Re: Epsom salts do irritate

[Guest guest]

<<Someone posted that she had heard that the ES was only necessary on

the first flush or so, to make the stones start moving. I don't know

anything about that, but it's certainly interesting.>>

That was me Helge. I got that from Chang's site. Not all flush

procedures even use epsoms. I would say to just have some handy just in

case a stone decides to get stuck. laura

----- Original Message -----

From: " Helge Gundersen " <helge.gundersen@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:13 PM

Subject: Epsom salts do irritate

> This is from sci.med.nutrition -- it's a response to a question about

> taking Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) AS A SUPPLEMENT:

>

> QUOTE STARTS

> You can take some Mg as sulphate, but not a lot. I'm going from memory

> here, I think the absorption is something like 33% of the available

> Mg. That means if you want a significant dose, you're getting into the

> laxative dose range, of 1 teaspoon plus.

>

> The Mg sulph8 is a laxative primarily because it is an irritant. That

> is why it is expelled. In other words taking Mg sulph8 is irritant to

> your digestive system. That is why you can only take a limited amount.

> How much Mg are you looking to get from the sulph8?

>

> I can't remember off hand what percentage (by weight) of the sulph8 is

> Mg... perhaps someone else can. I am assuming Epsom Salts will be

> hydrated Mg So4.

>

> Regards, NT

> QUOTE ENDS

>

> ( " 8 " is obviously an abbreviation of " ate " ...)

>

> In small doses, it's just supplementation of magnesium and sulfur,

> which we need and often don't get enough of, and which we also get in

> the food (without any irritation). But in larger doses, it irritates

> the gut lining, too.

>

> This fact is NOT in opposition to the relaxing properties of

> magnesium, which are well known, experienced and studied. The point

> about " dilating the bile duct " is that the salts relaxe smooth

> muscle, including those responsible for the bile duct. But on the

> basis of the above quote, I can't see that there is a connection

> between that point and the emptying of the bowel, which appear as two

> distinct issues. It's important to know why we are using this stuff:

> do we need a digestive laxative (why?), or do we need the bile duct

> to keep wide open for the stones to pass through?

>

> Make out of it whatever you want. Personally, I think I'll take the

> salts on the second flush, too, but maybe go down to 3 tbsp. I will

> also consider trying to heal the gut for the first few days

> afterwards, like with mega doses of aloe vera. That something

> irritates enough that the bowels expel it, doesn't necessarily mean

> that the lining becomes different than before. But if it's already

> irritated, maybe it could get worse. It could also explain, although

> we can't be certain, why one of you started to feel problems after

> several flushes with extra large doses of ES...

>

> Someone posted that she had heard that the ES was only necessary on

> the first flush or so, to make the stones start moving. I don't know

> anything about that, but it's certainly interesting. No other

> details...?

>

> -- Helge

>

>

[Guest guest]

Helge,

Thank you for that very interesting article on magnesium sulphate.

I think that if it relaxes (opens) the bowels than it also relaxes

the bile ducts and every digestive organ in your body. I see the

corrilation between the two.

Even though I didn't say it, one of the online cleanses says that the

Epsom salts are usually needed only on the first cleanse to loosen up

those clinging stones in the liver and gb and then might not be

needed for the next cleanses.

I personally use it every time to relax the duct and bowel as much as

possible. In fact I use 5 tablespoons. Maybe that is too much but it

really cleans me out. :-)

Thanks again.

Barry.

> This is from sci.med.nutrition -- it's a response to a question

about

> taking Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) AS A SUPPLEMENT:

>

> QUOTE STARTS

> You can take some Mg as sulphate, but not a lot. I'm going from

memory

> here, I think the absorption is something like 33% of the available

> Mg. That means if you want a significant dose, you're getting into

the

> laxative dose range, of 1 teaspoon plus.

>

> The Mg sulph8 is a laxative primarily because it is an irritant.

That

> is why it is expelled. In other words taking Mg sulph8 is irritant

to

> your digestive system. That is why you can only take a limited

amount.

> How much Mg are you looking to get from the sulph8?

>

> I can't remember off hand what percentage (by weight) of the sulph8

is

> Mg... perhaps someone else can. I am assuming Epsom Salts will be

> hydrated Mg So4.

>

> Regards, NT

> QUOTE ENDS

>

> ( " 8 " is obviously an abbreviation of " ate " ...)

>

> In small doses, it's just supplementation of magnesium and sulfur,

> which we need and often don't get enough of, and which we also get

in

> the food (without any irritation). But in larger doses, it

irritates

> the gut lining, too.

>

> This fact is NOT in opposition to the relaxing properties of

> magnesium, which are well known, experienced and studied. The point

> about " dilating the bile duct " is that the salts relaxe smooth

> muscle, including those responsible for the bile duct. But on the

> basis of the above quote, I can't see that there is a connection

> between that point and the emptying of the bowel, which appear as

two

> distinct issues. It's important to know why we are using this

stuff:

> do we need a digestive laxative (why?), or do we need the bile duct

> to keep wide open for the stones to pass through?

>

> Make out of it whatever you want. Personally, I think I'll take the

> salts on the second flush, too, but maybe go down to 3 tbsp. I will

> also consider trying to heal the gut for the first few days

> afterwards, like with mega doses of aloe vera. That something

> irritates enough that the bowels expel it, doesn't necessarily mean

> that the lining becomes different than before. But if it's already

> irritated, maybe it could get worse. It could also explain,

although

> we can't be certain, why one of you started to feel problems after

> several flushes with extra large doses of ES...

>

> Someone posted that she had heard that the ES was only necessary on

> the first flush or so, to make the stones start moving. I don't

know

> anything about that, but it's certainly interesting. No other

> details...?

>

> -- Helge

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Well, the poster over at that newsgroup believed that the *primary*

reason for the salts giving you the runs is that it irritates the

lining, so that the salts are expelled, and I'm a bit worried if my

lining is already a bit irritated. If ES also relaxes the bowels,

this is of course analogous to relaxing the bile ducts and other

organs.

I'm wondering if maybe the ES irritates the gallbladder, so that

stones are pushsed out with the ES (just speculating).

That online source is Chang's; thanks to in her post for

that piece of info.

-- Helge

>Thank you for that very interesting article on magnesium sulphate.

>I think that if it relaxes (opens) the bowels than it also relaxes

>the bile ducts and every digestive organ in your body. I see the

>corrilation between the two.

>

>Even though I didn't say it, one of the online cleanses says that the

>Epsom salts are usually needed only on the first cleanse to loosen up

>those clinging stones in the liver and gb and then might not be

>needed for the next cleanses.

>

>I personally use it every time to relax the duct and bowel as much as

>possible. In fact I use 5 tablespoons. Maybe that is too much but it

>really cleans me out. :-)

>

>Thanks again.

>Barry.

[Guest guest]

<<that the *primary*

reason for the salts giving you the runs is that it irritates the

lining, so that the salts are expelled,>>

So would Magnesium Citrate be less irritating? I don't know the entire

makeup of the infusion, but isn't it a form of Magnesium given to women in

premature labor to stop it? It's the relaxing ability of the magnesium that

is wanted. So if the Citrate is less irritating that would seem to be a

better choice. Maybe use the Epsoms on the first and second flush just to

get the stones loosened up. Just an idea. laura

----- Original Message -----

From: " Helge Gundersen " <helge.gundersen@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:49 AM

Subject: Re: Epsom salts do irritate

> Hi,

>

> Well, the poster over at that newsgroup believed that the *primary*

> reason for the salts giving you the runs is that it irritates the

> lining, so that the salts are expelled, and I'm a bit worried if my

> lining is already a bit irritated. If ES also relaxes the bowels,

> this is of course analogous to relaxing the bile ducts and other

> organs.

>

> I'm wondering if maybe the ES irritates the gallbladder, so that

> stones are pushsed out with the ES (just speculating).

>

> That online source is Chang's; thanks to in her post for

> that piece of info.

>

> -- Helge

>

> >Thank you for that very interesting article on magnesium sulphate.

> >I think that if it relaxes (opens) the bowels than it also relaxes

> >the bile ducts and every digestive organ in your body. I see the

> >corrilation between the two.

> >

> >Even though I didn't say it, one of the online cleanses says that the

> >Epsom salts are usually needed only on the first cleanse to loosen up

> >those clinging stones in the liver and gb and then might not be

> >needed for the next cleanses.

> >

> >I personally use it every time to relax the duct and bowel as much as

> >possible. In fact I use 5 tablespoons. Maybe that is too much but it

> >really cleans me out. :-)

> >

> >Thanks again.

> >Barry.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know what's the least irritating, if you don't want that part

of it. I'm not entirely sure what irritates either, the magnesium or

the combination of magnesium and sulfur, or the sulfur. Epsom salts

are made up of magnesium and sulfur (and a little water), and

Cabot says that sulfur is good for the liver, but that's probably as

a long-term supplement, not as a part of a laxative? Some people are

irritated by ordinary magnesium capsules, but I think that's caused

by too little stomach acid.

What I do know is that magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) has lower

absorption of magnesium than those forms of magnesium used in

capsules taken for magnesium deficiency. One of these other forms is

magnesium citrate, which, of course, means that you can have more

magnesium absorbed by taking less. And a smaller amount should

irritate less than a larger, right? I don't know how much magnesium

there is in the citrate (or what " citrate " even means). According to

Agnes, about half of the Epsom salts is magnesium.

For the magnesium to relax smooth muscle, including those controlling

the bile ducts, it needs to be absorbed, as far as I can see;

irritation seems to be another matter. One can wonder how much is

absorbed if it irritates the gut lining, so that it's rapidly

expelled? Maybe this irritation only happens to those of us getting

dirrhea at 9pm on the first flush night?

-- Helge

><<that the *primary*

>reason for the salts giving you the runs is that it irritates the

>lining, so that the salts are expelled,>>

>

>So would Magnesium Citrate be less irritating? I don't know the entire

>makeup of the infusion, but isn't it a form of Magnesium given to women in

>premature labor to stop it? It's the relaxing ability of the magnesium that

>is wanted. So if the Citrate is less irritating that would seem to be a

>better choice. Maybe use the Epsoms on the first and second flush just to

>get the stones loosened up. Just an idea. laura