Re: How to Diagnose BPD?

[Guest guest]

To answer your first question, my own therapist suggested that my

mother may be bpd. I began reading up on it and over time have become

absolutely convinced. I don't think anyone, even a professional, can

diagnose someone they haven't met personally. I'm pretty sure my

therapist even told me that at the time. However, that said, it

sounds to me like your mom has those traits.

Personally, I don't think the official diagnosis matters that much

because people with bpd don't accept it and rarely get treatment,

which I'm sure you've read. It just helps to understand what is

happening and how it affects you. I suggest talking to a therapist

about it, if you have insurance or can afford it. It's a really

tricky and confusing thing to deal with.

I originally went to a therapist to find out how I could help my mom,

because she seemed mentally ill to me too. Through the process I

realized I can only be responsible for myself. I say this because you

mentioned standing up to your mom. I just to do the same thing. It

shows a lot of courage, but it's also probably a waste of energy,

which you could put into something more positive. You just graduated

from college and I'm sure have many goals and dreams to pursue. Focus

on that!!! You deserve to begin your own life and put this behind you

as much as possible. It is not selfish (You may have been trained to

think that, but it's not).

If she is bpd you won't get through with fighting or by any other

means. You can't force anyone to change, especially not someone with

bpd. Hope that doesn't sound too harsh... but it's true.

>

> Hey All,

>

> I just joined this a few hours ago and have pretty much been reading

> up non-stop on what people have to say. I was wondering how many

here

> have diagnosed BP parents and how many just assume that they are

BP?

> I feel that my mother is pretty close to a nada (where does that

name

> come from?), but how can you know for sure?

>

> I should add my predicament: I just graduated from college and moved

> back in with the parents. If my mom is BP, she is high-functioning,

> so the first few months were more or less fine, but recently it has

> been a mess. I have always thought that my mom lacked rationality

and

> was overly emotional, but now I am afraid she may have a full blown

> mental illness. I was wondering, if I gave you some instances of

her

> behavior and explanations of her background, if anyone here could

tell

> me if she is a definite BP case?

>

> Some reasons:

>

> 1) She had an extremely traumatic childhood, the details of which I

> continue to learn about.

> 2) The driving thing - quite a few people here have mentioned this

and

> it really hit home. It almost seems like she's trying to get us

into

> a wreck when she is screaming bloody murder from the passenger seat

of

> the car for no apparent reason. She gets extremely worked up in

cars

> if anyone else is driving.

> 3) Splitting - definitely likes defining things in black/white

> good/evil terms. Recently, she admitted it has been hard for her to

> learn that " good people can do evil things, " and in general, if you

> are not supportive of her, you are automatically against her.

> 4) Excellent at guilt-tripping. Great example: We decided to get a

> family dog, and we were going to meet at the breeder's home. My

> brother and I were late arriving and the parents called us and told

us

> not to come, saying that they had already left. We came home to

find

> that they had impulsively gotten two dogs (we had only ever talked

> about getting one) because my mom thought they were so cute and

> perfect. When she asked what I thought about them, I said " well,

> they're great, but isn't it a little quick to have already picked up

> two of them? " She decided that my answer was not positive enough

and

> that I was not appreciating her. She yelled " I did this all for

you! "

> (there are five members of the family and she just blatantly singled

> me out) and then she ran away crying, to guilt me for not

appreciating

> her nice gesture that I had no say in.

> 5) She has intense bouts of rage that occur typically when she is

> stressed, but it is never obvious what triggers it and she always

> picks a single family member as the target (whom she screams at).

> There never seems to be any rationality behind it.

> 6) She likes to be the center of attention at all times, especially

at

> dinner parties when she tries to dominate conversation.

> 7) Her only true close friend left is my father, who is still

married

> to her and definitely co-dependent (even if she isn't BP, I am

certain

> they would both be messes without one another).

> 8) She is flawless in her own mind, and she redirects any criticism

of

> her usually with some stinging criticism of you. It seems that she

> has an impeccable memory of all your childhood flaws, which she

brings

> up whenever she feels the need.

> 9) Her common criticism of her children is that they are " impudent "

> and " ungrateful " and she always lets us know how she feels - that we

> never appreciate all the things she does for us.

>

> But at the same time, she is a high-functioning person who would not

> be considered mentally ill to an outside observer. When I was young

> and asked my friends growing up if their moms were really emotional

> and tough on them, they said yes, so I always assumed my mom acted

> like other moms to their children. However, after reading a lot of

> posts on this site, it seems more and more likely that she is a

nada.

> And I am starting to wonder if my dad is a NP because he loves that

> mom fawns over him for all that he does for her (and he does do

> everything around the house and takes extreme pride in his work).

He

> was also apparently quite an elitist growing up, believing he was

> smarter and more capable than his peers. So I could see how he

could

> be NPD-lite. Why is it so common to have NPD/BPD parents as a

match?

> And does this mean that my genes are seriously flawed (like would

> there be any trickle down effects on my kids)?

>

> In terms of how I cope: I have become much more aggressive as an

adult

> in pointing out the irrationality in my mom's thoughts and

arguments.

> And when she rages, I have become angry back, to the point that now

> she switches from a full-blown rage to tears in a matter of

minutes.

> When I was a child, I was too afraid of the rage, but now I feel it

is

> a duty to stand up to it. However, as my dad continues to support

her

> no matter what, I almost feel like I am losing a grip on reality and

> perhaps I am the one out of touch, when both of them tell me that I

am

> way off base. So it has been very trying on me.

>

> Thanks for any and all insight. It has definitely been helpful to

> read all the posts here.

>

> -jm

>

[Guest guest]

My MIL has BPD.

 

When I first started reasearching it, I was encouraged to read the book:

 

Stop Walking On Eggshells.

 

I highly recomend it. I am 1/2 of the way into it. The book breaks it down for

you.

 

Good Luck

 

Enjoy the support here

 

Nerak

Subject: How to Diagnose BPD?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 2:51 PM

Hey All,

I just joined this a few hours ago and have pretty much been reading

up non-stop on what people have to say. I was wondering how many here

have diagnosed BP parents and how many just assume that they are BP?

I feel that my mother is pretty close to a nada (where does that name

come from?), but how can you know for sure?

I should add my predicament: I just graduated from college and moved

back in with the parents. If my mom is BP, she is high-functioning,

so the first few months were more or less fine, but recently it has

been a mess. I have always thought that my mom lacked rationality and

was overly emotional, but now I am afraid she may have a full blown

mental illness. I was wondering, if I gave you some instances of her

behavior and explanations of her background, if anyone here could tell

me if she is a definite BP case?

Some reasons:

1) She had an extremely traumatic childhood, the details of which I

continue to learn about.

2) The driving thing - quite a few people here have mentioned this and

it really hit home. It almost seems like she's trying to get us into

a wreck when she is screaming bloody murder from the passenger seat of

the car for no apparent reason. She gets extremely worked up in cars

if anyone else is driving.

3) Splitting - definitely likes defining things in black/white

good/evil terms. Recently, she admitted it has been hard for her to

learn that " good people can do evil things, " and in general, if you

are not supportive of her, you are automatically against her.

4) Excellent at guilt-tripping. Great example: We decided to get a

family dog, and we were going to meet at the breeder's home. My

brother and I were late arriving and the parents called us and told us

not to come, saying that they had already left. We came home to find

that they had impulsively gotten two dogs (we had only ever talked

about getting one) because my mom thought they were so cute and

perfect. When she asked what I thought about them, I said " well,

they're great, but isn't it a little quick to have already picked up

two of them? " She decided that my answer was not positive enough and

that I was not appreciating her. She yelled " I did this all for you! "

(there are five members of the family and she just blatantly singled

me out) and then she ran away crying, to guilt me for not appreciating

her nice gesture that I had no say in.

5) She has intense bouts of rage that occur typically when she is

stressed, but it is never obvious what triggers it and she always

picks a single family member as the target (whom she screams at).

There never seems to be any rationality behind it.

6) She likes to be the center of attention at all times, especially at

dinner parties when she tries to dominate conversation.

7) Her only true close friend left is my father, who is still married

to her and definitely co-dependent (even if she isn't BP, I am certain

they would both be messes without one another).

8) She is flawless in her own mind, and she redirects any criticism of

her usually with some stinging criticism of you. It seems that she

has an impeccable memory of all your childhood flaws, which she brings

up whenever she feels the need.

9) Her common criticism of her children is that they are " impudent "

and " ungrateful " and she always lets us know how she feels - that we

never appreciate all the things she does for us.

But at the same time, she is a high-functioning person who would not

be considered mentally ill to an outside observer. When I was young

and asked my friends growing up if their moms were really emotional

and tough on them, they said yes, so I always assumed my mom acted

like other moms to their children. However, after reading a lot of

posts on this site, it seems more and more likely that she is a nada.

And I am starting to wonder if my dad is a NP because he loves that

mom fawns over him for all that he does for her (and he does do

everything around the house and takes extreme pride in his work). He

was also apparently quite an elitist growing up, believing he was

smarter and more capable than his peers. So I could see how he could

be NPD-lite. Why is it so common to have NPD/BPD parents as a match?

And does this mean that my genes are seriously flawed (like would

there be any trickle down effects on my kids)?

In terms of how I cope: I have become much more aggressive as an adult

in pointing out the irrationality in my mom's thoughts and arguments.

And when she rages, I have become angry back, to the point that now

she switches from a full-blown rage to tears in a matter of minutes.

When I was a child, I was too afraid of the rage, but now I feel it is

a duty to stand up to it. However, as my dad continues to support her

no matter what, I almost feel like I am losing a grip on reality and

perhaps I am the one out of touch, when both of them tell me that I am

way off base. So it has been very trying on me.

Thanks for any and all insight. It has definitely been helpful to

read all the posts here.

-jm

[Guest guest]

Hi Jk,

Welcome.

(nada = bpd mom, " not a mom " ; see the Files in this Group for more

info RE jargon)

Well, we're all just adult kids of bpds here, so we can't give you an

actual diagnosis, but from your descriptions your mother could very

well have bpd. My nada has pretty much all the behaviors you listed.

Mine has been formally diagnosed, twice, many years apart, by two

different psychologists.

If you go consult with a therapist/psychologist and give him/her your

list of behaviors, the psychologist would probably be able to make a

" diagnosis by proxy " of your mother.

I too was terrified of nada's rages when I was a kid/teen, but now

that Sister and I are adults our nada has switched over to teary

sobbing instead. Both the rages and the crying are manipulative

techniques.

The best thing you can do (in my opinion) is to not engage at all.

Stay calm, do not be baited into an argument, just say something like

" I can see that you are too upset to discuss this now, we'll talk

about it some other time. " And leave (or hang up.)

RE heritability, that is a very controversial subject and currently

there is no universally accepted stance on whether mental illnesses of

this type are inherited or not. Its still under study, and the whole

issue of genetic predisposition is highly charged with and impacted by

political and ethical questions.

There is very recent brain research that seems to indicate that the

brains of those with bpd do not register that the bpd is receiving

from a partner, in a test situation where the partners give and

receive " goods " to each other in a game. The normal/non-bpd partners'

brains light up in specific areas when they give goods, and when they

receive goods, but the bpd partners' brains only lit up when they were

giving goods.

And, there is a recent book out called " Evil Genes: Why Hitler Rose,

Rome Fell, And My Sister Stole My Mother's Boyfriend " by Barbara

Oakley. This researcher says that recent studies seem to indicate

that it has to be both nature and nurture in combination: an

individual has to be born with the set of pre-disposing genes AND be

exposed to abnormal parenting for a personality disorder to occur.

Me personally, I tend to buy this theory. It explains how my mom

could have bpd although she was raised in a relatively stable, loving

home. Her two sisters dodged the genetic bullet, but my nada did not.

A middle girl, my nada grew up feeling neglected and rejected, could

not perceive that she was being given to, wanted all the attention,

all the time, absolutely loathes and despises her older sister (whom

she says got all the attention) and claims she *and her sisters* were

beaten frequently by their dad (her sisters do not corroborate this.)

So my nada's perception of reality is skewed; she has bpd.

Whereas my dad, who grew up in terrible poverty, the man of the house

at 12 because his father abandoned his family during the depths of the

Great Depression, did not have a personality disorder. Dad, who was

idolized / nearly worshipped by his mother, aunts, and siblings, who

thought he could do no wrong, did not develop into a narcissist. He

instead became a very decent, loving, thoughtful, lovely man. He

apparently did not inherit the predisposing personality genes.

Anyway, that's my take on my family situation. I think Sister and I

got a lot of " fleas " from being raised by a bpd, but I also think we

got lucky and dodged the genetic bullet.

-Annie

>

> Hey All,

>

> I just joined this a few hours ago and have pretty much been reading

> up non-stop on what people have to say. I was wondering how many here

> have diagnosed BP parents and how many just assume that they are BP?

> I feel that my mother is pretty close to a nada (where does that name

> come from?), but how can you know for sure?

>

> I should add my predicament: I just graduated from college and moved

> back in with the parents. If my mom is BP, she is high-functioning,

> so the first few months were more or less fine, but recently it has

> been a mess. I have always thought that my mom lacked rationality and

> was overly emotional, but now I am afraid she may have a full blown

> mental illness. I was wondering, if I gave you some instances of her

> behavior and explanations of her background, if anyone here could tell

> me if she is a definite BP case?

>

> Some reasons:

>

> 1) She had an extremely traumatic childhood, the details of which I

> continue to learn about.

> 2) The driving thing - quite a few people here have mentioned this and

> it really hit home. It almost seems like she's trying to get us into

> a wreck when she is screaming bloody murder from the passenger seat of

> the car for no apparent reason. She gets extremely worked up in cars

> if anyone else is driving.

> 3) Splitting - definitely likes defining things in black/white

> good/evil terms. Recently, she admitted it has been hard for her to

> learn that " good people can do evil things, " and in general, if you

> are not supportive of her, you are automatically against her.

> 4) Excellent at guilt-tripping. Great example: We decided to get a

> family dog, and we were going to meet at the breeder's home. My

> brother and I were late arriving and the parents called us and told us

> not to come, saying that they had already left. We came home to find

> that they had impulsively gotten two dogs (we had only ever talked

> about getting one) because my mom thought they were so cute and

> perfect. When she asked what I thought about them, I said " well,

> they're great, but isn't it a little quick to have already picked up

> two of them? " She decided that my answer was not positive enough and

> that I was not appreciating her. She yelled " I did this all for you! "

> (there are five members of the family and she just blatantly singled

> me out) and then she ran away crying, to guilt me for not appreciating

> her nice gesture that I had no say in.

> 5) She has intense bouts of rage that occur typically when she is

> stressed, but it is never obvious what triggers it and she always

> picks a single family member as the target (whom she screams at).

> There never seems to be any rationality behind it.

> 6) She likes to be the center of attention at all times, especially at

> dinner parties when she tries to dominate conversation.

> 7) Her only true close friend left is my father, who is still married

> to her and definitely co-dependent (even if she isn't BP, I am certain

> they would both be messes without one another).

> 8) She is flawless in her own mind, and she redirects any criticism of

> her usually with some stinging criticism of you. It seems that she

> has an impeccable memory of all your childhood flaws, which she brings

> up whenever she feels the need.

> 9) Her common criticism of her children is that they are " impudent "

> and " ungrateful " and she always lets us know how she feels - that we

> never appreciate all the things she does for us.

>

> But at the same time, she is a high-functioning person who would not

> be considered mentally ill to an outside observer. When I was young

> and asked my friends growing up if their moms were really emotional

> and tough on them, they said yes, so I always assumed my mom acted

> like other moms to their children. However, after reading a lot of

> posts on this site, it seems more and more likely that she is a nada.

> And I am starting to wonder if my dad is a NP because he loves that

> mom fawns over him for all that he does for her (and he does do

> everything around the house and takes extreme pride in his work). He

> was also apparently quite an elitist growing up, believing he was

> smarter and more capable than his peers. So I could see how he could

> be NPD-lite. Why is it so common to have NPD/BPD parents as a match?

> And does this mean that my genes are seriously flawed (like would

> there be any trickle down effects on my kids)?

>

> In terms of how I cope: I have become much more aggressive as an adult

> in pointing out the irrationality in my mom's thoughts and arguments.

> And when she rages, I have become angry back, to the point that now

> she switches from a full-blown rage to tears in a matter of minutes.

> When I was a child, I was too afraid of the rage, but now I feel it is

> a duty to stand up to it. However, as my dad continues to support her

> no matter what, I almost feel like I am losing a grip on reality and

> perhaps I am the one out of touch, when both of them tell me that I am

> way off base. So it has been very trying on me.

>

> Thanks for any and all insight. It has definitely been helpful to

> read all the posts here.

>

> -jm

>