Re: Question - how many people here have stood up directly to nadas & howd it go?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Interesting question and I'm looking forward to reading other's experiences. 

For me I was never aware of my own needs and really felt I was not allowed to

have any needs.  I also guess that for most of my life I was afraide to speak up

and express a " need " as I never felt my needs were as important as my nada's and

my brother's needs.  In recent years when I did try to express a need to my nada

who lives 20 minutes from me (nada lived 2 hours away up until the past 7 1/2

years) it is always met with mocking, sarcasm or total disregard like I never

said anything.  An example is I am off from work on Sundays & Mondays.  I

finally got it through to my nada that Sundays I am usually tired and I need

that day.  The only reason that she got that and respected that was because she

was already planning Monday, my other day off.  The first year that nada lived

closer to me I spent every Monday with her.  I started resenting that it was

just expected and

found my life was work, one day off to catch up on chores, laundrey, etc. and

the other day was entertaining nada.  When I try to say I need another day for

myself her response is " you always say that " or she repeats what I say in a

mocking way .  She will then go on and on about every other woman who works and

have wonderful careers (according to Nada my job isn't a real job), take care of

their children (I don't have any) and manage to do a million things and spend

time with their mothers, but, I can't do anything.  It had gotten to the point

where I began having upset stomachs, migraine headaches every Sunday knowing I

have to go through her calls about what we can do together on Monday. I admit I

have used " illnesses " rather than be direct and then she would ask " are you

going to work on

Tuesday? " I have actually stayed home on Tuesdays quite a few times I think to

justify the fact that I am really sick-see Mom, I didn't go to work on Tuesday. 

I started realizing how crazy my behavior was getting just to have my days off

to myself.  Today it started about tomorow already.  If I have laundrey to do

her response is " why can't my partner do the laundrey? " If I say I have

something work related to do her response is " you're ridiculous doing that for

that job where you don't make any money, they could care less about you and how

she could understand if I had a good job, but, not for what you do), if I say I

want to write Christmas cards she will say again " why can't my partner write the

cards-she knows plenty of men who do that). If I say I want to clean out my

closet and take care of some things for myself her response is " that's all you

ever do and it certainly never looks like you do anything for yourself-your

hair, your clothes, your

nails are always a mess " .  I finally said I'm not spending every Monday with

you and then it's the " I don't know how long I'll be around and you'll feel bad

when you couldn't spend time with me when I was alive " .  The only thing that has

gotten better for me is I don't buy into the guilt like I used to and I realize

that even if I spent every Sunday & Monday with her it would never be enough.

Nothing is ever enough.

As for setting limits that has never gone over too well.  Whenever I try I get

the " oh, really?  Well I should have done that to you and your friends (she goes

back 40 years all of the time! LOL) and she will bring up every case scenario

where she should have set limits with me and then she starts on my father, and

anyone else who she has felt has done her wrong her entire life.  Another

response I get everytime I make a small attempt at setting a limit I get it

thrown back " would you say that to so and so " (anyone who I have a relationship

or friendship with) and the limit or need I expressed will be thrown back at me

from now until eternity. 

I remember one time about 12 years ago, right after my cousin's father had died

(my cousin helped me when my father died) I had gone to my mother's and stated

very firmly that I was there for my cousin, not her.  It didn't mean I wouldn't

stay at her house or spend time with her, but, I wanted to be there for my

cousin like she had been for me if she needed me.  To this day i still have that

thrown in my face.  At the time my cousin spent time with her own family &

friends so I really wasn't needed and my nada loves to remind me of that.  That

was probably the first time I really stated something firmly right in the

beginning so the purpose of my visit would not be misunderstood and quite

frankly, I wish I hadn't as I have heard it so many times in the past 12 years.

With my nada, I find trying to express my needs or attempting to set

limits/boundaries is alot of work and the repercussions will haunt me the rest

of my life as she will always throw it back in my face.  I have expereinced the

same with my brother and hoping his reactions are fleas and not bpd. I will not

give up and I try to stand firm in what I say as otherwise i will be walked all

over as I have always been by my mother and brother.

It's funny to me as therapists have told me over the years about setting

boundaries and limits and I would just roll my eyes and say you just don't

understand....and they never did.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 3:35:30 PM

Subject: Question - how many people here have stood up

directly to nadas & howd it go?

Hi there

Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in life in

general.

I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in writing with

their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or that

wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I handle

things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me thinking

about why that was.

I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how they did

that and how did it go?

I know people have different situations and some are very dangerous

etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some feedback

about my approaches and some different perspectives.

Thanks!

Grace

[Guest guest]

setting boundaries sucks. especially directly. first off, if you

say, " mom, i said NO, " then you have to deal with her not getting it

or making fun of you and saying how prissy you're being. finally when

you've had it and say, " I F---ING SAID NO! " she gets her feelings hurt

and tries to manipulate other people into being mad at you (canceling

already-planned family get-togethers and telling your little sisters

that's she's just...too tired to deal with any of us for a while).

then when you cc everyone on the thread where she has completely and

utterly disregarded your boundaries until you were completely backed

into a corner and your only two options are to cave or shout at her,

you get a scathing email about how selfish you are and you only spend

time with her when you " want something " from her, which is

particularly bizarre, considering you can't remember the last time she

actually did anything for you.

then she calls like everything is fine and says that she's sooo proud

of you. when you say, " well...mom, you might say that, but you don't

ACT proud of me, " she gets mad again and wants to shout at you about

how you never let her go out with her boyfriends when you were in

middle school (wtf....). then you tell her she needs therapy and you

hang up and don't answer the phone from her for two weeks.

then she finally leaves a message about wanting to go to therapy, so

you call her back, but she really just wants to talk about how

everything is really your fault, even though this shit started when

you were 10 and she's insane. so you hang up again and don't answer

when she calls back, even though she leaves three messages. you end

up unplugging the phone.

you show up at your little sister's birthday party, which mom has

planned, but assumed you weren't going to (even left a message on your

machine, " i planned this party and you're invited...but...SIGH...you

have to do what you feel is right for you...SIGH " ), and she sits as

far away from you as possible and when she does make eye-contact, it's

this horrible " i can't believe she's here " face she's making. and

then everyone there is happy to see you and this pisses her off even

more. she can't tell everyone that you're insane or that you're

emotional because there you are interacting with the family and she's

the one in the corner.

so now you just see her maybe once every two months and there is no

real relationship but she doesn't ask anything of you and you don't

offer anything to her.

and then you think to yourself, this is a really stupid way to live.

she's an adult. she doesn't have to make everything so hard. and

then you find that you really don't ever want to deal with her again,

which is sad, because she honestly has some good qualities, but the

good does not outweigh the bad. it's freaking lame.

even if she is out of your life for the most part, there's still this

stressful paranoia that someday she really is going to lose it and

come stalk you, or that she will try to call your friends and get to

you that way. you spend most of your time keeping your true self safe

and concealed, and you eventually become terrified of other people.

you don't know who is going to flip on you and who really cares, and

since you don't have any practice making boundaries with people, you

don't even know when other people have gone too far. you just know

you're angry for no apparent reason. and then when you really care

about someone, you are either a leach and can't back off, or you're so

paranoid of being seen as a leach that you don't even acknowledge that

you care at all.

gah.

bink

>

> Hi there

>

> Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in life in

> general.

>

> I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in writing with

> their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or that

> wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I handle

> things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me thinking

> about why that was.

>

> I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

> directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how they did

> that and how did it go?

>

> I know people have different situations and some are very dangerous

> etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some feedback

> about my approaches and some different perspectives.

>

> Thanks!

> Grace

>

[Guest guest]

The first time I remember consciously standing up to nada was at about

age 14 or 15, when she was beating me with the belt, and I just stood

there and took it without reacting. I was so angry, I felt nada's not

believing me and punishing me was totally unjustified; I figure I must

have dissociated. All I know is I didn't feel it, I'd turned into

stone with anger.) I finally turned around and asked her, " Are you

finished? " in a cold voice, and she looked stunned. She never hit me

with the belt after that.

The second time, I had flown in and driven up for a visit the evening

before, and slept in the following morning because the trip is

exhausting and the time difference is 3 hours. When I got up it was

about 9:30 AM. Nada had made breakfast for herself and dad at around

8AM and had cleaned up the kitchen. I started to make myself breakfast

and nada began criticizing me for sleeping in, calling me lazy, and

other mean things, repeating that she had already made breakfast and

the kitchen was clean. I replied, several times, " Don't worry, I'll

clean up after myself. " But she just kept up the steady stream of

criticism. " You're so thoughtless, you could have gotten up hours ago,

etc. etc. " I am not a morning person. I finally, for the first time,

reached out and took her face/lower jaw in one hand firmly, and turned

her face to me, looked her in the eyes and repeated very slowly (but

with, I admit, controlled anger) " I. Said. I. Would. Clean. Up. After.

Myself.... Do. You. Understand. Me? " I saw fear in her eyes, and she

jerked her head out of my grasp and left the kitchen. She did not

speak of it afterward, as though it hadn't happened.

The third time was fairly recently, after she tried to grab the

steering wheel from me when I was driving her around to do her

errands. My " vacation " with nada usually consists of being her

chauffeur/servant, and driving her around to shop and visit her

friends and our relatives. However, she was always nervous with me

driving even though I am a very safe driver and have never had an

accident. Still, she was convinced that cars were about to hit us and

would shriek in terror, startle and throw her hands up, etc., but

when she tried to grab the steering wheel, I finally had enough.

That about gave me a heart attack. I pulled over and just yelled at

her, quaking with nerves and anger, hollered, " STOP IT! I AM A VERY

GOOD DRIVER, BUT YOU ARE GOING TO *MAKE* ME HAVE AN ACCIDENT IF YOU

DON'T STOP DOING THAT! THE NEXT TIME YOU SCREAM OR TRY TO GRAB THE

STEERING WHEEL YOU ARE GOING TO BE DROPPED OFF AT THE NEAREST GAS

STATION, DO YOU HEAR ME? I DON'T CARE HOW YOU GET HOME, BUT YOU'RE NOT

GOING TO BE IN THE CAR WITH ME! "

My own ears were ringing with the volume of my voice!

Of course, nada broke down in copious tears, boo hooed all the way

home, and gave me the silent treatment for the rest of the day. The

following day, it was as though nothing happened, and she was a little

gray-haired angel in the car. I was still riled because there was no

apology from nada, but nada had apparently forgotten the whole thing.

I always found that creepy, the way she could just... dismiss things

that upset her. Weird.

-Annie

>

> Hi there

>

> Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in life in

> general.

>

> I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in writing with

> their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or that

> wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I handle

> things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me thinking

> about why that was.

>

> I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

> directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how they did

> that and how did it go?

>

> I know people have different situations and some are very dangerous

> etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some feedback

> about my approaches and some different perspectives.

>

> Thanks!

> Grace

>

[Guest guest]

What's that phrase " reap the whirlwind " ? While I have occasionally

stood up to my nada, sometimes over very big things, the results are

usually a huge emotional showdown and little gained for the effort.

Sometimes there might be temporary change that backslides later.

Also even the smallest most reasonable boundaries are resented for

years with that stored up anger ready to be poured on me when the

rare argument happens.

I've found the following to actually work....

- Habit - create routine and habit, for years I screened calls and

she finally gave up being the call initiator, so now I call her when

I feel ready and more centered in myself. I also work with habit in

terms of frequency of calling/visiting working with incremental

changes that build up over time. I knew someone who actually

incrementally went NC with her family over a period of *years* but it

worked. She called it " weaning " them off of her.

- External limits - this one is pretty passive-aggressive, but

blaming why I can't/won't do certain things because of work, airline

prices, terrorists (yes, really used that) sometimes gets around her

taking it personally and becoming triggered.

A direct confrontation can work, but I find it extremely costly to me

emotionally at the time I do it and over a long extended period of

time afterward too. Still I do think it's one of the true ways to

really take back your power which is important. Still psychological

safety and well-being have to come first though, however you can get

it.

>

> Hi there

>

> Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in

life in

> general.

>

> I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in writing

with

> their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or

that

> wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I

handle

> things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me thinking

> about why that was.

>

> I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

> directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how they

did

> that and how did it go?

>

> I know people have different situations and some are very dangerous

> etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some

feedback

> about my approaches and some different perspectives.

>

> Thanks!

> Grace

>

[Guest guest]

Grace,

My nada responds very poorly to any boundaries or limits I have ever

attempted to set. She reminds me of a rebellious preschooler who has

never been parented properly. As soon I call her and try to confront

her about anything, she hangs up on me. There is always an excuse for

her behavior--I either misundertood, was too sensitive, won't let her

be herself, etc. If limits worked with her, I wouldn't be NC at the

moment. Her behavior in her marriage is the same. I've talked to

dishrag fada about it and he chooses to let her go her way for fear of

her fits. I am the only person who is currently standing up to

her--therefor I am the blacksheep. The things she is saying about me

through the extended family are super vicious. I've even heard that I

don't talk to her because I'm jealous that my daughter likes her.

It's just amazing. She will not face reality or her problems and she

certainly won't follow any boundaries. Boundaries are simply a

challenge to her.

I tried at one point only talking to her weekly instead of daily and

the weekly conversations were always filled with nastiness and her

picking a fight because I wouldn't call more often. She must have her

own way--so be it!!

le

>

> Hi there

>

> Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in life in

> general.

>

> I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in writing with

> their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or that

> wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I handle

> things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me thinking

> about why that was.

>

> I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

> directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how they did

> that and how did it go?

>

> I know people have different situations and some are very dangerous

> etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some feedback

> about my approaches and some different perspectives.

>

> Thanks!

> Grace

>

[Guest guest]

I forgot to add...

She hates it. She still tries to weasel her way into my business and

pry into matters that are none of her business, but I keep my

boundaires and do not allow her access. She still plays the victim

periodically and alternates with evil witch, (I'll always be an

ungrateful child -- " all I've done for you...blah, blah, blah.. " ) but

it has become less frequent. I am an only child and some how it has

gotten through that she has two choices:

1) play by my rules.

2) lose all contact with her daughter.

I don't ever expect her to ever accept any of this, but I am in

control and I am more confident, so she cannot beat me down the way

she used to.

Abby D.

> >

> > Hi there

> >

> > Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> > indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in

> life in

> > general.

> >

> > I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in

writing

> with

> > their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or

> that

> > wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I

> handle

> > things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me

thinking

> > about why that was.

> >

> > I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

> > directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how

they

> did

> > that and how did it go?

> >

> > I know people have different situations and some are very

dangerous

> > etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some

> feedback

> > about my approaches and some different perspectives.

> >

> > Thanks!

> > Grace

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with this. I've set boundaries and the same results -

temporary change but it comes back to bite me harder down the road.

Learning to set boundaries has been wonderful for the rest of my life

but they don't work with bpds in my experience. Thanks for sharing

your habits, etc. That's very interesting. Regarding your passive

aggressive comment - my T actually said with going nc with my nada

passive aggressive is ok because with a bpd they are so likely to

drag it out and make it a huge thing. It's the one time she said not

to be direct. She said to do just what you suggest - screen calls,

gradually less contact, etc.

> >

> > Hi there

> >

> > Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> > indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in

> life in

> > general.

> >

> > I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in

writing

> with

> > their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that, or

> that

> > wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how I

> handle

> > things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me

thinking

> > about why that was.

> >

> > I just had a general question for everyone here - how many people

> > directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how

they

> did

> > that and how did it go?

> >

> > I know people have different situations and some are very

dangerous

> > etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some

> feedback

> > about my approaches and some different perspectives.

> >

> > Thanks!

> > Grace

> >

>

[Guest guest]

hello

i am new to the group but have found a (chilling!) similarity in this

thread with some of my own experiences. like many in the group i have

found significant problems with boundaries and my bpd mother. she

would drop by, all the time, three four sometimes five times a week.

and then stay and stay and stay. my husband and i finally mustered

the courage to ask her to phone before dropping in, just to check

that it was convenient for us. well! stormy tantrums, bitter emails,

sobbing phone calls, cruel and twisted accusations that my husband

was trying to come between her and me and the grandchildren...a year

of very haughty standoffishness, nose cut off to spite her face,

before things returned to a civilised state and a now much more

superficial but happier (for us!) relationship wiht her. and lucky

for us she continues to respect thouse boundaries. but what a price

to pay! i'm lucky that i have a very supportive, strong and

understanding husband. i couldn't do it without him. my mother's

third husband very confidently stated to us early on in their brief

marriage that the problem with her was that no-one had stood up to

her...wrong. they had, many previuos boyfriends, husbands, fiends,

family members etc, and they all paid the price through being

demonised, cast aside and detested forever more. standing up to a bpd

is a risky business, and i think it only worked for us becasue we are

one of the very few functional relationships she has left in the

world, and she knows she needs to be careful not to destroy it as

well. i really like this thread's ideas of softly slowly changing

habits, and might try it next time.

now to negotiate christmas with a bpd who hates everybody...

thanks for listening

bernadette

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " fl0g1rl "

wrote:

>

> I agree with this. I've set boundaries and the same results -

> temporary change but it comes back to bite me harder down the road.

> Learning to set boundaries has been wonderful for the rest of my

life

> but they don't work with bpds in my experience. Thanks for sharing

> your habits, etc. That's very interesting. Regarding your passive

> aggressive comment - my T actually said with going nc with my nada

> passive aggressive is ok because with a bpd they are so likely to

> drag it out and make it a huge thing. It's the one time she said

not

> to be direct. She said to do just what you suggest - screen calls,

> gradually less contact, etc.

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi there

> > >

> > > Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> > > indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and in

> > life in

> > > general.

> > >

> > > I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in

> writing

> > with

> > > their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do that,

or

> > that

> > > wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about how

I

> > handle

> > > things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me

> thinking

> > > about why that was.

> > >

> > > I just had a general question for everyone here - how many

people

> > > directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how

> they

> > did

> > > that and how did it go?

> > >

> > > I know people have different situations and some are very

> dangerous

> > > etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some

> > feedback

> > > about my approaches and some different perspectives.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > > Grace

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

At 04:42 PM 12/15/2008 abby_doo wrote:

>I personally think that directly expressing your wishes, needs

>or boundaries to a BPD is a waste of breath because they don't

>get it. They will never change, so we have to. Don't bother

>telling her what you want. Change how you behave. When you

>change what you do, the rules of the game change. Think of it

>as a dance. You're used to dancing the crazy two-step with her.

>Change it up. You no longer two- step, you now hip hop.

This is my experience as well. Telling my nada things is a waste

of time. She either ignores what I say or gets angry about it. I

have trained her to some extent. I can't control what she does,

but I can control the way I react. If she calls outside of

reasonable calling hours I either don't answer or I make it

clear that I was asleep and am not going to discuss anything

that isn't an emergency with her. If she insists on bad-mouthing

my sister or other people when I am talking to her I say " I'm

not going to discuss that with you " and leave or hang up the

phone if she persists. If she " needs " my help with her so-called

emergencies that are usually brought on by her failure to act

sensibly, I help when it is convenient for me. I refuse to drop

everything and come running unless she has a real emergency that

I don't think she can deal with herself. As she has seen that

her nasty manipulative behavior and outrageous actions don't get

the results she wants, she has started playing by my rules more

of the time.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

---

I agree. Talking to these people is a waste of time. Actions speak

louder and more clearly than words. They may not understand it, but

they can sometimes be trained to play by new rules. I never would

have believed this, had I not experienced it myself with Nada.

I don't see the point of arguing with her at all, although I will

occasionally respond calmly with " that's not an appropriate thing to

say to someone " when she says something to me like how much she

regrets having had children. But I rarely talk to her - her phone

calls tend to be rants and I refuse most of them. Her infrequent

visits are now according to my rules.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , Katrina wrote:

>

> At 04:42 PM 12/15/2008 abby_doo wrote:

> >I personally think that directly expressing your wishes, needs

> >or boundaries to a BPD is a waste of breath because they don't

> >get it. They will never change, so we have to. Don't bother

> >telling her what you want. Change how you behave. When you

> >change what you do, the rules of the game change. Think of it

> >as a dance. You're used to dancing the crazy two-step with her.

> >Change it up. You no longer two- step, you now hip hop.

>

>

> This is my experience as well. Telling my nada things is a waste

> of time. She either ignores what I say or gets angry about it. I

> have trained her to some extent. I can't control what she does,

> but I can control the way I react. If she calls outside of

> reasonable calling hours I either don't answer or I make it

> clear that I was asleep and am not going to discuss anything

> that isn't an emergency with her. If she insists on bad-mouthing

> my sister or other people when I am talking to her I say " I'm

> not going to discuss that with you " and leave or hang up the

> phone if she persists. If she " needs " my help with her so-called

> emergencies that are usually brought on by her failure to act

> sensibly, I help when it is convenient for me. I refuse to drop

> everything and come running unless she has a real emergency that

> I don't think she can deal with herself. As she has seen that

> her nasty manipulative behavior and outrageous actions don't get

> the results she wants, she has started playing by my rules more

> of the time.

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have and continue to stand up to nada. It is hard, because

somehow I feel like the bad guy till she is done with me.

It is something I must continue to do-because I can't have nada keep

controlling my life.

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " happyout " wrote:

>

> Another thing I did that Im happy with was I pre-empted the

> triangulation that will happen in the new year when nada starts

chemo.

>

> I realise that my npdfather will play the martyr to get NS, then

> he'll collapse or something and it will be expected that I then

care

> for nada, f/t and move back 'home'.

>

> What I did was I rang all the 'important' friends in nadas circle

who

> then would spread things on the grapevine and told them of how Id

> done all this work setting up the nursing home care and how my

> ndpfather reversed this, (not in any way putting ndpfather down

etc -

> more out of concern). It comes across like it is. This is the

first

> time I have done anything like this - out clevering my npdsister

and

> npdfather. Then I raised my concerns to those people about getting

> work in the job market etc. This is simply to pre-empt the

backlash

> to my reputation that will come when I refuse to care for her f/t

> after npd father et al will try to guilt trip me into it.

>

> Such is life

> Grace

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi there

> > > > >

> > > > > Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> > > > > indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family

and

> in

> > > > life in

> > > > > general.

> > > > >

> > > > > I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in

> > > writing

> > > > with

> > > > > their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do

> that,

> > or

> > > > that

> > > > > wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about

> how

> > I

> > > > handle

> > > > > things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me

> > > thinking

> > > > > about why that was.

> > > > >

> > > > > I just had a general question for everyone here - how many

> > people

> > > > > directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and

how

> > > they

> > > > did

> > > > > that and how did it go?

> > > > >

> > > > > I know people have different situations and some are very

> > > dangerous

> > > > > etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some

> > > > feedback

> > > > > about my approaches and some different perspectives.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks!

> > > > > Grace

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Bridget,

That is life with a bp....and yes- there are no boundaries.

I just got off the phone with my nada- and because I did not agree

with her, about something so insignificant. Her reaction was- was in

a bad mood, or angry. Then she always takes it up a notch. Was I now

not going with her to a play tomorrow night. We go from 0 to 180.

It is just crazy, and that is how you feel.

It is not you- it is her, and you are entitled to boundaries and

a life. They are parasites on our soul and self esteem.

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " bridget.tehan "

wrote:

>

> hello

> i am new to the group but have found a (chilling!) similarity in

this

> thread with some of my own experiences. like many in the group i

have

> found significant problems with boundaries and my bpd mother. she

> would drop by, all the time, three four sometimes five times a

week.

> and then stay and stay and stay. my husband and i finally mustered

> the courage to ask her to phone before dropping in, just to check

> that it was convenient for us. well! stormy tantrums, bitter

emails,

> sobbing phone calls, cruel and twisted accusations that my husband

> was trying to come between her and me and the grandchildren...a

year

> of very haughty standoffishness, nose cut off to spite her face,

> before things returned to a civilised state and a now much more

> superficial but happier (for us!) relationship wiht her. and lucky

> for us she continues to respect thouse boundaries. but what a price

> to pay! i'm lucky that i have a very supportive, strong and

> understanding husband. i couldn't do it without him. my mother's

> third husband very confidently stated to us early on in their brief

> marriage that the problem with her was that no-one had stood up to

> her...wrong. they had, many previuos boyfriends, husbands, fiends,

> family members etc, and they all paid the price through being

> demonised, cast aside and detested forever more. standing up to a

bpd

> is a risky business, and i think it only worked for us becasue we

are

> one of the very few functional relationships she has left in the

> world, and she knows she needs to be careful not to destroy it as

> well. i really like this thread's ideas of softly slowly changing

> habits, and might try it next time.

> now to negotiate christmas with a bpd who hates everybody...

> thanks for listening

> bernadette

>

> In WTOAdultChildren1 , " fl0g1rl " <doubleo77@>

> wrote:

> >

> > I agree with this. I've set boundaries and the same results -

> > temporary change but it comes back to bite me harder down the

road.

> > Learning to set boundaries has been wonderful for the rest of my

> life

> > but they don't work with bpds in my experience. Thanks for

sharing

> > your habits, etc. That's very interesting. Regarding your passive

> > aggressive comment - my T actually said with going nc with my

nada

> > passive aggressive is ok because with a bpd they are so likely to

> > drag it out and make it a huge thing. It's the one time she said

> not

> > to be direct. She said to do just what you suggest - screen

calls,

> > gradually less contact, etc.

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Hi there

> > > >

> > > > Ive been thinking about the benefits of directly and

> > > > indirectly 'standing up for myself' with nada and family and

in

> > > life in

> > > > general.

> > > >

> > > > I remember a poster given advice to directly set limits in

> > writing

> > > with

> > > > their nada and at the time I thought - 'ouch, couldnt do

that,

> or

> > > that

> > > > wouldnt work for me' and my reaction got me thinking about

how

> I

> > > handle

> > > > things in my life and with my FOO and nada. And it got me

> > thinking

> > > > about why that was.

> > > >

> > > > I just had a general question for everyone here - how many

> people

> > > > directly stated their needs and limits to their nadas and how

> > they

> > > did

> > > > that and how did it go?

> > > >

> > > > I know people have different situations and some are very

> > dangerous

> > > > etc. - but just throwing out a general question to get some

> > > feedback

> > > > about my approaches and some different perspectives.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!

> > > > Grace

> > > >

> > >

> >

>