Re: Re: Cry for attention? Total disregard? Suicide coming soon?

[Guest guest]

Just curious, Annie --

Have you come across any studies involving Obsessive Compulsive Personality

Disorder? That's one of the C-cluster (I believe) personality disorders --

along with the Schizoid PD and one other one I forget -- that is very much

involved with the dynamic of fear-based control.

(It's a separate illness from OCD, by the way.)

The only reason I know about this particular personality disorder is that it

turns out this is what my ex-H has. Any info you've come across would be

greatly appreciated!

Best,

S

Re: Cry for attention? Total disregard? Suicide

coming soon?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> I'm noticing in a lot of posts that the underlying common thread with

> our bpd mothers (in particular) is this " control " issue. Having

> absolute, total control over not only us, their children, but

> over as

> many people as possible, and control over situations: its all about

> control. When they do not have control, they become enraged.

>

> I've recently been reading case studies about psychopaths, and the

> control issue is a common thread with them also. Its uncanny

> how many

> of the behaviors of psychopaths and bpds and narcissists are so

> similar; the only difference appears (to me) to be merely a

> matter of

> degree, not type.

>

> The write-ups say that these people feel completely empty inside,

> hollow, and the way they fill up their emptiness is by

> controlling (or

> attempting to control) everything that they possibly can. Controlling

> everyone and everything around them makes them feel like they actually

> exist, and are real.

>

> Standing up to bpds/narcissists/psychopaths and giving them boundaries

> is a way of limiting or removing their control; anyone or anything

> that takes away their control enrages them.

>

> Bottom line: they are quite severely mentally ill.

>

> We KO's have been literally brainwashed from birth by a mentally ill

> person. Not parented: trapped, caged, and brainwashed... By An

> Insane Person.

>

> A person with a defective, diseased, broken brain has been

> telling us

> who we are our whole lives; no wonder its so effing difficult to

> over-ride this toxic programming and regain our authentic

> selves.

>

> A parent's job is to nurture, to guide, to encourage, to offer

> choices, explore possibilities, and teach a child how to be a

> self-assured, loving, hard-working, thoughtful, self-sufficient,

> decent, moral, free adult human being who can give something

> good to

> the world.

>

> Instead, we were emotionally and physically beaten into submission.

> Because that's all the bpds want is total obedience and submission,

> total control.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Last night's " car trip " with Nada.

> > >

> > > Did some local shopping with Nada. She drove. She was " sad " last

> > > night (didn't know THAT before I went with her...). In a

> dense fog,

> > > going up a dark rural freeway she decides to play " sad

> music " . She

> > > starts driving off the road because she has her eyes closed.

> > > OMG!!!! " MOTHER OPEN YOUR EYES AND STAY ON THE ROAD "

> > >

> > > Her reply, " Oh yeah, I guess I should... "

> > >

> > > A few months ago she drove off an embankment and landed her car

> > > several feed down, sideways. Wasn't seriously injured and

> her car

> > > is " ok " . Has a load of bumps, dings, dents, etc. from " not

> her fault

> > > incidents " .

> > >

> > > It scares the bejeebies out of me but last night really sent

> it over

> > > the edge.

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks anyway, Annie!

It was quite a project -- and took me several years -- to finally diagnose him!

I always knew he was the same " level of crazy " as my BP nada, but he was very

different and clearly not a BP. I've also read a lot about NPDs and psychopaths

-- and he didn't fit those, either.

There's no co-morbidity n his case, though -- although he DEFINITELY acts out,

not in. (I WISH he acted in and blamed himself, lol!) Those DSM-IV

descriptions are sadly lacking sometimes.

Best,

S

Re: Cry for attention? Total disregard? Suicide

coming soon?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> No, sorry; haven't done much reading about the other personality

> disorder clusters.

>

> But the main difference between the cluster groups that I notice is

> that the " Cluster B " pds (the borderlines, narcissists and

> psychopaths) " act out " their fears & dysfunctions: they blame and

> mistreat other people , while " Cluster A " pds ( the paranoids,

> schiziods, and schizotypals) AND the " Cluster C " pds (the

> obsessive-compulsives, avoidants and dependents) " act in " , meaning

> they blame and mistreat themselves.

>

> Lucky us, we were raised by members of the " Drama Club. "

> Although, to

> be honest, I imagine that being raised by a different kind of

> pd, like

> a paranoid, is disturbing and scary and causes distress in a

> child also.

>

> Keep in mind that it is possible for an individual to have

> " co-morbidities " , or more than one mental illness at the same time.

>

> I haven't read any studies yet about which mental illnesses tend to

> " go together " , or the statistics about how frequently mental illnesses

> occur, or in which combination, etc. But it would be interesting to

> find out.

>

> The source I use is the DSM-IV, aka " Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

> of Mental Disorders " used by the American Psychiatric Association,

> which can be found at various places online.

>

> Its at Wikipedia (at least for now!):

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV_Codes#Personality_disorders

>

> -Annie

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Last night's " car trip " with Nada.

> > > > >

> > > > > Did some local shopping with Nada. She drove. She was

> " sad " last

> > > > > night (didn't know THAT before I went with her...). In a

> > > dense fog,

> > > > > going up a dark rural freeway she decides to play " sad

> > > music " . She

> > > > > starts driving off the road because she has her eyes closed.

> > > > > OMG!!!! " MOTHER OPEN YOUR EYES AND STAY ON THE ROAD "

> > > > >

> > > > > Her reply, " Oh yeah, I guess I should... "

> > > > >

> > > > > A few months ago she drove off an embankment and landed

> her car

> > > > > several feed down, sideways. Wasn't seriously injured

> and

> > > her car

> > > > > is " ok " . Has a load of bumps, dings, dents, etc. from

> " not

> > > her fault

> > > > > incidents " .

> > > > >

> > > > > It scares the bejeebies out of me but last night really

> sent

> > > it over

> > > > > the edge.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lynnette

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Fortunately for me, after reading these posts, my mother was never much of a

driver.  After my father's attempted suicide which left him without one eye and

legally blind in the other, I became the " official family chauffeur " when I was

18.  I remember one time after visiting my father in the VA hospital I was

trying to back out of a parking space, it was downpouring and I really didn't

have much experience driving. I had only had my official license a few months. I

slightly touched another car's bumper and my mother started screaming at me.  I

left without checking the other car because I hardly touched it .  She carried

on the entire drive home and after 45 minutes I just couldn't take listening to

her.  I lost it and delibertly jammed on the brakes which gave her and my poor

brother in the backseat quite a scare.  I quickly made up an excuse that a cat

had run out in the road and I had to stop asap to avoid hitting it.  It's like I

subconsciously wanted to throw her through the windshield just to shut her up

..  What really surprised me is my younger brother, who was only 14 at the time

said to me later " there wasn't a cat in the road, was there? "   He knew, he

understood, but, I wouldn't admit to the truth.  I always felt bad about that

and felt noone, but, my mother could ever drive me to that point.

Everytime I drive her anywhere she lets out exclamations or screams like I'm

going to have an accident and it's so distracting.  She criticizes my driving

constantly and makes me a nervous wreck.  That is nothng compared to the

conversations she chooses to bring up while I'm on a busy highway like last week

on the way to driving her to a dr.'s appointment she comes out with ... " Did you

tell your brother you would kill yourself if I came back to stay at your

house? "   She was talking about 7 1/2 years ago, a very horrible time in my life

where nada came for Easter dinner and never left (over 6 months) and a time I

would like to forget about.  My nada apparently finds a need to bring up that

time in every conversation and at the most inappropriate times.  I answered as

calmly as I could that I didn't recall ever saying that and must we talk about

that when you should be focusing on what you need to tell the doctor. "   However,

as much as I like to

believe I am able to turn her off I am still effected.  Needless to say I

couldn't find the hospital, I got lost, a place i've been to a zillion times and

could not understand how I could totally miss a huge building?  LOL!  It only

happens when nada is in the car .  I've run red lights, I've gone in the wrong

lane w/traffic coming towards me, i have missed streets, driven on pavement ONLY

when she is in the car.  And all of this mishaps only fuels her regarding my

poor driving and how nervous I make her, etc... 

I have found if I try to self talk before I pick her up, recite the serenity

prayer, anything to keep me from re-acting to her dramas I am a little better at

dealing with her and more focused on my driving.  Since self preservation is

very important to nada, she will quiet down after I do something that frightens

her while I'm driving and she will actually say " let's not talk while you are

driving " .  One thing I try to remember is focusing-when I'm driving, drive...i

did learn that from a mindfulness course I took many years ago.  It was actually

DBT I think, though at the time I had no clue about borderline personality

disorder. I only remember the woman (marsha linneham?) who developed the course

had originally done it for bpd patients and then found it was very useful for

everyone.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:56:26 AM

Subject: Re: Cry for attention? Total disregard? Suicide

coming soon?

Wowza this was an eye-opening post! I didn't get a chance to read

all the responses, but I am glad that of those I read, everyone came

out alive.

*Driving* is an aspect of stepnada's abuse of my sister and that I

never thought of! First, stepnada is a HORRIBLE driver - speeds,

tailgates, runs reds, has road rage, yells at people and flips them

off, and has been in NINE accidents, TWO of which weren't her fault.

(Thought I have to question those two she claims weren't her fault.)

Riding in the car with her was absolutely terrifying and the one and

only time she tried to teach me to drive, I was left in a puddle of

tears, and she raged for hours about what a BABY I was. Ugh. Also,

don't know if this is true for any of you, but after I moved out,

anytime I agreed to meet her somewhere (dinner, shopping, etc) she

would INSIST VEHEMENTLY that I meet her at the house so she could

drive me!!! There was no saying no (duh). She would get offended if

I wouldn't let her drive me around. Riding in the car with her made

me feel like an eight year old and I would start feeling that same

caged animal anxiety that was my state of mind anytime I was spending

time with her. Plus, if she started a fight (and she usually did), I

would be trapped whereever we were with no option of getting up and

driving home.

>

> Last night's " car trip " with Nada.

>

> Did some local shopping with Nada. She drove. She was " sad " last

> night (didn't know THAT before I went with her...). In a dense fog,

> going up a dark rural freeway she decides to play " sad music " . She

> starts driving off the road because she has her eyes closed.

> OMG!!!! " MOTHER OPEN YOUR EYES AND STAY ON THE ROAD "

>

> Her reply, " Oh yeah, I guess I should... "

>

> A few months ago she drove off an embankment and landed her car

> several feed down, sideways. Wasn't seriously injured and her car

> is " ok " . Has a load of bumps, dings, dents, etc. from " not her fault

> incidents " .

>

> It scares the bejeebies out of me but last night really sent it over

> the edge.

>

> Lynnette

>