Re: Three year evaluation

October 5, 1999

Does anyone on this list know anything about the " pre three-year

evaluation " done on students once they have been in the special ed. program

after three years? It's done to see if the program is working for the

child, and to discuss if further programs/any programs need to be added or

continue. How important is it for parents to be at this meeting, and do

parents usually attend? This is not the IEP meeting, it is the

evaluation/review done prior to the IEP after the child has been in special

ed for three years. From then on it is done every three years also. Any

info would be appreciated.

October 5, 1999

But isn't this just that....a meeting about your child? I want to make

sure and understand this because I don't want to not attend this meeting

and look stupid, but I don't want to be there and not know why I am there.

>

> However, if the school district personnel have a meeting about my child,

I always make it a

> point to be there (and I have to leave work to attend.)

>

> Judy

>

> Re: Three year evaluation

>

> >

> > Does anyone on this list know anything about the " pre three-year

> > evaluation " done on students once they have been in the special ed.

> program

> > after three years? It's done to see if the program is working for the

> > child, and to discuss if further programs/any programs need to be added

or

> > continue. How important is it for parents to be at this meeting, and

do

> > parents usually attend? This is not the IEP meeting, it is the

> > evaluation/review done prior to the IEP after the child has been in

> special

> > ed for three years. From then on it is done every three years also.

Any

> > info would be appreciated.

> >

> > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each

post

> is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

> copyright restrictions.

> >

>

> > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post

is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

copyright restrictions.

October 5, 1999

I think you may be referring to a meeting prior to the three year evaluation

to determine what evaluations will be done (e.g. speech, language, social,

psychological.) They don't have to do every evaluation all the time and

you can decide together which would be useful for your child. I did this

via a telephone discussion with my child's case manager. However, if the

school district personnel have a meeting about my child, I always make it a

point to be there (and I have to leave work to attend.)

Judy

Re: Three year evaluation

>

> Does anyone on this list know anything about the " pre three-year

> evaluation " done on students once they have been in the special ed.

program

> after three years? It's done to see if the program is working for the

> child, and to discuss if further programs/any programs need to be added or

> continue. How important is it for parents to be at this meeting, and do

> parents usually attend? This is not the IEP meeting, it is the

> evaluation/review done prior to the IEP after the child has been in

special

> ed for three years. From then on it is done every three years also. Any

> info would be appreciated.

>

> > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post

is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

copyright restrictions.

>

October 5, 1999

Maybe I wasn't clear, my school district does not have a pre-evaluation

meeting -- we do it via a telephone conference. However, if they did have a

meeting, I would make it a point to be there.

Since you seem unclear as to what the meeting is about, ask the school

personnel the purpose of the meeting and its agenda. It's important to

remember that we as parents have a lot more power than we realize. I have a

college education and have worked in corporate America for 20+ years. I

don't mind asking the educators to explain everything and anything,

especially when they start talking in educational jargon. You have a right

(and obligation) to know and understand everything being discussed about

your child. If you don't know what the meeting is about, it's because you

were not properly informed.

Judy

Re: Three year evaluation

> >

> > >

> > > Does anyone on this list know anything about the " pre three-year

> > > evaluation " done on students once they have been in the special ed.

> > program

> > > after three years? It's done to see if the program is working for the

> > > child, and to discuss if further programs/any programs need to be

added

> or

> > > continue. How important is it for parents to be at this meeting, and

> do

> > > parents usually attend? This is not the IEP meeting, it is the

> > > evaluation/review done prior to the IEP after the child has been in

> > special

> > > ed for three years. From then on it is done every three years also.

> Any

> > > info would be appreciated.

> > >

> > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each

> post

> > is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

> > copyright restrictions.

> > >

> >

> > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each

post

> is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

> copyright restrictions.

>

> > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post

is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

copyright restrictions.

>

October 6, 1999

>But isn't this just that....a meeting about your child? I want to make

>sure and understand this because I don't want to not attend this meeting

>and look stupid, but I don't want to be there and not know why I am there.

>

I wouldn't care if I knew why I was there or not. If they are discussing my

child I want to be there.

Barb

October 6, 1999

In a message dated 10/6/99 10:38:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDUPLAN@...

writes:

> OK this is my take on this......according to the new IDEA regs. they have to

> get parental consent for testing EVERY TIME, and as someone else mentioned,

> you can now pick and choose what areas need to be tested.

CELESTE WHERE ARE YOU!?!?!

I think that a school district can test your child again, without permission,

in an area where they have already tested the child. If it is a test which

has NOT been done before, then, it requires a signed consent form.

For the triennial, which as far as I know, in NY, anyway, takes place prior

to Kindergarten and every three yrs after that. It should be the full

battery of tests, not just one or two, as it is a guide to see how the child

is progressing with the current placement and IEP!

CELESETE!?!?!?!

Orla

October 6, 1999

>

>But isn't this just that....a meeting about your child? I want to make

> >sure and understand this because I don't want to not attend this meeting

> >and look stupid, but I don't want to be there and not know why I am

there.

> >

>

> I wouldn't care if I knew why I was there or not. If they are discussing

my

> child I want to be there.

>

> Barb

OK this is my take on this......according to the new IDEA regs. they have to

get parental consent for testing EVERY TIME, and as someone else mentioned,

you can now pick and choose what areas need to be tested. So this meeting

appears to be just that, a meeting to discuss what tests will be given to

the child and to have the parents sign giving consent for the testing. I

would say it is important to go, you should know what areas they plan to

test your child in and also you may think of something that should be

addressed that they have over looked. (oh no, did I say that? School

personnel over looking an area a child needs help in!!!!!! I should be

ashamed!!! NOT)

RoseAnn

October 6, 1999

>From: OMac353@...

>

>In a message dated 10/6/99 10:38:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDUPLAN@...

>writes:

>

>> OK this is my take on this......according to the new IDEA regs. they have to

>> get parental consent for testing EVERY TIME, and as someone else mentioned,

>> you can now pick and choose what areas need to be tested.

>

>CELESTE WHERE ARE YOU!?!?!

Just got back from the doc - ridiculous what is required for pre-op on

a measley, old thumb. Bloodwork, vitals, urinalysis, EKG, all for a 30

min outpatient surgery using a regional anaesthetic. Sheesh! The

testing took longer than the surgery will. I tell you, it's age

discrimination! I don't think they would make a youngster go through

all this for a nodule on the tendon of the thumb.

>I think that a school district can test your child again, without permission,

>in an area where they have already tested the child. If it is a test which

>has NOT been done before, then, it requires a signed consent form.

That was before. Now, IDEA-97 changed the rules about evals and

re-evals. It used to be that the schools could test your child without

your permission, if the child was already in sped. That is no longer

the case. The schools MUST have your permission for every, single

test/eval that the TEAM agrees should be done, whether or not it was

done previously. (Note that the TEAM must recommend it, not some

speducrat dictate it. Not that the team would defy their boss, but at

least the boss can't leave a message on your machine that they are

going to do a gazillion tests on your kid, and have a nice life.) The

parent has the right to grant or deny **informed** consent. 34 CFR

§300.500 General responsibility of public agencies; definitions, states

in pertinent part:

" (1) Consent means that --

(i) The parent has been fully informed of all information relevant to

the activity for which consent is sought, in his or her native

language, or other mode of communication;

(ii) The parent understands and agrees in writing to the carrying out

of the activity for which his or her consent is sought, and the consent

describes that activity and lists the records (if any) that will be

released and to whom; "

However, if the parents deny consent and the district feels strongly

enough, (for whatever reason - sometimes it's just showing us who is

boss) they can initiate a due process hearing (bearing the burden of

proof) to get a hearing officer's order to override the parent's

objection(s) and grant permission for the evaluation(s). Of course,

procedural safeguards apply, so if the district goes that route, they

must provide the parents with Prior Written Notice. To wit, 34 CFR

§300.503 requires public agencies to provide:

" (a) Notice. (1) Written notice that meets the requirements of

paragraph ( of this section must be given to the parents of a child

with a disability a reasonable time before the public agency--

(I) Proposes to initiate or change the identification, evaluation, or

educational placement of the child or the provision of FAPE to the

child; or

(ii) Refuses to initiate or change the identification, evaluation, or

educational placement of the child or the provision of FAPE to the

child.

(2) If the notice described under paragraph (a)(1) of this section

relates to an action proposed by the public agency that also requires

parental consent under Sec. 300.505, the agency may give notice at the

same time it requests parent consent.

( Content of notice. The notice required under paragraph (a) of this

section must include--

(1) A description of the action proposed or refused by the agency;

(2) An explanation of why the agency proposes or refuses to take the

action;

(3) A description of any other options that the agency considered and

the reasons why those options were rejected;

(4) A description of each evaluation procedure, test, record, or report

the agency used as a basis for the proposed or refused action;

(5) A description of any other factors that are relevant to the

agency's proposal or refusal;

(6) A statement that the parents of a child with a disability have

protection under the procedural safeguards of this part and, if this

notice is not an initial referral for evaluation, the means by which a

copy of a description of the procedural safeguards can be obtained; and

(7) Sources for parents to contact to obtain assistance in

understanding the provisions of this part.

paragraph (a) of this section must be--

(I) Written in language understandable to the general public; and

(ii) Provided in the native language of the parent or other mode of

communication used by the parent, unless it is clearly not feasible to

do so.

(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1415((3), (4) and ©, 1414((1)) "

And, if the parents lose, they can go up through the appeal process.

For that matter, so can the schools. But if the parents agree to the

eval(s) or it is ordered and they don't fight it, they can always

request an independent educational evaluation at the district's

expense.

>For the triennial, which as far as I know, in NY, anyway, takes place prior

>to Kindergarten and every three yrs after that. It should be the full

>battery of tests, not just one or two, as it is a guide to see how the child

>is progressing with the current placement and IEP!

The triennial eval serves two purposes: 1) to determine if the child

remains eligible for special education, and if so, under what

categories; and 2) to provide comprehensive educational testing to

measure progress and levels of academic performance. The first

comprehensive eval is done when the child is first suspected or

identified as having a condition that makes him/her eligible for

special ed, and then at least every three years from that date. Prior

to the '97 amendments, the eligibility re-eval HAD to take place, even

though for most of our kids, the deafness is permanent. Now, that part

may be waived if there is a statement from an otologist that the

child's hearing loss is permanent, and the team - which includes THE

PARENTS - agrees that the testing is unnecessary. Part II of Appendix A

to Part 300 of the Implementing Regulations to IDEA states:

" The Congressional Committee Reports on the IDEA Amendments of 1997

express the view that the Amendments provide an opportunity for

strengthening the role of parents, and emphasize that one of the

purposes of the Amendments is to expand opportunities for parents and

key public agency staff (e.g., special education, related services,

regular education, and early intervention service providers, and other

personnel) to work in new partnerships at both the State and local

levels (H. Rep. 105-95, p. 82 (1997); S. Rep. No. 105-17, p. 4 and 5

(1997)). "

Accordingly, the IDEA Amendments of 1997 require that parents have an

opportunity to participate in meetings with respect to the

identification, evaluation, and educational placement of the child, and

the provision of FAPE to the child. (Sec. 300.501(a)(2)). Thus, parents

must now be part of:

" (1) the group that determines what additional data are needed as part

of an evaluation of their child (Sec. 300.533(a)(1));

(2) the team that determines their child's eligibility

(Sec.300.534(a)(1)); and

(3) the group that makes decisions on the educational placement of

their child (Sec. 300.501©). "

Additionally §300.501 Opportunity to examine records; parent

participation in meetings, requires:

" (a) General. The parents of a child with a disability must be

afforded, in accordance with the procedures of Secs. 300.562-300.569,

an opportunity to--

(2) Participate in meetings with respect to --

(i) The identification, evaluation, and educational placement of the

child; and

(ii) The provision of FAPE to the child.

( Parent participation in meetings. (1) Each public agency shall

provide notice consistent with Sec. 300.345(a)(1) and ((1) to ensure

that parents of children with disabilities have the opportunity to

participate in meetings described in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. "

In particular, §300.533 Determination of needed evaluation data,

requires:

" (a) Review of existing evaluation data. As part of an initial

evaluation (if appropriate) and as part of any reevaluation under Part

B of the Act, a group that includes the individuals described in

§300.344, and other qualified professionals, as appropriate, shall

(1) review existing evaluation data on the child, including

(i) Evaluations and information provided by the parents of the child; .

.. .

(2) On the basis of that review, and input from the childs parents,

identify what additional data, if any, are needed to determine

(i) Whether the child has a particular category of disability, as

described in §300.7, or, in the case of a reevaluation of a child,

whether the child continues to have such a disability; "

(Lest you all think that I keyed all of this in with a bum hand, I

should confess that I copied and pasted most of this from a brief I

wrote this summer.)

Personally, I think it is a good idea for the school to do an audiogram

at least once every year, so I would not waive that, even though it is

not necessary for an eligibility determination if the oto has provided

a statement that this is a permanent condition. Additionally, schools

like to dismiss the need for psychoeducational testing, not only to

save $$, but because they are reluctant to provide objective data

relative the the child's progress and levels of academic performance.

Therefore, I advise all my clients to request a complete speech and

lang eval as well as a complete achievement battery, with an additional

reading eval and a test of written language, and for the signing

students, an SCPI, at LEAST every three years, if not more often.

Intelligence testing at about age 7 is not a bad idea, either, and

maybe again 5 years or so later, if the parents have reason to suspect

that the child is actually brighter than what the first eval showed,

but performed poorly for whatever reason. Don't forget, IQ tests on

deaf kids should not use the verbal scales.

Celeste

October 6, 1999

>> OK this is my take on this......according to the new IDEA regs. they have

to

>> get parental consent for testing EVERY TIME, and as someone else

mentioned,

>> you can now pick and choose what areas need to be tested.

>

>CELESTE WHERE ARE YOU!?!?!

As far as i understand the new regs not every test has to be repeated. But

I thought parental imput was allowed. For example, they would not have to

test my child again to see if she had a hearing loss because that has been

determined and the school and the parent would agree that she still has a

hearing loss and an audiogram would not be necessary.

>I think that a school district can test your child again, without

permission,

>in an area where they have already tested the child. If it is a test which

>has NOT been done before, then, it requires a signed consent form.

I think you are right about this.

>

>For the triennial, which as far as I know, in NY, anyway, takes place prior

>to Kindergarten and every three yrs after that. It should be the full

>battery of tests, not just one or two, as it is a guide to see how the

child

>is progressing with the current placement and IEP!

I think it makes sense not to spend time or money repeating tests that

everyone agrees are unnecessary. I would want all tests that show where she

is academically and age/ grade wise repeated so I can compare progress. Not

progress with the IEP though. You compare the test results with the last

results and the amount of time that has passed to see if the child is making

real progress or de minimis or no progress.

Barb

October 6, 1999

I sent this early this afternoon, and I don't think it made it to the

list. If it did, and I just didn't see it, my apologies for the

redundancy. -- cj

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