Guest guest Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hi, blue jay My take on your situtation -- based purely on my experiences with my own nada, mind you-- is that it wouldn't matter one bit whether you sent a letter or not! We can't control these people. We can try to express, reasonably or not-so-reasonably, what we'd like them to do or how we'd like them to behave or what boundaries we'd like them to respect.... well, after 46 years of going through all the hoops and steps and negotiations and arguments and pleadings and silent treatments and emails and therapy sessions.... My nada is STILL clueless. She can still PRETEND to be sane and respectful when it suits her, for limited periods of time. She'll STILL do and say exactly what she wants, when she wants, and can justify (or " forget " and later deny) even the most heinous inappropriate behavior. These people are mentally ill. Normal rules of conduct don't apply to them. I say, spare yourself the grief and stop worrying about making any permanent changes, rules or boundaries -- because she's just going to ignore them anyway! If you want to maintain contact, I'd try to accept that it's going to be on her insane terms and never on yours. The good news is: you don't ever have to take her behavior personally! In fact, if you read through the archives, you'll see how common it is for nadas to lose it and act out when their daughters marry (or have kids of their own). My own nada bad-mouthed my husband for 20 years -- did everything she could to get between us -- and GLORIED in our divorce. When I had my son, I got 1-1/2 years of Silent Treatment from her. Nice! Remember: You didn't cause her illness, you can't control it and you sure can't cure it! We can't change them OR control how they treat us. For me, accepting this truth was the first step toward healing... letting go of the fantasy that if I just said or did just the right thing, in precisely the right way, I could get through to that woman and we'd finally have a normal relationship. I've never had a therapist who even CAME CLOSE to getting this, by the way! In fact, the therapists I've had contact with since diagnosing her have been TOTALLY dismissive of BPD. So be aware that many therapists down-play this illness and will give you advice as if you're dealing with a rational human being and not a BP! Best of luck, hope this helps. S Confused To: WTOAdultChildren1 > I am really confused. > > I had an upsetting phone conversation with my mom about my > Thanksgiving plans (you > may remember that post). She bashed my husband really badly and > brought up a million > things from the past. > > I was very angry after that, and I wrote my mom a letter at my > Therapist's suggestion. > The letter says that there are some things I would like to see > change in our relationship. > There are three main things: 1. I want the conversations we > have to be more equal, not all > about her. 2. I won't listen to her bash my husband. I will > hang up without warning. 3. I > am no one's custody, and I want her to treat me like an adult > and not a child. > > So, the past two conversations I've had with her have been > really nice. She hasn't been > mad, she hasn't re-hashed old things a million times. It's been > really cool. So now I'm > doubting myself. Do I send the letter? Is the problem solved > without me sending the > letter? > > The thing that is really difficult with my mom is that she is > hot and cold...fine in several > conversations, then bammo! She's not ok with me anymore. I > don't know if she is going > to be ok with me when I call or not. > > Anyway, I'm just thinking on paper mostly here. Thanks. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 In some ways I agree with the previous poster - sending the letter is likely to have little to no effect on your mother's behavior. On the other hand, your mother's mental illness should not prevent you from setting and then sticking to reasonable, safe boundaries. Also, as my husband likes to remind me, don't let her behavior stop you from doing the right thing. The right thing seems to me to be to give fair warning of how you are going to enforce your boundaries, and then do it. As you and and I and everyone here on this board knows, the fact that she's being " nice " now has no bearing on how she's going to act tomorrow, next week, next month, etc. My therapist is the one who told me my mother most likely has BPD and NPD. She is certified in dialectical behavioral therapy, which is, I believe, the only known effective treatment for BPD, so if anyone is familiar with the disease, she is. And she has always encouraged me to set, state, and stick to reasonable boundaries in my relationship with my mother. Sometimes in writing is the only way to get your point across without being cut off by screaming, never to be allowed to finish what you had to say. In summary, I would send the letter! Tara > > I am really confused. > > I had an upsetting phone conversation with my mom about my Thanksgiving plans (you > may remember that post). She bashed my husband really badly and brought up a million > things from the past. > > I was very angry after that, and I wrote my mom a letter at my Therapist's suggestion. > The letter says that there are some things I would like to see change in our relationship. > There are three main things: 1. I want the conversations we have to be more equal, not all > about her. 2. I won't listen to her bash my husband. I will hang up without warning. 3. I > am no one's custody, and I want her to treat me like an adult and not a child. > > So, the past two conversations I've had with her have been really nice. She hasn't been > mad, she hasn't re-hashed old things a million times. It's been really cool. So now I'm > doubting myself. Do I send the letter? Is the problem solved without me sending the > letter? > > The thing that is really difficult with my mom is that she is hot and cold...fine in several > conversations, then bammo! She's not ok with me anymore. I don't know if she is going > to be ok with me when I call or not. > > Anyway, I'm just thinking on paper mostly here. Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hi Blu Jay, I totally agree with SLarsen " s opinion. She said it very eloquently. Because Nadas are mentally ill they cannot and will NOT GET IT ever. Period. All you can do is to protect yourself and your family the best way you can; and often that means going NC. Nadas are " crazy makers " and will never take any responsibility for the havoc that they leave in their wake. Also true is that many therapists don't get the concept of BPD either. Please take care of yourself first! Sheila > Hi, blue jay > > My take on your situtation -- based purely on my experiences with my own nada, mind you-- is that it wouldn't matter one bit whether you sent a letter or not! > > We can't control these people. We can try to express, reasonably or not-so-reasonably, what we'd like them to do or how we'd like them to behave or what boundaries we'd like them to respect.... well, after 46 years of going through all the hoops and steps and negotiations and arguments and pleadings and silent treatments and emails and therapy sessions.... > > My nada is STILL clueless. > She can still PRETEND to be sane and respectful when it suits her, for limited periods of time. > She'll STILL do and say exactly what she wants, when she wants, and can justify (or " forget " and later deny) even the most heinous inappropriate behavior. > > These people are mentally ill. Normal rules of conduct don't apply to them. > > I say, spare yourself the grief and stop worrying about making any permanent changes, rules or boundaries -- because she's just going to ignore them anyway! If you want to maintain contact, I'd try to accept that it's going to be on her insane terms and never on yours. > > The good news is: you don't ever have to take her behavior personally! In fact, if you read through the archives, you'll see how common it is for nadas to lose it and act out when their daughters marry (or have kids of their own). My own nada bad- mouthed my husband for 20 years -- did everything she could to get between us -- and GLORIED in our divorce. When I had my son, I got 1-1/2 years of Silent Treatment from her. Nice! > > Remember: You didn't cause her illness, you can't control it and you sure can't cure it! We can't change them OR control how they treat us. For me, accepting this truth was the first step toward healing... letting go of the fantasy that if I just said or did just the right thing, in precisely the right way, I could get through to that woman and we'd finally have a normal relationship. > > I've never had a therapist who even CAME CLOSE to getting this, by the way! In fact, the therapists I've had contact with since diagnosing her have been TOTALLY dismissive of BPD. So be aware that many therapists down-play this illness and will give you advice as if you're dealing with a rational human being and not a BP! > > Best of luck, hope this helps. > > S > > > > Confused > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > I am really confused. > > > > I had an upsetting phone conversation with my mom about my > > Thanksgiving plans (you > > may remember that post). She bashed my husband really badly and > > brought up a million > > things from the past. > > > > I was very angry after that, and I wrote my mom a letter at my > > Therapist's suggestion. > > The letter says that there are some things I would like to see > > change in our relationship. > > There are three main things: 1. I want the conversations we > > have to be more equal, not all > > about her. 2. I won't listen to her bash my husband. I will > > hang up without warning. 3. I > > am no one's custody, and I want her to treat me like an adult > > and not a child. > > > > So, the past two conversations I've had with her have been > > really nice. She hasn't been > > mad, she hasn't re-hashed old things a million times. It's been > > really cool. So now I'm > > doubting myself. Do I send the letter? Is the problem solved > > without me sending the > > letter? > > > > The thing that is really difficult with my mom is that she is > > hot and cold...fine in several > > conversations, then bammo! She's not ok with me anymore. I > > don't know if she is going > > to be ok with me when I call or not. > > > > Anyway, I'm just thinking on paper mostly here. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Don't doubt yourself. You didn't imagine that conversation you described earlier and you presumably have experienced similarly nasty conversations in the past as well. I doubt that the problem is solved without sending the letter. It may be temporarily resolved though. Nadas are unpredictable. Experience tells me that mine will go back to her old ways at some point. Dealing with her is like walking across an old mine field. You never know when you're going to step on one of the mines and have it explode and sometimes they explode without any obvious cause. There are things that tend to set my nada off, but she also explodes for no obvious reason. When she wants something she's less likely to explode. Once she's gotten what she wants she's more likely to explode. I wouldn't send the letter if I were in your position. Trying to communicate in writing is one of the things that makes my nada explode, so I'm probably biased against letters as a technique for causing change in nadas. Mine seems to regard it as an insult if anyone writes her a note or letter when they could just talk to her. If yours responds well to letters, sending the letter might be a good idea even if she has behaved well recently. At 07:53 PM 12/06/2008 luckybluejay wrote: >I am really confused. > >I had an upsetting phone conversation with my mom about my >Thanksgiving plans (you >may remember that post). She bashed my husband really badly >and brought up a million >things from the past. > > I was very angry after that, and I wrote my mom a letter at > my Therapist's suggestion. >The letter says that there are some things I would like to see >change in our relationship. >There are three main things: 1. I want the conversations we >have to be more equal, not all >about her. 2. I won't listen to her bash my husband. I will >hang up without warning. 3. I >am no one's custody, and I want her to treat me like an adult >and not a child. > >So, the past two conversations I've had with her have been >really nice. She hasn't been >mad, she hasn't re-hashed old things a million times. It's >been really cool. So now I'm >doubting myself. Do I send the letter? Is the problem solved >without me sending the >letter? > >The thing that is really difficult with my mom is that she is >hot and cold...fine in several >conversations, then bammo! She's not ok with me anymore. I >don't know if she is going >to be ok with me when I call or not. > >Anyway, I'm just thinking on paper mostly here. Thanks. -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I think you should send the letter. You may need to read it again, to be sure that it applies now that you & her have cooled off. You have a right to voice your opinions & set your BOUNDRIES!!! & thats what you were doing. Of course, once she reads your letter... It will probally set her off. However I feel that you need to send it to her anyway, set the boundries. You wll feel better in the end. Nerak Subject: Confused To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:53 AM I am really confused. I had an upsetting phone conversation with my mom about my Thanksgiving plans (you may remember that post). She bashed my husband really badly and brought up a million things from the past. I was very angry after that, and I wrote my mom a letter at my Therapist's suggestion. The letter says that there are some things I would like to see change in our relationship. There are three main things: 1. I want the conversations we have to be more equal, not all about her. 2. I won't listen to her bash my husband. I will hang up without warning. 3. I am no one's custody, and I want her to treat me like an adult and not a child. So, the past two conversations I've had with her have been really nice. She hasn't been mad, she hasn't re-hashed old things a million times. It's been really cool.. So now I'm doubting myself. Do I send the letter? Is the problem solved without me sending the letter? The thing that is really difficult with my mom is that she is hot and cold....fine in several conversations, then bammo! She's not ok with me anymore. I don't know if she is going to be ok with me when I call or not. Anyway, I'm just thinking on paper mostly here. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 > I've never had a therapist who even CAME CLOSE to getting this, by >the way! In fact, the therapists I've had contact with since >diagnosing her have been TOTALLY dismissive of BPD. So be aware >that many therapists down-play this illness and will give you advice >as if you're dealing with a rational human being and not a BP! Slarsen, what you wrote Lucky about the therapists really jumped out at me. I've had a very hard time finding a therapist who truly gets it, and I DO ask them if they know about BPD and have treated KO's before. They initially say all the right things, like they read the same books I did but eventually it comes out that they don't really understand. In my last unfortunate therapy attempt I spent three months pouring my heart out, explaining how emotionally extreme my nada's reactions were to having boundaries set. Then my " reflective " therapist decides to get all commanding and tells me " I just need to... " a bunch of things that would make her insane and make my life hell. I felt totally ripped off and I even gave her another session after that to make sure she really didn't get it, and she didn't! All the nodding, all those sympathetic responses means NOTHING. Forgive my ranting, I'm still steamed - I paid a thousand of my own money for that. If I try therapy again, I plan to be much more assertive about questioning them on what they understand - appearing to listen sympathetically is not enough, not even close. Luckyblue, I do have some experience with that scenario and I agree with others that you just need to take action, don't announce anything. The second she starts in on your husband, say " I will not talk with you about this, I've gotta go. " and hang up. After a couple times, she will get it. I discovered that trying to have a rational discussion, stating needs, trying to help them see your point of view, *just doesn't work* because the illness has damaged them in that way. They can, if high-functioning, fake understanding and change but usually time will show the truth on that one. Good luck to you and stand strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.