Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 CDC: Chronic fatigue syndrome is real By KIM ARCHER World Staff Writer 11/27/2006 A local medical director says the hardest part of getting help can be finding a physician who believes you. After years of ridicule and dismissal, chronic fatigue syndrome sufferers may feel validated since the U.S. government has declared the disease real. In early November, the national Centers for Disease Control launched an awareness and educational campaign called, " Get Informed. Get Diagnosed. And Get Help. " The campaign is aimed at educating patients and doctors about the reality of chronic fatigue syndrome, or CFS. Eighty percent of an estimated 1 million Americans with the disease do not know they have it, the CDC said. " This is a disease that has been shrouded in a lot of mystery and controversy. And sometimes people question if it's real or not real, " Centers for Disease Control Director Gerberding said earlier this month. " We are committed to improving the awareness that this is a real illness and that people need real medical care and they deserve the best possible help that we can provide. " " It's very frustrating (to treat CFS patients), " said Gray, a medical doctor who once treated CFS patients but quit his Tulsa practice to become medical director of OMNI Medical Group sponsored by St. Health System. He said the CDC's step toward legitimizing the disease is a good one in that it protects patients from " snake oil salesmen " and provides doctors with evidence. He said one of the biggest difficulties in diagnosing and treating the disease is finding a doctor who believes it is a real illness. " Most doctors have a strong bias that it's probably a psychiatric syndrome, " he said. A recent study showed that doctors with loved ones or long-term patients who suddenly fall ill with CFS are more likely to become advocates for sufferers. " When they see this was not a needy person, but an active, accomplished person who became crippled, they probably can reconcile their preconceptions with the facts, " Gray said. The CDC also announced $4 million in research grants for studies. After 20 years of research, the scientific community still does not know what causes the disease or how to treat it. Scientists have revealed the discovery of underlying biological abnormalities, which could suggest a genetic link. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Thank you for this, Kenda. We have a doctor here who won a case in court regarding CFS. I am not sure if I have CFS, but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of you have this condition? Love always........Lea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Re: Re: CFS is real! CDC: Chronic fatigue syndrome is realBy KIM ARCHER World Staff Writer11/27/2006 A local medical director says the hardest part of getting help can befinding a physician who believes you.After years of ridicule and dismissal, chronic fatigue syndrome sufferersmay feel validated since the U.S. government has declared the disease real.In early November, the national Centers for Disease Control launched anawareness and educational campaign called, "Get Informed. Get Diagnosed. AndGet Help." The campaign is aimed at educating patients and doctors about thereality of chronic fatigue syndrome, or CFS.Eighty percent of an estimated 1 million Americans with the disease do notknow they have it, the CDC said."This is a disease that has been shrouded in a lot of mystery andcontroversy. And sometimes people question if it's real or not real,"Centers for Disease Control Director Gerberding said earlier thismonth. "We are committed to improving the awareness that this is a realillness and that people need real medical care and they deserve the bestpossible help that we can provide.""It's very frustrating (to treat CFS patients)," said Gray, a medicaldoctor who once treated CFS patients but quit his Tulsa practice to becomemedical director of OMNI Medical Group sponsoredby St. Health System.He said the CDC's step toward legitimizing the disease is a good one in thatit protects patients from "snake oil salesmen" and provides doctors withevidence. He said one of the biggest difficulties in diagnosing and treating thedisease is finding a doctor who believes it is a real illness."Most doctors have a strong bias that it's probably a psychiatric syndrome,"he said. A recent study showed that doctors with loved ones or long-term patients whosuddenly fall ill with CFS are more likely to become advocates forsufferers. "When they see this was not a needy person, but an active,accomplished person who became crippled, they probably can reconcile theirpreconceptions with the facts," Gray said.The CDC also announced $4 million in research grants for studies.After 20 years of research, the scientific community still does not knowwhat causes the disease or how to treat it. Scientists have revealed thediscovery of underlying biological abnormalities, which could suggest agenetic link. ---------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Brigite, It's good to hear from you again! . . . Please (as Lea says), stay close. We understand what you're going through. . . I hope you're finding a way to get explanted! Hugs and prayers, Rogene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Brigite, I agree I am totally exhausted all the time, nobody seems to get it. When I go to my Dr. I have to tell him so much stuff that I kind of rattle things off like I still have this and that and this oh by the way the fatigue is really bad and he thinks because I talk so fast and all at once when I get to see him it isn't a problem. I tried to tell him that I have so much to tell him and only one shot that I have to get it all out at once but that after I am wiped out. He doesn't get it. Terri P > > > > Thank you for this, Kenda. We have a doctor here who won a case > in court regarding CFS. I am not sure if I have CFS, but for me it is > the pulling down pain in my back rib cage that destroys my life. I > was up at 5AM, and now my day is over because I can no longer sit. It > feels like something is pulling my upper back downward! The pain is > so bad, and we are at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had > this condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I > have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of you have > this condition? > > > > > > I do... I am 31 now, but was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome > at the same time as my fibromyalgia diagnosis -around age 24. Just > like the prior post implied... people see you go from being a > healthy, active person to being cripled. The fatigue is so great, it > not only affects your physical capabilities, but you can't even TALK > enough to maintain a social life. I can't even talk on the phone with > my friends or family. I can become exhausted carrying on a > conversation for more than 10 minutes. If I converse 30-60 minutes - > I'm ready for bed. When you get tired, your throat gets sore and your > eyes swell up. (I'm pretty sure that's in keeping with the CFS > symptoms---but I know they are for sure my symptoms I notice.) I was > recently diagnosed with malnurishment due to malabsorption in my > stomach, and this on top of the CFS has caused me to keep a sore > throat for months. It feels like strep, but isn't---it's from pure > exhaustion. > > It's hard for people to understand. I have friends and family who > think " OK, I understand you don't feel like going out and doing > anything because you don't feel well ---so I'll just come visit > you... or we can just go have dinner. " They can't comprehend that > even TALKING to them creates exhaustion. > > Life becomes a constant struggle for energy. > > I haven't posted for a while, but my other diagnosis are: > Fibromyalgia, Pseudotumor Cerebri, Cluster Headaches, Migraines, > Hashimoto's Disease, Hypothyroidism, PID, Polycystic Ovaries, and my > labs go back and forth for Lupus and Sjogren's Syndrome. (Currenly, > my ANA is negative. It goes back and forth about every year or two.) > > My rib cage stays swollen and inflamed with knots, by the way. (I saw > this mentioned.) > > God bless you all... sorry I haven't kept up or posted in a while, > but I've been miserable the past few months. You're all ALWAYS in my > prayers though!!!! > > Brigite > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Posted by: " Lea " devans@... <mailto:devans@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20CFS%20is%20real%21> Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:50 am (PST) > >snip< but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib > cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is > over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is > pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are > at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this > condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I > have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of > you have this condition? /Yes, Lea, in addition to Central Nervous System and Peripheral Nerve damage due to anti-myelinization from antibodies caused by silicone auto-immune disorder, I have damage to connective tissue through-out my body, especially in my chest, from that same disease process, and this chronic pain is the most difficult symptom I have to live with--so far. ~~ / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Dearest Brigite: I am so sorry that you have CFS. I used to be just like you. Talking on the telephone was the most difficult task, and had to take my calls. After so many years, I still do not have the strength to talk for very long. When I finish a call, my face is bright red and I feel stressed. Another thing that seems to take my energy is talking to someone in our home. Having guests in our home is lovely, but it always leaves me drained. 's boss and his wife are coming on December 9, and I am getting stressed over this. We love them, and they are special friends, but it still kills me. Honey, what kind of breast implants do you have? We all hope that you will find the strength to have them removed, because you are so young. This is heartbreaking for me to hear that you are suffering so much. The pain in my chest wall could be costochondritis, which is inflammation. I cannot take anti-inflammatory drugs because I am on Coumidan. The only way that I get any relief is by going to bed and resting on a heating pad. The other day, I did all the walks, and that is what made this condition worse. We have so much snow this year, and I love shovelling the walks. Please let us know when you decide to have your implants removed, we will all be here for you. This is a difficult decision to make, but just know that we are here for you...love always.....Lea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```` Re: CFS is real! >> Thank you for this, Kenda. We have a doctor here who won a case in court regarding CFS. I am not sure if I have CFS, but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of you have this condition?> > I do... I am 31 now, but was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome at the same time as my fibromyalgia diagnosis -around age 24. Just like the prior post implied... people see you go from being a healthy, active person to being cripled. The fatigue is so great, it not only affects your physical capabilities, but you can't even TALK enough to maintain a social life. I can't even talk on the phone with my friends or family. I can become exhausted carrying on a conversation for more than 10 minutes. If I converse 30-60 minutes -I'm ready for bed. When you get tired, your throat gets sore and your eyes swell up. (I'm pretty sure that's in keeping with the CFS symptoms---but I know they are for sure my symptoms I notice.) I was recently diagnosed with malnurishment due to malabsorption in my stomach, and this on top of the CFS has caused me to keep a sore throat for months. It feels like strep, but isn't---it's from pure exhaustion.It's hard for people to understand. I have friends and family who think "OK, I understand you don't feel like going out and doing anything because you don't feel well ---so I'll just come visit you... or we can just go have dinner." They can't comprehend that even TALKING to them creates exhaustion.Life becomes a constant struggle for energy.I haven't posted for a while, but my other diagnosis are: Fibromyalgia, Pseudotumor Cerebri, Cluster Headaches, Migraines, Hashimoto's Disease, Hypothyroidism, PID, Polycystic Ovaries, and my labs go back and forth for Lupus and Sjogren's Syndrome. (Currenly, my ANA is negative. It goes back and forth about every year or two.) My rib cage stays swollen and inflamed with knots, by the way. (I saw this mentioned.) God bless you all... sorry I haven't kept up or posted in a while, but I've been miserable the past few months. You're all ALWAYS in my prayers though!!!!Brigite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Oh , I know that this pain is so hard for us to cope with, but we have no choice. My doctors always tell me to treat each flare like a storm, in that it will eventually go away. This morning the pain is gone, but it comes back if I sit or stand for long periods. When we go shopping, I always use a cart; however, I will never use a walker. I do have osteoporosis, and my rheumatologist is worried about my bones. He has just done a bone scan, and I hope that he will call me today. When he calls, I will mention the rib cage pain, but I know that it must be inflammation from doing the walks. We all want to have our lives back. Have you been tested for MGUS, and did you have silicone or saline? It is lovely having a nurse back in the group again. We had Nurse Boone for many years, but she left the group some time ago. Thank you for all that you are doing for the group...love always.......Lea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```````` Re: CFS is real! Posted by: "Lea " devanscompusmart (DOT) ab.ca<mailto:devanscompusmart (DOT) ab.ca?Subject=%20Re%3A%20CFS%20is%20real%21>Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:50 am (PST)> >snip< but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib> cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is> over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is> pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are> at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this> condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I> have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of> you have this condition?/Yes, Lea, in addition to Central Nervous System and PeripheralNerve damage due to anti-myelinization from antibodies caused bysilicone auto-immune disorder, I have damage to connectivetissue through-out my body, especially in my chest, from thatsame disease process, and this chronic pain is the mostdifficult symptom I have to live with--so far. ~~/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Lea, You might benefit from an infrared heating pad - - looks like the standard one, but tiny infared lights in the pad help decrease inflammation and promote healing . . e-bay might have some - or you can buy them online. My daughter uses them extensively with her patients. You just wrap the pad around a painful area or lay on it. RogeneLea <devans@...> wrote: Dearest Brigite: I am so sorry that you have CFS. I used to be just like you. Talking on the telephone was the most difficult task, and had to take my calls. After so many years, I still do not have the strength to talk for very long. When I finish a call, my face is bright red and I feel stressed. Another thing that seems to take my energy is talking to someone in our home. Having guests in our home is lovely, but it always leaves me drained. 's boss and his wife are coming on December 9, and I am getting stressed over this. We love them, and they are special friends, but it still kills me. Honey, what kind of breast implants do you have? We all hope that you will find the strength to have them removed, because you are so young. This is heartbreaking for me to hear that you are suffering so much. The pain in my chest wall could be costochondritis, which is inflammation. I cannot take anti-inflammatory drugs because I am on Coumidan. The only way that I get any relief is by going to bed and resting on a heating pad. The other day, I did all the walks, and that is what made this condition worse. We have so much snow this year, and I love shovelling the walks. Please let us know when you decide to have your implants removed, we will all be here for you. This is a difficult decision to make, but just know that we are here for you...love always.....Lea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```` Re: CFS is real! >> Thank you for this, Kenda. We have a doctor here who won a case in court regarding CFS. I am not sure if I have CFS, but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of you have this condition?> > I do... I am 31 now, but was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome at the same time as my fibromyalgia diagnosis -around age 24. Just like the prior post implied... people see you go from being a healthy, active person to being cripled. The fatigue is so great, it not only affects your physical capabilities, but you can't even TALK enough to maintain a social life. I can't even talk on the phone with my friends or family. I can become exhausted carrying on a conversation for more than 10 minutes. If I converse 30-60 minutes -I'm ready for bed. When you get tired, your throat gets sore and your eyes swell up. (I'm pretty sure that's in keeping with the CFS symptoms---but I know they are for sure my symptoms I notice.) I was recently diagnosed with malnurishment due to malabsorption in my stomach, and this on top of the CFS has caused me to keep a sore throat for months. It feels like strep, but isn't---it's from pure exhaustion.It's hard for people to understand. I have friends and family who think "OK, I understand you don't feel like going out and doing anything because you don't feel well ---so I'll just come visit you... or we can just go have dinner." They can't comprehend that even TALKING to them creates exhaustion.Life becomes a constant struggle for energy.I haven't posted for a while, but my other diagnosis are: Fibromyalgia, Pseudotumor Cerebri, Cluster Headaches, Migraines, Hashimoto's Disease, Hypothyroidism, PID, Polycystic Ovaries, and my labs go back and forth for Lupus and Sjogren's Syndrome. (Currenly, my ANA is negative. It goes back and forth about every year or two.) My rib cage stays swollen and inflamed with knots, by the way. (I saw this mentioned.) God bless you all... sorry I haven't kept up or posted in a while, but I've been miserable the past few months. You're all ALWAYS in my prayers though!!!!Brigite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Thank you dear Rogene: We were looking for a new heating pad, and because of your advice, we will look for this type. has to go our later today and he will look for the infrared. I hope that we can find it in one of the stores. Honey, so happy that you have the cast off...stay well, love always.....Lea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Re: CFS is real! >> Thank you for this, Kenda. We have a doctor here who won a case in court regarding CFS. I am not sure if I have CFS, but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of you have this condition?> > I do... I am 31 now, but was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome at the same time as my fibromyalgia diagnosis -around age 24. Just like the prior post implied... people see you go from being a healthy, active person to being cripled. The fatigue is so great, it not only affects your physical capabilities, but you can't even TALK enough to maintain a social life. I can't even talk on the phone with my friends or family. I can become exhausted carrying on a conversation for more than 10 minutes. If I converse 30-60 minutes -I'm ready for bed. When you get tired, your throat gets sore and your eyes swell up. (I'm pretty sure that's in keeping with the CFS symptoms---but I know they are for sure my symptoms I notice.) I was recently diagnosed with malnurishment due to malabsorption in my stomach, and this on top of the CFS has caused me to keep a sore throat for months. It feels like strep, but isn't---it's from pure exhaustion.It's hard for people to understand. I have friends and family who think "OK, I understand you don't feel like going out and doing anything because you don't feel well ---so I'll just come visit you... or we can just go have dinner." They can't comprehend that even TALKING to them creates exhaustion.Life becomes a constant struggle for energy.I haven't posted for a while, but my other diagnosis are: Fibromyalgia, Pseudotumor Cerebri, Cluster Headaches, Migraines, Hashimoto's Disease, Hypothyroidism, PID, Polycystic Ovaries, and my labs go back and forth for Lupus and Sjogren's Syndrome. (Currenly, my ANA is negative. It goes back and forth about every year or two.) My rib cage stays swollen and inflamed with knots, by the way. (I saw this mentioned.) God bless you all... sorry I haven't kept up or posted in a while, but I've been miserable the past few months. You're all ALWAYS in my prayers though!!!!Brigite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Wow , I can't believe all that you are enduring. When was your explant? Have you seen improvements in any areas of your healing? we're so glad you are here > > Oh , I know that this pain is so hard for us to cope with, but we have no choice. My doctors always tell me to treat each flare like a storm, in that it will eventually go away. This morning the pain is gone, but it comes back if I sit or stand for long periods. When we go shopping, I always use a cart; however, I will never use a walker. I do have osteoporosis, and my rheumatologist is worried about my bones. He has just done a bone scan, and I hope that he will call me today. When he calls, I will mention the rib cage pain, but I know that it must be inflammation from doing the walks. We all want to have our lives back. > > Have you been tested for MGUS, and did you have silicone or saline? > > It is lovely having a nurse back in the group again. We had Nurse Boone for many years, but she left the group some time ago. > > Thank you for all that you are doing for the group...love always.......Lea > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```````` > Re: CFS is real! > > > > Posted by: " Lea " devans@... > <mailto:devans@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20CFS%20is%20real%21> > > Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:50 am (PST) > > > >snip< but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib > > cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is > > over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is > > pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are > > at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this > > condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I > > have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of > > you have this condition? > > /Yes, Lea, in addition to Central Nervous System and Peripheral > Nerve damage due to anti-myelinization from antibodies caused by > silicone auto-immune disorder, I have damage to connective > tissue through-out my body, especially in my chest, from that > same disease process, and this chronic pain is the most > difficult symptom I have to live with--so far. ~~ > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Because infrared pads are considered for therapy, rather than comfort, you may have to go online , , , But it wouldn't hurt to look. I'd call around first though. Price-wise, they can't compete with regular heating pads - so unless someone understood their balue, they wouldn't be likely to purchanse one.Lea <devans@...> wrote: Thank you dear Rogene: We were looking for a new heating pad, and because of your advice, we will look for this type. has to go our later today and he will look for the infrared. I hope that we can find it in one of the stores. Honey, so happy that you have the cast off...stay well, love always.....Lea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Re: CFS is real! >> Thank you for this, Kenda. We have a doctor here who won a case in court regarding CFS. I am not sure if I have CFS, but for me it is the pulling down pain in my back rib cage that destroys my life. I was up at 5AM, and now my day is over because I can no longer sit. It feels like something is pulling my upper back downward! The pain is so bad, and we are at a loss as to what is causing this...I have had this condition for so many years. The doctors have told me that I have chest wall damage from the ruptured implants. Do any of you have this condition?> > I do... I am 31 now, but was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome at the same time as my fibromyalgia diagnosis -around age 24. Just like the prior post implied... people see you go from being a healthy, active person to being cripled. The fatigue is so great, it not only affects your physical capabilities, but you can't even TALK enough to maintain a social life. I can't even talk on the phone with my friends or family. I can become exhausted carrying on a conversation for more than 10 minutes. If I converse 30-60 minutes -I'm ready for bed. When you get tired, your throat gets sore and your eyes swell up. (I'm pretty sure that's in keeping with the CFS symptoms---but I know they are for sure my symptoms I notice.) I was recently diagnosed with malnurishment due to malabsorption in my stomach, and this on top of the CFS has caused me to keep a sore throat for months. It feels like strep, but isn't---it's from pure exhaustion.It's hard for people to understand. I have friends and family who think "OK, I understand you don't feel like going out and doing anything because you don't feel well ---so I'll just come visit you... or we can just go have dinner." They can't comprehend that even TALKING to them creates exhaustion.Life becomes a constant struggle for energy.I haven't posted for a while, but my other diagnosis are: Fibromyalgia, Pseudotumor Cerebri, Cluster Headaches, Migraines, Hashimoto's Disease, Hypothyroidism, PID, Polycystic Ovaries, and my labs go back and forth for Lupus and Sjogren's Syndrome. (Currenly, my ANA is negative. It goes back and forth about every year or two.) My rib cage stays swollen and inflamed with knots, by the way. (I saw this mentioned.) God bless you all... sorry I haven't kept up or posted in a while, but I've been miserable the past few months. You're all ALWAYS in my prayers though!!!!Brigite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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