Re: An indicator of our own mental health

[Guest guest]

This sounded really good until I thought about it further. To go

further with the analogy about being afraid of water until you

learn to swim in it - the fact that you've learned to swim

doesn't mean the water can't hurt you any more. It means you

have a better chance of not drowning but it doesn't prevent a

flood from washing away your house or stop you from drowning

under circumstances that are too extreme for you to swim to

safety. Learning to swim should give you a healthy respect for

what water can do and knowledge about when it is safe to be in

it and when it is not. Not reacting to a nada or fada who does

evil things is better than being traumatized by them in general

but there are times when there is good reason for a sane person

to have some reaction. Nadas and fadas sometimes do more than

just say mean words and verbally abuse us. If your nada is

letting the car drift off the highway intentionally as someone

here described recently, you'd better have some kind of reaction

before you end up injured or dead. If a fada is being abusive to

your child, you need to react. If you know your nada is going to

harass you on a regular basis if you are near, living a long way

away from her sounds like a reasonable reaction to me as long as

you've chosen a place you like living and doing so doesn't

create other problems for you. Living in fear of her while she's

on the other side of the country is not a reasonable reaction on

the other hand.

I do think the general idea of what this show host says is right

though, as long as it isn't taken too far.

At 06:30 PM 12/12/2008 anuria67854 wrote:

>I heard an interesting point made on a radio talk show today,

>when a

>caller phoned in to ask the show host for help in handling her

>mother

>who has bpd. Of course that alerted my interest immediately!

>I'll paraphrase the host's answer, because I wasn't able to

>write it

>down as I heard it, but here goes:

>

> " It is a good indicator of our own mental health if we are able

>to be

>in the presence of our abusive, toxic, mentally ill parent(s)

>and

>simply see them as damaged, pathetic, broken people, and

>nothing more.

>

>The goal is neutrality: To Have No Reaction At All To Them.

>

>If you can do that, have no reaction, that means you have

>successfully

>separated from your mother and are no longer seeking validation

>or

>love from her. It means you accept that she is unable to give

>you

>those things, and you are OK with that. It means you no longer

>take

>anything she says or does personally; she can't love you, but

>neither

>can she hurt you. You react to her as the independent adult you

>are,

>not as the dependent child you were. "

>

>The host added, " You get over your fear of water by exposing

>yourself

>to water and learning to swim in it. "

>

>I found that very interesting, because I am living on the other

>side

>of the country from my nada because, I suppose, I feel I am

>still

>vulnerable to her! I must still not feel like an adult around

>her.

>

>That gave me a lot of food for thought. Hm!

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I disagree with the last thing he said. While he is correct that

being able to be in the same room as a bpd parent and have no

reaction is a sign of success, the way to get to that point is not

by exposing yourself to it. If that were true, the people who

continue to live in the same house as the borderline would magically

have all their problems wiped away.

Neutrality of emotions when exposed to a borderline parent is not a

cause, but an effect. To get to that point, we seperate ourselves

from the abuser, we spend years in therapy and in support groups,

and we try to rebuild our lives. Only then can we test our

progress. If we can obtain nuetrality of emotions when we see our

abuser, then we know we have succeeded. If not, then we continue

working on ourselves.

Unlike the fear of water, we cannot expose ourselves to the person

who abused us for so many years and expect everything to be ok.

-Rod

>

> I heard an interesting point made on a radio talk show today, when

a

> caller phoned in to ask the show host for help in handling her

mother

> who has bpd. Of course that alerted my interest immediately!

> I'll paraphrase the host's answer, because I wasn't able to write

it

> down as I heard it, but here goes:

>

> " It is a good indicator of our own mental health if we are able to

be

> in the presence of our abusive, toxic, mentally ill parent(s) and

> simply see them as damaged, pathetic, broken people, and nothing

more.

>

> The goal is neutrality: To Have No Reaction At All To Them.

>

> If you can do that, have no reaction, that means you have

successfully

> separated from your mother and are no longer seeking validation or

> love from her. It means you accept that she is unable to give you

> those things, and you are OK with that. It means you no longer

take

> anything she says or does personally; she can't love you, but

neither

> can she hurt you. You react to her as the independent adult you

are,

> not as the dependent child you were. "

>

> The host added, " You get over your fear of water by exposing

yourself

> to water and learning to swim in it. "

>

> I found that very interesting, because I am living on the other

side

> of the country from my nada because, I suppose, I feel I am still

> vulnerable to her! I must still not feel like an adult around her.

>

> That gave me a lot of food for thought. Hm!

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Grace,

I feel very much the same when it comes to denial. For many years, I was

convinced I had

mental disorder and nada was the greatest, most sacrificial mother on earth....

When my

therapist suggested nada might have BPD... i found it so hard to believe... i

even tried to

convince my therapist that I am the one with BPD.... i feel easier to accept my

own mental

illness than to accept being a victim child of nada's mental illness... i guess

in a way, i feel

more in control when I am the sick one, rather than nada, who's much harder to

influence/change... and it did take baby steps... to comes to terms with that...

and i'm still

working on it....

> > >

> > > I heard an interesting point made on a radio talk show today,

> when

> > a

> > > caller phoned in to ask the show host for help in handling her

> > mother

> > > who has bpd. Of course that alerted my interest immediately!

> > > I'll paraphrase the host's answer, because I wasn't able to write

> > it

> > > down as I heard it, but here goes:

> > >

> > > " It is a good indicator of our own mental health if we are able

> to

> > be

> > > in the presence of our abusive, toxic, mentally ill parent(s) and

> > > simply see them as damaged, pathetic, broken people, and nothing

> > more.

> > >

> > > The goal is neutrality: To Have No Reaction At All To Them.

> > >

> > > If you can do that, have no reaction, that means you have

> > successfully

> > > separated from your mother and are no longer seeking validation or

> > > love from her. It means you accept that she is unable to give you

> > > those things, and you are OK with that. It means you no longer

> > take

> > > anything she says or does personally; she can't love you, but

> > neither

> > > can she hurt you. You react to her as the independent adult you

> > are,

> > > not as the dependent child you were. "

> > >

> > > The host added, " You get over your fear of water by exposing

> > yourself

> > > to water and learning to swim in it. "

> > >

> > > I found that very interesting, because I am living on the other

> > side

> > > of the country from my nada because, I suppose, I feel I am still

> > > vulnerable to her! I must still not feel like an adult around

> her.

> > >

> > > That gave me a lot of food for thought. Hm!

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think this is a great theory and one I subscribe to in my own life, but I

don't think it works in every situation - like when people talk about their

nadas trying to take their kids or things like that. My father only tends

to act out if I am in his sphere or if I " take his bait " . In that case, I

can learn much about myself by not reacting when he is doing his best to get

a reaction!

I'll let ya know when I perfect this.... ;-)

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:30 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> I heard an interesting point made on a radio talk show today, when a

> caller phoned in to ask the show host for help in handling her mother

> who has bpd. Of course that alerted my interest immediately!

> I'll paraphrase the host's answer, because I wasn't able to write it

> down as I heard it, but here goes:

>

> " It is a good indicator of our own mental health if we are able to be

> in the presence of our abusive, toxic, mentally ill parent(s) and

> simply see them as damaged, pathetic, broken people, and nothing more.

>

> The goal is neutrality: To Have No Reaction At All To Them.

>

> If you can do that, have no reaction, that means you have successfully

> separated from your mother and are no longer seeking validation or

> love from her. It means you accept that she is unable to give you

> those things, and you are OK with that. It means you no longer take

> anything she says or does personally; she can't love you, but neither

> can she hurt you. You react to her as the independent adult you are,

> not as the dependent child you were. "

>

> The host added, " You get over your fear of water by exposing yourself

> to water and learning to swim in it. "

>

> I found that very interesting, because I am living on the other side

> of the country from my nada because, I suppose, I feel I am still

> vulnerable to her! I must still not feel like an adult around her.

>

> That gave me a lot of food for thought. Hm!

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Point well taken; sometimes nada's verbal attacks do leave me feeling

emotionally assaulted. And I do fear her acquiring a gun, as she has

stated she wants to. Perhaps the radio talk show host's " learn to

swim " analogy isn't as relevant/useful as it first appeared.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I heard an interesting point made on a radio talk show today, when

> > a

> > > caller phoned in to ask the show host for help in handling her

> > mother

> > > who has bpd. Of course that alerted my interest immediately!

> > > I'll paraphrase the host's answer, because I wasn't able to write

> > it

> > > down as I heard it, but here goes:

> > >

> > > " It is a good indicator of our own mental health if we are able to

> > be

> > > in the presence of our abusive, toxic, mentally ill parent(s) and

> > > simply see them as damaged, pathetic, broken people, and nothing

> > more.

> > >

> > > The goal is neutrality: To Have No Reaction At All To Them.

> > >

> > > If you can do that, have no reaction, that means you have

> > successfully

> > > separated from your mother and are no longer seeking validation or

> > > love from her. It means you accept that she is unable to give you

> > > those things, and you are OK with that. It means you no longer

> > take

> > > anything she says or does personally; she can't love you, but

> > neither

> > > can she hurt you. You react to her as the independent adult you

> > are,

> > > not as the dependent child you were. "

> > >

> > > The host added, " You get over your fear of water by exposing

> > yourself

> > > to water and learning to swim in it. "

> > >

> > > I found that very interesting, because I am living on the other

> > side

> > > of the country from my nada because, I suppose, I feel I am still

> > > vulnerable to her! I must still not feel like an adult around her.

> > >

> > > That gave me a lot of food for thought. Hm!

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I really think there was some good stuff in what the host had to say.

I think feeling that emotional neutrality is a good goal to have. I

guess it would be a matter of figuring out how one gets there. I

think it's great to have that as your ultimate goal though, and I'm

glad you brought it up.

-Deanna

> > > >

> > > > I heard an interesting point made on a radio talk show today,

when

> > > a

> > > > caller phoned in to ask the show host for help in handling her

> > > mother

> > > > who has bpd. Of course that alerted my interest immediately!

> > > > I'll paraphrase the host's answer, because I wasn't able to write

> > > it

> > > > down as I heard it, but here goes:

> > > >

> > > > " It is a good indicator of our own mental health if we are

able to

> > > be

> > > > in the presence of our abusive, toxic, mentally ill parent(s) and

> > > > simply see them as damaged, pathetic, broken people, and nothing

> > > more.

> > > >

> > > > The goal is neutrality: To Have No Reaction At All To Them.

> > > >

> > > > If you can do that, have no reaction, that means you have

> > > successfully

> > > > separated from your mother and are no longer seeking validation or

> > > > love from her. It means you accept that she is unable to give you

> > > > those things, and you are OK with that. It means you no longer

> > > take

> > > > anything she says or does personally; she can't love you, but

> > > neither

> > > > can she hurt you. You react to her as the independent adult you

> > > are,

> > > > not as the dependent child you were. "

> > > >

> > > > The host added, " You get over your fear of water by exposing

> > > yourself

> > > > to water and learning to swim in it. "

> > > >

> > > > I found that very interesting, because I am living on the other

> > > side

> > > > of the country from my nada because, I suppose, I feel I am still

> > > > vulnerable to her! I must still not feel like an adult around

her.

> > > >

> > > > That gave me a lot of food for thought. Hm!

> > > >

> > > > -Annie

> > > >

> > >

> >

>