Guest guest Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Hi K, Wow. Your " nada " is the most extreme case of Waif bpd I've ever read about here. You poor woman, you are literally being stalked and harassed by your own mother, who definitely sounds severely mentally ill. YOur nada has inflicted several of the abusive behaviors on you that I've experienced from my own nada, but to a lesser degree. I can particularly relate to the denigrating, critical, insulting and cruel comments hurled at you in private, while showering praise on you in public, and using gifts as manipulative tools, such as giving a gift and then taking it back or demanding it be given back. But I have never heard of the totally relentless stalking and harassing behavior you are experiencing, that is so nightmarish. I am willing to bet that members at this Group will have some advice for you, as there are a wide range of bpd behaviors and experiences with bpd parents posted about here. Me personally, I'd consult with a psychiatrist about possible options for you, and/or a lawyer. It is totally inappropriate behavior to harass and stalk and intimidate your adult child, you do have the right to live your own life. Perhaps if you can have your nada evaluated by a psychiatrist and she is found to be mentally incompetent, you can again be given guardianship and find her a nice assisted-care facility where she can be cared for, without you needing to be her care-giver personally. Best of luck with this, you have a lot of fortitude and courage. -Annie > > Hello, > > I am really grateful to have found this list. I can relate so well to many of the posts I've read. Just learning the term " nada " has been a tremendous comfort! I have ordered the book " Understanding your borderline mother " and am looking forward to reading it. > > I am a 39 year old woman. My nada is 63 years old. She has bi-polar disorder, and borderline personality disorder. I have known for a long time that she has bi-polar disorder, but only recently realized she has co-morbid borderline. I think some of the more extreme bi-polar symptoms she had masked some of the borderline stuff for a long time. She has one brother from whom we are both estranged. He could not stand her manipulative behavior so he cut her out of his life. I think I got included in it merely for being her daughter. I have been estranged from my father since childhood. I have no living grandparents, no siblings and no extended family. I am blessed with a loving and level-headed husband. > > My nada focuses the glare of her obsessive attention on me alone. She hates anyone close to me presumably because she sees them as a threat. She behaves like a jealous spouse more than a mother. She tells me I am a bad daughter for not taking care of her, but ignores any practical advice I have ever given her. She tells me she is older and wiser, and that I should not try to tell her how to live. She says extremely cruel things to me in private (about my personality, my appearance, my choices), and showers praise on me in front of other people. There have been times she has made ugly faces at me in public when no one else was looking. She seems to hate me, but won't let me go. > > I feel like I am in a fight for my life, and sanity. My nada's attempts to merge with me are becoming increasingly more frantic. For many years I have been LC. For me LC has meant that I see her on mother's day, my birthday, her birthday, Thanksgiving and Christmas. She does not know where I work, she does not have my home number. She has my cell number, but I have no voicemail and have set her ringtone to " silent " so her calls don't interrupt whatever I am doing. However, she calls so often every day that I usually keep it turned off or else she runs the battery down. > > I have tried to go NC, but she always steps up the pressure until I crack. The more I pull away the harder she pursues me. It isn't out of love for her that I finally agree to have contact, it is out of self-preservation. For example, in my early twenties I was accepted to a small college 2 hrs away from where she lives. I did not give her my number but I did tell her where I was. She had a complete meltdown and began calling the administration frantically saying she was dying and needed help to contact her daughter. At the risk of being judged I told people, " If she is dying, she needs a doctor. I am not a doctor " . Soon I found notes addressed to me posted on campus buildings saying " Call your mother, she is sick and needs help. " I ignored her drama the best I could until she showed up at school. She began soliciting help from random students walking through campus saying she was having a heart attack and needed to find her > daughter. I came home to find her in the lounge of my dorm with several girls " helping her " with glasses of water, cold compresses and aspirin. I had a meltdown myself at that point. I ended up feeling forced to leave school out of concern that I couldn't keep up while under such stress, and that she wouldn't stop until I came home. I eventually had to hospitalize her and became her guardian for a time. I put my life on hold for hers. This has become a common pattern in my life. > > I can name many other similar episodes. I literally moved from the east coast to the west coast to get away from her destructive presence in my life. I didn't tell her where I lived. Somehow she found my address and showed up on my doorstep with her purse, and her cat in a carrier and announced her intention to live with me. I called the police and they told me it was my job to take care of her because she is my mother. I told them she is mentally ill and needed treatment from a doctor. They said she wasn't a threat to herself or anyone else, so they left her in my care. But she was a threat to me! She was a threat to my stability! That is how I learned I cannot tell her where I work, or mention any full names of people I know or work with for fear she will go into detective mode. I would literally need to go into witness relocation to escape her clutches and even then she could probably give me a run for my money. > > She says she doesn't remember any of this. She denies it ever happened. She re-writes history all the time. She takes no responsibility whatsoever for interfering in my life over and over again. She has said if I hadn't made decisions without her, things would have worked out better for me. She says " families talk things over with each other before they make decisions. You didn't discuss these choices with your family " . > > I hate her. I can honestly say that. I feel sorry for her, and I stay in communication for two reasons. 1) sense of obligation which comes from a belief somewhere down deep that she cannot help this because it is a mental illness. 2) I cannot escape her clutches. She always pursues me harder when I withdraw. The next thing I know she is showing up at my work, or arriving at my house uninvited. > > I have managed to have a stable career for several years. I am happily married. I do not want her to destroy the two good things I have managed to sustain in my life. She recently created a big drama over financial problems she is having. She rejected my help when I was her guardian, but now expects me to bail her out financially when she gets herself into trouble. This is the kind of mixed message she has always sent. > > Just before Thanksgiving she asked me to sell a family heirloom she gave me when I got married. She wants the money. She's already sold anything of value she inherited from her parents. She seems to have no capacity for sentimentality. Things and people are valuable in so far as they can get her what she wants/needs. She wields gifts like weapons. She's asked me to sell this ring and give her the money every year since she " gave " it to me. She said " you don't need it, but I do " . She told me she " earned it " for visiting her grandmother (to whom it belonged) in the nursing home. I told her I was angry, hurt and disgusted with her. I told her I would not see her for her birthday, Thanksgiving or Christmas. This, of course, just gives her ammunition. She will tell the people in her condo how awful I am for ignoring her on a family holiday. I have stuck to it so far. I don't care what they think of > me. But I have had a monster headache for several days now. I suppose it is a tension headache. > > I decided to keep the ring. I sent her money and told her I sold it. I didn't do this to help her. I did this so she will have to stop asking me for the damn thing every year. She sent me a nasty note saying I was punishing her, and that she will pay me back. I feel so guilty for leaving her alone on Thanksgiving. And yet, I hate myself for feeling guilty. I have felt like the mother in this situation ever since I can remember. Why do I feel so obligated to put her needs in front of my own? > > This type of thing has been going on for years. I am really so very tired. I don't know how to stop this cycle but I know I must for my own well-being…. > > I guess my questions for this group are: > > > How much control does a person with BPD have over their behavior? > Have any of you successfully gone NC from a nada like mine? How did you do it? > > Thank you for sharing your experiences and your hard-won wisdom with me. > > K > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I can related almost 100% to what you've written here. You are NOT ALONE with this insanity... and your ending Q's are what keeps me in therapy (long story there). I would like to think they have NO control over their impulsive BPD behaviors... but I don't think that's really the case. Nada functions when she wants to... when it benefits HER to be 'normal' then, sign her up...she's your gal. But if she's feeling 'left out', 'lonely', " ignored " ... look out cause someone (usually me) is gonna get bitten. My word of advice is simply this: People are going to think what they will. Period. Her neighbor's, strangers, the police... etc. However, as I found out with MY Nada, HER FAMILY KNOWS... it's been a tremendous relief to find out that she was like this before I was born... 'hey, it's not ME'.... So... people will think what they will, but you know... and so do others. Don't do anything that goes against YOU here... hold steady. She won't stop the craziness but that's what locks, caller ID and 'return to sender' are for. She may never get it but YOU do... live there. Lynnette > > Hello, > > I am really grateful to have found this list. I can relate so well to many of the posts I've read. Just learning the term " nada " has been a tremendous comfort! I have ordered the book " Understanding your borderline mother " and am looking forward to reading it. > > I am a 39 year old woman. My nada is 63 years old. She has bi- polar disorder, and borderline personality disorder. I have known for a long time that she has bi-polar disorder, but only recently realized she has co-morbid borderline. I think some of the more extreme bi-polar symptoms she had masked some of the borderline stuff for a long time. She has one brother from whom we are both estranged. He could not stand her manipulative behavior so he cut her out of his life. I think I got included in it merely for being her daughter. I have been estranged from my father since childhood. I have no living grandparents, no siblings and no extended family. I am blessed with a loving and level-headed husband. > > My nada focuses the glare of her obsessive attention on me alone. She hates anyone close to me presumably because she sees them as a threat. She behaves like a jealous spouse more than a mother. She tells me I am a bad daughter for not taking care of her, but ignores any practical advice I have ever given her. She tells me she is older and wiser, and that I should not try to tell her how to live. She says extremely cruel things to me in private (about my personality, my appearance, my choices), and showers praise on me in front of other people. There have been times she has made ugly faces at me in public when no one else was looking. She seems to hate me, but won't let me go. > > I feel like I am in a fight for my life, and sanity. My nada's attempts to merge with me are becoming increasingly more frantic. For many years I have been LC. For me LC has meant that I see her on mother's day, my birthday, her birthday, Thanksgiving and Christmas. She does not know where I work, she does not have my home number. She has my cell number, but I have no voicemail and have set her ringtone to " silent " so her calls don't interrupt whatever I am doing. However, she calls so often every day that I usually keep it turned off or else she runs the battery down. > > I have tried to go NC, but she always steps up the pressure until I crack. The more I pull away the harder she pursues me. It isn't out of love for her that I finally agree to have contact, it is out of self-preservation. For example, in my early twenties I was accepted to a small college 2 hrs away from where she lives. I did not give her my number but I did tell her where I was. She had a complete meltdown and began calling the administration frantically saying she was dying and needed help to contact her daughter. At the risk of being judged I told people, " If she is dying, she needs a doctor. I am not a doctor " . Soon I found notes addressed to me posted on campus buildings saying " Call your mother, she is sick and needs help. " I ignored her drama the best I could until she showed up at school. She began soliciting help from random students walking through campus saying she was having a heart attack and needed to find her > daughter. I came home to find her in the lounge of my dorm with several girls " helping her " with glasses of water, cold compresses and aspirin. I had a meltdown myself at that point. I ended up feeling forced to leave school out of concern that I couldn't keep up while under such stress, and that she wouldn't stop until I came home. I eventually had to hospitalize her and became her guardian for a time. I put my life on hold for hers. This has become a common pattern in my life. > > I can name many other similar episodes. I literally moved from the east coast to the west coast to get away from her destructive presence in my life. I didn't tell her where I lived. Somehow she found my address and showed up on my doorstep with her purse, and her cat in a carrier and announced her intention to live with me. I called the police and they told me it was my job to take care of her because she is my mother. I told them she is mentally ill and needed treatment from a doctor. They said she wasn't a threat to herself or anyone else, so they left her in my care. But she was a threat to me! She was a threat to my stability! That is how I learned I cannot tell her where I work, or mention any full names of people I know or work with for fear she will go into detective mode. I would literally need to go into witness relocation to escape her clutches and even then she could probably give me a run for my money. > > She says she doesn't remember any of this. She denies it ever happened. She re-writes history all the time. She takes no responsibility whatsoever for interfering in my life over and over again. She has said if I hadn't made decisions without her, things would have worked out better for me. She says " families talk things over with each other before they make decisions. You didn't discuss these choices with your family " . > > I hate her. I can honestly say that. I feel sorry for her, and I stay in communication for two reasons. 1) sense of obligation which comes from a belief somewhere down deep that she cannot help this because it is a mental illness. 2) I cannot escape her clutches. She always pursues me harder when I withdraw. The next thing I know she is showing up at my work, or arriving at my house uninvited. > > I have managed to have a stable career for several years. I am happily married. I do not want her to destroy the two good things I have managed to sustain in my life. She recently created a big drama over financial problems she is having. She rejected my help when I was her guardian, but now expects me to bail her out financially when she gets herself into trouble. This is the kind of mixed message she has always sent. > > Just before Thanksgiving she asked me to sell a family heirloom she gave me when I got married. She wants the money. She's already sold anything of value she inherited from her parents. She seems to have no capacity for sentimentality. Things and people are valuable in so far as they can get her what she wants/needs. She wields gifts like weapons. She's asked me to sell this ring and give her the money every year since she " gave " it to me. She said " you don't need it, but I do " . She told me she " earned it " for visiting her grandmother (to whom it belonged) in the nursing home. I told her I was angry, hurt and disgusted with her. I told her I would not see her for her birthday, Thanksgiving or Christmas. This, of course, just gives her ammunition. She will tell the people in her condo how awful I am for ignoring her on a family holiday. I have stuck to it so far. I don't care what they think of > me. But I have had a monster headache for several days now. I suppose it is a tension headache. > > I decided to keep the ring. I sent her money and told her I sold it. I didn't do this to help her. I did this so she will have to stop asking me for the damn thing every year. She sent me a nasty note saying I was punishing her, and that she will pay me back. I feel so guilty for leaving her alone on Thanksgiving. And yet, I hate myself for feeling guilty. I have felt like the mother in this situation ever since I can remember. Why do I feel so obligated to put her needs in front of my own? > > This type of thing has been going on for years. I am really so very tired. I don't know how to stop this cycle but I know I must for my own well-being…. > > I guess my questions for this group are: > > > How much control does a person with BPD have over their behavior? > Have any of you successfully gone NC from a nada like mine? How did you do it? > > Thank you for sharing your experiences and your hard-won wisdom with me. > > K > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 That was me: I call it " Compassionate Detachment. " Its a state I'm trying to reach but I'm not there yet. Its being able to treat my bpd/narcissist mom humanely, kindly, and politely as I would treat any other person, but without being emotionally responsive to the title " Mother " and without allowing her to hurt me any longer. -Annie .... One poster deemed it Compassionate Disinterest, which is a powerful way of thinking when it comes to your BPD parent. You feel for the prediciment they have placed themselves in, but you will do nothing to help them avoid the consequences of their actions.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 > > My nada is 63 years old. She has bi-polar disorder, and >borderline personality disorder. I have known for a long time that >she has bi-polar disorder, but only recently realized she has co- >morbid borderline. Those disorders are a lot alike, I'm not surprised it took so long to figure out she has BOTH. I can only imagine! > She seems to hate me, but won't let me go. > One of the older books on BPD is titled " I Hate You, Don't Leave Me! " It's sad that people so terrified of being abandoned work so hard to make everyone else leave them. Like a self-fulfilling prophecy. > I feel like I am in a fight for my life, and sanity. You are. Keep remembering that it is okay to preserve yourself. You have no power to save her. >> She has my cell number, but I have no voicemail and have set her ringtone to " silent " so her calls don't interrupt whatever I am doing. However, she calls so often every day that I usually keep it turned off or else she runs the battery down. > WOW. How often do you reward her by calling back? If it were my mom I'd say, " I look at calls I've missed once a day. If I see a call from you, I'll call you back as soon as I find a convenient moment. If you call more than twice in one day, I will not call you back for a week. " Not that this would necessarily work with your nada, but hey, it's worth a shot. > I have tried to go NC, but she always steps up the pressure until I crack. The more I pull away the harder she pursues me. It isn't out of love for her that I finally agree to have contact, it is out of self-preservation. Your college experience sounds horrible. I'd let her know that if she shows up on your doorstep you will consider it trespassing and call the police. Let all your employers know ahead of time that they should not let her onto the premesis because she is a pathological liar and is not supposed to contact you. Give photos to their security people if they have any. I don't know if there is anything that would specifically allow for a restraining order, but it sounds like you could use one. > I would literally need to go into witness relocation to escape her clutches and even then she could probably give me a run for my money. > ROTFL. Maybe you could put in a good word for her with the mob. > She says she doesn't remember any of this. She denies it ever happened. She re-writes history all the time. She takes no responsibility whatsoever for interfering in my life over and over again. She has said if I hadn't made decisions without her, things would have worked out better for me. She says " families talk things over with each other before they make decisions. You didn't discuss these choices with your family " . > Right, my mom has selective memory, too. And once when I was 21 she said, " Children should never be allowed to make their own decisions! " Whatever. I could legally vote or die fighting for my country, but heaven forbid I try to do anything on my own! > I hate her. I can honestly say that. I feel sorry for her, and I stay in communication for two reasons. 1) sense of obligation which comes from a belief somewhere down deep that she cannot help this because it is a mental illness. 2) I cannot escape her clutches. She always pursues me harder when I withdraw. The next thing I know she is showing up at my work, or arriving at my house uninvited. > #1:Hmmm...She could improve if she wanted to. She chooses not to. Therefore she chooses the consequences. It is perfectly reasonable for you to expect anyone who wants to spend time with you to respect you and your personal boundaries. If anyone chooses not to do that, they choose not to spend time with you. #2:already addressed above. > I have managed to have a stable career for several years. I am happily married. I do not want her to destroy the two good things I have managed to sustain in my life. She recently created a big drama over financial problems she is having. She rejected my help when I was her guardian, but now expects me to bail her out financially when she gets herself into trouble. This is the kind of mixed message she has always sent. > " If you are having trouble with your finances, you might consider consulting a professional. I am not able to help you. " > Just before Thanksgiving she asked me to sell a family heirloom she gave me when I got married. She wants the money. " You gave me that ring as a present. I get to decide what to do with it now. " > I decided to keep the ring. I sent her money and told her I sold it. I didn't do this to help her. I did this so she will have to stop asking me for the damn thing every year. You may not want to hear this, but by doing that, you sent the message that it is okay for her to harass you and ask you for money and neglect your needs, and that she can make you do whatever she wants. If you want to send a different message--for instance, that you are an adult who refuses to be manipulated--then you need to choose different behavior in the future. She is going to push your limits UNTIL she gets no reward for doing so. >>>>>She sent me a nasty note saying I was punishing her, and that she will pay me back. I feel so guilty for leaving her alone on Thanksgiving. And yet, I hate myself for feeling guilty. I have felt like the mother in this situation ever since I can remember. Why do I feel so obligated to put her needs in front of my own? > Because that's what you have been trained to do since you were born. > How much control does a person with BPD have over their behavior? > IMO they are perfectly capable of learning to control their responses to their very intense emotions. However, they usually choose not to change, because it is impossibly difficult for them to admit they need help. Admitting that is the same thing as being nobody in their mind. They can only feel good about themselves if they have NO flaws. You can influence the way she chooses to behave by telling her what is acceptable to you and CONSISTENTLY enforcing consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Thanks for sharing your excellent observations here Lilly Blue; your technique really seems to work very well for you: > I find that the person with BPD has a set behavior pattern and that >there are triggers (stress, bad weather, season, holidays, etc) >which result in the behavior. I find that once I know the pattern >that I can prepare for it and not be caught flat footed. I'll have to try that: studying my nada's patterns so I am prepared with strategies. > My nada did something this weekend that was classic BPD BS and the >way I reacted was to recognize what was going on and put it back in >her lap.... >... I was able to detach and it was almost as if I was standing >outside of myself watching what was going on.... >... she seemed to shut down and back up. She was quiet for a good >while, then she started in on my son. Wow... I've noticed that pattern cropping up here, in several member's posts: when the KObpd gives her nada boundaries / stands up to her nada, then the nada goes after the KO's child! But you anticipated what was going to happen and thwarted her! I am very impressed with you!! >What we should be doing is observing them as if we were watching a >wildlife park and were conducting field research. Not to please >them, but to develop our strategies to deal with their stupidity and >cruel remarks. Yes, that being able to step away emotionally from the situation is crucial, so that their cruelties and insults and jabs have no effect at all. I'll have to try the journaling (when and if I am back in contact with nada) and see if it helps me as well! Thanks, -Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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