending

> > time with

> > > > grandnada.

> > > >

> > > > Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with

> > overly lavish

> > > > presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against

> > their own

> > > > parents.

> > > >

> > > > The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to

> > attack and

> > > > hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at

> > their own

> > > > daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause

> > > permanent

> > > > injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

> > > >

> > > > So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> > > > narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder,

> > is

> > > *far*

> > > > too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> > > > Please protect your children from your mother, you are

> > probably

> > > their

> > > > only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by

> > a crazy

> > > > person.

> > > >

> > > > -Annie

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

You're right, its more relevant and useful to relate one's own

personal experiences than to give blanket, one-size-fits-all advice.

Point taken.

I just hope that new members who are wondering about / confused about

whether to allow their bpd parents to be alone with their kids (or

not) will take the time to go back and read earlier posts from members

who *do* have small children, and what happened when the small

children were allowed contact with bpd grandmother.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have

> > children and

> > > > who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd

> > mothers

> > > (also

> > > > referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's

> > grandkids.)> >

> > > > Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse

> > inflicted by

> > > > bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on

> > end, and

> > > > your blood boil with anger.

> > > >

> > > > Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> > > > about how the nada will treat one child well, while the

> > sibling will

> > > > be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of

> > how her

> > > two

> > > > year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was

> > coming

> > > for

> > > > a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling,

> > " Get away

> > > > from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending

> > time with

> > > > grandnada.

> > > >

> > > > Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with

> > overly lavish

> > > > presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against

> > their own

> > > > parents.

> > > >

> > > > The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to

> > attack and

> > > > hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at

> > their own

> > > > daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause

> > > permanent

> > > > injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

> > > >

> > > > So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> > > > narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder,

> > is

> > > *far*

> > > > too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> > > > Please protect your children from your mother, you are

> > probably

> > > their

> > > > only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by

> > a crazy

> > > > person.

> > > >

> > > > -Annie

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it is wonderful if your nada has been good with the kids, I just think

that those of

us who were caught off guard by how awful nada can be when given the right set

of

circumstances would just caution you to be on your guard with your nada when she

is with

your kids.

My nada took care of my oldest child for a couple years during the day before

she became

more unstable toward me. I think for the most part she was ok but now that she

has

turned on me since I started separating myself from her, I always think of

little things she

may have done that I will never know for sure. As my son got older, we would

have to de-

program him after being at nadas. We would also have to untangle ourselves from

her web

with every visit. She just always wanted more of our time and attention,

despite already

having a lot. She started to always want him to come to her house instead of

watching him

at our house where he would be able to go to sleep in his bed. We would have to

carry

him home in the middle of the night. All of it seemed harmless but they were

little

manipulations that she could keep under the radar.

Then she turned on me when I decided I wanted some space. She threatened

suicide and

at events where we were forced to be around her like funerals, she would

actually take one

of the kids aside and pump them for information about their event schedules the

moment

we weren't looking. She even told my 5 year old that she was going to come and

steel him

away sometime. He always was fine going to bed until after that - now the

mention of

bed freaks him out. He is afraid nada will come and steel him away in the

night.

Little did I know all these years that hiding right under the surface was

straight up crazy

nada.

My brother knows all this but choses to see them more regularly. He doesn't

leave his kids

with her ever though.

Your situation may be different, I just think those of us that were taken in by

our nada

want to spare others the pain. It is one thing to have to deal with your own

ramifications

but it is a whole new level of feelings that come up when nada starts using your

kids to

meet her own insatiable needs. Just a buyer beware disclaimer.

patinage

> > > > >

> > > > > Welcome. You'll find lots of members here who also have

> > > children and

> > > > > who have posted real horror stories about what their bpd

> > > mothers

> > > > (also

> > > > > referred to as " nada " s) have done to their kids (nada's

> > > grandkids.)> >

> > > > > Incident after incident of physical and emotional abuse

> > > inflicted by

> > > > > bpds against helpless children will make your hair stand on

> > > end, and

> > > > > your blood boil with anger.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even if your bpd mother is not overtly violent, there are stories

> > > > > about how the nada will treat one child well, while the

> > > sibling will

> > > > > be locked alone in a room all day. Another poster told of

> > > how her

> > > > two

> > > > > year old would scream and recoil when told " grandnada " was

> > > coming

> > > > for

> > > > > a visit. Another small child began acting out, yelling,

> > > " Get away

> > > > > from me, you're not supposed to be here! " after spending

> > > time with

> > > > > grandnada.

> > > > >

> > > > > Other grandnadas try to " buy " their grandchildren with

> > > overly lavish

> > > > > presents in an attempt to turn their grandchildren against

> > > their own

> > > > > parents.

> > > > >

> > > > > The creepiest nadas use passive-aggressive techniques to

> > > attack and

> > > > > hurt their grandchildren when they are actually angry at

> > > their own

> > > > > daughter. These are the nadas that can " accidentally " cause

> > > > permanent

> > > > > injury or death to their helpless grandkids.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, please keep in mind that your own mother, if she has bpd or

> > > > > narcissism pd or any other " Cluster B " personality disorder,

> > > is

> > > > *far*

> > > > > too unstable and mentally ill to be trusted around small children.

> > > > > Please protect your children from your mother, you are

> > > probably

> > > > their

> > > > > only line of defense against emotional and physical abuse by

> > > a crazy

> > > > > person.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Annie

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >