Re: Can someone help me with wording

December 2, 2008

Has your mother shown up with gifts like that before?

Or are you doing some preventative fantasizing?

If she has a history of behaving like that, then it's a great idea to

put a clear boundary AND CONSEQUENCES in writing, and send it certified

mail.

If, on the other hand, you're just stressed about what *might*

happen...well, that might be a little different. I mean, it's good to

have a plan in place, but what if she doesn't do what you see in your

mind's eye? What if she leaves you alone and your son's birthday and

Christmas are perfectly peaceful?

I was very nervous about LC with my parents when I first did it. I

imagined they'd just show up at my house, or try to get into the kids'

schools or something. " What if they ____? " I said to my therapist.

And she looked me square in the eye and said, " You don't need to worry

about that now. If that ever happened, you know what to do. " And she

was right. They've never dropped by unannounced. They don't stalk

us. They've never gone to the kids' schools. They left us alone. But

I do know what to do if it ever happens in the future. I know how to

set and enforce my boundaries. I know the number to the local police

department. I know how to talk with the school principals. We'd be

just fine.

What I'm saying is, I wasted a lot of energy trying to survive a

disaster that has never happened. I understand that it comes naturally

to us KOs--I've always done disaster-drills in my head, for everything

from home invasions to kidnapping. It's one thing to be prepared, but

another thing to get weighed down by it all. So take some time, make

your disaster plan, and then go on with your life. Real disasters are

actually quite rare.

kt

December 2, 2008

I think if you were to consult with a psychiatrist and tell him

exactly all this crazy stuff your mother has done (particularly the

suicide threats) and is still doing, he could give you a letter that

you could take to a lawyer who could get you a restraining order to

keep your mentally ill mother away from you and your kids.

Although it sounds like you want to keep her away, still, you seem to

be allowing her to run roughshod over you. You are still afraid of her.

Please don't let her damage your kids; have courage, stand strong and

just tell her on the phone that she has violated your boundaries for

the last time and is not invited to the upcoming events. Period.

Maybe hire a bodyguard for the events, and have the parties at a place

she doesn't know about.

If she will not respect your wishes and physically shows up where she

is not invited, that's just way too aggressively invasive in my book.

Get a restraining order and hire an off-duty cop to keep her out, sez I.

-Annie

>

> I'll give a brief history. I've been NC for 2 (peaceful) months.

> Nada goes into rages, tells lies to the family about me. I've gone

> NC on and off for the past few years. About 3 years ago she called

> me and told me she was comitting suicide because I wouldn't do what

> she told me to do (which was impossible, had to do with my brother

> and legal issues not involving me at all) then she took her pills so

> I could hear her try to kill herself. I stopped talking to her,

> disrag father called for months saying I could help her if I would

> talk to her. I said she needed a therapist and wouldn't talk to her

> until she saw one. She found one that told her it is perfectly

> normal to try to commit suicide and blame your kids. Her therapist

> repeadily tells her she is " normal "

>

> She says cruel, hurtful things, has my whole life. She's done some

> mind games with my kids, plays on their little minds. She's the type

> that loves to hurt people and make them cry. I was the target for

> years, now she is going for the kids since I've built a wall and she

> hasn't made me cry in years (yay me, I'm getting somewhere)

>

> Anyway....my son's birthday is coming and I KNOW she will blow

> through that boundary which I have told them to stay away from us.

> I'll tell you exactly what will happen here: She'll show up at the

> door with a big gift in hand (how she gets the kids on her hook) and

> my son, only 5 will be sobbing uncontrollably wanting to open the

> door (if he doesn't do it before I get there and let the sick thing

> into my home) He'll be screaming/crying wanting the gift and I'll be

> the horrible mother trying to keep that thing (with her smirk on

> because my kid is crying and lashing out on me and she knows she

> caused it and has control) out of my home. My child's birthday will

> be ruined. She'll likely leave the gift on the steps if I don't open

> the door or allow him to. I refuse to accept it, refuse. He'll see it

> and start bawling again, afterall, he is a kid. No more blood gifts.

> None.

>

> Same scenario for Christmas. We'lll be opening gifts with the

> children, trying to have a peaceful Christmas and that sick thing

> will be at my doorstep again. Another ruined holiday. She wouldn't

> have it any other way.

>

> She called my aunt the other day with that sick laugh of hers

> saying " do you think she'll let me give the kids gifts? " Ha ha.

> Translation: I don't give a chit what SHE wants, I do what I want, I

> have no respect for others-I am showing up with gifts to try to lure

> the kids into my sick little world.

>

> So....I need to send them a letter to tell them to STAY AWAY from me

> and my family. I am not good with words and do NOT want it to start

> any sort of conversation/dialoge/argument whatsoever. I want it to be

> to the point, saying don 't you have the audacity to show up here, we

> don't want to see you and we won't accept your gifts in person or by

> mail. We are done.

>

> I'd really like a peaceful December and I would appreciate any advice

> with wording anyone might have (I've seen a lot of you say/word

> things so perfectly but for me the anger is taking over) for me to

> send a concrete letter to them. Not mean/nasty, just to the point so

> they leave me alone and we can celebrate with our children in peace.

>

> Thanks in advance for your help.

>

December 2, 2008

Thanks KT,

I am fairly certain she will show up. She blows through every

boundary I have created. For instance, we were seeing them 1x a

month. I was sick all day when the day came but got it over with

and " took my beating " for the month. During one of those dinners,

they got info out of my 4 year old on an event we would be at.

They called and said 'we want to come to his activity, but don't know

where it is, please let us know where and what time " I did not

call back. The sick things knew darn well where and when because

they pulled it out of a 4 year old.

Another message (unreturned, because again, 1x a month was all I

could handle-which I think was pretty nice considering the abuse I

have endured for over 30 years) said " please call us back and let us

know if it is alright if we can come. " This *appears* normal to

many, but it is just how she plays the " game. "

WHAM, they show up at the activity. Smiling. Head in the air. I

say " what are you doing here? " Sick things say " we wanted to see him

at his activity " I say " you left a message saying to call you if it

was okay, you didn't get a call back, it is NOT okay " She smugly

keeps walking--she is coming to this thing whether I like it or not.

I tell them to enjoy seeing my kids it is the last time we are seeing

them because they can't respect boundaries. She is screaming that I

don't need to have any boundaries (translation-she's coming for me

whether I like it or not) She is screaming that they are taking me

to court for grandparent rights.

Yes, they just show up. She wakes up that day and gets it in her head

and she's coming. A few years ago she came and I opened the door and

she smacked me and was hitting me, in front of my toddler. Pictures

were coming off the walls (that she was throwing me into) and my

toddler was sobbing. I called the cops and they came and took me

outside to get me away from her. When I went back in she tried to hit

me and the cop pulled her back--so she hit him. He told her if she

hit him again she'd be arrested so she slapped him in the face. He's

not going to tell her what to do, if she wants to abuse her grown

daugher in front of her grandchild (that she loooooves so much) then

she is going to do it. No one tells her what to do. She can abuse

who she wants when she wants.

And so the story goes--boo hoo for her---her daughter " had her

arrested. " She denied hitting the cop. She told the truth when it

first happened but the story is coming up again and she is changing

it. " I would NEVER hit the cop, my daughter makes that up. " The

family is perpetuating the new lie she has created. I'd like to get

a copy of the police report, copy it, and send it to every family

member with an " FYI " on it. Let them know that sicko is lying.

Anyway, I am on a tangent here with anger just thinking about it.

What else is new?!

Yes they will appear on my door. It isn't an invalid fear, it is

going to happen. My therapist thinks I need to head it off before it

happens with a clear letter. I don't have the ability to write a

clear letter and have seen some good ways of wording other things

here so thought maybe those who have ideas could help. They will be

on my doorstep with a gift trying to lure my kids out. It is part of

the sick pattern and I'd be shocked if it didn't happen.

It's funny, DH will always say " oh don't worry, they won't do XYZ,

NEVER, EVER, you are being ridiculous worrying " and then WHAM, they

get me by the throat, as usual. He sits there saying " I really

thought she would know better by now. " She doesn't know better. She

knows she is the queen who will control people whether they like it

or not.

I sit in my house with such anxiety everytime I hear a door slam

outside thinking they are coming for me. It will happen this month.

she's already " preparing " for it, as her action of calling my aunt

laughing about it because she knows she'll do what she wants. And if

she can leave here making a kid cry, bingo, she hit the emotional

high jackpot.

If anyone has any help in wording a letter to try to head this off, I

would appreciate it.

>

> Has your mother shown up with gifts like that before?

>

> Or are you doing some preventative fantasizing?

>

> If she has a history of behaving like that, then it's a great idea

to

> put a clear boundary AND CONSEQUENCES in writing, and send it

certified

> mail.

>

> If, on the other hand, you're just stressed about what *might*

> happen...well, that might be a little different. I mean, it's good

to

> have a plan in place, but what if she doesn't do what you see in

your

> mind's eye? What if she leaves you alone and your son's birthday

and

> Christmas are perfectly peaceful?

>

> I was very nervous about LC with my parents when I first did it. I

> imagined they'd just show up at my house, or try to get into the

kids'

> schools or something. " What if they ____? " I said to my

therapist.

> And she looked me square in the eye and said, " You don't need to

worry

> about that now. If that ever happened, you know what to do. " And

she

> was right. They've never dropped by unannounced. They don't stalk

> us. They've never gone to the kids' schools. They left us alone.

But

> I do know what to do if it ever happens in the future. I know how

to

> set and enforce my boundaries. I know the number to the local

police

> department. I know how to talk with the school principals. We'd

be

> just fine.

>

> What I'm saying is, I wasted a lot of energy trying to survive a

> disaster that has never happened. I understand that it comes

naturally

> to us KOs--I've always done disaster-drills in my head, for

everything

> from home invasions to kidnapping. It's one thing to be prepared,

but

> another thing to get weighed down by it all. So take some time,

make

> your disaster plan, and then go on with your life. Real disasters

are

> actually quite rare.

>

> kt

>

December 2, 2008

Thanks Annie,

yes, you are right, I am still afraid. It is my job to protect my

kids but it is becoming increasingly difficult when they constantly

show up at my house. My heart races with anxiety when I hear car

doors outside my house. It is absolutely a matter of time before

they come here to start with me and lure my kids into their trap.

Hiring an off-duty cop woudn't work, we don't have the money for that

and she'd only end up hitting him if he told her she can't come near

me. And quite frankly, I shouldn't have to shell out money to have

peace. Everyone in life deserves peace and it has taken me over 30

years to realize I deserve it too. She needs to get out of my life

for good and I can't understand why she doesn't. I've stood firm and

believe I have had a lot of courage but I don't think it matters. She

gets what she wants when she wants it. She's got a lot of enablers on

her side pushing for her, too. That is why I can't even do LC,

because there is no way to appease her with that and keep her at arms

length. She needs to be out of my life.

I dont' want to encourage any type of correspondence or anything but

my therapist also believes from her past actions that they are

showing up and thinks I should head it off in a letter. I'd rather

have no contact whatsoever but I guess a letter is better than my kid

bawling on his birthday while she is trying to get him to open the

door with a present.

I'm just at a loss on how to head this off and get them out of my

life for good.

> >

> > I'll give a brief history. I've been NC for 2 (peaceful) months.

> > Nada goes into rages, tells lies to the family about me. I've

gone

> > NC on and off for the past few years. About 3 years ago she

called

> > me and told me she was comitting suicide because I wouldn't do

what

> > she told me to do (which was impossible, had to do with my

brother

> > and legal issues not involving me at all) then she took her

pills so

> > I could hear her try to kill herself. I stopped talking to her,

> > disrag father called for months saying I could help her if I

would

> > talk to her. I said she needed a therapist and wouldn't talk to

her

> > until she saw one. She found one that told her it is perfectly

> > normal to try to commit suicide and blame your kids. Her

therapist

> > repeadily tells her she is " normal "

> >

> > She says cruel, hurtful things, has my whole life. She's done

some

> > mind games with my kids, plays on their little minds. She's the

type

> > that loves to hurt people and make them cry. I was the target for

> > years, now she is going for the kids since I've built a wall and

she

> > hasn't made me cry in years (yay me, I'm getting somewhere)

> >

> > Anyway....my son's birthday is coming and I KNOW she will blow

> > through that boundary which I have told them to stay away from

us.

> > I'll tell you exactly what will happen here: She'll show up at

the

> > door with a big gift in hand (how she gets the kids on her hook)

and

> > my son, only 5 will be sobbing uncontrollably wanting to open the

> > door (if he doesn't do it before I get there and let the sick

thing

> > into my home) He'll be screaming/crying wanting the gift and I'll

be

> > the horrible mother trying to keep that thing (with her smirk on

> > because my kid is crying and lashing out on me and she knows she

> > caused it and has control) out of my home. My child's birthday

will

> > be ruined. She'll likely leave the gift on the steps if I don't

open

> > the door or allow him to. I refuse to accept it, refuse. He'll

see it

> > and start bawling again, afterall, he is a kid. No more blood

gifts.

> > None.

> >

> > Same scenario for Christmas. We'lll be opening gifts with the

> > children, trying to have a peaceful Christmas and that sick thing

> > will be at my doorstep again. Another ruined holiday. She

wouldn't

> > have it any other way.

> >

> > She called my aunt the other day with that sick laugh of hers

> > saying " do you think she'll let me give the kids gifts? " Ha ha.

> > Translation: I don't give a chit what SHE wants, I do what I

want, I

> > have no respect for others-I am showing up with gifts to try to

lure

> > the kids into my sick little world.

> >

> > So....I need to send them a letter to tell them to STAY AWAY from

me

> > and my family. I am not good with words and do NOT want it to

start

> > any sort of conversation/dialoge/argument whatsoever. I want it

to be

> > to the point, saying don 't you have the audacity to show up

here, we

> > don't want to see you and we won't accept your gifts in person or

by

> > mail. We are done.

> >

> > I'd really like a peaceful December and I would appreciate any

advice

> > with wording anyone might have (I've seen a lot of you say/word

> > things so perfectly but for me the anger is taking over) for me

to

> > send a concrete letter to them. Not mean/nasty, just to the point

so

> > they leave me alone and we can celebrate with our children in

peace.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your help.

> >

>

December 2, 2008

---

Along the same lines as the previous poster, could you have the party

at your house on another day? maybe the day before his actual bday?

and maybe celebrate Xmas on Xmas eve or something? I know this isn't

answering your question about wording. But I think they listen to

actions better than words anyway. Otherwise, maybe you should

consider drastic moves such as a restraining order or moving. I know

that those are horrible options.

Also, beware of other relatives and triangulating...She sent a

message to you thru your aunt, and no doubt a message was sent back

to nada...so you are communicating, just not directly.

She sounds horrible. I'm glad mine is older, not so energetic, and I

live 8 hours away...

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " happyout " wrote:

>

> Im sorry about what Im going to say but could you not be at your

> house for your childs birthday and have the party somewehere else?

It

> happens alot where I live - have the kids over to a playcentre for

> two hours and then hit the movies?

>

> And for Christmas it is possible to plan to arrange to have them

> over and not be there - say something terrible happened and you

were

> delayed - Im so sorry about those terrible suggestions - beat her

at

> her own game - very PA, but fighting them I find with real normal

> reactions and feelings lets them know they are getting me to and

> gives them fuel and others fuel to keep playing.

>

> I couldnt resist giving another perspective - but you're right -

> there are people here who have all the right words.

>

> >

> > I'll give a brief history. I've been NC for 2 (peaceful) months.

> > Nada goes into rages, tells lies to the family about me. I've

gone

> > NC on and off for the past few years. About 3 years ago she

called

> > me and told me she was comitting suicide because I wouldn't do

what

> > she told me to do (which was impossible, had to do with my

brother

> > and legal issues not involving me at all) then she took her

pills

> so

> > I could hear her try to kill herself. I stopped talking to her,

> > disrag father called for months saying I could help her if I

would

> > talk to her. I said she needed a therapist and wouldn't talk to

her

> > until she saw one. She found one that told her it is perfectly

> > normal to try to commit suicide and blame your kids. Her

> therapist

> > repeadily tells her she is " normal "

> >

> > She says cruel, hurtful things, has my whole life. She's done

some

> > mind games with my kids, plays on their little minds. She's the

> type

> > that loves to hurt people and make them cry. I was the target for

> > years, now she is going for the kids since I've built a wall and

> she

> > hasn't made me cry in years (yay me, I'm getting somewhere)

> >

> > Anyway....my son's birthday is coming and I KNOW she will blow

> > through that boundary which I have told them to stay away from

us.

> > I'll tell you exactly what will happen here: She'll show up at

the

> > door with a big gift in hand (how she gets the kids on her hook)

> and

> > my son, only 5 will be sobbing uncontrollably wanting to open the

> > door (if he doesn't do it before I get there and let the sick

thing

> > into my home) He'll be screaming/crying wanting the gift and I'll

> be

> > the horrible mother trying to keep that thing (with her smirk on

> > because my kid is crying and lashing out on me and she knows she

> > caused it and has control) out of my home. My child's birthday

> will

> > be ruined. She'll likely leave the gift on the steps if I don't

> open

> > the door or allow him to. I refuse to accept it, refuse. He'll

see

> it

> > and start bawling again, afterall, he is a kid. No more blood

> gifts.

> > None.

> >

> > Same scenario for Christmas. We'lll be opening gifts with the

> > children, trying to have a peaceful Christmas and that sick thing

> > will be at my doorstep again. Another ruined holiday. She

wouldn't

> > have it any other way.

> >

> > She called my aunt the other day with that sick laugh of hers

> > saying " do you think she'll let me give the kids gifts? " Ha ha.

> > Translation: I don't give a chit what SHE wants, I do what I

want,

> I

> > have no respect for others-I am showing up with gifts to try to

> lure

> > the kids into my sick little world.

> >

> > So....I need to send them a letter to tell them to STAY AWAY from

> me

> > and my family. I am not good with words and do NOT want it to

> start

> > any sort of conversation/dialoge/argument whatsoever. I want it

to

> be

> > to the point, saying don 't you have the audacity to show up

here,

> we

> > don't want to see you and we won't accept your gifts in person or

> by

> > mail. We are done.

> >

> > I'd really like a peaceful December and I would appreciate any

> advice

> > with wording anyone might have (I've seen a lot of you say/word

> > things so perfectly but for me the anger is taking over) for me

to

> > send a concrete letter to them. Not mean/nasty, just to the point

> so

> > they leave me alone and we can celebrate with our children in

> peace.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your help.

> >

>

December 2, 2008

Ok, then. My first two words: RESTRAINING ORDER. The police report

from the incident you described ought to help.

In your situation, the letter is probably a good idea then.

Here's how it might go:

" Dear Mom (and Dad?),

In the past, I have communicated about how often I want to see you.

You have come to events uninvited and then stayed even after I told

you you were not welcome. That is not acceptable to me. I want to

be very clear that I expect you to stay away from me and my children

unless I have specifically called to invite you. If you show up at

my house unannounced, I will not answer the door. I will call the

police. If we are having a party somewhere else, and I have not

specifically called to invite you and give you details myself, do not

come. If you show up I will call the police. "

(Question:Do you not want her to send any presents to your kids, or

do you just not want her to use it as a manipulation?)

Situation A: " I am not comfortable accepting gifts from you or

allowing you to give presents to my children right now. Anything you

send will be returned or sent to charity. If I see that you are able

to respect that boundary, I may reconsider in the future. "

Situation B:(This is what I told my mom--she used to buy them

mountains of expensive presents, hoping that would make them like

her) " If you want to give the children a present for their birthday,

please only give one gift priced under $30. Do not bring presents

for other children if it is not their birthday. " And, in your

situation, it would help to specify that she is to mail it. " Please

mail any gift you want to send the children for now. We will not

accept anything you bring in person. "

How's that for starters?

kt

> >

> > Has your mother shown up with gifts like that before?

> >

> > Or are you doing some preventative fantasizing?

> >

> > If she has a history of behaving like that, then it's a great

idea

> to

> > put a clear boundary AND CONSEQUENCES in writing, and send it

> certified

> > mail.

> >

> > If, on the other hand, you're just stressed about what *might*

> > happen...well, that might be a little different. I mean, it's

good

> to

> > have a plan in place, but what if she doesn't do what you see in

> your

> > mind's eye? What if she leaves you alone and your son's birthday

> and

> > Christmas are perfectly peaceful?

> >

> > I was very nervous about LC with my parents when I first did it.

I

> > imagined they'd just show up at my house, or try to get into the

> kids'

> > schools or something. " What if they ____? " I said to my

> therapist.

> > And she looked me square in the eye and said, " You don't need to

> worry

> > about that now. If that ever happened, you know what to do. "

And

> she

> > was right. They've never dropped by unannounced. They don't

stalk

> > us. They've never gone to the kids' schools. They left us

alone.

> But

> > I do know what to do if it ever happens in the future. I know how

> to

> > set and enforce my boundaries. I know the number to the local

> police

> > department. I know how to talk with the school principals. We'd

> be

> > just fine.

> >

> > What I'm saying is, I wasted a lot of energy trying to survive a

> > disaster that has never happened. I understand that it comes

> naturally

> > to us KOs--I've always done disaster-drills in my head, for

> everything

> > from home invasions to kidnapping. It's one thing to be

prepared,

> but

> > another thing to get weighed down by it all. So take some time,

> make

> > your disaster plan, and then go on with your life. Real

disasters

> are

> > actually quite rare.

> >

> > kt

> >

>

December 2, 2008

Thank you for your thoughts and your wording.

I do not want to accept any presents for anyone in my home, including

the children. It is just her way of manipulating people, most

especially my kids. They are too young to understand her games. She

always uses gifts and candy to lure them into liking her. And lots

and lots of junk food. I get that it is a grandma thing to spoil

grandkids but this goes beyond the relm of normal. For instance,

putting soda in a bottle for a 1 year old. Gross.

I cannot set boundaries to gifts, I've been trying for years. She has

no respect for that, either. She spends a lot and it is nice that

she is generous, but much of the time it is a bunch of toys/junk. My

house is overflowing with toys and she used to come here and laugh at

me and say " oh your kids are spoiled, they have so much stuff "

Smirk. I would stand there flabbergasted and say " but mom, but mom,

you bought all this stuff. " Now I throw about 50% of the toys out

every 6 months. The kids don't even miss them. So she'll show up

with tons of crap. Once she bought my son a truck he wanted then

needed another $20 gift. She asked me (always a trap) and I said

ther was a book he really wanted. She made a scene saying " no WAY

would I buy a child a book--he needs a TOY " Asking me is only a trap

to disrespect and me telling her only fuels her fire.

I do not want to accept anything for my children, not even by mail. I

just want them to leave me and my family alone.

Thanks again for your thoughts on how to word a letter. I always

enjoy reading your posts, they are so insightful and your words are

always great. You have a way of saying what many of us feel but

can't express.

> > >

> > > Has your mother shown up with gifts like that before?

> > >

> > > Or are you doing some preventative fantasizing?

> > >

> > > If she has a history of behaving like that, then it's a great

> idea

> > to

> > > put a clear boundary AND CONSEQUENCES in writing, and send it

> > certified

> > > mail.

> > >

> > > If, on the other hand, you're just stressed about what *might*

> > > happen...well, that might be a little different. I mean, it's

> good

> > to

> > > have a plan in place, but what if she doesn't do what you see

in

> > your

> > > mind's eye? What if she leaves you alone and your son's

birthday

> > and

> > > Christmas are perfectly peaceful?

> > >

> > > I was very nervous about LC with my parents when I first did

it.

> I

> > > imagined they'd just show up at my house, or try to get into

the

> > kids'

> > > schools or something. " What if they ____? " I said to my

> > therapist.

> > > And she looked me square in the eye and said, " You don't need

to

> > worry

> > > about that now. If that ever happened, you know what to do. "

> And

> > she

> > > was right. They've never dropped by unannounced. They don't

> stalk

> > > us. They've never gone to the kids' schools. They left us

> alone.

> > But

> > > I do know what to do if it ever happens in the future. I know

how

> > to

> > > set and enforce my boundaries. I know the number to the local

> > police

> > > department. I know how to talk with the school principals.

We'd

> > be

> > > just fine.

> > >

> > > What I'm saying is, I wasted a lot of energy trying to survive

a

> > > disaster that has never happened. I understand that it comes

> > naturally

> > > to us KOs--I've always done disaster-drills in my head, for

> > everything

> > > from home invasions to kidnapping. It's one thing to be

> prepared,

> > but

> > > another thing to get weighed down by it all. So take some

time,

> > make

> > > your disaster plan, and then go on with your life. Real

> disasters

> > are

> > > actually quite rare.

> > >

> > > kt

> > >

> >

>

December 2, 2008

Realmom2 so sorry about the situation, I feel for you. I think you

have already, CLEARLY worded things just fine to your nada. The

problem is that no matter what your words she will not listen which

i'm sure you already know. So what to do?

The short term solution is that moving the party elsewhere would be

pragmatic; although I realize this is utterly unfair and a complete

hassle for you. Perhaps necessary. Another short term party idea,

instead of spending cash you don't have for a 'bodyguard'. What

about asking a friends husband or someone appropriate to " mind the

door " Before your nada even gets close to the door he'll

be 'intercepting her' getting her away, and your son need not even

know if you are discreet and keep curtains closed etc. If she argues

or becomes physical the police MUST keep her away from you. There

are laws that police enforce to protect you. It's imperative that

you speak with the police before the party and placing a restraining

order, tell them the situation in detail, pull that old slapping

police report. Try and get the specific offer's card and tell him

you will probably need to call him when she tries this. When the day

comes if need be you call him directly and that way there will be NO

question about what's going on.

I think the certified letter is okay, however a restraining order

delivered by a police officer will be way more effective. Think of

it as a nada trap, orchestrated by your fed up, cunning KO mind!

Hopefully she takes the bait and you'll be done with her forever.

You MUST be prepared with the police though in order for it to work

properly. Once you've done your part it's up to the police to serve

and protect, no longer your problem! You MUST stick to the NC

strictly though. You cannot encourage her under ANY circumstance

whatsoever. She'll just use it against you.

Keep up with the harsh boundaries with the help of the police and

the long term benefits will be a complete NC. For now though you are

going to have to jump through those BPD hoops to get your way. You

and your son deserve better.

>

> I'll give a brief history. I've been NC for 2 (peaceful) months.

> Nada goes into rages, tells lies to the family about me. I've

gone

> NC on and off for the past few years. About 3 years ago she

called

> me and told me she was comitting suicide because I wouldn't do

what

> she told me to do (which was impossible, had to do with my brother

> and legal issues not involving me at all) then she took her pills

so

> I could hear her try to kill herself. I stopped talking to her,

> disrag father called for months saying I could help her if I would

> talk to her. I said she needed a therapist and wouldn't talk to

her

> until she saw one. She found one that told her it is perfectly

> normal to try to commit suicide and blame your kids. Her

therapist

> repeadily tells her she is " normal "

>

> She says cruel, hurtful things, has my whole life. She's done

some

> mind games with my kids, plays on their little minds. She's the

type

> that loves to hurt people and make them cry. I was the target for

> years, now she is going for the kids since I've built a wall and

she

> hasn't made me cry in years (yay me, I'm getting somewhere)

>

> Anyway....my son's birthday is coming and I KNOW she will blow

> through that boundary which I have told them to stay away from

us.

> I'll tell you exactly what will happen here: She'll show up at

the

> door with a big gift in hand (how she gets the kids on her hook)

and

> my son, only 5 will be sobbing uncontrollably wanting to open the

> door (if he doesn't do it before I get there and let the sick

thing

> into my home) He'll be screaming/crying wanting the gift and I'll

be

> the horrible mother trying to keep that thing (with her smirk on

> because my kid is crying and lashing out on me and she knows she

> caused it and has control) out of my home. My child's birthday

will

> be ruined. She'll likely leave the gift on the steps if I don't

open

> the door or allow him to. I refuse to accept it, refuse. He'll see

it

> and start bawling again, afterall, he is a kid. No more blood

gifts.

> None.

>

> Same scenario for Christmas. We'lll be opening gifts with the

> children, trying to have a peaceful Christmas and that sick thing

> will be at my doorstep again. Another ruined holiday. She

wouldn't

> have it any other way.

>

> She called my aunt the other day with that sick laugh of hers

> saying " do you think she'll let me give the kids gifts? " Ha ha.

> Translation: I don't give a chit what SHE wants, I do what I want,

I

> have no respect for others-I am showing up with gifts to try to

lure

> the kids into my sick little world.

>

> So....I need to send them a letter to tell them to STAY AWAY from

me

> and my family. I am not good with words and do NOT want it to

start

> any sort of conversation/dialoge/argument whatsoever. I want it to

be

> to the point, saying don 't you have the audacity to show up here,

we

> don't want to see you and we won't accept your gifts in person or

by

> mail. We are done.

>

> I'd really like a peaceful December and I would appreciate any

advice

> with wording anyone might have (I've seen a lot of you say/word

> things so perfectly but for me the anger is taking over) for me to

> send a concrete letter to them. Not mean/nasty, just to the point

so

> they leave me alone and we can celebrate with our children in

peace.

>

> Thanks in advance for your help.

>

December 2, 2008

Since you are not yet able to overcome your fear of your mother and

set boundaries with her, is this something you can *totally* turn over

to your husband, if he is willing? Just step out of the picture

entirely and let your husband be the " off duty police officer " who is

the only one who relays information to or intercepts calls from your

nada? Just a thought.

I love the idea of telling her that the party(ies) will be on a

certain day at a certain place, and then having said party(ies) on a

different day at a different place than your home, with this

additional twist:

When your nada shows up at your home on the day she *thinks* is

correct, she will be the only " guest " there. (One thing: make sure

that your child is at a friend's house at this time, NOT home with you.)

You will have your lawyer there with you; let him do all the talking.

Record the meeting on tape. Let the lawyer explain very clearly to

your mother that the next time she violates any of the boundaries you

have set, such as turning up at your home uninvited, she will be

violating a restraining order and she will be arrested. Have him hand

her a list of boundaries, have her sign it. Make a copy.

Also, I'd ask my therapist if there is anything that can help you

overcome your truly debilitating fear of your mother; maybe you can

explore what it is exactly that terrifies you so much. See if you can

replace the fear with anger.

Her behavior is outrageous, in my opinion it ought to make you angry,

not scared! So I believe if you can access some outrage on your own

behalf, you'd be more than halfway towards making the boundaries you

set actually stick.

Can you imagine yourself screaming at the top of your lungs an inch

from your mother's face to " LEAVE *NOW*!! " and that she actually

leaves? Wouldn't that be cool?

Otherwise, being hauled off to jail for violating a restraining order

ought to make your mother think twice before doing it again, I would

think!

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Has your mother shown up with gifts like that before?

> > > >

> > > > Or are you doing some preventative fantasizing?

> > > >

> > > > If she has a history of behaving like that, then it's a great

> > idea

> > > to

> > > > put a clear boundary AND CONSEQUENCES in writing, and send it

> > > certified

> > > > mail.

> > > >

> > > > If, on the other hand, you're just stressed about what *might*

> > > > happen...well, that might be a little different. I mean, it's

> > good

> > > to

> > > > have a plan in place, but what if she doesn't do what you see

> in

> > > your

> > > > mind's eye? What if she leaves you alone and your son's

> birthday

> > > and

> > > > Christmas are perfectly peaceful?

> > > >

> > > > I was very nervous about LC with my parents when I first did

> it.

> > I

> > > > imagined they'd just show up at my house, or try to get into

> the

> > > kids'

> > > > schools or something. " What if they ____? " I said to my

> > > therapist.

> > > > And she looked me square in the eye and said, " You don't need

> to

> > > worry

> > > > about that now. If that ever happened, you know what to do. "

> > And

> > > she

> > > > was right. They've never dropped by unannounced. They don't

> > stalk

> > > > us. They've never gone to the kids' schools. They left us

> > alone.

> > > But

> > > > I do know what to do if it ever happens in the future. I know

> how

> > > to

> > > > set and enforce my boundaries. I know the number to the local

> > > police

> > > > department. I know how to talk with the school principals.

> We'd

> > > be

> > > > just fine.

> > > >

> > > > What I'm saying is, I wasted a lot of energy trying to survive

> a

> > > > disaster that has never happened. I understand that it comes

> > > naturally

> > > > to us KOs--I've always done disaster-drills in my head, for

> > > everything

> > > > from home invasions to kidnapping. It's one thing to be

> > prepared,

> > > but

> > > > another thing to get weighed down by it all. So take some

> time,

> > > make

> > > > your disaster plan, and then go on with your life. Real

> > disasters

> > > are

> > > > actually quite rare.

> > > >

> > > > kt

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 2, 2008

I have to agree with KT, if your nada is consistently blowing through boundaries

a restraining order and a letter written by a lawyer may be in order to show

that you mean business. It sounds as if your nada is extremely narcissistic and

thus, per the disorder, is trying to put you in your place. The one thing these

people fear is the loss of standing among their peers and family members they

still respect.

You get their attention by first slapping an RO on them with clear consequences

if they violate the order. The minute she laid violent hands on you was the deal

breaker, not standard relations. Then you go in for the real pain, make it clear

that if the restraining order is violated that you will make it known among the

family, friends and others exactly what was done and why. A police report will

be generated and the information will be circulated, and that you will cut her

out of your life until she rethinks her attitude towards you with respect to

your needs and common courtesy.

What you have written indicates that you have an extreme case and you may need

to either cut off all contact for a set period of time or for good.

The point is you have to get hard on her. She has already shown a pattern of

escalating behavior with respect to your person and you cannot trust her in the

least to change her ways. All you can do is contain her damage.

In my opinion you have more than enough grounds with the physical assault to

take out a restraining order on this woman.

Start a file. Get the previous police report. They will get you a copy if you

request it. Use that report as the basis for your RO and then make it stick.

You have the facts, all she has are twisted lies. Document and if she ever does

make it back into your house, purchase a small voice activated recorder and have

it positioned somewhere inconspicious and record all conversations with her. Put

those tapes in the file. In fact I would purchase two: one to have at home and

one to have in your purse.

It sucks that you may need to go to these lengths, but based on what I have read

you may be left with no choice.

Further, if you do not have a personal journal, GET ONE. Write down everything

that has to do with this woman. I cannot advocate this step loudly enough. You

are trapped in a cycle of repetitive behaviors and you need to record her

behaviors and your reaction to them. This is not being obsessive or hanging on

to the pain. This is your freedom from this drama that your nada continues to

stir up. The one thing I did to distance myself from the pain my family and my

nada cause on a daily basis was to record the events in a journal. It helped me

step back from the BS and look at the situation critically. It helps you to put

distance between you and the drama. It helped me change MY response to their BS.

Even when she isn't in your house she is still pulling your chain. Break that

habit. The one thing a narcissist banks on is that they know you are thinking

about them way more than they think about you. Believe me they can tell when you

start disentangling

yourself from their drama. You will notice an escalation in behavior at first

and then when they see that doesn't work they will begin to re-evaluate their

view of you. And that is what you want.

As for the suggested letter, it is a very good start. I would use it as such and

in addition write out 5 things you want to address. As I see it the 5 I would

write down from your previous posts are:

1) Not respecting set boundaries

2) Contempt for your needs

3) Entitlement to physical violence

4) Compulsive lying

5) Clear cut consequences for escalating behavior

I may be wrong, but these jumped out at me. If these are the five points that

are highest on your list, make sure they are clearly outlined in the letter.

Make it as short as possible, do not go into any detail or list any examples,

time for that has passed. You want a letter that puts down a huge boundary line.

If she chooses to cross it, then this letter becomes evidence in any future law

proceedings. The point is that the cascade of consequences will be triggered by

her behavior. Make it clear that she will have no one to blame but herself.

Be forewarned, she will escalate her behavior and you must address that at the

end of the letter. You must also assume that this document will be passed around

to the family so be sure that it is written clinically with no emotional

overtones.

I am sorry you are being abused by your nada. Emotional abuse is the hardest to

prove which is why you must journal your experiences, record all conversations

you have with her and put all communications in writing. If you were being

stalked by a stranger, I would advocate the same process. It may help to think

of this situation in those terms.

I hope this helps.

Be strong

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 2:36:07 PM

Subject: Re: Can someone help me with wording