Re: Re: panick attacks over thought of seeing Nada after my brother's accident

[Guest guest]

I understand completely.  I have little contact with my mother, but now she is

ill and I feel " bad " to the core for not doing more.  Today is my

granddaughter's 5th birthday (we are raising her).  My sister had called to tell

me that Mom wanted to get something really nice for the child but didn't know

what since she hardly sees her.  Major hook!  The gift is a manipulation, I

know, and she wnet thorugh my sister since I usually don't answer the phone when

she calls.  I am not going or taking the child so see her or inviting her to the

family get-together tonight, yet I feel terrible about it, and once again she

has managed to make this about HER, not the child.  And then there is

Thanksgiving and Christmas, and Nada's birthday was last week (I sent a card and

gift certificate but felt horrible for not visiting.....she is only about 45

minutes away)  It is a slow process to free ourselves of their brainwashing and

programming!

 

As for wanting to get rid of the " junk " she has given me, I wanted to for a long

time, and have started doing so.  Every time I start feeling the pull to go back

and have more contact, I clean out more of her junk that she gave to me. 

Somehow, it helps.  I keep reminding myself that I don't intend to allow her

back into my house, and it is MY house, I decide what stays and goes (and who

stays and who goes)!

>

> Wow. Kudos for your courage in being there for your dad in spite of

> your nada, and kudos for going very LC with your nada.

>

> When she visits you over Thanksgiving, though, I just hope that your

> nada isn't the kind who will try to get even with you for standing

up

> to her by getting your little 5-year-old alone and saying creepy,

> frightening, damaging things to the child. ( " Your mommy is a hateful

> mean witch, isn't she? You love grandma but your mommy wants to keep

> you away from me. Your Mommy is so bad for keeping us apart that

she's

> going to go to hell when she dies... " etc.,etc.)

>

> Is there any way you can keep them from being alone together?

>

> I don't think nadas should be trusted around little kids, myself.

>

> Children have absolutely NO defenses against emotional abuse,

> particularly if they love, trust, or (conversely) are afraid of the

> person abusing them.

>

> A 5-year-old can't say, " Oh shut up, grandma, you're full of crap! "

> or " How dare you say that about my mother, you crazy old bitch! "

> They need us to do that for them!

>

> -Annie

>

> (So much for " compassionate detachment " , huh?)

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been

doing

> > > great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and

like

> > > others in here it's really making a huge difference in my

life. I'm

> > > starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail

anziety is

> > > almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and

relationships

> > > with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

> absence in

> > > my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and

feeling

> less

> > > guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that

> looking back

> > > a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months

ago

> I had

> > > a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

> able to

> > > really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really

shook

> me to

> > > the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see

my

> Nada

> > > again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone

because

> > > that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-

mails

> but I

> > > only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced

myself, like

> > > someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even

though we

> > > made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows

my

> > > husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to

him.

> > > Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my

> brother was

> > > in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

> brother

> > > is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him

so I

> > > wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

> called my

> > > father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my

brother was

> > > in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places

and is

> > > now paralyzed from the waist down.

> > > At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

> shape and

> > > may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

> head was

> > > crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived

> and his

> > > head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very

swollen.

> > > But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to

> see him

> > > before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than

any

> of my

> > > siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time

> of his

> > > life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she

lives in

> > > Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too

so I

> > > don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from

her. I

> > > feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because

of

> > > her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move

back to

> > > Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go

back for

> > > visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to

see them

> > > and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what

BPD

> > > is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or

that

> I was

> > > there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

> husband

> > > and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

> see my

> > > brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on

the

> cell

> > > phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> > > isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to

call

> > > Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here

and

> where

> > > you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who

was

> > > in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

> she had

> > > nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the

hospital to

> > > see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she

would go

> > > there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about

him. The

> > > brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he

only cares

> > > if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He

says that

> > > since I left she started treating him bad like she always

treated

> me and

> > > he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him

alone.

> Nice

> > > brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> > > didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened

and

> > > then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were

only a

> > > couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call

my Mom.

> > > As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .�.anywhere�.at the

> > > hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> > > house�.anywhere�..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like

I

> > > wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> > > ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my

husband

> said

> > > " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> > > just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " �..the more

> > > I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO

way I

> > > am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> > > the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> > > your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> > > security guards all around you every where you go so she can't

even

> > > get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> > > everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

> see her

> > > and deal with her�..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> > > finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled

over and

> > > talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

> California.

> > > Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be

best to

> > > not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few

miles

> > > down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that

I

> > > didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> > > thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing

brother, I

> > > HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity

again.

> > > What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved

brother on

> > > his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> > > OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction,

towards

> NADA,

> > > it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a

real

> > > heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is

the

> > > matter with me�..my Brother needs me and I am letting her

affect me

> > > like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and

forth a

> > > few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My

husband

> > > finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't

even

> > > try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the

result

> would

> > > be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat

was

> > > removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted

this

> > > way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> > > unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

> there?

> > > I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house

in

> > > California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I

not

> going

> > > to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

> things

> > > could happen to any of my family members, are they going to

think I

> > > don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> > > as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who

had the

> > > accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay

with us

> > > for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as

he

> goes,

> > > he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

> out OK.

> > > But if he had died�..would I have ever forgiven myself for

not being

> > > with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> > > realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother

must be

> > > for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being

face to

> > > face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of?

I knew

> > > she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> > > anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and

not

> > > saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could

> picture it,

> > > staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a

look. I

> > > guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

> hate me

> > > BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense

than

> it was

> > > when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not

something

> > > mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you

could say

> > > she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she

did.

> But

> > > you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she

actually has

> > > something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my

> whole life

> > > to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time

that I

> > > stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified

> of the

> > > repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked

witch,

> > > just waiting for her wrath to come.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have

to give

> > > up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free

of

> her.

> > > I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I

could

> have

> > > a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes

wish she

> > > would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to

go No

> > > Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for

her to

> > > die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

> with my

> > > life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well,

but

> leave

> > > me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> > > someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please

no one

> > > take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!! !!!!!

I just

> > > want her out of my life completely and forever, not really

dead, just

> > > dead to me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out

> of fear

> > > that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> > > other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left

her she

> > > sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did

before.

> > > They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I

don't.

> > > Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to

forget

> > > about her and every time I turn the corner there is something

that she

> > > gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out

everything that

> > > was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders�..do

you

> > > want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows

up on

> > > my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or

that is.

> > > Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for

fear

> > > she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her

feelings. My

> > > husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a

visit she

> > > should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those

things

> > > around��..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me

one at a

> > > time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working

but as

> > > the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if

she ever

> > > came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing

and I

> > > stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I

still see

> > > them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want

to

> > > remove but I don't.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting

so

> strong

> > > and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with

my

> > > brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> > > starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

> Texas two

> > > step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one

step back

> > > but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go

back all

> > > the way.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree with  you.  I too got to the point where I had to choose between being

functional in others areas of my life, and spending time around NADA.  Nada had

to go.  I wish I could do both.  Maybe someday.  Right now, it takes too much

out of me and brings on an increase in the flashbacks, dissociation, and other

PTSD symptoms.  We were taught that our limits did not count, but that was a

lie!  Take care of yourself.

Subject: Re: panick attacks over thought of seeing Nada

after my brother's accident

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 4:38 PM

Hi Lotus, just a few random thoughts.... it's important to honor where

you are at now. Where you are at now is that the prospect of

dealing with your nada gives you panic attacks, so give yourself

permission not to. If you want those other family members in your

life, bring them to you to visit in California, connect through email

and phone...there are ways to relate to them that matter without

putting yourself at risk. Even though you might feel sad or lack

closure not to go to a funeral, funerals are for the living - the

dead have already left the building. As one of the living, it's okay

to take care of you.

Now I realize some might say I'm advising you to give in to your fear

and that's wrong, well you post here for multiple perspectives

right? Some people are wired differently and sometimes the costs

involved are different. One particular time of confronation with my

nada gave me a nervous breakdown I was unable to work - I have no one

to take care of me and had built my career for a decade, so for me

this was a big deal. When I consider the cost of confrontation, I

have to consider my well-being also. I believe getting to a point

where one can deal with " a nada " without panic attacks and nervous

breakdowns is important, and we should commit ourselves to do the

personal work needed to get there. But hey, if you aren't there

yet it is okay...gotta deal with where things stand right now.

>

> Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been

doing

> great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and like

> others in here it's really making a huge difference in my life. I'm

> starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail anziety is

> almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and

relationships

> with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

absence in

> my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and feeling

less

> guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that looking

back

> a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months ago I

had

> a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

able to

> really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really shook

me to

> the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see my

Nada

> again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone

because

> that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-mails

but I

> only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced myself,

like

> someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even though

we

> made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows my

> husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to him.

> Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my brother

was

> in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

brother

> is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him so I

> wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

called my

> father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my brother

was

> in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places and

is

> now paralyzed from the waist down.

> At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

shape and

> may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

head was

> crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived and

his

> head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very

swollen.

> But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to see

him

> before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than any

of my

> siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time of

his

> life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she lives

in

> Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too so I

> don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from her. I

> feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because of

> her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move back to

> Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go back for

> visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to see

them

> and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what BPD

> is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or that

I was

> there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

husband

> and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

see my

> brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on the

cell

> phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to call

> Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here and

where

> you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who was

> in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

she had

> nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the hospital to

> see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she would go

> there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about him. The

> brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he only

cares

> if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He says

that

> since I left she started treating him bad like she always treated

me and

> he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him alone.

Nice

> brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened and

> then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were only a

> couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call my

Mom.

> As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .….anywhere….at the

> hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> house….anywhere… ..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like I

> wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my husband

said

> " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " …..the more

> I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO way I

> am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> security guards all around you every where you go so she can't even

> get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

see her

> and deal with her…..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled over and

> talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

California.

> Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be best

to

> not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few miles

> down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that I

> didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing brother, I

> HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity again.

> What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved brother

on

> his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction, towards

NADA,

> it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a real

> heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is the

> matter with me…..my Brother needs me and I am letting her affect me

> like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and forth a

> few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My husband

> finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't even

> try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the result

would

> be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat was

> removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted this

> way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

there?

> I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house in

> California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I not

going

> to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

things

> could happen to any of my family members, are they going to think I

> don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who had the

> accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay with

us

> for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as he

goes,

> he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

out OK.

> But if he had died…..would I have ever forgiven myself for not being

> with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother must

be

> for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being face to

> face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of? I

knew

> she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and not

> saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could picture

it,

> staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a look. I

> guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

hate me

> BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense than

it was

> when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not something

> mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you could

say

> she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she did.

But

> you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she actually has

> something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my whole

life

> to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time that

I

> stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified of

the

> repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked

witch,

> just waiting for her wrath to come.

>

>

>

> The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have to

give

> up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free of

her.

> I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I could

have

> a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes wish

she

> would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to go No

> Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for her to

> die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

with my

> life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well, but

leave

> me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please no one

> take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!! !!!!! I

just

> want her out of my life completely and forever, not really dead,

just

> dead to me.

>

>

>

> This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out of

fear

> that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left her she

> sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did

before.

> They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I don't.

> Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to forget

> about her and every time I turn the corner there is something that

she

> gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out everything

that

> was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders…..do you

> want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows up on

> my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or that

is.

> Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for fear

> she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her feelings.

My

> husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a visit she

> should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those things

> around……..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me one at a

> time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working but

as

> the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if she

ever

> came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing and I

> stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I still

see

> them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want to

> remove but I don't.

>

>

>

> Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting so

strong

> and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with my

> brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

Texas two

> step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one step

back

> but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go back

all

> the way.

>

>

>

> Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

>

>

>

>