paranoia

[Guest guest]

I'm NC with my nada save for a couple family things a year. Since the

day I hung up on her, I have been terrified of her and of my father

and any familial retribution.

She sent a Christmas card to my house for my BF whom she has met twice

and only knows by first name. I was going to hide it from him, but

she put $100 in it. So now what?

So I thought, if I give it to him, he'll have to write her a thank you

and then she'll have his address and then she'll get his number and

then she'll call him and then he'll feel bad for her and then he'll

ask me to talk to her and then it'll drive a wedge between us and then

we'll break up.

Whew.

So then my life coach suggested what if I just let people do what they

do and stop trying to control them (and stop living in fear). Stop

trying to protect my BF. I'm not trying to protect *him* I say, I'm

protecting *me*. I was pissed, and I told him he doesn't know how

it's different with a mentally ill person, and how the rules don't apply.

THEN I thought about it and I told my BF that he could do whatever he

wanted with it, but my fear was that she wanted to manipulate him in

this way. He's pretty naive about stuff like that and he said he

never would have seen it like she was trying to do that. He said we

could decide what to do together.

As I thought about it, here's the kicker: My big fear is that she is

the one person who knows I'm BAD, from birth, to the core, not

deserving. I'm standing back as she badmouths me to family members

and doing very little to defend myself and try to be the bigger

person. But I thought *he is MY boyfriend* and I'm not going to let

you convince him I'm bad so he'll leave me. Like my mother knows the

secret of my inherent evilness and I don't want him to learn it.

Total BS of course, but wow, was I surprised to find that lingering

down there.

-Deanna

>

> Hi friends,

> Ihave been NC for about three years now, and I often go for a long

> time without thinking about the FOO, or BPD. This group and everyone

> on it was so important to me in critical stages of my recovery, and

> it's good to know I can leave and then always come back whenever I

> need to.

>

> I recently checked in with my T, about something else that was going

> on . I hadn't talked with him in about 6 months, and besides the

> other stuff I wanted to ask him about, I also happened to mention

> some of my fears regarding the FOO. My T said that I am so fearful

> that I am almost paranoid. He said the FOO really can't touch me

> now. I had expressed to my T that I am so afraid of the FOO,

> especially my nada, being able to take away the life I have built for

> myself, that I cancelled a planned visit from an old family friend

> whom I like very much and who helped and supported me when I first

> found out about BPD but who is also still in touch with nada and

> fada. This family friend was planning to visit me with her husband

> and stay a few days. We had been planning the visit for months, and

> at the last moment, I got really scared. Her husband doesn't always

> really get the dynamics between me and my FOO. I got really really

> scared, specifically thinking that if he took a picture of us outside

> or something, and showed that picture to the FOO, then the FOO would

> know where I live. Because of this fear, I had asked my friend to

> cancel her trip,giving her some other excuse (too much work to have

> visitors, unexpected extra work on those days... ).

>

> My T said that I was paranoid, because in today's age, anyone can

> find out on the internet where anyone lives in a matter of minutes.

> I hadn't thought about that. I guess I can't control what nada knows

> about me. I also am afraid of being in contact with other members of

> the extended FOO, because I am afraid of what they might tell nada.

>

> It's so much fear for me. My whole life and the way I live my life

> is still filled with fear, although I have been NC for three years

> now. There were just SO MANY Times in the past, when nada would ruin

> relationships I had with boyfriends because she was afraid of being

> abandoned. Successes I had at work, or successes I had in life, she

> found ways to ruin it for me. She insulted me and tore me apart at

> my vulnerabilities.

>

> It goes against everything I have ever experienced to think that

> maybe Nada is going to leave me alone now. My T suggested that she

> just might leave me alone, that she gets the message that I want her

> and the FOO out of my life. I just can't trust that. I can't

> believe that my life is really mine, and that she can't take away

> from me the life that I have built now. I have so much fear of the

> past. I really feel like, even after three years of NC and a lot of

> happiness and success and wonderful people in my life, that nada

> could at any time appear and the other shoe would drop, and I would

> go back to living in hell and everything would be taken from me.

> Nada took so much from me. Anytime I was happy growing up, she took

> it from me. Why would I be able to be happy now?

>

> I need a reality check from those who understand. Am I being

> paranoid? Could nada mess up my life now, or am I safe? Is it okay

> to feel safe??? I am so afraid, that as soon as I let my guard

> down, nada will be there tearing apart my life. SO SCARED.

>

> Also, does anyone else feel the same fear I do ??

>

> Many blessings to you in this holiday season.,

> Your friend,

> " walking to " .

>

[Guest guest]

It IS hard to overcome beliefs we've been conditioned, trained,

brainwashed to accept by the one person in our lives on whom we were

dependent for so many years to tell us, literally, who we are: our

mothers.

(or, God forbid, both parents and/or other relatives.)

It is truly tragic that we here were abjectly, wholly and utterly

dependent on an insane person, at the most vulnerable time of our lives.

The damage they've done is bone-deep; its almost at the level of

saying, " If I just try hard enough, I can grow another arm... I know

it! " Its deep and just about that irrational.

Something that works for me is to keep telling myself, " My mother is

insane. She is mentally ill. She is completely effing crazy, so what

she thinks about me is totally irrelevant. I do not care what she

thinks, anymore. She is banished from my circle of concern. "

In order to overcome the debilitating fear, you might want to try

accessing your anger. Give it a shot, maybe it will work for you.

Nadas train us to not show anger, so we bury it deep.

Here's a virtual exercise to help you access your anger: When you

start feeling afraid of big, scary nada, imagine that you are watching

you nada beating and kicking and choking a little puppy. Most people

can instantly access righteous anger, outrage even, when they see a

sweet little animal being abused. Imagine watching your nada hurt the

puppy, and its screaming in pain and terror, and you grow angrier than

you've ever been, and you rush over to nada, snatch the puppy out of

her grip, and yell in her face, " HOW DARE YOU, YOU MONSTER! STOP IT!

GET OUT OF HERE! " And then watch nada back away, shrunken in size,

unable to hurt the puppy anymore because you are protecting it.

Allowing myself to scream in anger at nada (virtually, meaning, I'm

alone but really yelling at the top of my lungs) for doing something

so obviously evil and hateful and abusive is very cathartic, to me

anyway.

Life is too short to go through it in abject terror, living like a

hunted animal, waiting in dread for nada to appear. All us KOs

deserve to feel joy, and the freedom to think our own thoughts without

worrying about what nada will think or do.

Ding, dong: the Witch is dead!

-Annie

> >

> > Hi friends,

> > Ihave been NC for about three years now, and I often go for a long

> > time without thinking about the FOO, or BPD. This group and everyone

> > on it was so important to me in critical stages of my recovery, and

> > it's good to know I can leave and then always come back whenever I

> > need to.

> >

> > I recently checked in with my T, about something else that was going

> > on . I hadn't talked with him in about 6 months, and besides the

> > other stuff I wanted to ask him about, I also happened to mention

> > some of my fears regarding the FOO. My T said that I am so fearful

> > that I am almost paranoid. He said the FOO really can't touch me

> > now. I had expressed to my T that I am so afraid of the FOO,

> > especially my nada, being able to take away the life I have built for

> > myself, that I cancelled a planned visit from an old family friend

> > whom I like very much and who helped and supported me when I first

> > found out about BPD but who is also still in touch with nada and

> > fada. This family friend was planning to visit me with her husband

> > and stay a few days. We had been planning the visit for months, and

> > at the last moment, I got really scared. Her husband doesn't always

> > really get the dynamics between me and my FOO. I got really really

> > scared, specifically thinking that if he took a picture of us outside

> > or something, and showed that picture to the FOO, then the FOO would

> > know where I live. Because of this fear, I had asked my friend to

> > cancel her trip,giving her some other excuse (too much work to have

> > visitors, unexpected extra work on those days... ).

> >

> > My T said that I was paranoid, because in today's age, anyone can

> > find out on the internet where anyone lives in a matter of minutes.

> > I hadn't thought about that. I guess I can't control what nada knows

> > about me. I also am afraid of being in contact with other members of

> > the extended FOO, because I am afraid of what they might tell nada.

> >

> > It's so much fear for me. My whole life and the way I live my life

> > is still filled with fear, although I have been NC for three years

> > now. There were just SO MANY Times in the past, when nada would ruin

> > relationships I had with boyfriends because she was afraid of being

> > abandoned. Successes I had at work, or successes I had in life, she

> > found ways to ruin it for me. She insulted me and tore me apart at

> > my vulnerabilities.

> >

> > It goes against everything I have ever experienced to think that

> > maybe Nada is going to leave me alone now. My T suggested that she

> > just might leave me alone, that she gets the message that I want her

> > and the FOO out of my life. I just can't trust that. I can't

> > believe that my life is really mine, and that she can't take away

> > from me the life that I have built now. I have so much fear of the

> > past. I really feel like, even after three years of NC and a lot of

> > happiness and success and wonderful people in my life, that nada

> > could at any time appear and the other shoe would drop, and I would

> > go back to living in hell and everything would be taken from me.

> > Nada took so much from me. Anytime I was happy growing up, she took

> > it from me. Why would I be able to be happy now?

> >

> > I need a reality check from those who understand. Am I being

> > paranoid? Could nada mess up my life now, or am I safe? Is it okay

> > to feel safe??? I am so afraid, that as soon as I let my guard

> > down, nada will be there tearing apart my life. SO SCARED.

> >

> > Also, does anyone else feel the same fear I do ??

> >

> > Many blessings to you in this holiday season.,

> > Your friend,

> > " walking to " .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---

I certainly understand what you're saying. I know that my nada has

destroyed relationships, or tried to, anyway, involving my sister and

I. As I've gotten older (43), I have less of this kind of fear. For

example, my nada loves to keep up with everyone's birthdays and send

cards (and often inappropriate amounts of money). She does this with

her and my F's extended family, her former co-worker's, people from

church, etc. She used to ask for several of my friends' addresses.

I wouldn't let her have them. I didn't want her to interfere with

these relationships. After my divorce, I was afraid she would keep

in touch with my former in-laws, but she didn't. I do suspect,

however, that she has managed to sour one of my longterm friendships,

by smearing me to this friend, M. Nada " innocently " corresponded with

M. after meeting her at my wedding, then sent gifts (inappropriate)

to her after her children were born. All of which looks so nice to

outsiders. I think that M. has her own issues re: loyalty to a

father who had " issues " , so that is why my M was able to smear me to

her. This may all be paranoia, but a friend with whom I used to be

close (we live several states away), I now hardly ever hear from. And

I fear confrontation too much to address it with M as of yet.

I have another friend from childhood, and our parents/relatives talk

to one another. Sometimes my nada triangulates thru these people,

and I need to tell my friend to stop it, but I haven't done so yet,

b/c my friend doesn't quite " get it. " She sees nada as more innocent

than she is, and may also kind of enjoy the drama (NPD?).

Anyway, I say all this to say that maybe some of your fears are

valid. These people are scary. Maybe some of your fears are

overboard and some are not. Maybe you could discuss your actual

fears with your friend, who was to visit. But we need to protect

ourselves from these people, and sometimes maybe we need to be a

little paranoid. Unless someone has been affected by them, it's very

hard for them to get it. My nada has done some painful, hurtful

things which looked innocent and harmless to outsiders.

I don't think I've answered your question. But I wanted to validate

your fears. Overall, I don't think she could ruin your life, but she

could try to stir up some drama. And I doubt that she would

ever " just accept " that you want her out of her life. BUT, what can

she realistically do to you? Maybe you should be more specific about

your fears in a worst-case scenario type list...if she did X, what

could I do?...and so on.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " walkingto_happiness "

wrote:

>

> Hi friends,

> Ihave been NC for about three years now, and I often go for a long

> time without thinking about the FOO, or BPD. This group and

everyone

> on it was so important to me in critical stages of my recovery, and

> it's good to know I can leave and then always come back whenever I

> need to.

>

> I recently checked in with my T, about something else that was

going

> on . I hadn't talked with him in about 6 months, and besides the

> other stuff I wanted to ask him about, I also happened to mention

> some of my fears regarding the FOO. My T said that I am so fearful

> that I am almost paranoid. He said the FOO really can't touch me

> now. I had expressed to my T that I am so afraid of the FOO,

> especially my nada, being able to take away the life I have built

for

> myself, that I cancelled a planned visit from an old family friend

> whom I like very much and who helped and supported me when I first

> found out about BPD but who is also still in touch with nada and

> fada. This family friend was planning to visit me with her

husband

> and stay a few days. We had been planning the visit for months,

and

> at the last moment, I got really scared. Her husband doesn't

always

> really get the dynamics between me and my FOO. I got really really

> scared, specifically thinking that if he took a picture of us

outside

> or something, and showed that picture to the FOO, then the FOO

would

> know where I live. Because of this fear, I had asked my friend to

> cancel her trip,giving her some other excuse (too much work to have

> visitors, unexpected extra work on those days... ).

>

> My T said that I was paranoid, because in today's age, anyone can

> find out on the internet where anyone lives in a matter of

minutes.

> I hadn't thought about that. I guess I can't control what nada

knows

> about me. I also am afraid of being in contact with other members

of

> the extended FOO, because I am afraid of what they might tell nada.

>

> It's so much fear for me. My whole life and the way I live my life

> is still filled with fear, although I have been NC for three years

> now. There were just SO MANY Times in the past, when nada would

ruin

> relationships I had with boyfriends because she was afraid of being

> abandoned. Successes I had at work, or successes I had in life,

she

> found ways to ruin it for me. She insulted me and tore me apart at

> my vulnerabilities.

>

> It goes against everything I have ever experienced to think that

> maybe Nada is going to leave me alone now. My T suggested that

she

> just might leave me alone, that she gets the message that I want

her

> and the FOO out of my life. I just can't trust that. I can't

> believe that my life is really mine, and that she can't take away

> from me the life that I have built now. I have so much fear of the

> past. I really feel like, even after three years of NC and a lot

of

> happiness and success and wonderful people in my life, that nada

> could at any time appear and the other shoe would drop, and I would

> go back to living in hell and everything would be taken from me.

> Nada took so much from me. Anytime I was happy growing up, she

took

> it from me. Why would I be able to be happy now?

>

> I need a reality check from those who understand. Am I being

> paranoid? Could nada mess up my life now, or am I safe? Is it

okay

> to feel safe??? I am so afraid, that as soon as I let my guard

> down, nada will be there tearing apart my life. SO SCARED.

>

> Also, does anyone else feel the same fear I do ??

>

> Many blessings to you in this holiday season.,

> Your friend,

> " walking to " .

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, paranoia! When I was in contact with her, my nada seemed to

actually enjoy hurting me, especially if it was in a small, petty

indirect way that could be seen as " accidental. " But be sure: she'd do

it deliberately.

For example, I noticed that when I'd arrive for a Christmas visit, my

nada selected out of her huge collection o' Christmas stuff to a table

decoration that a mutual friend of ours had made for nada many years

ago. Nada knew that this person and I were no longer friends, which

saddened and upset me because we'd been friends since childhood.

Nada would make efforts to draw my attention to the decoration, and if

she caught me looking at it, she'd mention " " . " Oh, you know,

made that for me; how is ? " nada would ask innocently (again)

and I'd have to remind nada (again) that I was not in any contact at

all with " " anymore.

" " had become enraged with me when I hurt her feelings (long

story, I was not blameless, but I was sorry and did apologize.) But

did not forgive me, and instead stalked and harassed me on the

Internet for 2 years, threatened to show up at places I'd be at, and

was certifiably insane.

So, yes, I think our nadas rather specialize in instilling paranoia in

us, at least as far as they, themselves are concerned. I don't *think*

nada wants to hurt me, I *know* she does, its just a matter of where,

when, and how much. So, I'm not fooled by her " nice " phases anymore:

they are a mask.

No Contact seems to be the only thing that works for me.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi friends,

> > Ihave been NC for about three years now, and I often go for a long

> > time without thinking about the FOO, or BPD. This group and

> everyone

> > on it was so important to me in critical stages of my recovery, and

> > it's good to know I can leave and then always come back whenever I

> > need to.

> >

> > I recently checked in with my T, about something else that was

> going

> > on . I hadn't talked with him in about 6 months, and besides the

> > other stuff I wanted to ask him about, I also happened to mention

> > some of my fears regarding the FOO. My T said that I am so fearful

> > that I am almost paranoid. He said the FOO really can't touch me

> > now. I had expressed to my T that I am so afraid of the FOO,

> > especially my nada, being able to take away the life I have built

> for

> > myself, that I cancelled a planned visit from an old family friend

> > whom I like very much and who helped and supported me when I first

> > found out about BPD but who is also still in touch with nada and

> > fada. This family friend was planning to visit me with her

> husband

> > and stay a few days. We had been planning the visit for months,

> and

> > at the last moment, I got really scared. Her husband doesn't

> always

> > really get the dynamics between me and my FOO. I got really really

> > scared, specifically thinking that if he took a picture of us

> outside

> > or something, and showed that picture to the FOO, then the FOO

> would

> > know where I live. Because of this fear, I had asked my friend to

> > cancel her trip,giving her some other excuse (too much work to have

> > visitors, unexpected extra work on those days... ).

> >

> > My T said that I was paranoid, because in today's age, anyone can

> > find out on the internet where anyone lives in a matter of

> minutes.

> > I hadn't thought about that. I guess I can't control what nada

> knows

> > about me. I also am afraid of being in contact with other members

> of

> > the extended FOO, because I am afraid of what they might tell nada.

> >

> > It's so much fear for me. My whole life and the way I live my life

> > is still filled with fear, although I have been NC for three years

> > now. There were just SO MANY Times in the past, when nada would

> ruin

> > relationships I had with boyfriends because she was afraid of being

> > abandoned. Successes I had at work, or successes I had in life,

> she

> > found ways to ruin it for me. She insulted me and tore me apart at

> > my vulnerabilities.

> >

> > It goes against everything I have ever experienced to think that

> > maybe Nada is going to leave me alone now. My T suggested that

> she

> > just might leave me alone, that she gets the message that I want

> her

> > and the FOO out of my life. I just can't trust that. I can't

> > believe that my life is really mine, and that she can't take away

> > from me the life that I have built now. I have so much fear of the

> > past. I really feel like, even after three years of NC and a lot

> of

> > happiness and success and wonderful people in my life, that nada

> > could at any time appear and the other shoe would drop, and I would

> > go back to living in hell and everything would be taken from me.

> > Nada took so much from me. Anytime I was happy growing up, she

> took

> > it from me. Why would I be able to be happy now?

> >

> > I need a reality check from those who understand. Am I being

> > paranoid? Could nada mess up my life now, or am I safe? Is it

> okay

> > to feel safe??? I am so afraid, that as soon as I let my guard

> > down, nada will be there tearing apart my life. SO SCARED.

> >

> > Also, does anyone else feel the same fear I do ??

> >

> > Many blessings to you in this holiday season.,

> > Your friend,

> > " walking to " .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

anuria, your post was helpful to me today. Especially the self talk.

Yesterday, nada's mental illness became painfully apparent during a

phone call from her to me...

She asked me if I was mad at her for something. Well, we all know

where that goes...but I was feeling sad and needy so I did something a

little different ~ I tried to talk to her about my feelings. God,

what a mess. It was one of the most confusing and difficult

conversations I've ever had with her. It was stupid, I know...there

isnt' anything I can actually say to " fix " things. Mental illness

doesn't have a fix.

I ended up trying to convey the message that I was going through a

rough patch and I hope to have it sorted out soon. God knows she

didn't hear anything I said about her behavior. It was the most

insane conversation...so bizarre. Just one example (Though you all

have your own.) I told nada that I could no longer do the " rescue "

thing when she was ill because of my health problems and thats' why I

didn't come to her house or hospital when she had her latest crisis.

She didn't miss a beat, she says, " oh, no honey, you have to take care

of yourself, I understand that. " Followed immediately by a story about

the ambulance drivers who came to help her made her walk outside

without any pants on during the day in the freezing cold. And then

they made her stand there in the driveway so all the neighbors could

see her. Then they made her crawl onto the gurney without any help

and it was the MOST humiliating and degrading experience of her life!

WHAT????? How does that go with her understanding I have to take

care of myself. Oh my god!

The conversation was like that all the way through.

She has a mental illness and she can't be a mother to me the way I am

to my children. I've made myself sick by trying to get her to love

me. When I told her that fibromyalgia was MY disease and I'm doing a

good job of managing it, she said sure it is yours, honey. And it is

MINE too because I'm the mama. Huh??

The good news is that I finally called my therapist who I haven't seen

in a year and I'm going in on Monday! Thank god. I need help bad. I

felt such a relief after I made the appointment.

So two steps forward, one step back, and a giant leap to mental health

April

>

> It IS hard to overcome beliefs we've been conditioned, trained,

> brainwashed to accept by the one person in our lives on whom we were

> dependent for so many years to tell us, literally, who we are: our

> mothers.

>

> (or, God forbid, both parents and/or other relatives.)

>

> It is truly tragic that we here were abjectly, wholly and utterly

> dependent on an insane person, at the most vulnerable time of our lives.

>

> The damage they've done is bone-deep; its almost at the level of

> saying, " If I just try hard enough, I can grow another arm... I know

> it! " Its deep and just about that irrational.

>

> Something that works for me is to keep telling myself, " My mother is

> insane. She is mentally ill. She is completely effing crazy, so what

> she thinks about me is totally irrelevant. I do not care what she

> thinks, anymore. She is banished from my circle of concern. "

>

[Guest guest]

At 01:27 PM 12/05/2008 walkingto_happiness wrote:

>I recently checked in with my T, about something else that was

>going on . I hadn't talked with him in about 6 months, and

>besides the other stuff I wanted to ask him about, I also

>happened to mention some of my fears regarding the FOO. My T

>said that I am so fearful that I am almost paranoid. He said

>the FOO really can't touch me now. I had expressed to my T

>that I am so afraid of the FOO, especially my nada, being able

>to take away the life I have built for myself, that I cancelled

>a planned visit from an old family friend whom I like very much

>and who helped and supported me when I first found out about

>BPD but who is also still in touch with nada and fada.

Paranoia involves being thinking they're out to get you without

good cause. You have good cause to worry about your nada's

behavior. That being said, I think that cancelling your friend's

visit was probably being overly fearful. If you have genuine

cause to worry that her husband might pass information to your

nada, that is a valid fear but I think you probably could have

managed to deal with that possibility without cancelling the

visit. I think it is overly optimistic on your T's part to say

that she really can't touch you now. You just have to look at

the stories that other people have told here to see the lengths

that nadas will go to to interfere with their adult children's

lives. They're crazy and crazy people behave in ways that the

rest of us would never do.

>My T said that I was paranoid, because in today's age, anyone

>can find out on the internet where anyone lives in a matter of

>minutes. I hadn't thought about that. I guess I can't control

>what nada knows about me. I also am afraid of being in contact

>with other members of the extended FOO, because I am afraid of

>what they might tell nada.

I think that saying anyone can find information about anyone

else in a matter of minutes is exagerating. Sometimes that is

the case. Sometimes it isn't. If you're listed in the phone

book, that information is extremely easy to get online. If you

have an unlisted number and have been careful not to give out

your address anywhere online, it can take a lot more effort for

someone to find you. If your nada isn't skilled in internet

searching, she might not be able to find you at all. She also

might not even think to try looking for you that way even if you

are easily findable.

If you are letting your fear of your nada prevent you from being

in contact with other people who you care about and who've

treated you decently in the past, I think you're letting her

win.

>My T suggested that she just might leave me alone, that she

>gets the message that I want her and the FOO out of my life. I

>just can't trust that.

Does your T have any experience with BPD? People with BPD don't

get that message as far as I can tell.

>I need a reality check from those who understand. Am I being

>paranoid? Could nada mess up my life now, or am I safe? Is it

>okay to feel safe??? I am so afraid, that as soon as I let my

>guard down, nada will be there tearing apart my life. SO

>SCARED.

First, you're the one who has experience with your nada and how

far she is likely to go to get at you. I'd say she certainly

could do things to mess up your life now, but whether she

actually will or not is another question. After three years she

may well have found someone else to bother. Or she might be just

waiting to get another chance to get to you. By causing you to

be afraid this way she's effectively getting to you without ever

lifting a finger anyway though. My recommendation is to stop

living in fear this way and deal with each potential problem one

at a time. Try to take concrete steps to resolve your fears. If

you're worried about her finding you, check to see how easy it

is to find information by using Google to search for your name.

You might want to take steps to get your personal information

removed from any websites that come up showing it. Depending on

where it shows up, that may be fairly easy or may be almost

impossible. If you want to be in contact with other family

members, find ways to do so without giving them information

they'll pass on. Don't treat them all like they've wronged you

just because they could pass on something. Post office boxes are

very good for getting mail without giving out your actual

location by the way. Living in fear constantly isn't healthy

mentally or physically. Taking control over your life is much

more satisfying.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hi April,

Yes, reclaiming our original, authentic selves is a gradual process,

and sometimes we make progress and sometimes we don't. But like

anything worthwhile, its worth the effort.

Personality Disorder traits that I think do the most damage:

Spooky, creepy lack of empathy:

That is supposed to be a narcissistic trait rather than a borderline

trait, but my nada has always tended to treat Sister and me as if we

have no feelings at all. That says to the child, " You do not exist as

an individual, you are merely my property, and you have no rights. "

Arrogant sense of entitlement:

All nada wants is to be instantly obeyed, without question.

Only nada's needs and wishes are real and important. I think this also

feeds into many nadas' passive-aggressive acts of revenge that often

target children.

Rapid, unpredictable mood swings:

I think this is the trait that results in the most assault and battery

of children, as we read in the excerpt of the novel written by a bpd.

And, living in a virtual POW camp is severely stressful: never

knowing when the next rage is coming, or the next blow or the next

humiliation, or the next abandonment. An unstable, unpredictable,

enraged, frightening mother or an emotionally detached, negligent, or

literally absent mother can actually re-wire a child's brain to be

hyper-vigilant, or conversely, to dissociate from their overwhelming

feelings of terror or despair and become numb and passive.

Now that we are adults and not tiny, defenseless children, we now have

the ability to rescue ourselves, have our own lives and feel our own

feelings, but sometimes it seems about as hard to do that as it is to

re-grow a missing arm.

*That's* how much damage bpd parenting is capable of: a bpd parent has

the potential to cripple us for life. We have to actively take the

controls of our own lives, stop them from damaging us any further, and

prevent them from even starting the process with our own small,

trusting, innocent little children.

-Annie

> >

> > It IS hard to overcome beliefs we've been conditioned, trained,

> > brainwashed to accept by the one person in our lives on whom we were

> > dependent for so many years to tell us, literally, who we are: our

> > mothers.

> >

> > (or, God forbid, both parents and/or other relatives.)

> >

> > It is truly tragic that we here were abjectly, wholly and utterly

> > dependent on an insane person, at the most vulnerable time of our

lives.

> >

> > The damage they've done is bone-deep; its almost at the level of

> > saying, " If I just try hard enough, I can grow another arm... I know

> > it! " Its deep and just about that irrational.

> >

> > Something that works for me is to keep telling myself, " My mother is

> > insane. She is mentally ill. She is completely effing crazy, so what

> > she thinks about me is totally irrelevant. I do not care what she

> > thinks, anymore. She is banished from my circle of concern. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you ,group, for your thoughts and experiences. It is really validating to

know that I am not the only one who has had to really examine interactions with

other people, relationships that would be really effortless under normal

circumstances. I am so grateful to have this group to go to at any time for

validation and advice and reality checks, because only you understand what it is

really like. I especially liked the replies where you wrote how you've been in

my shoes, and how valid our fears are. It is easy for someone looking in from

the outside, someone who has never experienced BPD, and especially someone who

has never experienced being raised by a BP for decades, to underestimate our

fears.

My fears are really real to me. I can't just override them. Maybe they

border on the side of paranoia, but after everything I have been through, I

would rather be safe than sorry. Maybe someday in the future, I can try to work

on having less fear, but right now, my fears are really real to me, and I often

can only trust myself and a few small number of others. I have pushed away a

lot of the people who knew me when I was coming up, but they still have contact

with my FOO, and I just don't feel safe and I don't trust them that I can be

myself and talk freely around them. The cost of worrying whether what I say and

share about myself would get back to nada in triangles and rectangles of

manipulation, is a stress I just don't have energy for anymore. I have survived

so much! If I could just rest a little, and feel a little safety from time to

time...

Sometimes I get down, because I think of all the people in my life that I have

lost or pushed away since I first found out about BPD and understood my FOO

dynamics. But, then I have gained people and friends on this path to healing.

Although I may never know your faces, your words are very real to me and have

helped me immensely on this path to healing, and I consider all of you on this

list as very valuable friends to me, and I want you to know that your suffering

and telling of it has aleviated mine from time to time.

Maybe years from now, I could see some of my fears thawing and melting away.

How long does the healing take? Probably the rest of my life. I don't think

someone who hasn't lived a BP FOO could understand how profound the damage to

us-who-have-survived can be.

I hold you in the light this holiday season,

Walking to.

From you friend

" WALKING TO HAPPINESS " .

May we all walk towards happiness...

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I was reading about yout fears and they mirror mine. My T told me to be very

careful and not let my nada have my address or phone number, as these are tools

she could use to destroy my life once again. as with you she managed to destroy

all of my achievements in ways that have left me feeling like a failure, and I

too cancelled a visit for exactly yhe same reasons which left me isolated. Your

relationship with your T is personal and based on trust, matbe I'm paranoid too.

Best wishes

TC