Re: Human body can't hold 100's of stones

[Guest guest]

>>It's because I know

firsthand the uphill battle chiropractic has had in being accepted as a

viable health care alternative to drugs and surgery-my husband being a

chiropractor for almost 20 years. <<

A few years ago I went to my doctor for recurring, almost daily headaches.

He examined me, and sent me to a chiropractor, who fixed the problem. I

also know an MD who got interested in holistic medicines a few years back

when his son had something (can't remember what, nothing dire though) that

he couldn't get rid of. He now spends a few days a week at his regular

practice, and the others at his office in an alternative medicine facility

in Concord. When I was going through my gallbladder issues, he must have

spent about a half hour on the phone with me, giving me a list of

alternative websites to explore and talikg to me, even though I am not his

patient. Maybe it dependson where you live, but alternative solutions do

seem to have respect around here. (NH)

Debra

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[Guest guest]

> A few years ago I went to my doctor for recurring, almost daily headaches.

> He examined me, and sent me to a chiropractor, who fixed the problem. I

> also know an MD who got interested in holistic medicines a few years back

> when his son had something (can't remember what, nothing dire though) that

> he couldn't get rid of. He now spends a few days a week at his regular

> practice, and the others at his office in an alternative medicine facility

> in Concord. When I was going through my gallbladder issues, he must have

> spent about a half hour on the phone with me, giving me a list of

> alternative websites to explore and talking to me, even though I am not

his

> patient. Maybe it depends on where you live, but alternative solutions do

> seem to have respect around here. (NH)

Debra

This is the gradual change I was talking about in an earlier post...it is

happening. It won't happen overnight because it didn't get this way

overnight.

More and more GP's (MD's) are beginning to accept that not only can

alternative medicine compliment traditional medicine, but it's what a lot of

patients want. Here in the UK, doctors get paid according to the number of

patients they have on their books. Many local surgeries here are just huge

waiting rooms...there is no appointment system and if you get there at 9am,

you are lucky to leave before mid-day. This is because there are so many

patients on each doctors list.

So, if a doctor can have twice as many patients and send half of them

elsewhere to be treated, he is going to earn more money - but that's

ok...because that means more and more people are being introduced to

alternative treatments and finding they are getting relief not from just the

current ailment, but from old ailments they had learned to live with

thinking it couldn't be any different.

Basically, this country (UK) is unhealthier now than it was during the war

with rationing...and yet medical science has supposedly advanced in leaps

and bounds.

What is being discussed here is not necessarily at the bottom end level of

GP's and MD's but more in the research departments in the various

laboratories all over the world.

Whatever is happening, it won't go on forever...already there are changes

happening...people are wanting better results...they hear how much better

their neighbour is feeling and they want some of the same.

We are feeling the gentle waves all over the world...and the current will

get stronger...those who have had very bad experiences with GP's and MD's -

and believe me, there are a lot of people who have - will start to notice

the differences, too.

It does depend on where you are and the more affluent areas will be the

first to benefit as is usually the case...but so much of alternative

medicine can be done without the need for a GP or MD and so eventually,

people in less affluent areas will benefit, too.

You are fortunate enough to be seeing some radical changes in your life

time....

Dax

>

[Guest guest]

>>Sometimes the truth hurts. The AMA and general medical field is very

lucrative (multibillions of dollars). Just try and stop that monster.

O.k., they don't want you to be sick, but thank God you are!!! If you

weren't, the whole American system would suffer, doctors, hospitals,

insurance, pharm. co.s, and etc, etc. We in Western society, and our

lovely diets, are killing ourselves and need a lot of medical

assistance to survive. They thrive and survive on our need. Any

alternative medical suggestions to help ourselves will not be readily

offered by them. I don't see the logic in that. Some do, but the very

minority. That would contradict their existance and profit<<

There are many people, some of them doctors, who are extremely bigoted

against alternative health practices and the motives of people promotimg

such practices. But there is just as much bigotry on this side directed

toward the medical profession. Too bad, because there is certainly much

useful information and expertise on both sides, but with this mentality,

neither side will learn much from the other. Has anyone notice that the

doctors who you happen to agree with, Cabot etc., are also making money?

Debra

Debra

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[Guest guest]

>>. I also know that she'll speak the

truth about modern-day medicine.<<

She'll speak her perception of the truth. Nothing wrong with that though.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

>>Nowadays, it's all big money, big medicines that are horribly expensive

>>and

not everyone could afford them and it's probably good that they can't, and

big surgeries. Wake up, , it's happening. If you don't believe it,

then you're living in another world!<<

If I were , I would consider that remarek offensive.

Let's remember that the whole field of alternative medicine is now a pretty

big money maker too, but no one questions their motives, and I'm sure not

all of them are pure. There have always been snake-oil salesmen.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

True, about doctors as well. Let's not forget that one of the reasons

doctors fees are so high is because of the incredibly litigious society we

live in. Doctors are sued all the time for things that are not neglectful.

Why wouldn't a doctor be afraid of trying something new, something he was

unsure of, but thought might work. >>

___________

Debra, we could go on about this forever and ever, however, what if they

doctors don't even walk they roads that they know how to walk or claim to

know how to walk?

Do you even know what goes on behind closed doors in talking to docs? I do.

And even with hospital administrators.

Before I explain about my family experiences, which are horrible, to say the

least, let me fill you in on something.

Number one, A doctor that the whole family had -- and I promise that I won't

use names -- doctored a lot of my family members, which they happened to be

more elderly. We had our 97-year-old grandmother have problems. He said to

me point blank, I don't want to ever get old. I will take care of it myself

when I do so my kids won't have to deal with it.

BTW, he's about a year or two years old than I am. I'm 48. This is from a

man who professes to LOVE the elderly. But this is not the only time he's

said something like this. He said that he really didn't like dealing with

the elderly. BUT he has tons of elderly people all the time, absolute tons

of them. Also, Debra, he's a leading physican in a small town. He's

extremely popular and for a time had a radio show. I won't go into my

family thing yet at all.

Number two, I worked at a hospital and was able to see many things.

STUPID!!! It's all stupid!!!! They charge out the rear for their prices,

which I had to sometimes change once a week, changing it back up and then

down again because someone made a mistake on the CDM, and then people only to

had to deal with goofey surgeons. I won't go into this yet either. It

really can turn you off to work at a hospital.

Number three, a conversation that I heard, me, just a simple worker. I was

in an office having to make copies one day and overheard a meeting of the

hospital administrator, who BTW, is no longer there, but not because of this.

He was talking to doctors.

I don't know the whole conversation because I came in at this part, but he

said: We shouldn't be telling people to quit smoking. They are and can be

productive members of our society while they're well. So they die early, at

least you can get some productive work out of them.

As I stated, I didn't hear the whole conversation, but he was carrying on and

on about people smoking and how bad it was but said that. Then guess what?

He occasionaly smoked.

Susie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2002 8:05:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tishri7@...

writes:

And according to the New England Medical Journel the docs ie medical

profession is the third leading cause of death in these United States.

Jeanne

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>In all walks of life

there will be charlatans who are in for the money only, the rest of us care

and that is why we pay a lot of money for our training ..<<

True, about doctors as well. Let's not forget that one of the reasons

doctors fees are so high is because of the incredibly litigious society we

live in. Doctors are sued all the time for things that are not neglectful.

Why wouldn't a doctor be afraid of trying something new, something he was

unsure of, but thought might work. If it doesn't work, he/she will be sued.

It's safer to walk the road they know.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

Debra,

Please let me clarify something. I, or no one else in here in their

right minds, are against modern general medical practices. What we

usually refering to here is the effects it has on us with the

gallbladder issues primarily.

I was told to have my gb cut out by 3 different doctors as an easy

fix. I heard nothing from any of them about cleansing, repairing the

organ, and keeping the vital digestive organ that God has given me. I

don't know why. They were all eager to set the appointment and make

the money from this procedure. I chose a route found only from

searching the internet. I am keeping my organ. I even asked the last

doctor I saw about this, what he thought, and he laughed at me and

still tried to set an appointment to cut out my organ.

What do you make of this? From the gallbladder issue, as far as

general medicine is concerned, they don't care about alternative

medical methods. My only conclusion is that they won't make a profit

from a simple operation for them.

So, in closing, I love general medical procedures, and use them all

the time. But as far as the gallbladder cleansing, and keeping the

organ, you will find it hard to get support from them unless you just

want to get it cut out.

Barry.

>

> >>Sometimes the truth hurts. The AMA and general medical field is

very

> lucrative (multibillions of dollars). Just try and stop that

monster.

> O.k., they don't want you to be sick, but thank God you are!!! If

you

> weren't, the whole American system would suffer, doctors, hospitals,

> insurance, pharm. co.s, and etc, etc. We in Western society, and our

> lovely diets, are killing ourselves and need a lot of medical

> assistance to survive. They thrive and survive on our need. Any

> alternative medical suggestions to help ourselves will not be

readily

> offered by them. I don't see the logic in that. Some do, but the

very

> minority. That would contradict their existance and profit<<

>

> There are many people, some of them doctors, who are extremely

bigoted

> against alternative health practices and the motives of people

promotimg

> such practices. But there is just as much bigotry on this side

directed

> toward the medical profession. Too bad, because there is certainly

much

> useful information and expertise on both sides, but with this

mentality,

> neither side will learn much from the other. Has anyone notice

that the

> doctors who you happen to agree with, Cabot etc., are also making

money?

>

> Debra

>

> Debra

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/2/02 23:02:35 GMT Standard Time, Tishri7@... writes:

I have never heard of Suekot sorry, so it could not be me - I do not sell any

health care products.

What is so bad is that the doctors here are getting away with malpractice

every single day, we should start to sue more often. However, some nurses

know nothing!! My husband had to have an operation on his eyes at the age of

5 - they took him in, did the op and then bandaged the eyes for a period of 1

week. Unfortunately it was guy fawkes night in the middle of the 1 week and

1 very caring, stupid nurse decided that it was unfair that my husband could

not see the lovely bright fireworks - so she took his bandages off so that he

could see them - result, he has really bad eyesight which was caused by the

bright lights. What could his mother do 48 years ago - absolutely nothing

so they got away with it again. That still does not make me think that all

the medical profession are trying to keep us sick - they just think they know

better and they don't.

nne

> I do agree that there's people in the healthcare business that do care. I

> know because I worked with them for many years. I also agree that there's

> many that don't give a hoot. Many that I HAVE FOUND THAT CARE are nurses,

> and the problem with many of them are the doctors, plus all the time

> hospitals require them to fill out paperwork while they could be using

> their

> healing talent. I'm convinced many nurses (not all) have more ability than

>

> many doctors. And like I stated earlier, we have had very bad family

> problems in our experience with doctors. One who did surgery was so bad

> and

> messed up so bad on my husband's grandmother, that it wasn't long before

> they

> let him go. It's a horrible story of what he did to her. I sure hope he

> isn't doing surgery anymore.

>

[Guest guest]

Are you in the Concord, California area?

T.T.

[Guest guest]

Medicine is not an exact science. People expect doctors to be

god. People need to take some responsibility for accepting the risks, and

only sue when it truly is malpractice. >>

_____________

Debra,

I agree that many people think docs are a deity, and not all people, though.

But much of the medical profession does set themselves up for this. Many

years ago when my sister-in-law started doing radiation treatments on cancer

patients, she would say about a young doctor, " Well, at least he hasn't

gotten the " god " image yet. " I.e., it's going to happen to most of them.

She's been doing this work close to 30 years, and she has experienced this.

She's in California now, and she's finding it's the same thing.

Also, it's a very good thing that you have open-minded doctors. Not that

many of us are this fortunate. I'm serious. You must live in a part of the

US where these guys are better or something. It's not this case around my

area, and I am being very honest about this. I'm really not trying to be

mean or insensitive about it. Now, it may be good in a larger city that's

near me, but it's too far to drive just in a doctor visit or something. We

must get the castaways in my area, I guess. I don't know how else to put it.

Again, I do not think most doctors are evil or anything like that. Maybe my

family have just had horrible experiences. Believe me, we have!!! And not

only in one case. My grandmother and my mother-in-law are two cases.

About the stupid guy and his self-caused accident, he didn't deserve anything

at all. That's just totally ignornant. I agree with having responsibility

for yourself, by all means. But my family have had two experiences with

doctors that have been horrible errors.

Take care,

Susie

[Guest guest]

>>He said to

me point blank, I don't want to ever get old. I will take care of it myself

when I do so my kids won't have to deal with it. <<

If that's his choice, I certainly respect it. I hope to live to be really

old, but I would certainly want a way out if I had Alzheimers, or some other

debilitating disease, because I would not want my kids to have to deal with

it. I have taken care of Alzheimer's patients being cared for in home, and

though I greatly admire what these folks have chosen to do for their

families, I would not want my sons to be wiping my bottom, etc. Nor would

I want my healthcare to eat up as much of my kids' lives as I have seen

happen. I am not claiming that this is " right " , or even a better

alternative, just a matter of personal choice. I can relate to what he

said. I know there are all sorts of religious reasons, etc, why people

would feel this is wrong, and I respect those opinions, it's just not how I

feel personally.

As far as the smoking thing goes, it sound to me as if it was sarcastic

humor.

And I know a lot of horror stories go on in hospitals. I also know that a

lot of it is caused by a shortage of nurses, and people who are not

qualified to be doing nursing duties being put in those places. A lot of

this is administrative fiascos.

I just have a positive outlook on human nature in general, and don't belive

that doctors are evil beings just looking for a way to make a buck. Like I

said, some of them are misguided, but so are some in the alternative

medicine field.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

>>Please let me clarify something. I, or no one else in here in their

right minds, are against modern general medical practices. What we

usually refering to here is the effects it has on us with the

gallbladder issues primarily.<<

I believe this is true of you, but by some of the statements made, it is not

true of everyone.

>>I was told to have my gb cut out by 3 different doctors as an easy

fix. I heard nothing from any of them about cleansing, repairing the

organ, and keeping the vital digestive organ that God has given me. I

don't know why. They were all eager to set the appointment and make

the money from this procedure. I chose a route found only from

searching the internet. I am keeping my organ. I even asked the last

doctor I saw about this, what he thought, and he laughed at me and

still tried to set an appointment to cut out my organ.

What do you make of this? <<

GPs know a little about a lot of things. They don't even know all of the

medical information about many specific issues, never mind alternative

stuff. Nowadays, especially, it is essential, and easier for consumers to

educate themselves. However, doctors are sometime skeptical, because there

is a lot of misinformation out there amongst the valuable stuff. I have

actually gone to my doctor with information about a specific treatment for

something and had him say, Well, you know more about that than I do at this

point. " Also, when I went to him about my gallbladder, yes, he advised

taking it out. I talked to him about my concerns. He said that my

condition was not life threatening, and that it would be fine to try dietary

changes, etc, to see if I could control it. He respected my thoughts about

what I wanted to do. Even when I eventully went to a gastrointerologist, he

eliminated every other possibility before saying I should have it out,

because he said sometimes doctors make the mistake of taking the gallbladder

out, and that isn't even the cause of the problem. And my surgeon insisted

upon a cholangiogram, because he said it was unconscienable to put someone

through surgery and leave them with stones in their bile duct, which would

still leave them in pain. I lasted three years from my first attack up

until surgery. I have a great amount of respect for the doctors I dealt

with, and I always felt as if my wishes and concerns were respected by them

as well.

>>

From the gallbladder issue, as far as

general medicine is concerned, they don't care about alternative

medical methods. My only conclusion is that they won't make a profit

from a simple operation for them.>>

This is where you and I disagree, and that's fine, we won't convince each

other otherwise. As I said, I know a doctor who now practices in an

alternative medical facility. I think they are afraid of malpractice suits

if they promote something alternative. I believe that the type of people

who (generally) go into medicine, do so to help.

>>So, in closing, I love general medical procedures, and use them all

the time. But as far as the gallbladder cleansing, and keeping the

organ, you will find it hard to get support from them unless you just

want to get it cut out.<<

This is true, I'm sure, in the majority of cases. I just differ with you in

my opinion of the reason why.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

>>What is so bad is that the doctors here are getting away with malpractice

every single day, we should start to sue more often. <<

I disagree. There is a big difference between malpractice, which sometimes

does happen, and being the victim of one of the known risks of some

procedure. Medicine is not an exact science. People expect doctors to be

god. People need to take some responsibility for accepting the risks, and

only sue when it truly is malpractice.

In our society, everything is someone elses fault. There was a guy in

Concord (NH), must have been almost twenty years ago now, but this has

always stayed with me as a great example of how people think. He was

sledding on a big hill in a city park. It was icy. He got on the sled,

backwards, and rode down right into a tree. As a result, he will spend the

rest of his life in a wheelchair. He sued the city, the manufacturer of the

sled, and the store where he bought it. (Anyone remember the now defunct

Zayre chain?) Anyway, they all settled, because it was cheaper than going

to court. HELLO!! What about personal responsibility here? There are a

few good reasons to sue someone, but I think the majority of cases are

bogus.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

>>Are you in the Concord, California area?<<

No. NH. Sorry, I thought I said that.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

Debra,

You are lucky to have had a good doctor to suggest the right things.

Unfortunetly, from my experience, the gastrologists I have delt with

(and they weren't GP doctors by the way)have not given me

satisfactory options. I think most of the people in here agree with

that. The gallbladder removal surgery is easy and costly so this does

make it a quick fix for most doctors in the field of this topic. And

believe it ir not, a lot of them (probably the majority) will abuse

that right of suggestion. I don't hear many people talking about the

chance of keeping your gb and your money as well.

I only found the alternative methods on the internet and have chosen

to keep, repair, and enjoy my digestive organ the way it was meant to

be. I'm sorry that you had your removed from you before you could

find a chance to try and keep it. Unless of course it was damaged

beyond help and had to definitely be cut out.

Good luck in your search for better health.

Barry.

>

> >>Please let me clarify something. I, or no one else in here in

their

> right minds, are against modern general medical practices. What we

> usually refering to here is the effects it has on us with the

> gallbladder issues primarily.<<

>

> I believe this is true of you, but by some of the statements made,

it is not

> true of everyone.

>

> >>I was told to have my gb cut out by 3 different doctors as an easy

> fix. I heard nothing from any of them about cleansing, repairing the

> organ, and keeping the vital digestive organ that God has given me.

I

> don't know why. They were all eager to set the appointment and make

> the money from this procedure. I chose a route found only from

> searching the internet. I am keeping my organ. I even asked the last

> doctor I saw about this, what he thought, and he laughed at me and

> still tried to set an appointment to cut out my organ.

> What do you make of this? <<

>

> GPs know a little about a lot of things. They don't even know all

of the

> medical information about many specific issues, never mind

alternative

> stuff. Nowadays, especially, it is essential, and easier for

consumers to

> educate themselves. However, doctors are sometime skeptical,

because there

> is a lot of misinformation out there amongst the valuable stuff. I

have

> actually gone to my doctor with information about a specific

treatment for

> something and had him say, Well, you know more about that than I do

at this

> point. " Also, when I went to him about my gallbladder, yes, he

advised

> taking it out. I talked to him about my concerns. He said that my

> condition was not life threatening, and that it would be fine to

try dietary

> changes, etc, to see if I could control it. He respected my

thoughts about

> what I wanted to do. Even when I eventully went to a

gastrointerologist, he

> eliminated every other possibility before saying I should have it

out,

> because he said sometimes doctors make the mistake of taking the

gallbladder

> out, and that isn't even the cause of the problem. And my surgeon

insisted

> upon a cholangiogram, because he said it was unconscienable to put

someone

> through surgery and leave them with stones in their bile duct,

which would

> still leave them in pain. I lasted three years from my first

attack up

> until surgery. I have a great amount of respect for the doctors I

dealt

> with, and I always felt as if my wishes and concerns were respected

by them

> as well.

> >>

>

> From the gallbladder issue, as far as

> general medicine is concerned, they don't care about alternative

> medical methods. My only conclusion is that they won't make a profit

> from a simple operation for them.>>

>

> This is where you and I disagree, and that's fine, we won't

convince each

> other otherwise. As I said, I know a doctor who now practices in

an

> alternative medical facility. I think they are afraid of

malpractice suits

> if they promote something alternative. I believe that the type of

people

> who (generally) go into medicine, do so to help.

>

>

> >>So, in closing, I love general medical procedures, and use them

all

> the time. But as far as the gallbladder cleansing, and keeping the

> organ, you will find it hard to get support from them unless you

just

> want to get it cut out.<<

>

> This is true, I'm sure, in the majority of cases. I just differ

with you in

> my opinion of the reason why.

>

> Debra

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

>>I only found the alternative methods on the internet and have chosen

to keep, repair, and enjoy my digestive organ the way it was meant to

be. I'm sorry that you had your removed from you before you could

find a chance to try and keep it. Unless of course it was damaged

beyond help and had to definitely be cut out. <<

Oh, believe me, I know there is a lot of worthwhile information one can

gather on the internet from places like this, and I am all in favor of them.

I think people should feel more responsible for seeking out alternative

methods, instead of just jumping into sopme medical or surgical procedure

that they are not comfortable with. More power to them!! I tried for three

years to keep my gallbladder, and I am glad I did, but don't feel sorry,

it's been over a year now, and I've never felt better.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

Debra,

I'm happy to hear you are feeling good. Are you currently doing any

of these cleanse methods? Can you share with us which one(s) you have

used to improve your health?

Thanks,

In Health,

Barry.

>

> >>I only found the alternative methods on the internet and have

chosen

> to keep, repair, and enjoy my digestive organ the way it was meant

to

> be. I'm sorry that you had your removed from you before you could

> find a chance to try and keep it. Unless of course it was damaged

> beyond help and had to definitely be cut out. <<

>

> Oh, believe me, I know there is a lot of worthwhile information one

can

> gather on the internet from places like this, and I am all in favor

of them.

> I think people should feel more responsible for seeking out

alternative

> methods, instead of just jumping into sopme medical or surgical

procedure

> that they are not comfortable with. More power to them!! I tried

for three

> years to keep my gallbladder, and I am glad I did, but don't feel

sorry,

> it's been over a year now, and I've never felt better.

>

> Debra

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

>>. Are you currently doing any

of these cleanse methods? Can you share with us which one(s) you have

used to improve your health?<<

Well Barry, I have to say (gulp) that I am doing none of these. I eat

whatever I want, whenever I want. The only thing I do now to ensure good

health is walk, take a few vitamins, drink a lot of water, and watch my

calorie intake so that I don't gain weight. I did gain a little after I

first had surgery, because it was right before Christmas and suddenly I

could eat whatever I wanted. AGAIN, I make the disclaimer that I am not

promoting this as the only or best solution by any means. But I would be

being dishonest if I said that my experience has been anything less than

positive.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

Debra,

This brings me to one more question. I don't mean to pry into your

personal life or anything but like others feel in this group, we like

to know the history or stories of people in our group to know a

little bit about where they are coming from. Especially the ones who

are posting often. I'm just curious, you don't have to answer of

course, but why are you in a " Gallstones cleanse " group if you aren't

currently suffering from some kind of gb problem?

Barry.

>

> >>. Are you currently doing any

> of these cleanse methods? Can you share with us which one(s) you

have

> used to improve your health?<<

>

> Well Barry, I have to say (gulp) that I am doing none of these. I

eat

> whatever I want, whenever I want. The only thing I do now to

ensure good

> health is walk, take a few vitamins, drink a lot of water, and

watch my

> calorie intake so that I don't gain weight. I did gain a little

after I

> first had surgery, because it was right before Christmas and

suddenly I

> could eat whatever I wanted. AGAIN, I make the disclaimer that I

am not

> promoting this as the only or best solution by any means. But I

would be

> being dishonest if I said that my experience has been anything less

than

> positive.

>

> Debra

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

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[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:33 PM

Subject: Re: Human body can't hold 100's of stones

Barry...I believe that practically everyone in the USA has gallstones and

should flush, even if the problem is not apparent. Why wait until

troublesome symptoms develope? This is the best forum to be for guidance if

one choses to undertake a flush. Best wishes, Betsy

I'm just curious, you don't have to answer of

> course, but why are you in a " Gallstones cleanse " group if you aren't

> currently suffering from some kind of gb problem?

>

> Barry.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Betsy,

Apperantly you didn't read my entire post to Debra. I also believe

everyone should (or could) benefit by cleansing the liver.

The question was addressed to Debra who hasn't cleansed.

Thanks for your .02 anyway. Will wait to hear from Debra though.

Barry.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@y...>

> <gallstones@y...>

> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:33 PM

> Subject: Re: Human body can't hold 100's of stones

>

> Barry...I believe that practically everyone in the USA has

gallstones and

> should flush, even if the problem is not apparent. Why wait until

> troublesome symptoms develope? This is the best forum to be for

guidance if

> one choses to undertake a flush. Best wishes, Betsy

>

> I'm just curious, you don't have to answer of

> > course, but why are you in a " Gallstones cleanse " group if you

aren't

> > currently suffering from some kind of gb problem?

> >

> > Barry.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>>I'm just curious, you don't have to answer of

course, but why are you in a " Gallstones cleanse " group if you aren't

currently suffering from some kind of gb problem?<<

Barry,

I don't mind answering at all. (My apologies to those of you who have

already heard this. Delete now.

Actually, I was on this list for at least a year I think before I had my

gallbladder removed, and gathered a lot of useful information and support.

I also heard a lots of " I know someone who...... " horror stories about

surgery. I was terrified of surgery, not only because of the stories, so I

am not blaming my fear on being a member of this group. When I got to the

point where I actually started considering surgery, because I was taking

Percoset every other day, I started talking to a lot of people I know, and

everyone I talked to who had surgery was fine. I have one friend who had

emergency surgery (collapsed at work) who has occasional minor pain that she

doesn't know the cause of. My experience was remarkably easy. The few days

of pain after surgery were nothing compared to the gallbladder attacks.

Now, the reason I stayed on the list.....

I felt so good after surgery, but it seemed as if a lot of people didn't

want to hear that. (Not all.) Where I had found support while suffering, I

felt resentment when I was feeling good. I stayed on-list not to convince

ANYONE that I had made a superior choice, but rather to be of support to

those few people who, like myself, end up having surgery. If someone has

surgery scheduled, I tell them to feel free to e-mail me privately if they

have any questions, and they usually do. I don't want to take up list time

with that conversation. Also, I want to encourage anyone who is undergoing

surgery to insist upon a cholangiogram, to make sure no stones are left in

the bile duct. I NEVER respond to anyone who says, " My doctor told me I need

surgery, but I am glad to have found a place where I can learn about keeping

my gallbladder. " Or something like that. I only offer support to those who

feel that decision is eminent, and even those I remind that their situation

is probably not life-threatening, and that I am not advising them that this

should be their choice or not, just answering thier questions. I guess I am

here to provide a little balance to the " Ohgod, don't have surgery. You'll

still be in pain and never digest anything properly again " mindset. That

does not seem to be the mindset of the majority of people here, most would

just prefer not to have surgery because they feel it is unnecessary and they

want to hold on to their organs. Good for them, what they are doing is

positive.

Sometimes I get involved in the " all doctors are evil-money grubbing,

spawns of satan " conversations, because I don't feel that way, and I don't

think all people here do either. I have a feeling that if most people here

had a seriously sick child, they would appreciate some medical expertise,

which they could decide to agree with or not, but that's another

conversation.

Anyway, hope I answered your question. I support all your efforts for

optimal health. And no.....I am not a paid troll, as I have been accused of

by at least one person. (lol)

Debra

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