Re: Human body can't hold 100's of stones

[Guest guest]

> I just can't comprehend where all these stones are coming from where

> people have done 5-10 flushes (some have done upwards of 40). Any

> answers?

Many stones start in the liver...when you flush, you push stones out of the

liver.

These stones are created from parasites and toxins amongst other things.

The liver can have up to 2000 stones in it (this is a pretty poorly liver I

might add) but that doesn't mean everyone's liver has 2000 stones in it.

Older stones are larger. After flushing, older stones move to the front of

the liver and are released during the next flush. Theoretically, if you

flush regularly, you should eventually see less and less liver stones

assuming your diet is healthy.

Stones that are formed in the GB are more often than not caused by bad

dieting.

Low and no-fat diets prevent the gb from releasing bile and the bile

crystallises causing stones. This is why they are usually greenish in colour

(bile colour). Liver stones are usually brownish in colour...go here to see

a liver stone:

http://curezone.com/gallstones/ (cross section of a liver with gallstone in

duct)

Most flushes produce lots of brownish stones - liver stones - and may be

peppered with some green or red or black stones. These are usually from the

GB and depending on how they were formed (calcium, cholesterol, bacteria

etc) will affect the colour.

GB stones are usually harder to move because of size and because the

pressure built up during the fasting before a flush is in the liver, not the

GB...by the time it reaches the GB, some momentum has been lost. It is

always a good idea to try and soften large GB stones with apple juice or

other natural herbs before flushing.

HTH

Dax

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/30/02 10:10:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,

medwards706@... writes:

> What I don't understand is how people can

> have 100's of stones that come out on each flush. If you look at that

> gallbladder it looks like it has maybe 100 at most stones. So if you

> do a flush that partly disolves some of those maybe you can get a

> couple hundred. But then, when you did another flush shouldn't those

> all be gone?

>

When people refer to the hundreds of stones they eliminate, they aren't all

the size of the ones you see in that picture. If it's the picture I'm

thinking of, those stones are pretty big. Some are, sure, but many are much

smaller, but still are considered stones. Also, the stones are not just

in the gallbladder, but in the liver and I believe in the ducts as well.

They can get flushed out from each of these areas.

So yes, the body can hold hundreds of stones and I can say this with

confidence because I know that I've elminated hundreds in the cleanses I've

done!

in health,

[Guest guest]

medwards706@... writes:

> Thanks. I'm just wondering with some of those, especially the very

> very small ones could be what medical doctors say are congealed olive

> oil/salt/bile/whatever. Just trying to get more information about all

> of this -- even though a stone is very small, having lots of them

> will still take up the same mass as a few bigger ones.

>

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the medical profession. I believe

that most doctors are going by what they have learned in their medical

training (which usually has little/nothing to do with natural remedies.) I

am definitely not the type to bash the whole profession, so please take what

I'm about to say with that in consideration.

It is common, from what I've read, for medical doctors to discount the

cleanse, as well as to find other explanations for what are referred to as

stones. If you search the archives you will find other times when people

have suggested that the stones are actually just congealed oil. There are

those who will always choose to believe that, perhaps because they are

uncomfortable with the idea of natural cleansing being a viable alternative.

That's just speculation on my part. What I'm really getting to is that t

here are responses from those with much more experience/information (like

Agnes who seems to have devoted much of her life to this stuff).

Questioning is GOOD, . It's good to do your research and get all the

information you can in order to make an educated decision about what you

believe. But the best education you could possibly get is in actually trying

a cleanse! When you see what your body eliminates you will be better

equipped to make a choice about what you think it is.

In the meantime, I'd really encourage you to surf through the archives when

you have time. There's a plethora of information in there, including

questions from skeptics who pose possible other explanations for the stones

that are eliminated. I think it's good to read both sides.

I don't know if this has been of any help to you at all! I'm glad you're

searching, though, and I know you'll find the right answers for you.

in health,

[Guest guest]

barry91162@... writes:

> Fasting will allow the bile that is dropping down into the gb to build up

> and be

> full, waiting for the next intake of fats into the intestine. The gb

> will release a lot of bile throughout the day. Quarts of the stuff is

> made daily.

>

I wonder what happens when a person goes on an extended fast. Since the body

produces bile on a regular basis and it's fat in the diet that causes the

gallbladder to contract and move out the bile - what happens if a person is

on a fast - OR on a non-fat diet (which I find hard to imagine!!) for an

extended period of time. Any theories??

Just curious....

[Guest guest]

barry91162@... writes:

> Yes , I have theories, I'm full of them. :-)

That's what I was counting on, Barry.

> The fast in liver/gb clease methods are very short. Only one or a

> couple of days. The bile is still producing for that one day and then

> waiting in the gb to flush it out on the next meal. One day fasting

> will allow it to build up throughout the day to it's best condition

> for the evening oil drink. Obviously if fasting is for an extended

> period of time, like many days, weeks, the bile will slow down

> considerably.

How would the liver know to slow down the bile production?? I know you're

not a doctor and I don't expect you to have all the answers. I just find all

this interesting and I enjoy the theories.

i do know that a non-fat diet isn't healthy because the body needs the " good "

fat in order to function properly. It had just never occurred to me about

the bile production during a fast. I did an extended fast a couple of years

ago and in the middle of it was when I did my first liver cleanse. Talk

about incredible results!!! I'm just wondering now if there was a real

considerable buildup of bile and that's why it was so successful. And

considering that I'd been on a juice fast, there had been no fat consumption

for a considerable amount of time.

Well, just thinking out loud. I'll never forget that first cleanse - I guess

most people remember how amazing it was to see what is eliminated.

in health,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/30/02 10:10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

medwards706@... writes:

> Hasn't there been any real research done on the

> gunk that comes out of these cleanses?

I think this is pretty much what Agnes does - at least that's the impression

I get from reading her posts. When she reads your question I'm sure she'll

have some information for you.

[Guest guest]

> So yes, the body can hold hundreds of stones and I can say this

with

> confidence because I know that I've elminated hundreds in the

cleanses I've

> done!

Thanks. I'm just wondering with some of those, especially the very

very small ones could be what medical doctors say are congealed olive

oil/salt/bile/whatever. Just trying to get more information about all

of this -- even though a stone is very small, having lots of them

will still take up the same mass as a few bigger ones.

--

[Guest guest]

Dax, very good explanation for the hundreds of stones in the liver. I

would have to disagree or 'clarify' 2 things that you've mentioned.

" Low or no-fat diets prevent the gb from releasing bile thus forming

stones " . This is true but is only one reason. Over eating fats with

cholesterol can also over burden the liver making it sluggish and

causing the crystilization of gb stones. Both sides of the diet

should have been mentioned. My cause was the later diet problem.

" Fasting causes pressure to build up in the liver and not the gb " .

Bile pressure is built up in both the liver and gb. Fasting will

allow the bile that is dropping down into the gb to build up and be

full, waiting for the next intake of fats into the intestine. The gb

will release a lot of bile throughout the day. Quarts of the stuff is

made daily.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Good health.

Barry.

> > I just can't comprehend where all these stones are coming from

where

> > people have done 5-10 flushes (some have done upwards of 40). Any

> > answers?

>

> Many stones start in the liver...when you flush, you push stones

out of the

> liver.

>

> These stones are created from parasites and toxins amongst other

things.

>

> The liver can have up to 2000 stones in it (this is a pretty poorly

liver I

> might add) but that doesn't mean everyone's liver has 2000 stones

in it.

>

> Older stones are larger. After flushing, older stones move to the

front of

> the liver and are released during the next flush. Theoretically, if

you

> flush regularly, you should eventually see less and less liver

stones

> assuming your diet is healthy.

>

> Stones that are formed in the GB are more often than not caused by

bad

> dieting.

>

> Low and no-fat diets prevent the gb from releasing bile and the bile

> crystallises causing stones. This is why they are usually greenish

in colour

> (bile colour). Liver stones are usually brownish in colour...go

here to see

> a liver stone:

>

> http://curezone.com/gallstones/ (cross section of a liver with

gallstone in

> duct)

>

> Most flushes produce lots of brownish stones - liver stones - and

may be

> peppered with some green or red or black stones. These are usually

from the

> GB and depending on how they were formed (calcium, cholesterol,

bacteria

> etc) will affect the colour.

>

> GB stones are usually harder to move because of size and because the

> pressure built up during the fasting before a flush is in the

liver, not the

> GB...by the time it reaches the GB, some momentum has been lost. It

is

> always a good idea to try and soften large GB stones with apple

juice or

> other natural herbs before flushing.

>

> HTH

> Dax

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

One think to realize is that your body will produce thousands and

thousands of stones (maybe a million) over your lifetime and will

usually be eliminating them through regular digestive system function

in your regular bowel movements. They will be softer and smashed

within your stool. This is normal. In fact, one of the chemicals in

bile is what gives stools their brown color.

The liver will clean the blood, toxins, and bad fats (cholesterol)

out of your system daily and bile from the gb will help to digest the

food in your intestine.

The pictures you see of the gb full of stones is only at time of

removal. The stones are passing in and out of the gb all the time

with normal body function. They are usually small of soft which

wouldn't cause a problem for anyone. When the liver and gb get

sluggish because of poor diet, fast weight loss or gain, health

reasons, stresses, etc, the gb will retain some of these soft stones

and they will become harder and grow in size. Calcified stones are

harder to remove from the gb because they become bigger and harder in

form. A 1cm soft liver stone can easily pass through the 4mm common

duct a lot easier than a calcified, hard 1 cm gb stone through the

2mm cystic duct from the gb leading to the common duct.

So, the hundreds of stones you hear about in flushing methods is

usually talking about soft liver stones coming out of your body

before they can stay around and become a problem. Flushing therefore

is good for everyone to do because 99% of the people who try

cleansing will release many of these softer liver stones. Try it and

prove it wrong if you will.

Whereas it is not nessesary to flush because if your body is healthy

and you have no problems of pain, your body is already doing

this 'cleansing' on it's own. In my opinion, flushing is good for

everyone at least twice a year because it really helps to clear out

your body of clinging toxins that your body may have difficulty in

releasing. Also, flushing speeds up the process and the results can

be actually viewed because you are using a method of fasting and

elimination that doesn't contain the other elements in the stool. The

stones and sludge will be all you see in the flush so you can

actually examine your success of your attempt at cleaning your liver

and gb.

Calcified gb stones that are harder may also come out in a flush but

they are usually tougher to get out unless you assist them in

softening a little before the flush. Dieting is good for that as well

as taking herbs, medication, etc. Dieting will also slow down the

process of creating more stones at the fast rate that is bad for your

body.

Good luck in your search for better health while keeping your vital

digestive organs. :-)

Barry.

> medwards706@y... writes:

> > Thanks. I'm just wondering with some of those, especially the

very

> > very small ones could be what medical doctors say are congealed

olive

> > oil/salt/bile/whatever. Just trying to get more information about

all

> > of this -- even though a stone is very small, having lots of them

> > will still take up the same mass as a few bigger ones.

> >

>

>

> I have a tremendous amount of respect for the medical profession.

I believe

> that most doctors are going by what they have learned in their

medical

> training (which usually has little/nothing to do with natural

remedies.) I

> am definitely not the type to bash the whole profession, so please

take what

> I'm about to say with that in consideration.

>

> It is common, from what I've read, for medical doctors to discount

the

> cleanse, as well as to find other explanations for what are

referred to as

> stones. If you search the archives you will find other times when

people

> have suggested that the stones are actually just congealed oil.

There are

> those who will always choose to believe that, perhaps because they

are

> uncomfortable with the idea of natural cleansing being a viable

alternative.

> That's just speculation on my part. What I'm really getting to

is that t

> here are responses from those with much more experience/information

(like

> Agnes who seems to have devoted much of her life to this stuff).

>

> Questioning is GOOD, . It's good to do your research and

get all the

> information you can in order to make an educated decision about

what you

> believe. But the best education you could possibly get is in

actually trying

> a cleanse! When you see what your body eliminates you will be

better

> equipped to make a choice about what you think it is.

>

> In the meantime, I'd really encourage you to surf through the

archives when

> you have time. There's a plethora of information in there,

including

> questions from skeptics who pose possible other explanations for

the stones

> that are eliminated. I think it's good to read both sides.

>

> I don't know if this has been of any help to you at all! I'm glad

you're

> searching, though, and I know you'll find the right answers for

you.

>

> in health,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes , I have theories, I'm full of them. :-)

The fast in liver/gb clease methods are very short. Only one or a

couple of days. The bile is still producing for that one day and then

waiting in the gb to flush it out on the next meal. One day fasting

will allow it to build up throughout the day to it's best condition

for the evening oil drink. Obviously if fasting is for an extended

period of time, like many days, weeks, the bile will slow down

considerably. In fact, a low or non-fat diet without the essential

fats can be bad for your body as well because the bile will sit

around in the gb and actually stagnate and create more problems with

stones. Dieting must be balanced for your body to function at it's

best. Eliminating all fats would probably mean you would have to

continue to flush forever because you aren't conditioning your body

to do the work that it is meant to do for you.

Does this make sense? Sometimes my theories don't. :-)

Barry.

> barry91162@y... writes:

> > Fasting will allow the bile that is dropping down into the gb to

build up

> > and be

> > full, waiting for the next intake of fats into the intestine. The

gb

> > will release a lot of bile throughout the day. Quarts of the

stuff is

> > made daily.

> >

>

> I wonder what happens when a person goes on an extended fast.

Since the body

> produces bile on a regular basis and it's fat in the diet that

causes the

> gallbladder to contract and move out the bile - what happens if a

person is

> on a fast - OR on a non-fat diet (which I find hard to imagine!!)

for an

> extended period of time. Any theories??

>

> Just curious....

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>It is common, from what I've read, for medical doctors to discount the cleanse

Kind of off the subject, but this just reminded me of my trip to the

dermatologist the other day. I was getting my prescription renewed for my

psoriasis. Three years ago when I went to

my first dermatologist and had my problem diagnosed, I asked him if he believed

there was a liver/skin disease connection. He wrinkled up his nose and shook

his head no. He said " We

don't know what causes psoriasis and we can't cure it. We can only control it. "

Of course I didn't believe him and went ahead and changed my diet, etc., and did

some bowel cleansing.

It helped my condition. Anyway, a few days ago I was in the same office, but

with one of the new doctors hired to this practice. I asked this guy if he

followed the homeopathic

remedies at all and he said he did somewhat. I asked his opinion of liver

cleansing to clear up psoriasis. He said, " Scientifically, there isn't proof

out there of a liver connection

to psoriasis. You can't compare livers and see why one person has it and

another one doesn't. But in practice, there is proof. " He went on to tell me

of a patient who has psoriasis

all over his body and it really affects his life. He started doing cleanses and

following a strict diet and the doctor said he came in without a spot. " Which

just goes to show you it

really is an autoimmune disorder and not a skin problem, and that's why the diet

clears it up " , he said.

Hallelujiah! No doctor had ever said that.

My point in telling this is that I agree with , that doctors are doing

what they know to be right and for the most part are helpful. I just don't

understand why easier, more

natural remedies for ailments are so often poo-hooed by them. I like to go to

doctors who are up on a variety of methods of treatment. My regular MD has

recommended many homeopathic

remedies (which usually worked) before prescribing medicines for my children.

Janet

Janet

[Guest guest]

I am not questioning whether all the stones are olive oil based. I am

simply questioning whether some of the small ones are. This brings up

an interesting point. Hasn't there been any real research done on the

gunk that comes out of these cleanses? Is there an report that we can

get a hold of that analyzes the stuff that comes out of 20 different

people doing this cleanse?

--

> medwards706@y... writes:

> > Thanks. I'm just wondering with some of those, especially the

very

> > very small ones could be what medical doctors say are congealed

olive

> > oil/salt/bile/whatever. Just trying to get more information about

all

> > of this -- even though a stone is very small, having lots of them

> > will still take up the same mass as a few bigger ones.

> >

>

>

> I have a tremendous amount of respect for the medical profession.

I believe

> that most doctors are going by what they have learned in their

medical

> training (which usually has little/nothing to do with natural

remedies.) I

> am definitely not the type to bash the whole profession, so please

take what

> I'm about to say with that in consideration.

>

> It is common, from what I've read, for medical doctors to discount

the

> cleanse, as well as to find other explanations for what are

referred to as

> stones. If you search the archives you will find other times when

people

> have suggested that the stones are actually just congealed oil.

There are

> those who will always choose to believe that, perhaps because they

are

> uncomfortable with the idea of natural cleansing being a viable

alternative.

> That's just speculation on my part. What I'm really getting to

is that t

> here are responses from those with much more experience/information

(like

> Agnes who seems to have devoted much of her life to this stuff).

>

> Questioning is GOOD, . It's good to do your research and

get all the

> information you can in order to make an educated decision about

what you

> believe. But the best education you could possibly get is in

actually trying

> a cleanse! When you see what your body eliminates you will be

better

> equipped to make a choice about what you think it is.

>

> In the meantime, I'd really encourage you to surf through the

archives when

> you have time. There's a plethora of information in there,

including

> questions from skeptics who pose possible other explanations for

the stones

> that are eliminated. I think it's good to read both sides.

>

> I don't know if this has been of any help to you at all! I'm glad

you're

> searching, though, and I know you'll find the right answers for

you.

>

> in health,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I'm on an extended juice fast and would like to do a gb cleanse.

Would a load of olive oil be a shock to a digestive system that has

essentially shut down due to fasting? Which cleans procedure did you employ?

Thanks,

Sam

You said:

I did an extended fast a couple of years

ago and in the middle of it was when I did my first liver cleanse. Talk

about incredible results!!!

[Guest guest]

What are calcified stones? Specifically where do they come from?

Excess calcium? The wrong kind of calcium? Lack of other nutrient?

> and they will become harder and grow in size. Calcified stones are

> harder to remove from the gb because they become bigger and harder

[Guest guest]

Calcified stones are most always the stones that have sat for a

longer amount to time in the gb and have hardened. They are

originally mostly formed out of cholesterol.

http://www.curezone.com can answer a lot of your questions better

than I can. There is tons of information and pictures on that site

explaining the different types of stones, most common of which is the

cholesterol stones.

Barry.

> > and they will become harder and grow in size. Calcified stones

are

> > harder to remove from the gb because they become bigger and harder

[Guest guest]

agnes@... writes:

> Give me just one good reason why would anyone in the Health Industry want to

> invest money into research on Liver Flush?

>

Agnes

Of course the general medical establishment hasn't done research - but I

thought that's what you do. Isn't that why you often ask for pictures and

details? For research? Don't you have some documentation (other than the

general testimonials) to refer him to??

in health,

[Guest guest]

At 03:08 31.01.2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Hasn't there been any real research done on the

>gunk that comes out of these cleanses? Is there an report that we can

>get a hold of that analyzes the stuff that comes out of 20 different

>people doing this cleanse?

>--

,

You are very optimistic person! That is good!

But unfortunately, you sound like you have been brainwashed to believe that

Health Industry exist for you to be healthy.

What if it is the other way around? What if the hidden goal of the Health

Industry is you being sick?

The fact is, most industries exist for making money, and it is actually easier

for health industry to make money when people are sick.

Give me just one good reason why would anyone in the Health Industry want to

invest money into research on Liver Flush?

Or, let me put it this way:

----------------

There are 23.7 million cases of Hay Fever or Allergic Rhinitis (without Asthma)

reported annually (1996)

16.7 million visits to office-based physicians each year are attributed to

Allergic Rhinitis (1999)

And the numbers are growing!

Nearly 14.6 million Americans have Asthma (1996)

Approximately 9.5 million visits annually to office-based physicians result

in a

principal diagnosis of asthma (1999)

Over 33 million Americans have Arthritis (1996)

Percent of Americans Ages 20-74 With Hypertension: 23% (1988-94)

In 1999, there were 32 million Office Visits for Hypertension

The percent of women 50 years of age and over who had a mammogram in the past 2

years more than doubled between 1987 and 1993, from 27 to 60 percent.

In 1993 there were nearly 1.5 million hospital discharges for inpatients with a

first-listed diagnosis of cancer.

168,000 were attributed to breast cancer;

111,000 from colon cancer; and 123,000 from prostate cancer. . . .

Cancer patients spent an average of 8.1 days in the hospital in 1993. . .

The average length of stay in 1993 for cancer of the large intestine was 11

days, while for breast cancer patients the average length of stay was 3.7. . .

..

In 1993 there were 124,000 mastectomies performed in the U.S., while 317,000

prostatectomies were performed on U.S. men.

There were 22.2 million pap smears and 3.3 million manual breast examinations

performed at physicians offices in 1994, as well as over 2.4 million skin

biopsies. . . .

In 1993, 60 percent of women aged 40 years and over reported having a mammogram

in the past 2 years, while 47 percent of women 50-64 years of age reported

having a mammogram within the past year. . . .

There were 301,000 bronchoscopies performed in the U.S. in 1993, with or

without biopsies.

There were 23,000 closed percutaneous (needle) biopsies performed on the lung

in 1993 and 16,000 open biopsies performed on the lung. . . . Among hospital

inpatients, therapeutic radiology and nuclear medicine was used on 122,000

occasions in 1993, while chemotherapy was used in 388,000 instances.

And so on...

====================

(USA stats - http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/)

You understand that we are talking about multibillion industry.

Now, imagine someone " stupid " asks for funds to begin investigating a procedure

that could prevent and help curing from 50% to 95% of those people!

Imagine someone suggest investigation into procedure that may make you believe

that you could be your own doctor, and that your body have potential to prevent

and heal the worst diseases?

How many pharmaceutical companies would come to bankruptcy in this case this

person gets funds to do research?

How many rich people (like Bush Family, Rockefeller, Roschilds, ...) would

loose billions of dollars invested in Shares of prosperous pharmaceutical

companies?

How many medical experts would have to reeducate themselves and even worst, to

admit that what they believed was wrong?

How many medical experts would loose their jobs?

Drug companies, which fund many of the health studies, have little interest in

pursuing alternative treatments, since they are generally inexpensive and

cannot be patented. Money can only be earned with the drug that can be

patented.

Don't even try to think further...

====================

The Nature of the Pharmaceutical Industry

http://www.drrath.com/mr-publishing-internet/politics/pc/uk/index.htm

The natural purpose and driving force of the pharmaceutical industry is to

increase sales of pharmaceutical drugs for ongoing diseases and to find new

diseases to market existing drugs.

By this very nature, the pharmaceutical industry has no interest in curing

diseases. The eradication of any disease inevitably destroys a multi-billion

dollar market of prescription drugs as a source of revenues. Therefore,

pharmaceutical drugs are primarily developed to relieve symptoms, but not to

cure.

If eradication therapies for diseases are discovered and developed, the

pharmaceutical industry has an inherent interest to suppress, discredit and

obstruct these medical breakthroughs in order to make sure that diseases

continue as the very basis for a lucrative prescription drug market.

The economic interest of the pharmaceutical industry itself is the main reason

why no medical breakthrough has been made for the control of the most common

diseases such as cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, heart failure,

diabetes, cancer, and osteoporosis, and why these diseases continue like

epidemics on a worldwide scale.

For the same economic reasons, the pharmaceutical industry has now formed an

international cartel by the code name “Codex Alimentarius” with the aim to

outlaw any health information in connection with vitamins and to limit free

access to natural therapies on a worldwide scale.

At the same time, the pharmaceutical companies withhold public information

about the effects and risks of prescription drugs and life-threatening side

effects are omitted or openly denied.

In order to assure the status quo of this deceptive scheme, a legion of

pharmaceutical lobbyists is employed to influence legislation, control

regulatory agencies (e.g. FDA), and manipulate medical research and education.

Expensive advertising campaigns and PR agencies are used to deceiving the

public.

Millions of people and patients around the world are defrauded twice: A major

portion of their income is used up to finance the exploding profits of the

pharmaceutical industry. In return, they are offered a medicine that does not

even cure.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------

More Deaths Than in All Wars of Mankind Combined

As a direct consequence of the pharmaceutical business, more people have died

from preventable disease than in all wars of mankind combined. The following

page summarizes the steps leading to this tragedy.

The fact that vitamin C stabilizes the walls of arteries, for example, has been

known for 200 years, ever since Lind uncovered vitamin C deficiency as

the cause of blood loss and scurvy. Any head of a pharmaceutical company, any

Ph.D. or M.D. who denies knowing this fact is simply incredulous. Why, then,

was this information not applied to medicine in order to combat cardiovascular

disease? Why was the official RDA for vitamin C set at 60 mg, an amount barely

sufficient to prevent scurvy but certainly low enough to make sure that

cardiovascular diseases will become an epidemic? The following page gives the

answer.

Read more here:

http://www.drrath.com/mr-publishing-internet/politics/pc/uk/index.htm

Regards

Agnes Tiller

[Guest guest]

At 03:08 31.01.2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Hasn't there been any real research done on the

>gunk that comes out of these cleanses? Is there an report that we can

>get a hold of that analyzes the stuff that comes out of 20 different

>people doing this cleanse?

>--

,

here is a " homework " for you and anybody else reading this message.

Find lab that is willing to analyze your stones.

Do the flush!

Preserve stones by freezing them, or give them to the lab the same day.

Warn them that stones may contain a lot of intestinal bacteria, and that

stones will most likely decompose on the room temperature, in case they are

not frozen.

Ask them to perform analyzes that will answer at least 50% of next questions.

You at least want an answer to the first 5 questions:

==============================================

1. What % of stones composition are cholesterol acids or cholesterol?

2. What % of stone composition are salts?

3. Which salts?

4.What % of stone composition are fatty acids?

5.Which fatty acids?

What % of stone composition is water?

What % of stone composition is calcium?

What % of stone composition is mercury?

What % of stone composition are other heavy metals?

What % of stone composition is magnesium?

What % of stone composition is MgSO4?

What % of stone composition is HCl?

What % of stone composition are white blood cells?

What % of stone composition are any kind of blood cells?

===================================

Ideally, you will find lab that can answer all those questions.

More realistically, they may answer 50% of those questions.

We are over 800 people in this group.

,

If only 5% of us can do the " Homework " , (and can afford to do analyzes),

and find time to post results to this forum, you will have what you are

looking for !!!!!

And many common dilemma will be solved.

So, be that " chosen one " , be scientist, and do your homework, for yourself,

and for your children!

Regards

Agnes

[Guest guest]

What if it is the other way around? What if the hidden goal of the Health

Industry is you being sick?

The fact is, most industries exist for making money, and it is actually

easier

for health industry to make money when people are sick. >>

________________

You're right, Agnes, they want people to be sick. A few years ago a very

good friend of mine saw a 20/20 show, or some show like 20/20, that left her

steaming mad, where this guy had processed water some way and he called it

pure water. I can't remember what he did to it, but it actually was curing

people of cancer. This is the truth! He was extremely excited about this

and thinking of all the good it would do, so he went to some pharmaceutical

companies in hopes that they could help people who had cancer, and they were

not excited, to say the least. They took this guy to court and won the case.

This person could not ever make any more of it or talk about it.

Susie

[Guest guest]

> >Hasn't there been any real research done on the

> >gunk that comes out of these cleanses? Is there an report that we

can

> >get a hold of that analyzes the stuff that comes out of 20

different

> >people doing this cleanse?

> >--

>

>

> ,

>

> You are very optimistic person! That is good!

>

> But unfortunately, you sound like you have been brainwashed to

believe that

> Health Industry exist for you to be healthy.

Nope sorry. Not me. But the minute someone suggests that to me makes

me think that they are using that as a scapegoat because they don't

want to answer my question (or don't like the question or have

brainwashed themselves, etc). It sounds like the fact is that there

hasn't been any research done on this stuff? Why couldn't you have

just told me that?

There are many researchers who care about people's health. Labeling

all researches as frauds is simply a display of ignorance and quick

thinking neither of which are good ideas when we are talking about

someone's health.

--

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but I find this statement to be quite extremeist.

>

> Debra >>

_________________

Well, maybe I was a little too harsh. There are a few good docs out there.

I can name two right now. Dr. Mercola and Dr. Cabot. Then maybe in

the years to come there might be some more.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You have every right to search for the answers to your questions. None

of us wants to be doing the liver cleanse in vain. However, I think

Agnes did answer your question (at least in her next post, as far as

research goes). It takes money to do research. As Agnes stated in her

post, what reason would the Health Industry have for doing this kind of

research, if they knew the results would cost them millions of dollars?

The costs are to high for the Health Industry to really be about

" health. " IMO, most likely they do have ulterior/financial motives for

doing the research they do. Who employs the researchers? Most likely,

it's the big Health Industry. Therefore, their jobs and very

livelihood is at stake. I'm sure that there are good people within the

medical profession, trapped by the constraints of the medical schools

they are educated by, and by the hospitals they practice in. They're

also trapped by strangling governmental regulations. Why else does the

medical profession prescribe chemo, radiation, and surgery as the cure

for cancer, to the exclusion of any kind of " natural " alternative. You

can bet, they will never find a cure for cancer that doesn't involve

some kind of drug or surgery. Well, these are just my thoughts, and why

I have a great distrust for most things medical and " scientific. "

All I'm sure of, is this: I was in excruciating pain, on a daily basis

prior to doing my first liver cleanse (and this after I'd had my GB

removed!). The first cleanse brought immediate relief! I've passed

close to 2,000 stones in the total of the six liver cleanses I've done

since, and all my digestive symptoms and discomfort are gone. What do

I have to gain by telling my story? Nothing, except the satisfaction

in helping someone else prevent the pain that I myself experienced

through ignorance, and at the hands of medical doctors who had no

solution/cure except surgery!

Adrienne

--- medwards706 <medwards706@...> wrote:

>

> > >Hasn't there been any real research done on the

> > >gunk that comes out of these cleanses? Is there an report that we

> can

> > >get a hold of that analyzes the stuff that comes out of 20

> different

> > >people doing this cleanse?

> > >--

> >

> >

> > ,

> >

> > You are very optimistic person! That is good!

> >

> > But unfortunately, you sound like you have been brainwashed to

> believe that

> > Health Industry exist for you to be healthy.

>

> Nope sorry. Not me. But the minute someone suggests that to me makes

> me think that they are using that as a scapegoat because they don't

> want to answer my question (or don't like the question or have

> brainwashed themselves, etc). It sounds like the fact is that there

> hasn't been any research done on this stuff? Why couldn't you have

> just told me that?

>

> There are many researchers who care about people's health. Labeling

> all researches as frauds is simply a display of ignorance and quick

> thinking neither of which are good ideas when we are talking about

> someone's health.

>

> --

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That's why, IMO, there has been such a surge in

people turning to alternative health care providers and alternative

health care solutions. In doing so, I think we should never forget the

role that money plays in driving the health care industry and the

research that is done.

Thanks for your posts.

Adrienne >>

______________

Very good post, Adrienne, and very informative. I agree. I recently read

something at Dr. Mercola's website about now medical schools are at the very

beginning of training alternative medicine, also. But like he said, it may

take quite a while for the AMA to catch on and things to really change.

That's because, as Dr. Cabot puts it, there's a lot of fossil-brain thinking

going on with these guys. But they have to do something because more people

are turning to alternative healthcare. As we become more informative

nowadays, we can learn more things about how to help our bodies. This is

much better than horrible drugs that can mask the problem. Don't get me

wrong, if you're in severe pain, sometimes resorting to pain meds is the best

way to go. Or if you've had one of your limbs torn off in an accident, you

must seek medical attention. So they do have their place in society.

Many of us on this website have experienced first-hand the ridicule of

physicans for what we're doing. I'm sure many can agree with me, right? I

know that I have experienced it. And people like Dale are fortunate because

he has a doc who is working with him. See, there are a few out there that

are decent.

However, people like our friend Steve who has been through so much lately,

I'm very sure he'd agree with us the problems with the medical field.

Susie

[Guest guest]

I remember a comment my cousin, a plastic surgeon, made some years back. He

said that they could find a cure for cancer, they're just making too much

money off of it. laura

----- Original Message -----

From: <Tishri7@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:03 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Human body can't hold 100's of stones

> What if it is the other way around? What if the hidden goal of the Health

> Industry is you being sick?

>

> The fact is, most industries exist for making money, and it is actually

> easier

> for health industry to make money when people are sick. >>

> ________________

>

> You're right, Agnes, they want people to be sick. A few years ago a very

> good friend of mine saw a 20/20 show, or some show like 20/20, that left

her

> steaming mad, where this guy had processed water some way and he called it

> pure water. I can't remember what he did to it, but it actually was

curing

> people of cancer. This is the truth! He was extremely excited about this

> and thinking of all the good it would do, so he went to some

pharmaceutical

> companies in hopes that they could help people who had cancer, and they

were

> not excited, to say the least. They took this guy to court and won the

case.

> This person could not ever make any more of it or talk about it.

> Susie

>

>

> Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

> http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

>

> Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

>

> Images:

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

>

> Post message: gallstones

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>

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> http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

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> http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

>

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>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

There is a big difference between indirectly offending someone

because you're talking about a subject they dislike and directly

attacking them especially without prior knowledge. I believe in a

unified approach which utilizes all known methods to produce the best

possible outcome. >>

_________________

,

I'm sorry that you've been offended, and to be honest, we're just plain ole'

folk here. We don't wish to offend anyone. However, you're in a forum that

deals with many, many, many people who have had very adverse results with

modern-day medicine and physicians. Keep this in mind, please. If you're

too offended by this, please check out other sites that may not be too

extreme to you. The reason that i'm saying is that most of us are totally

turned off by physicians. There are a few here that have had good results

with modern-day medicine, though.

Knowing Agnes and her postings, she's only doing this for everyone's benefit,

and it wasn't necessarily directed at you. She has some good and valued

information to put forth to all of us. BTW, she gives us all some meat to

feast on in what's going on in the world of medicne. I, for one, find this

very helpful, and I'm sure others on this website find it the same way.

So please, if you're interested in what we have to talk about in the way of

health, stay with us. Again, no one has meant to offend you. I personally

know that Agnes didn't mean to offend you. I also know that she'll speak the

truth about modern-day medicine.

Susie