Re: panick attacks over thought of seeing Nada after my brother's accident

[Guest guest]

I am so sory you were having panic attacks when you tried to visit

your brother.

You mentioned gifts in your home from nada and how they are

everywhere.

One thing that I have done is slowly give away what nada has given

me. Nada gave my brother the family china, crystal and silverware.

I got a set of dishes from a discount chain. I gave the set of

dishes to a family whose home had burned down. They were grateful

and I was rid of a reminder of her hoover techniques.

When she sends money I make a choice. I have given the money to my

church, a local charity or have passed it on to someone of my

choice. I am honest in saying theere have been times when I needed

the money, so I used it on what I needed.

I walked thru my home this week and looked carefully if there was

anyting around that she had given me. Oh yes, a wooden statue from

South American she brought back as a gift. We have a burning barrel

and it was deposited there for the next burn.

blessings, mg

[Guest guest]

First, I am so sorry about your brother.

Second, I know your post was very long and seemed very involved, but

I see one thing that you need to take in. Not just hear or read the

words, but TAKE IT IN:

YOU ARE NOT HERE TO SERVE OTHER PEOPLES' AGENDAS OR MAKE THEM FEEL

BETTER OR BURY YOUR FEELINGS IN FAVOR OF THEIRS.

Go visit your brother because you want to visit your brother. Stop

letting all this backroom intrigue intrude into your thoughts.

When others try to manage how you're going to conduct your visit --

smile and thank them (even if it's on the phone) and assure them

you're handling the situation as you see fit. THEN STOP EXPLAINING

YOURSELF. Mature adults don't overexplain and oversell themselves

so that others will approve.

You need to concentrate on that bond with your brother. If you

encounter your mother, be polite, but don't engage in her crap.

Grit your teeth and deal with the uncomfortable atmosphere with

politeness and assertiveness.

I honestly didn't finish reading your post because the main theme is

the same: Stop explaining yourself and honor your own intentions

and desires.

Tension in the air when your mother's in the room won't kill you.

Let it be. Square your shoulders in spite of it. Let it flow past

you. Assure your other brother you are doing the best you can and

thank him for his concern -- then end the call or change the subject.

You're not a chess piece for others to move at will to suit their

agendas.

Have your own agenda, remind yourself you're a grown up. Remind

yourself that some people in this world are going to like you, and

some aren't -- that's life. Remind yourself you don't owe press

releases explaining yourself to every drama junkie in the world, and

get on with it.

-Kyla

>

> Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been

doing

> great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and like

> others in here it's really making a huge difference in my life.

I'm

> starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail anziety is

> almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and

relationships

> with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

absence in

> my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and feeling

less

> guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that

looking back

> a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months ago

I had

> a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

able to

> really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really shook

me to

> the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see my

Nada

> again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone

because

> that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-mails

but I

> only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced myself,

like

> someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even

though we

> made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows my

> husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to

him.

> Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my

brother was

> in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

brother

> is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him so I

> wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

called my

> father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my brother

was

> in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places

and is

> now paralyzed from the waist down.

> At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

shape and

> may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

head was

> crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived

and his

> head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very

swollen.

> But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to

see him

> before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than any

of my

> siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time

of his

> life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she

lives in

> Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too so I

> don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from her.

I

> feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because of

> her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move back

to

> Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go back

for

> visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to see

them

> and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what BPD

> is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or that

I was

> there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

husband

> and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

see my

> brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on the

cell

> phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to call

> Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here and

where

> you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who was

> in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

she had

> nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the hospital

to

> see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she would go

> there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about him.

The

> brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he only

cares

> if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He says

that

> since I left she started treating him bad like she always treated

me and

> he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him alone.

Nice

> brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened and

> then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were only a

> couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call my

Mom.

> As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .….anywhere….at the

> hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> house….anywhere…..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like I

> wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my husband

said

> " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " …..the more

> I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO way

I

> am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> security guards all around you every where you go so she can't even

> get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

see her

> and deal with her…..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled over

and

> talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

California.

> Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be best

to

> not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few

miles

> down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that I

> didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing brother,

I

> HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity again.

> What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved brother

on

> his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction, towards

NADA,

> it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a

real

> heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is the

> matter with me…..my Brother needs me and I am letting her affect me

> like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and forth a

> few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My husband

> finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't

even

> try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the result

would

> be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat was

> removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted this

> way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

there?

> I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house in

> California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I not

going

> to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

things

> could happen to any of my family members, are they going to think I

> don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who had

the

> accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay with

us

> for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as he

goes,

> he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

out OK.

> But if he had died…..would I have ever forgiven myself for not

being

> with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother

must be

> for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being face

to

> face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of? I

knew

> she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and not

> saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could

picture it,

> staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a look. I

> guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

hate me

> BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense than

it was

> when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not

something

> mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you could

say

> she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she

did. But

> you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she actually

has

> something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my

whole life

> to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time

that I

> stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified

of the

> repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked

witch,

> just waiting for her wrath to come.

>

>

>

> The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have to

give

> up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free of

her.

> I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I could

have

> a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes wish

she

> would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to go No

> Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for her to

> die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

with my

> life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well, but

leave

> me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please no

one

> take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!!!!!!! I

just

> want her out of my life completely and forever, not really dead,

just

> dead to me.

>

>

>

> This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out

of fear

> that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left her

she

> sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did

before.

> They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I don't.

> Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to forget

> about her and every time I turn the corner there is something that

she

> gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out everything

that

> was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders…..do you

> want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows up on

> my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or that

is.

> Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for

fear

> she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her

feelings. My

> husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a visit

she

> should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those things

> around……..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me one at a

> time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working

but as

> the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if she

ever

> came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing and I

> stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I still

see

> them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want to

> remove but I don't.

>

>

>

> Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting so

strong

> and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with my

> brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

Texas two

> step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one step

back

> but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go back

all

> the way.

>

>

>

> Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I honestly didn't finish reading your post because the main theme is

> the same: Stop explaining yourself and honor your own intentions

> and desires.

>

Kyla! I am very disturbed by this post. I don't think your message to this

person was

communicated in the way that would give the assistance I'm sure you meant to

provide. I

feel I must come to the defense of this poor poster, who is suffering acutely

from two very

typical responses to nada fog: fear of confrontation of nada, and fear of being

victim of a

distortion campain in front of other family members. I don't like the way you

characterize

her post several times as 'long' and 'involved'--words that are negative, that

imply her

words are not worth reading, that there are too many of them, that they don't

deserve to

be taken seriously. And then you admit to not even reading to whole thing! As

a KO you

should know that every word a KO speaks is valid and important, no matter how

many

words there are, and every word deserves to be taken seriously. Every thought

and

emotion and yes, every WORD a KO has is a valuable message, a message of what is

unhealthy about what nada taught/inflicted, what needs to be corrected. Why do

we come

to this board, if not to be heard and read?

I also don't like the way that you gave a series of unconditional orders to this

person,

some shouting, in a very bossy and intimidating manner. This person just

described very

real panic attacks. How is shouting going to help with anxiety? Anxiety comes

largely

from being forced into do things by fear--and your method of communication

sounds

very much like force, and not like respectful advice.

This post from Lotus was helpful to me. I hope that the poster will continue to

use the

board, and to know that if someone replies in a threatening manner, even

unintentionally,

that someone on the board WILL call them on it--because this is a safe place.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lotus, just a few random thoughts....it's important to honor where

you are at now. Where you are at now is that the prospect of

dealing with your nada gives you panic attacks, so give yourself

permission not to. If you want those other family members in your

life, bring them to you to visit in California, connect through email

and phone...there are ways to relate to them that matter without

putting yourself at risk. Even though you might feel sad or lack

closure not to go to a funeral, funerals are for the living - the

dead have already left the building. As one of the living, it's okay

to take care of you.

Now I realize some might say I'm advising you to give in to your fear

and that's wrong, well you post here for multiple perspectives

right? Some people are wired differently and sometimes the costs

involved are different. One particular time of confronation with my

nada gave me a nervous breakdown I was unable to work - I have no one

to take care of me and had built my career for a decade, so for me

this was a big deal. When I consider the cost of confrontation, I

have to consider my well-being also. I believe getting to a point

where one can deal with " a nada " without panic attacks and nervous

breakdowns is important, and we should commit ourselves to do the

personal work needed to get there. But hey, if you aren't there

yet it is okay...gotta deal with where things stand right now.

>

> Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been

doing

> great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and like

> others in here it's really making a huge difference in my life. I'm

> starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail anziety is

> almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and

relationships

> with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

absence in

> my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and feeling

less

> guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that looking

back

> a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months ago I

had

> a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

able to

> really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really shook

me to

> the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see my

Nada

> again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone

because

> that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-mails

but I

> only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced myself,

like

> someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even though

we

> made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows my

> husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to him.

> Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my brother

was

> in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

brother

> is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him so I

> wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

called my

> father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my brother

was

> in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places and

is

> now paralyzed from the waist down.

> At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

shape and

> may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

head was

> crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived and

his

> head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very

swollen.

> But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to see

him

> before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than any

of my

> siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time of

his

> life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she lives

in

> Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too so I

> don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from her. I

> feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because of

> her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move back to

> Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go back for

> visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to see

them

> and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what BPD

> is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or that

I was

> there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

husband

> and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

see my

> brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on the

cell

> phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to call

> Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here and

where

> you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who was

> in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

she had

> nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the hospital to

> see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she would go

> there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about him. The

> brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he only

cares

> if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He says

that

> since I left she started treating him bad like she always treated

me and

> he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him alone.

Nice

> brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened and

> then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were only a

> couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call my

Mom.

> As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .….anywhere….at the

> hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> house….anywhere…..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like I

> wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my husband

said

> " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " …..the more

> I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO way I

> am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> security guards all around you every where you go so she can't even

> get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

see her

> and deal with her…..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled over and

> talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

California.

> Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be best

to

> not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few miles

> down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that I

> didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing brother, I

> HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity again.

> What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved brother

on

> his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction, towards

NADA,

> it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a real

> heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is the

> matter with me…..my Brother needs me and I am letting her affect me

> like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and forth a

> few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My husband

> finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't even

> try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the result

would

> be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat was

> removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted this

> way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

there?

> I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house in

> California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I not

going

> to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

things

> could happen to any of my family members, are they going to think I

> don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who had the

> accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay with

us

> for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as he

goes,

> he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

out OK.

> But if he had died…..would I have ever forgiven myself for not being

> with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother must

be

> for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being face to

> face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of? I

knew

> she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and not

> saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could picture

it,

> staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a look. I

> guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

hate me

> BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense than

it was

> when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not something

> mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you could

say

> she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she did.

But

> you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she actually has

> something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my whole

life

> to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time that

I

> stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified of

the

> repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked

witch,

> just waiting for her wrath to come.

>

>

>

> The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have to

give

> up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free of

her.

> I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I could

have

> a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes wish

she

> would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to go No

> Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for her to

> die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

with my

> life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well, but

leave

> me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please no one

> take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!!!!!!! I

just

> want her out of my life completely and forever, not really dead,

just

> dead to me.

>

>

>

> This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out of

fear

> that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left her she

> sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did

before.

> They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I don't.

> Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to forget

> about her and every time I turn the corner there is something that

she

> gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out everything

that

> was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders…..do you

> want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows up on

> my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or that

is.

> Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for fear

> she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her feelings.

My

> husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a visit she

> should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those things

> around……..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me one at a

> time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working but

as

> the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if she

ever

> came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing and I

> stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I still

see

> them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want to

> remove but I don't.

>

>

>

> Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting so

strong

> and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with my

> brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

Texas two

> step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one step

back

> but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go back

all

> the way.

>

>

>

> Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You're right -- so sorry to have cause offense. I was making the

point that the details still point to the same theme -- sometimes

people get so caught up in their individual details and think their

situation is unique, and the details can blind us to the few basic

tenets that are at work. It obviously reads in a possibly harsh

light.

So sorry to have caused offense -- to all readers who were offended.

-Kyla

> >

> >

> > I honestly didn't finish reading your post because the main

theme is

> > the same: Stop explaining yourself and honor your own

intentions

> > and desires.

> >

>

> Kyla! I am very disturbed by this post. I don't think your

message to this person was

> communicated in the way that would give the assistance I'm sure

you meant to provide. I

> feel I must come to the defense of this poor poster, who is

suffering acutely from two very

> typical responses to nada fog: fear of confrontation of nada, and

fear of being victim of a

> distortion campain in front of other family members. I don't like

the way you characterize

> her post several times as 'long' and 'involved'--words that are

negative, that imply her

> words are not worth reading, that there are too many of them, that

they don't deserve to

> be taken seriously. And then you admit to not even reading to

whole thing! As a KO you

> should know that every word a KO speaks is valid and important, no

matter how many

> words there are, and every word deserves to be taken seriously.

Every thought and

> emotion and yes, every WORD a KO has is a valuable message, a

message of what is

> unhealthy about what nada taught/inflicted, what needs to be

corrected. Why do we come

> to this board, if not to be heard and read?

>

> I also don't like the way that you gave a series of unconditional

orders to this person,

> some shouting, in a very bossy and intimidating manner. This

person just described very

> real panic attacks. How is shouting going to help with anxiety?

Anxiety comes largely

> from being forced into do things by fear--and your method of

communication sounds

> very much like force, and not like respectful advice.

>

> This post from Lotus was helpful to me. I hope that the poster

will continue to use the

> board, and to know that if someone replies in a threatening

manner, even unintentionally,

> that someone on the board WILL call them on it--because this is a

safe place.

>

[Guest guest]

---

I can relate to this. When nada finally agreed to send my father to hospice

house, I

decided to take family medical leave and stay with him while he died. Nada

f---ed with

me every chance she got, includng calling my sister while I was driving there

and telling

her to tell me not to come, that my father didn't want to see me if I didn't

have my then 5

y/o daughter with me. I called the hospice house and talked to the social

worker and

warned them about nada before I got there. I called two friends and talked and

got

emotional support. Then I went and spent 2 weeks with my father while he died.

I

managed to focus on him and spending this time with him, and not getting caught

up in

her drama. (At least until the very end and the funeral which was a classic

nada Jerry

Springer-style fiasco). But my point is, I agree with Kyla that in times like

this, you have

to focus on the person with whom you have the loving relationship, and avoid

nada's

baiting and attempts to create drama, which may include triangulating, thru

other people.

I'm not saying it's easy. It's probably necessary to not be alone with her at

all, whatever it

takes (talking to nurses, friends, relatives, etc. to make sure this doesn't

happen).

And remember, you are not a helpless child anymore. She can't physically hurt

you

anymore (without consequences anyway). You have every right to remove yourself

from

her presence if you don't want to see or talk to her. Your brother's admission

that he

wants her off his back is telling - this is really his problem now.

I recently went to a workshop by Lee, who has written a book on emotional

regression. I think he'd say that you were emotionally regressed at the time of

these panic

attacks. You may want to get his book " Growing Yourself Back Up " - I haven't

read it yet

but it's about regression.

I have very little contact with nada now, almost 2 years after my father's

death. Less

contact than I would have predicted. I just don't want to see or talk to her. I

feel panicky

when I see her # on my phone, but I usually just don't answer. She's been to

visit us twice

in the past year, and she's coming for TG this week, which I'm totally dreading.

It will be

very difficult to avoid arguing with her. But that is my goal...Superficial

conversations and

sitting with my head in a book while she visits with my daughter.

And I also wouldn't mind if she died, or was abducted by aliens.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " growinglotusflower "

wrote:

>

> Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been doing

> great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and like

> others in here it's really making a huge difference in my life. I'm

> starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail anziety is

> almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and relationships

> with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's absence in

> my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and feeling less

> guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that looking back

> a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months ago I had

> a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now able to

> really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really shook me to

> the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see my Nada

> again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone because

> that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-mails but I

> only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced myself, like

> someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even though we

> made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows my

> husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to him.

> Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my brother was

> in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This brother

> is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him so I

> wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I called my

> father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my brother was

> in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places and is

> now paralyzed from the waist down.

> At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad shape and

> may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his head was

> crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived and his

> head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very swollen.

> But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to see him

> before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than any of my

> siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time of his

> life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she lives in

> Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too so I

> don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from her. I

> feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because of

> her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move back to

> Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go back for

> visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to see them

> and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what BPD

> is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or that I was

> there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My husband

> and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go see my

> brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on the cell

> phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to call

> Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here and where

> you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who was

> in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and she had

> nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the hospital to

> see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she would go

> there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about him. The

> brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he only cares

> if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He says that

> since I left she started treating him bad like she always treated me and

> he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him alone. Nice

> brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened and

> then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were only a

> couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call my Mom.

> As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .….anywhere….at the

> hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> house….anywhere…..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like I

> wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my husband said

> " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " …..the more

> I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO way I

> am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> security guards all around you every where you go so she can't even

> get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to see her

> and deal with her…..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled over and

> talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to California.

> Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be best to

> not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few miles

> down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that I

> didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing brother, I

> HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity again.

> What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved brother on

> his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction, towards NADA,

> it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a real

> heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is the

> matter with me…..my Brother needs me and I am letting her affect me

> like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and forth a

> few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My husband

> finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't even

> try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the result would

> be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat was

> removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted this

> way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is there?

> I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house in

> California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I not going

> to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many things

> could happen to any of my family members, are they going to think I

> don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who had the

> accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay with us

> for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as he goes,

> he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned out OK.

> But if he had died…..would I have ever forgiven myself for not being

> with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother must be

> for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being face to

> face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of? I knew

> she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and not

> saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could picture it,

> staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a look. I

> guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to hate me

> BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense than it was

> when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not something

> mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you could say

> she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she did. But

> you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she actually has

> something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my whole life

> to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time that I

> stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified of the

> repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked witch,

> just waiting for her wrath to come.

>

>

>

> The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have to give

> up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free of her.

> I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I could have

> a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes wish she

> would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to go No

> Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for her to

> die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on with my

> life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well, but leave

> me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please no one

> take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!!!!!!! I just

> want her out of my life completely and forever, not really dead, just

> dead to me.

>

>

>

> This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out of fear

> that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left her she

> sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did before.

> They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I don't.

> Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to forget

> about her and every time I turn the corner there is something that she

> gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out everything that

> was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders…..do you

> want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows up on

> my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or that is.

> Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for fear

> she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her feelings. My

> husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a visit she

> should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those things

> around……..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me one at a

> time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working but as

> the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if she ever

> came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing and I

> stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I still see

> them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want to

> remove but I don't.

>

>

>

> Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting so strong

> and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with my

> brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the Texas two

> step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one step back

> but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go back all

> the way.

>

>

>

> Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. Kudos for your courage in being there for your dad in spite of

your nada, and kudos for going very LC with your nada.

When she visits you over Thanksgiving, though, I just hope that your

nada isn't the kind who will try to get even with you for standing up

to her by getting your little 5-year-old alone and saying creepy,

frightening, damaging things to the child. ( " Your mommy is a hateful

mean witch, isn't she? You love grandma but your mommy wants to keep

you away from me. Your Mommy is so bad for keeping us apart that she's

going to go to hell when she dies... " etc.,etc.)

Is there any way you can keep them from being alone together?

I don't think nadas should be trusted around little kids, myself.

Children have absolutely NO defenses against emotional abuse,

particularly if they love, trust, or (conversely) are afraid of the

person abusing them.

A 5-year-old can't say, " Oh shut up, grandma, you're full of crap! "

or " How dare you say that about my mother, you crazy old bitch! "

They need us to do that for them!

-Annie

(So much for " compassionate detachment " , huh?)

> >

> > Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been doing

> > great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and like

> > others in here it's really making a huge difference in my life. I'm

> > starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail anziety is

> > almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and relationships

> > with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

absence in

> > my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and feeling

less

> > guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that

looking back

> > a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months ago

I had

> > a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

able to

> > really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really shook

me to

> > the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see my

Nada

> > again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone because

> > that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-mails

but I

> > only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced myself, like

> > someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even though we

> > made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows my

> > husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to him.

> > Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my

brother was

> > in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

brother

> > is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him so I

> > wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

called my

> > father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my brother was

> > in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places and is

> > now paralyzed from the waist down.

> > At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

shape and

> > may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

head was

> > crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived

and his

> > head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very swollen.

> > But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to

see him

> > before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than any

of my

> > siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time

of his

> > life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she lives in

> > Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too so I

> > don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from her. I

> > feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because of

> > her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move back to

> > Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go back for

> > visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to see them

> > and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what BPD

> > is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or that

I was

> > there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

husband

> > and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

see my

> > brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on the

cell

> > phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> > isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to call

> > Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here and

where

> > you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who was

> > in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

she had

> > nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the hospital to

> > see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she would go

> > there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about him. The

> > brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he only cares

> > if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He says that

> > since I left she started treating him bad like she always treated

me and

> > he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him alone.

Nice

> > brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> > didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened and

> > then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were only a

> > couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call my Mom.

> > As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .�.anywhere�.at the

> > hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> > house�.anywhere�..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like I

> > wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> > ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my husband

said

> > " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> > just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " �..the more

> > I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO way I

> > am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> > the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> > your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> > security guards all around you every where you go so she can't even

> > get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> > everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

see her

> > and deal with her�..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> > finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled over and

> > talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

California.

> > Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be best to

> > not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few miles

> > down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that I

> > didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> > thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing brother, I

> > HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity again.

> > What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved brother on

> > his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> > OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction, towards

NADA,

> > it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a real

> > heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is the

> > matter with me�..my Brother needs me and I am letting her affect me

> > like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and forth a

> > few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My husband

> > finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't even

> > try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the result

would

> > be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat was

> > removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted this

> > way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> > unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

there?

> > I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house in

> > California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I not

going

> > to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

things

> > could happen to any of my family members, are they going to think I

> > don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> > as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who had the

> > accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay with us

> > for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as he

goes,

> > he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

out OK.

> > But if he had died�..would I have ever forgiven myself for not being

> > with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> > realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother must be

> > for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being face to

> > face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of? I knew

> > she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> > anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and not

> > saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could

picture it,

> > staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a look. I

> > guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

hate me

> > BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense than

it was

> > when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not something

> > mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you could say

> > she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she did.

But

> > you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she actually has

> > something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my

whole life

> > to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time that I

> > stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified

of the

> > repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked witch,

> > just waiting for her wrath to come.

> >

> >

> >

> > The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have to give

> > up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free of

her.

> > I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I could

have

> > a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes wish she

> > would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to go No

> > Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for her to

> > die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

with my

> > life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well, but

leave

> > me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> > someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please no one

> > take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!!!!!!! I just

> > want her out of my life completely and forever, not really dead, just

> > dead to me.

> >

> >

> >

> > This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out

of fear

> > that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> > other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left her she

> > sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did before.

> > They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I don't.

> > Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to forget

> > about her and every time I turn the corner there is something that she

> > gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out everything that

> > was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders�..do you

> > want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows up on

> > my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or that is.

> > Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for fear

> > she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her feelings. My

> > husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a visit she

> > should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those things

> > around��..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me one at a

> > time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working but as

> > the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if she ever

> > came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing and I

> > stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I still see

> > them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want to

> > remove but I don't.

> >

> >

> >

> > Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting so

strong

> > and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with my

> > brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> > starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

Texas two

> > step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one step back

> > but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go back all

> > the way.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

---

I don't think we will leave my daughter (now almost 7) alone with

nada at all. I will sit and read while they play. we will go out to

eat and to church. nada will be so put-out at having to travel that

she will complain of being " sick " and want to sleep a lot anyway.

She will refuse offers to go shopping or do other fun things.

This sounds really crazy, but my sister and I are considering getting

a room at the motel where nada will be staying (our 2 bedroom apt

isn't big enough for us, let alone nada too), so that we can visit

for short periods, then go to our own room. And, there's a hot tub.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " anuria67854 " <anuria-

67854@...> wrote:

>

> Wow. Kudos for your courage in being there for your dad in spite of

> your nada, and kudos for going very LC with your nada.

>

> When she visits you over Thanksgiving, though, I just hope that your

> nada isn't the kind who will try to get even with you for standing

up

> to her by getting your little 5-year-old alone and saying creepy,

> frightening, damaging things to the child. ( " Your mommy is a hateful

> mean witch, isn't she? You love grandma but your mommy wants to keep

> you away from me. Your Mommy is so bad for keeping us apart that

she's

> going to go to hell when she dies... " etc.,etc.)

>

> Is there any way you can keep them from being alone together?

>

> I don't think nadas should be trusted around little kids, myself.

>

> Children have absolutely NO defenses against emotional abuse,

> particularly if they love, trust, or (conversely) are afraid of the

> person abusing them.

>

> A 5-year-old can't say, " Oh shut up, grandma, you're full of crap! "

> or " How dare you say that about my mother, you crazy old bitch! "

> They need us to do that for them!

>

> -Annie

>

> (So much for " compassionate detachment " , huh?)

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been

doing

> > > great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and

like

> > > others in here it's really making a huge difference in my

life. I'm

> > > starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail

anziety is

> > > almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and

relationships

> > > with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

> absence in

> > > my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and

feeling

> less

> > > guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that

> looking back

> > > a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months

ago

> I had

> > > a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

> able to

> > > really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really

shook

> me to

> > > the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see

my

> Nada

> > > again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone

because

> > > that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-

mails

> but I

> > > only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced

myself, like

> > > someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even

though we

> > > made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows

my

> > > husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to

him.

> > > Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my

> brother was

> > > in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

> brother

> > > is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him

so I

> > > wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

> called my

> > > father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my

brother was

> > > in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places

and is

> > > now paralyzed from the waist down.

> > > At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

> shape and

> > > may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

> head was

> > > crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived

> and his

> > > head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very

swollen.

> > > But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to

> see him

> > > before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than

any

> of my

> > > siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time

> of his

> > > life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she

lives in

> > > Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too

so I

> > > don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from

her. I

> > > feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because

of

> > > her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move

back to

> > > Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go

back for

> > > visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to

see them

> > > and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what

BPD

> > > is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or

that

> I was

> > > there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

> husband

> > > and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

> see my

> > > brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on

the

> cell

> > > phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> > > isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to

call

> > > Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here

and

> where

> > > you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who

was

> > > in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

> she had

> > > nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the

hospital to

> > > see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she

would go

> > > there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about

him. The

> > > brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he

only cares

> > > if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He

says that

> > > since I left she started treating him bad like she always

treated

> me and

> > > he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him

alone.

> Nice

> > > brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> > > didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened

and

> > > then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were

only a

> > > couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call

my Mom.

> > > As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .�.anywhere�.at the

> > > hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> > > house�.anywhere�..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like

I

> > > wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> > > ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my

husband

> said

> > > " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> > > just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " �..the more

> > > I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO

way I

> > > am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> > > the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> > > your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> > > security guards all around you every where you go so she can't

even

> > > get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> > > everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

> see her

> > > and deal with her�..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> > > finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled

over and

> > > talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

> California.

> > > Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be

best to

> > > not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few

miles

> > > down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that

I

> > > didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> > > thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing

brother, I

> > > HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity

again.

> > > What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved

brother on

> > > his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> > > OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction,

towards

> NADA,

> > > it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a

real

> > > heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is

the

> > > matter with me�..my Brother needs me and I am letting her

affect me

> > > like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and

forth a

> > > few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My

husband

> > > finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't

even

> > > try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the

result

> would

> > > be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat

was

> > > removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted

this

> > > way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> > > unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

> there?

> > > I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house

in

> > > California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I

not

> going

> > > to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

> things

> > > could happen to any of my family members, are they going to

think I

> > > don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> > > as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who

had the

> > > accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay

with us

> > > for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as

he

> goes,

> > > he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

> out OK.

> > > But if he had died�..would I have ever forgiven myself for

not being

> > > with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> > > realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother

must be

> > > for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being

face to

> > > face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of?

I knew

> > > she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> > > anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and

not

> > > saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could

> picture it,

> > > staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a

look. I

> > > guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

> hate me

> > > BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense

than

> it was

> > > when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not

something

> > > mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you

could say

> > > she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she

did.

> But

> > > you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she

actually has

> > > something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my

> whole life

> > > to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time

that I

> > > stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified

> of the

> > > repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked

witch,

> > > just waiting for her wrath to come.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have

to give

> > > up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free

of

> her.

> > > I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I

could

> have

> > > a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes

wish she

> > > would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to

go No

> > > Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for

her to

> > > die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

> with my

> > > life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well,

but

> leave

> > > me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> > > someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please

no one

> > > take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!!!!!!!

I just

> > > want her out of my life completely and forever, not really

dead, just

> > > dead to me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out

> of fear

> > > that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> > > other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left

her she

> > > sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did

before.

> > > They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I

don't.

> > > Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to

forget

> > > about her and every time I turn the corner there is something

that she

> > > gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out

everything that

> > > was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders�..do

you

> > > want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows

up on

> > > my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or

that is.

> > > Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for

fear

> > > she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her

feelings. My

> > > husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a

visit she

> > > should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those

things

> > > around��..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me

one at a

> > > time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working

but as

> > > the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if

she ever

> > > came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing

and I

> > > stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I

still see

> > > them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want

to

> > > remove but I don't.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting

so

> strong

> > > and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with

my

> > > brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> > > starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

> Texas two

> > > step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one

step back

> > > but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go

back all

> > > the way.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I think that's a great idea! Having separate rooms at a hotel/motel

so you can physically leave nada's premises when she starts acting out

ought to work fine! Much better than having her stay in your home:

then you're the one who has to vacate when you can't stand it anymore.

Have a great Thanksgiving with your sister, your little girl, and the

hot tub!

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been

> doing

> > > > great! It's been a year and a half since I spoke to Nada and

> like

> > > > others in here it's really making a huge difference in my

> life. I'm

> > > > starting to feel more confident and strong and my socail

> anziety is

> > > > almost a thing of the past. My health is improving and

> relationships

> > > > with my husband and friends are all benefiting from my Nada's

> > absence in

> > > > my life. I too am starting to find the joy in living and

> feeling

> > less

> > > > guilty for enjoying myself with out Nada. I would say that

> > looking back

> > > > a year ago to today I am 1000% better. BUT just a few months

> ago

> > I had

> > > > a huge set back. That is why I am writting today, I am just now

> > able to

> > > > really talk about it because it was so upsetting and really

> shook

> > me to

> > > > the core that I was so affected by the thought of having to see

> my

> > Nada

> > > > again. I got a call...from my Nada on my husbad's cell phone

> because

> > > > that is the only way she still has to call me. She still e-

> mails

> > but I

> > > > only read them when I feel like it, or when I have braced

> myself, like

> > > > someone else put it. She never calls my husband's cell even

> though we

> > > > made it clear that is how she can contact me, because she knows

> my

> > > > husband won't put up with her bull so she is afraid to talk to

> him.

> > > > Anyway, she calls one day and just tells my husband that my

> > brother was

> > > > in a car accident and wasn't going to make it and hung up. This

> > brother

> > > > is not her son, in fact she has really nothing to do with him

> so I

> > > > wasn't quite sure how she even knew about the car accident. I

> > called my

> > > > father's family to find out what was going on. In fact my

> brother was

> > > > in a terrible car accident and broke his back in several places

> and is

> > > > now paralyzed from the waist down.

> > > > At the time my Father (step Dad) thought my brother was in bad

> > shape and

> > > > may not make it either as he had been told that the back of his

> > head was

> > > > crushed in. It turned out not to be the case, my brother lived

> > and his

> > > > head was not as bad as they first thought, it was just very

> swollen.

> > > > But at the time all I could think is that I had to get there to

> > see him

> > > > before he died. I am very close to this brother, closer than

> any

> > of my

> > > > siblings and I could not imagine not being with him at this time

> > of his

> > > > life. I live in California now to be far away from Nada, she

> lives in

> > > > Texas. Unfortunately all my other relatives live in Texas too

> so I

> > > > don't see any of them anymore, just so I can stay away from

> her. I

> > > > feel sad that I can't be close to the rest of them just because

> of

> > > > her. I have a life now in California and don't want to move

> back to

> > > > Texas but it makes me sad that I feel too guilty to even go

> back for

> > > > visits because I worry she will be hurt that I went there to

> see them

> > > > and not her. I don't think any of them really understand what

> BPD

> > > > is and end up calling and telling her when I will be there or

> that

> > I was

> > > > there. Well, I thought I was doing so great until that day. My

> > husband

> > > > and kids and I all jumped in the car and heading for Texas to go

> > see my

> > > > brother in the hospital. Another brother was talking to me on

> the

> > cell

> > > > phone while we were driving and said " I know this probably

> > > > isn't the right time to bring this up but you really need to

> call

> > > > Mom (Nada) and tell her your coming and when you will be here

> and

> > where

> > > > you are staying. " Again, she has no ties with the brother who

> was

> > > > in the hospital. I felt like I should be able to go see him and

> > she had

> > > > nothing to do with it. She wouldn't be going out to the

> hospital to

> > > > see him on her own. If she knew I was at the hospital she

> would go

> > > > there to see me. It wasn't about her and me, it was about

> him. The

> > > > brother who was telling me to call her has admitted that he

> only cares

> > > > if I make up with her so that she will get off his back. He

> says that

> > > > since I left she started treating him bad like she always

> treated

> > me and

> > > > he wants me to come back in her life so she will leave him

> alone.

> > Nice

> > > > brother huh? Throw me under the bus to save him self. Well, I

> > > > didn't say anything to him on the phone about it, just listened

> and

> > > > then talked to my husband about it after I hung up. We were

> only a

> > > > couple of hours into the trip when my brother told me to call

> my Mom.

> > > > As I tried to picture seeing my Nada .�.anywhere�.at the

> > > > hospital, at the hotel, at her house, at my Dad's

> > > > house�.anywhere�..I was terrified! TERRIFIED! I mean like

> I

> > > > wanted to die TERRIFIED! I started having chest pains and hyper

> > > > ventilating and bawling crying to my husband. The more my

> husband

> > said

> > > > " don't worry about her " , " who cares if she shows up,

> > > > just ignore her " , " don't let her get to you " �..the more

> > > > I panicked. I guess it would have been better if he said, " NO

> way I

> > > > am not going to let her see you " , " I will put armed guards at

> > > > the hospital door to keep her out " , " I will tell the rest of

> > > > your family to back off and stay out of it " , " I will have

> > > > security guards all around you every where you go so she can't

> even

> > > > get a peek at you " . Maybe then I would have felt better. But

> > > > everything he was saying was telling me that YES I might have to

> > see her

> > > > and deal with her�..and I didn't think I could do it. He

> > > > finally said this is stupid and stopped the car. We pulled

> over and

> > > > talking about it and he said lets turn around and go back to

> > California.

> > > > Because I was having a panic attack I agreed that it would be

> best to

> > > > not go and we turned around and headed away from Texas. A few

> miles

> > > > down the road I could feel that I had calmed down thinking that

> I

> > > > didn't have to see Nada after all. As I calmed down even more I

> > > > thought, OK I can do this, and I have to go see my dieing

> brother, I

> > > > HAVE TO, he's dieing and I will never get this opportunity

> again.

> > > > What was I thinking letting my Nada keep me for my beloved

> brother on

> > > > his death bed, " TURN THE CAR AROUND, we are going to TEXAS " .

> > > > OK, as soon as the car pointed in the opposite direction,

> towards

> > NADA,

> > > > it started all over again, chest pains, thinking I was having a

> real

> > > > heart attack, the hyper ventilating, bawling. What the heck is

> the

> > > > matter with me�..my Brother needs me and I am letting her

> affect me

> > > > like this? OK, I'll spare you any more, we drove back and

> forth a

> > > > few times with the same result, it was pretty stupid. My

> husband

> > > > finally said enough and we headed back to California. I didn't

> even

> > > > try to talk him into turning again because I knew what the

> result

> > would

> > > > be. The panic attacks would go away shortly after the threat

> was

> > > > removed. I was exhausted! I couldn't believe that I reacted

> this

> > > > way. I had improved so much over the last year and this was so

> > > > unexpected. Will I never be able to go back to Texas if she is

> > there?

> > > > I have the same fear thinking about her showing up at my house

> in

> > > > California too. What happens when my Grand parents die, am I

> not

> > going

> > > > to be able to attend their funeral for the same reason? So many

> > things

> > > > could happen to any of my family members, are they going to

> think I

> > > > don't love them if I don't come out for important events, such

> > > > as my brother's car accident? I have talked the brother who

> had the

> > > > accident many times since then and he plans on coming to stay

> with us

> > > > for a while after he gets a little more independent. As far as

> he

> > goes,

> > > > he loves me and I love him and we both know it and it all turned

> > out OK.

> > > > But if he had died�..would I have ever forgiven myself for

> not being

> > > > with him? You know I got really angry with my Nada after that,

> > > > realizing that she had done this to me. How horrible a Mother

> must be

> > > > for her daughter to react this way over the thought of being

> face to

> > > > face with her? That is so NOT NORMAL! What was I afraid of?

> I knew

> > > > she wouldn't hit me, or kill me, or run over me with her car or

> > > > anything like that. Just the thought of her looking at me and

> not

> > > > saying a word was terrifying. The look in her eye, I could

> > picture it,

> > > > staring at me and saying so much hate and evil with just a

> look. I

> > > > guess I am terrified that now that she actually has a reason to

> > hate me

> > > > BECAUSE I LEFT HER, that her hate will be even more intense

> than

> > it was

> > > > when I had done nothing wrong. I know leaving her was not

> something

> > > > mean I did to her, I did that for my own survival. And you

> could say

> > > > she did that to herself for treating her daughter the way she

> did.

> > But

> > > > you and I know that is not the way they think! Now she

> actually has

> > > > something to hold over my head that I DID TO HER. I tried my

> > whole life

> > > > to please her at the expense of myself, this is the first time

> that I

> > > > stopped trying to please her to save myself. Now I am terrified

> > of the

> > > > repercussions of my actions. Finally standing up to the wicked

> witch,

> > > > just waiting for her wrath to come.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The saddest thing for me to realize is that I feel like I have

> to give

> > > > up my relationship with everyone in my family to truly be free

> of

> > her.

> > > > I hate to sound so insensitive, but if only she would DIE, I

> could

> > have

> > > > a whole life here on earth. I hate to admit that I sometimes

> wish she

> > > > would die, but I do. That is one of the reasons I decided to

> go No

> > > > Contact. I couldn't just keep holding my breath waiting for

> her to

> > > > die. I decided to pretend like she was dead, so I could move on

> > with my

> > > > life, instead of wishing bad things on her. I wish her well,

> but

> > leave

> > > > me alone. Problem is she's not really dead and how do I bury

> > > > someone that keeps showing up at other family events? Please

> no one

> > > > take this wrong, I would never kill her or anyone!!!!!!!!!!!

> I just

> > > > want her out of my life completely and forever, not really

> dead, just

> > > > dead to me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This makes me think of something else I keep holding onto out

> > of fear

> > > > that I don't want to. I still have dishes that she gave me and

> > > > other gifts from her all over my house, in fact since I left

> her she

> > > > sends me even more gifts and for occasions that she never did

> before.

> > > > They are all manipulations to get me to contact her, but I

> don't.

> > > > Anyway, I don't want these reminders in my house. I want to

> forget

> > > > about her and every time I turn the corner there is something

> that she

> > > > gave me sitting there. What I want to do it clear out

> everything that

> > > > was hers or came from her so that there is no reminders�..do

> you

> > > > want to know why I haven't? Because I fear the day she shows

> up on

> > > > my door step and comes in and wants to know where this is or

> that is.

> > > > Why am I so afraid of that? I'm afraid to throw things out for

> fear

> > > > she will find out I got rid of them and it will hurt her

> feelings. My

> > > > husband says if she ever gets healthy enough to come for a

> visit she

> > > > should be able to understand why I didn't want to keep those

> things

> > > > around��..ha ha ha! I was breaking the dishes she gave me

> one at a

> > > > time when I had a bad day to help me feel free. It was working

> but as

> > > > the dishes started running low and I started to worry that if

> she ever

> > > > came over un-invited she would notice that some were missing

> and I

> > > > stopped breaking them. Now when I open up to top cabinets I

> still see

> > > > them sitting there and it's like a thorn in my side that I want

> to

> > > > remove but I don't.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ok, I have gone on and on. You know I felt like I was getting

> so

> > strong

> > > > and doing so much better and then I had the huge set back with

> my

> > > > brother's accident. Then now as the holidays get closer I am

> > > > starting once again to feel anxiety. Tell me this is like the

> > Texas two

> > > > step dance where you have to move two steps forward and one

> step back

> > > > but that you do keep moving forward all the time and never go

> back all

> > > > the way.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for listening! Lotus flower

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >