Troubles with friendships

[Guest guest]

I am struggling for the moment with friendships. I feel like their feelings

about me can change instantly. What if I say too much? What if I act too

needy? I struggle with this so much and trust no one. Very few people have

made it into my " inner circle " and I feel love me unconditionally. (four?)

Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you cope?

I always feel lie I am 'better off' and 'safer' when I am alone. I rarely

get lonely. I always have something to read or a project to work on or

building my business.... but I know that when I can spend time with people

and NOT be scared I am happier than when I am alone, but when I AM scared,

it feels so awful.

Maybe it is just all of this time stuck at work, alone in a room, covering

for people who celebrate Christmas (11-11 wednesday, yesterday and today!)

Shari

[Guest guest]

I felt (feel?) like this ... it gets better as I get older... turned

40 this year...

I have several close friends who I can say ANYTHING too... took years

to get to that level but I have found that the more I admit my

insecurities, the kinder people are. I've always had to be the 'one

in charge' with making sure the boat didn't sink as a child... and

SHOW NO EMOTION WHILE FENDING OFF THE SHARKS... that I haven't always

been real good in the 'admitting I have a feeling about ANYTHING'

area. With a good therapist, alas, I've learned I'm supposed to have

feelings and it's OK to share them. Who knew?

Once I put that out there and just let myself be vulnerable in my

emotions, gosh... the people I was shielding from " my yucky self "

suddenly grew closer and all of my relationships became enriched.

Tell your friends your feeling vulnerable and WHY... you'll be better

off for it... not too long ago I (while feeling my WORST) threw a

party ... let them know I was feeling insecure, sad, depressed and

overwhelmed and I trusted and needed them... EVERY SINGLE PERSON

CAME... that said, I wouldn't advise doing this on a regular basis

for fear of overwhelming them... but it was a big thing for me to

admit that level of need - and they loved me inspite of myself.

Hugs. You can make the sunshine glow... just ask for it.

Lynnette

>

> I am struggling for the moment with friendships. I feel like their

feelings

> about me can change instantly. What if I say too much? What if I

act too

> needy? I struggle with this so much and trust no one. Very few

people have

> made it into my " inner circle " and I feel love me unconditionally.

(four?)

> Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you cope?

> I always feel lie I am 'better off' and 'safer' when I am alone. I

rarely

> get lonely. I always have something to read or a project to work

on or

> building my business.... but I know that when I can spend time with

people

> and NOT be scared I am happier than when I am alone, but when I AM

scared,

> it feels so awful.

>

> Maybe it is just all of this time stuck at work, alone in a room,

covering

> for people who celebrate Christmas (11-11 wednesday, yesterday and

today!)

>

>

>

> Shari

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Shari,

I can understand your feeling anxious about trusting people, I think

that is a by-product of being raised by a bpd. Its hard for me to

trust people also.

Part of what works for me is that I don't expect a friend to " love me

unconditionally. " I don't think that's a realistic expectation. For

example, I guess my Sister is the person on earth I love the most, but

if I witnessed my beloved Sister suddenly, say, turning into a

mass-murderer, I would not love her unconditionally. And vice-versa;

if I were to steal from my Sister, or tried to push her off a bridge

or spread lies about her behind her back, or something equally heinous

or abusive, I would not expect her to love *me* unconditionally.

I think the concept of " unconditional love " is something that is only

experienced between a mother and her infant. Note: I didn't say

" child " or " adult child " , but infant. Those of us who didn't get to

go through the phase of " unconditional love " with our mothers seem to

crave it from other people, but as adults, I don't think its possible

to give or receive that unique kind of love.

But that's just my opinion.

My strategy is to get to know people gradually. I wait for a

relationship to develop at its own pace. I consciously prevent myself

from latching onto a friend the way a drowning person would latch onto

a fragment of floating wood; I minimize my expectations about what a

friend's role is in my life. Its good to have friends, but I don't

expect a friend to be a savior, a rescuer, or a mother.

-Annie

>

> I am struggling for the moment with friendships. I feel like their

feelings

> about me can change instantly. What if I say too much? What if I

act too

> needy? I struggle with this so much and trust no one. Very few

people have

> made it into my " inner circle " and I feel love me unconditionally.

(four?)

> Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you cope?

> I always feel lie I am 'better off' and 'safer' when I am alone. I

rarely

> get lonely. I always have something to read or a project to work on or

> building my business.... but I know that when I can spend time with

people

> and NOT be scared I am happier than when I am alone, but when I AM

scared,

> it feels so awful.

>

> Maybe it is just all of this time stuck at work, alone in a room,

covering

> for people who celebrate Christmas (11-11 wednesday, yesterday and

today!)

>

>

>

> Shari

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am trying that, but I think I might've chosen the wrong person? Although

she says she is there for me, it seems that any negative conversations seem

to be short and ended by her.

I am not sure how to work it out. On one hand I like her, on the other I am

not sure. She SAYS she is there, but she can be relatively selfish at

times. I think that I've given up on the friendship and then she surprises

me by coaching me to stand up to my Dad and tell him he can't visit (dad is

my bpd parent). I helped her through her miscarriage and then celebrated

her pregnancy a month later (she's 5 months along!). I feel like we are

close but then I don't. We want VERY different things from life (for her,

husband, kids, for me, bf, travel and a successful business) but that seems

to be ok. I wondered if the reason the friendship didn't progress was me

and my inability to trust. Now I'm not so sure.

The whole thing is.... weird. I'm also jealous of her ability to be

selfish.... I wish I could not have to be in charge and throw birthday

parties for myself and make my boyfriend cater more to my needs.

Yikes. It is a combo of so many things.

I'm 33, by the way...

Shari

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 4:22 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

> I felt (feel?) like this ... it gets better as I get older... turned

> 40 this year...

>

> I have several close friends who I can say ANYTHING too... took years

> to get to that level but I have found that the more I admit my

> insecurities, the kinder people are. I've always had to be the 'one

> in charge' with making sure the boat didn't sink as a child... and

> SHOW NO EMOTION WHILE FENDING OFF THE SHARKS... that I haven't always

> been real good in the 'admitting I have a feeling about ANYTHING'

> area. With a good therapist, alas, I've learned I'm supposed to have

> feelings and it's OK to share them. Who knew?

>

> Once I put that out there and just let myself be vulnerable in my

> emotions, gosh... the people I was shielding from " my yucky self "

> suddenly grew closer and all of my relationships became enriched.

>

> Tell your friends your feeling vulnerable and WHY... you'll be better

> off for it... not too long ago I (while feeling my WORST) threw a

> party ... let them know I was feeling insecure, sad, depressed and

> overwhelmed and I trusted and needed them... EVERY SINGLE PERSON

> CAME... that said, I wouldn't advise doing this on a regular basis

> for fear of overwhelming them... but it was a big thing for me to

> admit that level of need - and they loved me inspite of myself.

>

> Hugs. You can make the sunshine glow... just ask for it.

>

> Lynnette

>

>

> >

> > I am struggling for the moment with friendships. I feel like their

> feelings

> > about me can change instantly. What if I say too much? What if I

> act too

> > needy? I struggle with this so much and trust no one. Very few

> people have

> > made it into my " inner circle " and I feel love me unconditionally.

> (four?)

> > Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you cope?

> > I always feel lie I am 'better off' and 'safer' when I am alone. I

> rarely

> > get lonely. I always have something to read or a project to work

> on or

> > building my business.... but I know that when I can spend time with

> people

> > and NOT be scared I am happier than when I am alone, but when I AM

> scared,

> > it feels so awful.

> >

> > Maybe it is just all of this time stuck at work, alone in a room,

> covering

> > for people who celebrate Christmas (11-11 wednesday, yesterday and

> today!)

> >

> >

> >

> > Shari

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

There is a fine line between a friend and a therapist... sounds like

your friend wants to be the later and gets upset when you don't

follow her " professional advice. " I would advise against asking for

her advice in 'this area' for awhile. See how the waters chill, flow

and develop from there.

We all want our friends (as was mentioned below) to love

us " unconditionally " but I think that's unrealistic. We hold the

responsibility of our own behaviors in our own hands... the only way

to find out of the balance is out of whack is to keep ourselves in

check for a " pre-set but not shared " period of time and see what

evolves.

I'd love to think that SO would love me if I became an ass... alas, I

love him too much to put him to that test. Therefore, we both

benefit from grace and discression...

My friends et al, have been in my life for 8+ years... it's been a

long road and period of time... ups and downs on all sides... but, as

I get older and gain more perspective, I'm learning to admit that I

can have an emotion/reaction to things... provided I do it with

dignity and kindess and gentleness... and I respect people enough to

1) trust them to love me and 2) trust them to love them back.

Lynnette

> > >

> > > I am struggling for the moment with friendships. I feel like

their

> > feelings

> > > about me can change instantly. What if I say too much? What if I

> > act too

> > > needy? I struggle with this so much and trust no one. Very few

> > people have

> > > made it into my " inner circle " and I feel love me

unconditionally.

> > (four?)

> > > Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you cope?

> > > I always feel lie I am 'better off' and 'safer' when I am

alone. I

> > rarely

> > > get lonely. I always have something to read or a project to work

> > on or

> > > building my business.... but I know that when I can spend time

with

> > people

> > > and NOT be scared I am happier than when I am alone, but when I

AM

> > scared,

> > > it feels so awful.

> > >

> > > Maybe it is just all of this time stuck at work, alone in a

room,

> > covering

> > > for people who celebrate Christmas (11-11 wednesday, yesterday

and

> > today!)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Shari

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I have to agree a lot with Annie. Although its taken me years and

still does, not expecting unconditional love is a big one, even from a

spouse/bf etc.

I've always tended to have a few good friends (excuse the pun!), but

even then my good friends weren't necessarily in the same boat as each

other.

E.g.

Friend no.1 was often single in and out of relationships, depression,

suicidal etc (now in a steady relationship and doing well with her

depression).

Friend no.2 has kids (like me) and has always - since I've know her -

been in a steady relationship.

With friend no.1 I can talk about everything with her, shes very

understanding and and has been through the mill in her life and gives

sound advice, but also to a point she can't completely understand me

bc she doesn't have kids etc etc..

And with friend no.2 not so much. we can talk about the pressures of

being mothers, partners etc but not too much deep stuff she gets

silent on the other end of the phone which makes me uncomfortable etc.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that having one friend for every

need is not necessary. Having a couple of good friends to share

different things in your life with - I feel in my opinion and

experience - is the most enrinching thing to have in life. I get sad

sometimes that I don't have one friend to share EVERYTHING with, but

as I've grown emotionally etc I've found my husband to be that friend

(even though I still shield a lot from him for his sake and for our

relationships!!)

I do believe that the one person that needs unconditional love is

yourself and only you can do that, no-one else. Unfortuantely us KOs

can't get that anymore from our nada or BPDparent....we have to learn

it from ourselves and it take time.

And more importantly, I think we have to figure out what exactly the

unconditional love is that we require. Is it to constantly have

someone agree with us, help us, not argue with us, not point out the

bad in us. Or a mixture of all to help us on our journey?

My thoughts are with you

Ange

x

[Guest guest]

I have found that having very low expectations for people is typically what

keeps me shielded.  I have a few 'close' friends, maybe 3, that I could call on

in a time of need, but even then it would have to be pretty dire.  I tend to be

a hermit and keep people at a distance.  I went through my life very outgoing,

sharing everything and being a great friend up until I had kids.  Then I

realized I had myself available to everyone else for all those years and was

typically, perpetually hurt by disappointment.  Somehow those friendships I

poured myself into never really balanced out.  Well, most of them.  There were

those few - like I said, 3 or so, that gave back what I put in - and those I

kept.  Everyone else I cut contact with.

 

I don't feel guilty not making small talk.  It's not worth my time or effort.  I

find no reason to blabber on about the weather or your kids when you don't give

a damn about me.  I'm not very political or tactful that way most of the time. 

It's something my husband dreads.

 

About unconditional love; it does exist.  My husband and I share it - but we

both come from extremely adverse childhoods.  He had a homeless, alcoholic, drug

abusing mother that was violent until he was 8.  His family never took him out

of harms way.  He survived on pure grit and learned to appreciate really simple

things like warm food, warm bed, one house, not shelters.  I was violated and I

have learned to appreciate a bathtub that's mine, privacy, the sunshine, the

smiles of my children.  It really is all about the simple things.  When you have

everything ripped away from you from a young age - and you endure, the spectrum

of love opens wide, as does the spectrum of hate or bitterness. 

 

So, without a bigger essay - unconditional love is very possible, imo.  But

sometimes I wonder if it's bc of all the adversity we suffered that we're

capable of it.  I know that sounds terrible ... but *shrug* the people I've met

over the years who were rather unscathed in life don't seem to recognize how

vulnerable life is.  They just never had the need to really open their eyes -

their perspective is almost alien to mine.  It reoccurs ... but there have

always been exceptional people that also understood without the pain - so I

don't know.

 

*sigh*  It's life.  Who knows.