AGNES, EVERYONE HELP!

[Guest guest]

i GOT THIS FROM ANOTHER LIST i AM ON AND NEED YOUR ADVICE RIGHT AWAY. IT IS A

BIG LIST AND FOLKS ARE REALLY SLAMMING THE FLUSH. I JUST PRESENTED IT AS A WAY

TO HELP PEOLE. I FEEL REALLY PUT ON THE SPOT HERE. HOW CAN I RESPOND TO THIS

OTHER THAN TO SAY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. NOW THEY THINK WE ARE CAUSING THIS WITH

THE RECIPES! READ IT. I'M SO UPSET!! of Dewberry Hill

,

Not to start an arguement. But, I used to work at NCNM (National

college

of naturopathic medicine) in Portland, OR. It is one of only SIX

accredited

schools in the NATION for Naturopathic meds. There is also an

accredited

college in Canada, but I cannot remember the name of it.

While there we did a test on stone cleansing. Dr. Khalsa and another

Dr

(Sorry, I don't remember her name, it has been over a year since I

worked

there, almost two) put the olive oil, epson salts and grapefruit juice

in a

bowl and let it sit overnight. In the morning he (Dr. Khalsa) hit it

with

hydrochloric acid (stomach acid) and it FORMED the stones that I see on

the

website in the link you sent. So, I don't think I would be doing this.

In all fairness, I do beleive that we are ALL adults and that we can

each

make our own decisions. You have made yours and I have made mine. I

thank

you for your link (I am saving some of the pics for my book on

gallstones)

and I make keep the flush information and pass it on to some other Drs.

I

keep in touch with.

And just so this stays on the topic of survival... This could enduce a

life

threatening situation if, like me, you are severly allergic to

grapefruit.

Grapefruit, unless in severly limited forms (I have found I can have

A-1)

sends me into immediate anaphalactic shock (please excuse the typos)

and I

end up on oxygen. So, while people are making up their minds as to

whether

they want to do the flush or not, keep in mind that you may have an

allergy.

I didn't find out until I had eaten an entire HALF of a grapefruit and

had

to go have my stomach pumped and on oxygen and in the hospital for

three

days.

" People are like stain glass windows; they sparkle and shine when the sun is

out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there

is alight within. " -Kubler Ross

" Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that

followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. "

Holy Bible

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

cozad76078@... writes:

> i GOT THIS FROM ANOTHER LIST i AM ON AND NEED YOUR ADVICE RIGHT AWAY. IT IS

> A BIG LIST AND FOLKS ARE REALLY SLAMMING THE FLUSH. I JUST PRESENTED IT AS

> A WAY TO HELP PEOLE. I FEEL REALLY PUT ON THE SPOT HERE. HOW CAN I RESPOND

> TO THIS OTHER THAN TO SAY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. NOW THEY THINK WE ARE

> CAUSING THIS WITH THE RECIPES! READ IT. I'M SO UPSET!! of

> Dewberry Hill

>

First of all, we don't let this mixture just " sit " overnight. The internal

organs are constantly active and utilizing the mixture and absorbing part of

it and moving it along. That is completely different from letting it sit in

a bowl overnight.

But I would suggest to you that you focus on this part of this person's

comments:

> In all fairness, I do beleive that we are ALL adults and that we can

> each make our own decisions. You have made yours and I have made mine. I

> thank you for your link (I am saving some of the pics for my book on

> gallstones) and I make keep the flush information and pass it on to some

> other Drs.

> I keep in touch with.

This woman is entitled to her opinion and her perspective which is based on

her own experience and the knowledge that she has chosen to allow herself to

absorb. If she is against flushing (as SO many people are), that is

completely her right to have that opinion.

You've shared your information and she has shared hers. If you've shared

with that group about the cleanse and about how to get more information (and

read testimonials, etc..) then it's up to the individuals in the group to

decide what they want to do with that information. I would recomend, for

your own state of mind, that you leave it at that.

" THEY " don't believe that we're creating our own stones - SHE does. She only

speaks for herself. Bottom line is....you're not going to change her mind,

so it's probably best, now that you've presented the information to let it

go.

There are those in that group who will be willing to hear what you've shared

and they will check further into the cleanse. You may never hear about them,

but in a group of any substantial size, there will be those who will give it

a try. So you've done your job.

Remember that the truth will speak for itself - to those who are willing to

listen.

in health,

[Guest guest]

adriennelynn1@... writes:

> (I don't

> know if it is enough to convince , but those of us who have done

> the cleanse and continue to see and experience the benefits of it, know

> the value and truth in it.)

>

Very well put, Adrienne! It's sort of like the story about the blind man who

was healed and when the leaders of the town started pumping him with

questions about who did it and how it was done etc.... he just said " Listen -

once I was blind and now I can see. " His sight was enough for him - he

didn't need to prove anything to anyone else about the process.

There WILL always be those who will attempt to discredit what we are doing.

All I can say is that I know how I used to feel and I know how I feel now.

That's enough to make a believer out of me.

in health

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I know it was disconcerting to get this message. I'm reposting Agnes's

explanation earlier this month-maybe you already saved it? (I don't

know if it is enough to convince , but those of us who have done

the cleanse and continue to see and experience the benefits of it, know

the value and truth in it.)

Adrienne

gallstones

From: " Agnes " <agnes@...> | Block Address | Add to Address

Book

Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:13:35 +0100

Subject: Re: How Many Cleanses??? 1000-2000 stones????

Reply-to: gallstones

><< How could 2000 stones even fit in someone's

>system? Am I the only one to whom these numbers seem illogical?

>I think what people are getting out in the flush is olive oil.

Sound logical to me.

I think those stones are actually olive oil..

You drink yellow oil in the evening, your body converts it into the

stones,

and in the morning you get yellow or greenish, fatty " stones " looking

just

as if they are made from olive oil.

Anyone else doubt that stones are olive oil?

IF YOU SAY YOU DON’T DOUBT IT, I AM GOING TO SHOOT YOU!!! :-)

This message is very long, but I suggest you to save it on your hard

disk

and read it slowly.

You can also read it here:

http://www.curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=58 & C0=2

I will try to test this hypothesis with 10 questions and answers.

================================================

Hypothesis: Stones we get are made over night, inside our intestines,

and

are made from olive oil and bile and other digestive juices.

================================================

Testing hypothesis with 10 questions:

================================================

##################################################

================================================

1. Test Question: If the stones are olive oil, Why do people who

attempt to

flush " gallstones " out get that confirmed by ultrasound?

Example:

<gallstones >

From: " Koeller " <dwkoeller@...>

Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:37:17 -0500

Reply-gallstones

Subject: Success Story

I just wanted to post another success story. I am a 33 year old male. I

started having attacks back in August, while on a vacation in Niagara

Falls

after a heavy meal. I had lost about 25 pounds over the spring and

summer

and I had cutback on eating almost any fat through most of June and

July. I

thought at the time I ate something that was bad and had an episode of

food

poisoning. A couple months later I had another attack early in the

morning

right after consuming a bowl of cereal with milk. Once again I

attributed

it to something I ate and I was ready to get the cereal tested for

poison

or something along those lines due to the severity of the pain and the

fact

that it subsided after I had vomited . My grandparents, mother and

uncle

all had their gallbladders removed later in life, but I never thought

of

myself being afflicted at my age. My mom suggested it might be a

gallbladder attack based on the

description of the pain. I continued with attacks for about one week

straight. I could not even eat any dairy or other fatty foods at all

without suffering for a couple hours with dull pain with occasional

sharp

pains.

I had mentioned my symptoms to a friends father at our church who had

had

severe gallbladder attacks two years ago and was diagnosed with a

gallbladder problem that would probably require surgery. He did the

olive

oil and lemon juice flush. I started researching the flush since he was

not

sure of the exact recipe he had used. I found the following link:

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/Are_You_Stoned.html

I decided to give this recipe a try. I didn’t do any apple juice prep

since

at that point I was having attacks daily and I had already been

diagnosed

by my physician with a gallbladder problem after several days of

continuous

discomfort. I didn't want to wait any longer.

I fasted the next day and tried to get down the 16 oz of olive oil and

8 oz

of lemon juice. I managed to get down about ¾ of it over an hour and a

half

and I couldn’t bear no more and fell asleep on my right side. I could

feel

my gallbladder area surging and I knew something was going on. I

finally

managed to fall asleep and managed to get through until morning. I

didn’t

pass any visible stones, not that I checked all that thoroughly, but I

did

pass a very greenish stool and I felt pretty good.

By 12 noon I felt pretty good and actually got out of the house. My

three

year old had to go to the doctor for some tests which thankfully turned

out

negative that afternoon. My wife decided to treat her to ice cream at

Friendly's that afternoon. I decided I would try to eat a little. I

felt

decent and decided to do a test. I ordered a great big

cheese burger and a large chocolate milk shake. Prior to the flush for

over

a week, even the slightest fat consumption and I was keeled over in

pain, I

figured if I got through this meal okay, then I was cured.

I’m happy to say that I have not had any pain now for the last month

and a

half since I did the flush.

I recently went for an abdominal ultrasound and I was diagnosed with an

empty healthy gallbladder.

The ultrasound technician had had her gallbladder out and mentioned

that

she wish she had known about the flush as well before taking to the

knife.

I plan to do a flush every year as preventive maintenance since this

tends

to run in my family. My mom was amazed with the success and wished she

had

known of this before she had surgery five years ago. It seams that this

recipe was more extreme than others I have read about on

the internet in regards to quantity of oil and lemon juice, but I

figured

the more you get down, the more work it will do. I hope others can

benefit

from the flush. I figure what have you got to lose. Your only taking in

natural items, it's not like your drinking gasoline or something toxic.

Regards,

Dave Koeller

Message: 6

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 15:31:23 -0000

From: ranefjord@...

Subject: irregular shaped stones - hard to flush, but....

Well,,, my problem seems to be that these big irregular shaped stones

dont want to come out, they get stuck before the bile duct. Well, I

had a succesfull cleans a couple of days ago, and got a big irregular

out. They are also much harder that the other ones, beggining to get

calcified.

Well, the good news is that my gallbladder is working for the first

time in ... years probobly. When I eat now i get this 'fluid' -

'getting hungry' - 'bowel movement' sound that I havnt had since I

got sick (ibs - constipation). Hopefully this was the last 'hard to

flush' stone. I have had some real problems flushing, but now Im on

the track again. Lets see what the lecithin and flaxseed really can

do now.

take care - keep on getting healthier!

Jens

------------------------------------------------------

1. Conclusion and Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

2. Test Question: Why do people, who do bowel cleanse, get " fatty

stones "

out, though they didn't take one drop of oil ?

Explanation:

I spoke with many people doing herbal bowel cleanse, and many reported

getting out " fatty stones " .

There is a clinic in Sweden where you can undertake 1 or 2 weeks of

fasting

and bowel cleanse.

People working there say that patients get occasionally gallstones

( " fatty

stones " ) out by just doing herbal bowel cleanse and fasting.

Also, people who do water fast for many days report passing gallstones.

Water fast does not include drinking olive oil.

2. Conclusion and Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

2. Test Question: Why do people, who do bowel cleanse with homozon,

report

getting out " fatty stones " , though they didn't take one drop of oil ?

One Example:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Lambert jim@...

oxyplusonelist

Subject: [oxyplus] Re: liver flush

I've done her (Hulda) flush method, and consider it the best of the

methods I have tried, but BE SURE to deparisitize first,

as Ms. is correct that you will get more stones out

if you do.

Also, you have to do another 2-3 liver cleanses at about 2

months invervals to get them all out.

When you do the first cleanse you will get out the bigger stones

and then the smaller ones will move forward & clog the liver

even more, and you will feel bad again in a couple of months.

It is NOT a one-time thing.

When I started on Homozon several months ago I chose to take it

with the juice of a whole lemon in a glass of orange juice.

I took this twice a day with the Homozon.

Every time I visited the toilet I noticed my movements were pea

green and I swore I saw soft cholesteral stones passing.

In about 7 weeks my liver was all cleaned out, and my bowel

movements turned a light brown & have stayed that way.

All of the upper back pains I had are gone, I can drink coffee

again (tho I only do it rarely) and I can eat pork without

getting a headache.

All of these things confirm my liver is flushed out.

The Homozon is optional for this. IMO it is better to do it

with the Homozon, because the constant trips to the toilet

keeps the toxins being flushed from being reabsorbed

on their way out.

jim

--

jim@...

http://www.doorway.to/madscience

http://www.doorway.to/poetry

ICQ:16531148

amicus certus in re incerta

---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

4. Test Question: Why do some people get " fatty stones " out, in the

evening, before even drinking Olive oil ?

Why do some people get " fatty stones " out, in the morning, after

throwing

up Olive oil in the evening ?

I read reports from people who did liver cleanse, got diarrhea before

10pm

(before drinking olive oil), and got stones in that diarrhea.

Whole that day, they didn't eat fatty foods, no Olive oil.

4. Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

5. Test Question: Why do some people get cured from " incurable " ASTHMA,

Allergies, Cancer, Food Intolerance after liver cleanse and after

passing

numerous " fatty stones " ?

If stones are olive oil, and if liver cleanse is just a way of

producing

" olive oil fatty stones " , then how it comes that people get cured from

INCURABLE diseases by doing cleanses.

------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------

From: " Karma Tucker " <karma@...>

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:22:23 -0500

Reply-gallstones

Subject: liver flush

I don't remember if I posted about my daughter and her cleanse. She is

ten, but has had allergies and asthma for quite some time. When she was

a

baby, she had trouble getting her bowels moving even though I nursed

her.

My husband's grandfather said that her bile was slow to kick in. I have

wondered if these things were reasons that she had allergies and

asthma.

About a month ago, maybe a little longer, she was having some really

bad

asthma problems. I was having to put her on the nebulizing machine each

night for several treatments. I was beginning to think I was going to

have

to take her to the emergency room because we couldn't get her airways

opened up. Each night was getting worse, so we decided to give her a

liver

cleanse. It was a pretty rough night for her even though we gave her

the

Ornithine capsules.

She kept the olive oil down for a few hours, then threw it up, which

was

discouraging to me. I thought we had wasted our time. But the next

morning, she started passing HUGE stones. I had done three cleanses

prior

to this, so knew what she was going to go through. Her stones were much

larger than anything I passed though.

She passed hundreds of small ones, but the most amazing thing was the

amount of large ones she passed. If you put your forefinger and thumb

together to form a circle that is an idea of the size of stones she

passed.

I'm saying at they were over 1 1/2 " in diameter. She passed about 15 of

them this size and one that was even bigger. It was about the size of a

golf ball!!! I was teasing her that her liver wasn't even as big at

these

HUGE things coming out of her. The most important thing about it was

that

she hasn't had an asthma attack since!

That is incredible.

Another benefit that I have notice from both of them, plus myself is

weight

coming off. My daughter lost about ten pounds, which put her right

where

she needed to be for her age and height. My husband lost weight, but it

is

too soon to see if it will stay off. :-)

~Karma

------------------------------------------------

Message: 5

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:50:11 -0000

From: woman1998a@...

Subject: Many cleanses... and still going on

I'm the ONLY one of 36 cousins who has NOT had her gallbladder

removed. My family fits the " fair, fat and forty " profile. I've done

at least 12 cleanses over the past 5 years and I KNOW I've prevented

surgery.

For me, I had interesting symptoms... yellowish eyes, shoulder pain,

nausea, and after each cleanse, all have lessened or disappeared.

It took at least 4 cleanses before the really BIG stones came

forward. Since, all the stones that come out are not calcified or

even the slightest hard.

When I am losing weight, and metabolizing my own fat, they are the

black stones. Nothing is going to keep me from cleansing.

My 72 year old mother has had numerous tests and a diagnosis of

collagenous colitis. I've begged her, for years to do a cleanse.

Finally out of desperation, years of vomiting after eating and

continuous runs, she did it. You would NOT believe what she passed on

the very first cleanse. On repeated, she kept passing stones.

Immediately she stopped vomited. Her skin improved. She had classic

liver itching.

I am a firm believer that this is something that should be as routine

as brushing our teeth or blowing our nose.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Other References scroll down:

5. Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

6. Test Question: Why do " fatty stones " that some people get out look

exactly like stones on those photos?

References:

1. Pictures showing gallbladder removed and gallstones:

http://www.curezone.com/image_gallery/gallbladder_removed/

2. Pictures showing liver and intrahepatic stones:

http://www.curezone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

References to this question can be found here:

http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

6. Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

7. Test Question: Why are not all " fatty stones " that some people get

the

same color and density?

Explanation: Many people reported getting stones of different color:

Black,

RED, White, Yellow, Multiple colors,...

References:

http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

7. Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not pass test question

================================================

##################################################

================================================

8. Test Question: Why don't people get always the same amount of " fatty

stones " ?

Explanation:

If you always take the same amount (1/2 cup) of olive oil, it would be

logical to always get out the same (or similar) amount of " fatty

stones " ?

Wouldn't that be logical ?

I have done over 20 cleanses, sometimes I got many stones, sometimes 0.

People reported getting in one cleanse from 0 stones, up to amount

larger

then the amount of oil.

Sometimes, amount of stones was double the amount of olive oil !!!!!

Few stories to illustrate this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

I must underline, that I showed the stones to my aunt, and

she refused to believe me that those were gallbladder

stones. I warned her, not to open the lid of the box,

because of the unpleasant smell, but she did. Even today,

she is in a shock. She cannot believe what happened.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References:

http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

10. Answer: Stones are not made from olive oil.

Hypothesis did not satisfy test question!

================================================

##################################################

================================================

OK.

Enough testing.

There are 15 more selected stories used in testing of this hypothesis

here:

http://www.curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=58 & C0=2

Anyone still believes that stones are actually olive oil ?

IF YOU SAY YOU DO, I AM GOING TO SHOOT YOU!!! :-)

Well, sound logical to me.

I still think those stones are actually olive oil. But, forgive me, I

am ...

Regards

Agnes

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> put the olive oil, epson salts and grapefruit juice in a bowl and let it sit

overnight. In the morning he (Dr. Khalsa) hit it

>with hydrochloric acid (stomach acid) and it FORMED the stones that I see on

the website in the link you sent. So, I don't think I would be doing this.

>And just so this stays on the topic of survival... This could enduce a life

threatening situation if, like me, you are severly allergic to

>grapefruit. Grapefruit, unless in severly limited forms (I have found I can

have A-1)

,

There are few problems with 's opinion.

Have she actually seen this happening in front of her eyes, or was that just a

story she heard from Dr.?

I am very skeptical person myself, and in the last 5 years, more then 10 times,

I have tried many different combinations of olive oil and other ingredients,

(often in front of other skeptical people) in order to get stones " in vitro " .

We tried heating it on body temperature, exposing it to high pressure, leaving

it for days, weeks, keeping it frozen, refrigerated, exposing it to sun light,

adding table salt,

vinegar, unrefined salt, differnt kind of juice ...

I don't remember all what we tried to make stones or at least gelatinous

consistence that could be formed into stones.

We did not come even close.

I have tried blending olive oil with grapefruit juice, ES, water and with HCL

(in different proportions) (HCL in liquid form, diluted in water).

The only ingredient (most important) I didn't try is Bile, because I don’t have

it, but I will try to get hold on pig or cow gallbladder, with bile in it, and

experiment with it.

I never got even close to gallstones that people get out by flushing.

I don't know what exact proportions Dr. Khalsa, has used, but I must say I will

believe this story when I see it with my eyes.

I am just too skeptical to believe Internet stories.

One thing I doubt very much is that Dr. Khalsa got green color, and that stones

have been round !!!!!!

That part of the ’s story smell's bad. Just my opinion.

Unless you add bile (green), there is no way you will get green stones from

those ingredients.

Whatever of the ingredients you mix olive oil with, you get yellow color.

Even with " greenest " olive oil you can get.

(The " greenest " olive oil is oil pressed in august/September, and it has very

strong taste.)

I don't say that this story is made up, it as well can be truth, but I must say

I will believe in it once I repeat the same experiment and I get something that

is close to stones.

And, this story still does not explain why do people improve health, or

suddenly get healthy gallbladder, after flush.

The second part of 's story is not valid reason to avoid flush.

If you know you are allergic, it is obvious you are not going to attempt using

grapefruit for liver flush!?

This story prooves that Those people who may need flush more then others

(suffering from allergies), have 0 chance in curing because of their attitude,

and can not be cured unless they attempt to make changes in their spiritual /

mental heritage which is the deeper reason for their attitude and poor health.

I knew many people who attempted to cure cancer with " proven " therapies (scared

by docs), but came back to me few months or one year later, after " proven "

therapies failed to cure them. Unfortunately, one year (and the chance to be

cured) was lost, and most of them died, blaming alt-med therapies for being

quackery.

Arrogance toward alternatives is very special and common attitude, and has cost

many people health and life.

It just proves old saying: " All diseases are curable, but not all people. "

You can't help to those who don't want to be helped!

But, you can ignore them, to avoid being frustrated :-)

Therapies that have potential to change attitude are spiritual therapies,

psychotherapies, prayers, ... actually few alt-skeptics will ever attend any of

those therapies...

You can direct to this page:

http://www.curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=58 & C0=733 & C1=2

And ask her if she (or Dr.Khalsa) has an explanation for those questions, that

I can't explain:

===================================

- Why do people who flush, get ultrasound (or attack free) confirmation that GB

is clean?

(We have at least 4 - 8 stories posted, archived on this list)

- Why do people, who do bowel cleanse, get ”fatty stones” out, though they

didn’t take one drop of oil?

- Why do some people get ”fatty stones” out, in the evening, before even

drinking Olive oil? Are their stones made from ES+Water+HCl?

- Why do some people get ”fatty stones” out, in the morning, after throwing up

all of Olive oil in the evening?

- Why is the amount of stones sometimes many times bigger then the amount of

oil?

- Why do some people get cured from ”incurable”: ASTHMA, Allergies, Cancer,

shoulder pain, indigestion, arthritis, food Intolerance... after liver cleanse

and after passing numerous ”fatty stones”?

- If the stones are made from olive oil, then analyzes would actually confirm

that? All people who did analyze confirmed cholesterol!

- If the stones were made from olive oil, then they would smell like olive oil

or like bile or feces? Logical?

- How does he explain multicolor stones like: Black Stones, Red stones, Blue

stones, white stones.... Many people reported specific color of stones.

===================================

In the archive of gallstones group, (use search engine), you will find at least

1 message supporting those facts, and usually more then 10 stories.

, feel free to use this e-mail for whatever reason you may have.

Agnes

[Guest guest]

Hi Dianna,

I didn't think that response was slamming you. She was just relating her

personal experience. She said that you were an adult, and free to make your

own choices, and seemed respectful. You may not have wanted to hear about

that experiment, but it was definitely not slamming. Shouldn't her evidence

be conseidered as valid and as worthy of investigating as is yours?

Just an opinion,

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

I looked him up on the net and he still works at the NCNM and is the dean.

He should be easy to get in touch with. Anybody care to get in touch with

him and ask about his experiment?

----- Original Message -----

From: " Agnes " <agnes@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: AGNES, EVERYONE HELP!

> > put the olive oil, epson salts and grapefruit juice in a bowl and let it

sit

> overnight. In the morning he (Dr. Khalsa) hit it

> >with hydrochloric acid (stomach acid) and it FORMED the stones that I see

on

> the website in the link you sent. So, I don't think I would be doing

this.

>

> >And just so this stays on the topic of survival... This could enduce a

life

> threatening situation if, like me, you are severly allergic to

> >grapefruit. Grapefruit, unless in severly limited forms (I have found I

can

> have A-1)

>

>

> ,

>

> There are few problems with 's opinion.

>

> Have she actually seen this happening in front of her eyes, or was that

just a

> story she heard from Dr.?

>

> I am very skeptical person myself, and in the last 5 years, more then 10

times,

> I have tried many different combinations of olive oil and other

ingredients,

> (often in front of other skeptical people) in order to get stones " in

vitro " .

>

>

> We tried heating it on body temperature, exposing it to high pressure,

leaving

> it for days, weeks, keeping it frozen, refrigerated, exposing it to sun

light,

> adding table salt,

> vinegar, unrefined salt, differnt kind of juice ...

>

> I don't remember all what we tried to make stones or at least gelatinous

> consistence that could be formed into stones.

>

> We did not come even close.

>

> I have tried blending olive oil with grapefruit juice, ES, water and with

HCL

> (in different proportions) (HCL in liquid form, diluted in water).

>

> The only ingredient (most important) I didn't try is Bile, because I don't

have

> it, but I will try to get hold on pig or cow gallbladder, with bile in it,

and

> experiment with it.

>

> I never got even close to gallstones that people get out by flushing.

>

> I don't know what exact proportions Dr. Khalsa, has used, but I must say I

will

> believe this story when I see it with my eyes.

> I am just too skeptical to believe Internet stories.

>

>

> One thing I doubt very much is that Dr. Khalsa got green color, and that

stones

> have been round !!!!!!

>

> That part of the 's story smell's bad. Just my opinion.

>

> Unless you add bile (green), there is no way you will get green stones

from

> those ingredients.

>

>

> Whatever of the ingredients you mix olive oil with, you get yellow color.

>

> Even with " greenest " olive oil you can get.

> (The " greenest " olive oil is oil pressed in august/September, and it has

very

> strong taste.)

>

>

> I don't say that this story is made up, it as well can be truth, but I

must say

> I will believe in it once I repeat the same experiment and I get something

that

> is close to stones.

>

> And, this story still does not explain why do people improve health, or

> suddenly get healthy gallbladder, after flush.

>

>

> The second part of 's story is not valid reason to avoid flush.

> If you know you are allergic, it is obvious you are not going to attempt

using

> grapefruit for liver flush!?

>

>

> This story prooves that Those people who may need flush more then others

> (suffering from allergies), have 0 chance in curing because of their

attitude,

> and can not be cured unless they attempt to make changes in their

spiritual /

> mental heritage which is the deeper reason for their attitude and poor

health.

>

> I knew many people who attempted to cure cancer with " proven " therapies

(scared

> by docs), but came back to me few months or one year later, after

" proven "

> therapies failed to cure them. Unfortunately, one year (and the chance to

be

> cured) was lost, and most of them died, blaming alt-med therapies for

being

> quackery.

>

> Arrogance toward alternatives is very special and common attitude, and has

cost

> many people health and life.

>

> It just proves old saying: " All diseases are curable, but not all

people. "

>

> You can't help to those who don't want to be helped!

>

> But, you can ignore them, to avoid being frustrated :-)

>

>

> Therapies that have potential to change attitude are spiritual therapies,

> psychotherapies, prayers, ... actually few alt-skeptics will ever attend

any of

> those therapies...

>

>

>

> You can direct to this page:

> http://www.curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=58 & C0=733 & C1=2

>

> And ask her if she (or Dr.Khalsa) has an explanation for those questions,

that

> I can't explain:

>

> ===================================

> - Why do people who flush, get ultrasound (or attack free) confirmation

that GB

> is clean?

> (We have at least 4 - 8 stories posted, archived on this list)

>

> - Why do people, who do bowel cleanse, get " fatty stones " out, though they

> didn't take one drop of oil?

>

> - Why do some people get " fatty stones " out, in the evening, before even

> drinking Olive oil? Are their stones made from ES+Water+HCl?

>

> - Why do some people get " fatty stones " out, in the morning, after

throwing up

> all of Olive oil in the evening?

>

> - Why is the amount of stones sometimes many times bigger then the amount

of

> oil?

>

> - Why do some people get cured from " incurable " : ASTHMA, Allergies,

Cancer,

> shoulder pain, indigestion, arthritis, food Intolerance... after liver

cleanse

> and after passing numerous " fatty stones " ?

>

> - If the stones are made from olive oil, then analyzes would actually

confirm

> that? All people who did analyze confirmed cholesterol!

>

>

> - If the stones were made from olive oil, then they would smell like olive

oil

> or like bile or feces? Logical?

>

> - How does he explain multicolor stones like: Black Stones, Red stones,

Blue

> stones, white stones.... Many people reported specific color of stones.

>

> ===================================

>

> In the archive of gallstones group, (use search engine), you will find at

least

> 1 message supporting those facts, and usually more then 10 stories.

>

>

> , feel free to use this e-mail for whatever reason you may have.

>

> Agnes

>

>

>

> Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories:

> http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

>

> Liver Cleanse Recipe:

> http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

>

> Images:

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

>

> Post message: gallstones

> Receive no-mail: gallstones-nomail

> Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe

>

> Web Sites for more information:

> http://CureZone.com/gallstones/

> http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

>

> Group page: gallstones

>

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>

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>

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yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> Have a nice day !

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " of Dewberry Hill " <cozad76078@...>

<gallstones >

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 3:04 AM

Subject: AGNES, EVERYONE HELP!

.....if the flushes are making you feel better as they do for many,

many other people, don't even try to argue with these sceptics as it will

just wear you down. For anyone's information, flushes are taught in many

naturopathic healing programs and are considered crucial in the process of

recovering from many serious, life threatening diseases. If you want to

stay on that other list for some reason, I would just ignore their tirades

against liver flushes and refuse to discuss it with them any further because

you can't win. Betsy

> i GOT THIS FROM ANOTHER LIST i AM ON AND NEED YOUR ADVICE RIGHT AWAY. IT

IS A BIG LIST AND FOLKS ARE REALLY SLAMMING THE FLUSH. I JUST PRESENTED IT

AS A WAY TO HELP PEOLE. I FEEL REALLY PUT ON THE SPOT HERE. HOW CAN I

RESPOND TO THIS OTHER THAN TO SAY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. NOW THEY THINK WE ARE

CAUSING THIS WITH THE RECIPES! READ IT. I'M SO UPSET!! of

Dewberry Hill

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Debra,

IMO, what was upsetting for was the fact that people were

saying/implying that the liver flush is not what " we " claim it to be.

She said " folks are slamming, " so I'm assuming she wasn't just speaking

of . I agree that 's post was respectful. However, none of us

wants to be doing something that would be detrimental to our health,

and it appears that this is one of their claims...either that, or we

are doing something totally useless. So, from that perspective, it's

understandable that would be upset.

Adrienne

--- D B <fairyflight@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Dianna,

>

> I didn't think that response was slamming you. She was just relating

> her

> personal experience. She said that you were an adult, and free to

> make your

> own choices, and seemed respectful. You may not have wanted to hear

> about

> that experiment, but it was definitely not slamming. Shouldn't her

> evidence

> be conseidered as valid and as worthy of investigating as is yours?

>

> Just an opinion,

> Debra

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

I would first answer like this....

GB attacks? Options..

#1. Try and save your vital digestive organ by cleaning, flushing

your liver/gb back to health.

#2. Let them cut out your gb and live with the consequences of

possible bad digesting in the future.

Also...

Pain is the main thing we all want to avoid. If flushing stops pain

then keep doing it. Why remove the organ to stop the pain if flushing

and getting your body to work right will accomplish that.

Telling your own testimony is the strongest defense that you have.

What works for some may not be believed by others. Look at the

example of Christ for instance. Some believe while others don't.

Testimony may convince someone to read the curezone site and judge

the process for themselves. That's good enough. There will always be

people who doubt, even us!!!, but if the pain stops, you feel better,

AND you still have your gb than more power to you!!!

Just some thoughts.

Barry.

--- In gallstones@y..., of Dewberry Hill <cozad76078@y...>

wrote:

>

> i GOT THIS FROM ANOTHER LIST i AM ON AND NEED YOUR ADVICE RIGHT

AWAY. IT IS A BIG LIST AND FOLKS ARE REALLY SLAMMING THE FLUSH. I

JUST PRESENTED IT AS A WAY TO HELP PEOLE. I FEEL REALLY PUT ON THE

SPOT HERE. HOW CAN I RESPOND TO THIS OTHER THAN TO SAY WHAT HAPPENED

TO ME. NOW THEY THINK WE ARE CAUSING THIS WITH THE RECIPES! READ IT.

I'M SO UPSET!! of Dewberry Hill

>

> ,

>

> Not to start an arguement. But, I used to work at NCNM (National

> college

> of naturopathic medicine) in Portland, OR. It is one of only SIX

> accredited

> schools in the NATION for Naturopathic meds. There is also an

> accredited

> college in Canada, but I cannot remember the name of it.

>

> While there we did a test on stone cleansing. Dr. Khalsa and

another

> Dr

> (Sorry, I don't remember her name, it has been over a year since I

> worked

> there, almost two) put the olive oil, epson salts and grapefruit

juice

> in a

> bowl and let it sit overnight. In the morning he (Dr. Khalsa) hit

it

> with

> hydrochloric acid (stomach acid) and it FORMED the stones that I

see on

> the

> website in the link you sent. So, I don't think I would be doing

this.

>

> In all fairness, I do beleive that we are ALL adults and that we

can

> each

> make our own decisions. You have made yours and I have made mine.

I

> thank

> you for your link (I am saving some of the pics for my book on

> gallstones)

> and I make keep the flush information and pass it on to some other

Drs.

> I

> keep in touch with.

>

> And just so this stays on the topic of survival... This could

enduce a

> life

> threatening situation if, like me, you are severly allergic to

> grapefruit.

> Grapefruit, unless in severly limited forms (I have found I can

have

> A-1)

> sends me into immediate anaphalactic shock (please excuse the

typos)

> and I

> end up on oxygen. So, while people are making up their minds as to

> whether

> they want to do the flush or not, keep in mind that you may have an

> allergy.

> I didn't find out until I had eaten an entire HALF of a grapefruit

and

> had

> to go have my stomach pumped and on oxygen and in the hospital for

> three

> days.

>

>

>

>

>

> " People are like stain glass windows; they sparkle and shine when

the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is

revealed only if there is alight within. " -Kubler Ross

> " Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the

world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall

have the light of life. " Holy Bible

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

>>IMO, what was upsetting for was the fact that people were

saying/implying that the liver flush is not what " we " claim it to be.

She said " folks are slamming, " so I'm assuming she wasn't just speaking

of . I agree that 's post was respectful. However, none of us

wants to be doing something that would be detrimental to our health,

and it appears that this is one of their claims...either that, or we

are doing something totally useless. So, from that perspective, it's

understandable that would be upset.<<

True, maybe some folks were not respectful. may feel that it is

useless. So what? It has no affect on what chooses to do. It can

only bother her if she chooses to let it do so. We have had people get

upset with others on this list for their opinion on meat-eating. I've been

called a troll for saying I'm healthy after surgery. The fact of the matter

is, we can hear each other's opinion without having to convince others that

they are wrong. Even after respectfully exchanging information, and

will probably still disagree, and that's OK. It only becomes a

problem when somebody feels that they have to have the definitive, last word

in the debate.

Debra

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