Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Good Post. ---------- From: Doug [sMTP:erdoc2@...] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 1:58 AM To: egroups Subject: Degree or No Degree <html><font size=3><pre>Greetings, It seems to me that we have cussed and discussed this topic before when the LP certification first came out. It was also talked about when there was talk that Texas would allow someone with x number of yrs experience to apply for and become an LP. This was the bill that I was supporting, as there are good & #34;compedent & #34; medics out there that do not have a degree. There are also medics out there that are just as & #34;incompedent & #34; and hold a degree. As we all know there is always two sides to every issue that is talked about on here. And each person has the right to feel strongly about this subject or any other subject that is talked about on here. Let me point something out to all of you LPs. You may feel that in some ways you are better than a certified medic because you have, AS, AAS, BS, BBA, MS, etc behind your name, but the degree does not make the medic, the training does. Not your college degree training, but the training that you received from your paramedic school, which was probably taught by a certified medic and not a LP. Granted you may have more book knowledge as far as college courses, but tell me how someone with a degree in Accounting or Business Administration or as it has been put & #34;Underwater Basket Weaving & #34; going to help you provide better patient care? Are you going to do the persons taxes or give investment advice on the way to the hospital, no. I know that most of you are saying how stupid this sounds coming from a physician. Let me point out I have a lot more education than any of the LPs have. Besides I'm sure that you have all heard the joke about what they call the person that graduated last in medical school...doctor. And no that was not me. The more all of you fight over who is better, makes both the certified medic and especially the LP look like second grade children fighting over who is better. LPs think they are better because they have a degree. But did you think that you were better before or after Texas started the LP certification? Let me remind all of you that are LP, what patch did you wear before the LP patch came out? YOu wore the same patch that all of the other medics across Texas wore. Just because you are an LP, don't let it go to your head, because YOU ALL were once just a certified medic. LPs should not look down on the certified medics, because as I have said, you all have been there. There have was a post on here from an LP that stated they did not wear their LP patch because they did not want other medics to think that they were any better than them. Everyone should have this same attitude. I'm hoping that someone will again this yr or next start the push for the same bill that was not passed last yr to allow medics with x amount of experience to apply for LP status. Let me also point out something that was in a post, that is incorrect and if were an LP you should know better, because you have a degree, but in order for a person to be certified in the State of Texas, you have to have a HS Diploma or a GED. You can not be a high school drop out and be a medic. Granted there may be some that drop out and get a GED, but atleast they completed their high school education, so I would not classify them as a high school drop out. Also to answer your question, I would delegate more to a certified medic with 5 yrs experience before I would to a rookie LP. With equal experience as you put it, they would BOTH have the same abilities. Because one is an LP and the other is not, does not mean that the LP is going to get to do more. Just remember, without a MD (Medical Director) you don't practice. There are a couple of other things that I do want to talk about in othet post like the commit made about BEMS and private medics, but will do that in another post. Just remember, because you are an LP does not make you any better then your certified counterpart. Unless you are the person from BEMS that thinks he is better than everyone else because he is an LP. You all have to work as a team. As it was pointed out before, you are all EMTs first and Paramedics second. You have to do the basics before you can do the advanced. Take care, Doug , DO, NREMT-P _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit <a href= " http://freeworld.excite.com " target= " _top " >http://freeworld.excite.com</a> </pre></font> <hr><center> <!--begin banner--><form target= " _blank " method=get action= " http://click./1/1687/3/_/4981/_/952077782/ " > <!-- HIDDEN FIELDS BEGIN --><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME= " _adid " VALUE= " bmi_calculator1 " ><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME= " _conid " VALUE= " egroups " ><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME= " _java " VALUE= " T " ><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME= " _data " VALUE= " Y " ><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME= " _transnum " VALUE= " 1 " ><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME= " _page " VALUE= " http://onhealth.com/ch1/redir/adredir.asp " ><!-- HIDDEN FIELDS END --> <input type= " hidden " name= " quiz " value= " bmi " > <table BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 WIDTH= " 468 " HEIGHT= " 60 " BGCOLOR= " #993333 " > <tr> <td rowspan=2 WIDTH= " 252 " HEIGHT= " 60 " ><a target= " _blank " href= " http://click./1/1687/3/_/4981/_/952077782/?_adid=bmi_calculator\ 1 & _conid=egroups & _java=T & _page=http://onhealth.com/ch1/redir/adredir.asp?quiz=bm\ i " ><img src= " http://adimg./img/1687/3/_/4981/_/952077782/01.gif " alt= " [ o n h e a l t h ] " border= " 0 " ></a></td> <td align= " left " valign= " middle " HEIGHT= " 30 " ><font color= " #FFFFFF " size= " 2 " >Enter Ht: </font><input type= " text " name= " txtFeet " size= " 3 " ><font color= " #FFFFFF " size= " 2 " > ft.</font></td> <td align= " left " valign= " middle " HEIGHT= " 30 " ><input type= " text " name= " txtInches " size= " 3 " ><font color= " #FFFFFF " size= " 2 " > in.</font></td> </tr> <tr> <td align= " left " valign= " middle " HEIGHT= " 30 " ><font Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Dr. , I'd like to make one comment about your post. There is currently no requirement that a certificant be a HS graduate OR have passed the GED test. In fact, there is nothing to stop someone who has never set foot in any school from being certified. Almost all of us were suprised when we first found this out because we all assumed the requirement was there. When we actually looked at the rules, we couldn't find it. Having said that, there are proposed rules which will require HS or GED completion. That may be what you were thinking of. In any case, those rules haven't passed yet. Take care, Jeff Degree or No Degree Greetings, It seems to me that we have cussed and discussed this topic before when the LP certification first came out. It was also talked about when there was talk that Texas would allow someone with x number of yrs experience to apply for and become an LP. This was the bill that I was supporting, as there are good " compedent " medics out there that do not have a degree. There are also medics out there that are just as " incompedent " and hold a degree. As we all know there is always two sides to every issue that is talked about on here. And each person has the right to feel strongly about this subject or any other subject that is talked about on here. Let me point something out to all of you LPs. You may feel that in some ways you are better than a certified medic because you have, AS, AAS, BS, BBA, MS, etc behind your name, but the degree does not make the medic, the training does. Not your college degree training, but the training that you received from your paramedic school, which was probably taught by a certified medic and not a LP. Granted you may have more book knowledge as far as college courses, but tell me how someone with a degree in Accounting or Business Administration or as it has been put " Underwater Basket Weaving " going to help you provide better patient care? Are you going to do the persons taxes or give investment advice on the way to the hospital, no. I know that most of you are saying how stupid this sounds coming from a physician. Let me point out I have a lot more education than any of the LPs have. Besides I'm sure that you have all heard the joke about what they call the person that graduated last in medical school...doctor. And no that was not me. The more all of you fight over who is better, makes both the certified medic and especially the LP look like second grade children fighting over who is better. LPs think they are better because they have a degree. But did you think that you were better before or after Texas started the LP certification? Let me remind all of you that are LP, what patch did you wear before the LP patch came out? YOu wore the same patch that all of the other medics across Texas wore. Just because you are an LP, don't let it go to your head, because YOU ALL were once just a certified medic. LPs should not look down on the certified medics, because as I have said, you all have been there. There have was a post on here from an LP that stated they did not wear their LP patch because they did not want other medics to think that they were any better than them. Everyone should have this same attitude. I'm hoping that someone will again this yr or next start the push for the same bill that was not passed last yr to allow medics with x amount of experience to apply for LP status. Let me also point out something that was in a post, that is incorrect and if were an LP you should know better, because you have a degree, but in order for a person to be certified in the State of Texas, you have to have a HS Diploma or a GED. You can not be a high school drop out and be a medic. Granted there may be some that drop out and get a GED, but atleast they completed their high school education, so I would not classify them as a high school drop out. Also to answer your question, I would delegate more to a certified medic with 5 yrs experience before I would to a rookie LP. With equal experience as you put it, they would BOTH have the same abilities. Because one is an LP and the other is not, does not mean that the LP is going to get to do more. Just remember, without a MD (Medical Director) you don't practice. There are a couple of other things that I do want to talk about in othet post like the commit made about BEMS and private medics, but will do that in another post. Just remember, because you are an LP does not make you any better then your certified counterpart. Unless you are the person from BEMS that thinks he is better than everyone else because he is an LP. You all have to work as a team. As it was pointed out before, you are all EMTs first and Paramedics second. You have to do the basics before you can do the advanced. Take care, Doug , DO, NREMT-P _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Successful or aspiring career women won't want to miss Women.Future! Today's top business women share how they led their way to the top. Find out how at http://click./1/1876/3/_/4981/_/952077783/ -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! -- /cal?listname= & m=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Just a reminder that when talking about competence and education it is good to spell the word right. And just for the record, education and experience are not interchangable. They each have their own worth. Degree or No Degree >Greetings, > >It seems to me that we have cussed and discussed this topic before when the >LP certification first came out. It was also talked about when there was >talk that Texas would allow someone with x number of yrs experience to apply >for and become an LP. This was the bill that I was supporting, as there are >good " compedent " medics out there that do not have a degree. There are also >medics out there that are just as " incompedent " and hold a degree. As we >all know there is always two sides to every issue that is talked about on >here. And each person has the right to feel strongly about this subject or >any other subject that is talked about on here. > >Let me point something out to all of you LPs. You may feel that in some >ways you are better than a certified medic because you have, AS, AAS, BS, >BBA, MS, etc behind your name, but the degree does not make the medic, the >training does. Not your college degree training, but the training that you >received from your paramedic school, which was probably taught by a >certified medic and not a LP. Granted you may have more book knowledge as >far as college courses, but tell me how someone with a degree in Accounting >or Business Administration or as it has been put " Underwater Basket Weaving " >going to help you provide better patient care? Are you going to do the >persons taxes or give investment advice on the way to the hospital, no. I >know that most of you are saying how stupid this sounds coming from a >physician. Let me point out I have a lot more education than any of the LPs >have. Besides I'm sure that you have all heard the joke about what they call >the person that graduated last in medical school...doctor. And no that was >not me. > >The more all of you fight over who is better, makes both the certified medic >and especially the LP look like second grade children fighting over who is >better. LPs think they are better because they have a degree. But did you >think that you were better before or after Texas started the LP >certification? Let me remind all of you that are LP, what patch did you >wear before the LP patch came out? YOu wore the same patch that all of the >other medics across Texas wore. Just because you are an LP, don't let it go >to your head, because YOU ALL were once just a certified medic. > >LPs should not look down on the certified medics, because as I have said, >you all have been there. There have was a post on here from an LP that >stated they did not wear their LP patch because they did not want other >medics to think that they were any better than them. Everyone should have >this same attitude. > >I'm hoping that someone will again this yr or next start the push for the >same bill that was not passed last yr to allow medics with x amount of >experience to apply for LP status. > >Let me also point out something that was in a post, that is incorrect and if >were an LP you should know better, because you have a degree, but in order >for a person to be certified in the State of Texas, you have to have a HS >Diploma or a GED. You can not be a high school drop out and be a medic. >Granted there may be some that drop out and get a GED, but atleast they >completed their high school education, so I would not classify them as a >high school drop out. > >Also to answer your question, I would delegate more to a certified medic >with 5 yrs experience before I would to a rookie LP. With equal experience >as you put it, they would BOTH have the same abilities. Because one is an >LP and the other is not, does not mean that the LP is going to get to do >more. Just remember, without a MD (Medical Director) you don't practice. > >There are a couple of other things that I do want to talk about in othet >post like the commit made about BEMS and private medics, but will do that in >another post. > >Just remember, because you are an LP does not make you any better then your >certified counterpart. Unless you are the person from BEMS that thinks he >is better than everyone else because he is an LP. You all have to work as a >team. As it was pointed out before, you are all EMTs first and Paramedics >second. You have to do the basics before you can do the advanced. > >Take care, >Doug , DO, NREMT-P > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite >Visit http://freeworld.excite.com > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Successful or aspiring career women won't want to miss Women.Future! >Today's top business women share how they led their way to the top. >Find out how at >http://click./1/1876/3/_/4981/_/952077783/ > >-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! >-- /cal?listname= & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Doug - again you miss the point. It's not about LP's thinking or being better than certified paramedics. It's not about who can do what to whom. It's about a standard of education that's sorely needed in EMS so that paramedicine as a field and profession can progress out of the " technical " arena and into the true " practice " of medicine, including performing and evaluating research and applying that research back into the field in the form of protocols, treatments and patient care derivatives. Without a solid educational background, getting the professional research aspect of paramedicine off the ground is going to be next to impossible. The paramedics with statistical analysis training, formal writing (and spelling competency) training and business presentation training will be much more prepared than his NSC certified-only counterpart when it comes to explaining to non-medical personnel what paramedics do, why they do it, what happens because of it and what changes are needed. The degreed LP will have a background in at least enough research to pass college level English, History and Mathematics, and will have been exposed to a broader curriculum that requires a broader range of thought and multiple approaches to problem solving. The LP isn't better than the certified EMT-P as a person, they aren't necessarily better at performing paramedic-level skills. They're just better prepared to be more than a " monkey " performing skills (monkeys can be trained to intubate, but I don't know of many monkeys that can use a card catalog or formulate a bibliography). Mike LP in progress... Degree or No Degree Greetings, It seems to me that we have cussed and discussed this topic before when the LP certification first came out. It was also talked about when there was talk that Texas would allow someone with x number of yrs experience to apply for and become an LP. This was the bill that I was supporting, as there are good " compedent " medics out there that do not have a degree. There are also medics out there that are just as " incompedent " and hold a degree. As we all know there is always two sides to every issue that is talked about on here. And each person has the right to feel strongly about this subject or any other subject that is talked about on here. Let me point something out to all of you LPs. You may feel that in some ways you are better than a certified medic because you have, AS, AAS, BS, BBA, MS, etc behind your name, but the degree does not make the medic, the training does. Not your college degree training, but the training that you received from your paramedic school, which was probably taught by a certified medic and not a LP. Granted you may have more book knowledge as far as college courses, but tell me how someone with a degree in Accounting or Business Administration or as it has been put " Underwater Basket Weaving " going to help you provide better patient care? Are you going to do the persons taxes or give investment advice on the way to the hospital, no. I know that most of you are saying how stupid this sounds coming from a physician. Let me point out I have a lot more education than any of the LPs have. Besides I'm sure that you have all heard the joke about what they call the person that graduated last in medical school...doctor. And no that was not me. The more all of you fight over who is better, makes both the certified medic and especially the LP look like second grade children fighting over who is better. LPs think they are better because they have a degree. But did you think that you were better before or after Texas started the LP certification? Let me remind all of you that are LP, what patch did you wear before the LP patch came out? YOu wore the same patch that all of the other medics across Texas wore. Just because you are an LP, don't let it go to your head, because YOU ALL were once just a certified medic. LPs should not look down on the certified medics, because as I have said, you all have been there. There have was a post on here from an LP that stated they did not wear their LP patch because they did not want other medics to think that they were any better than them. Everyone should have this same attitude. I'm hoping that someone will again this yr or next start the push for the same bill that was not passed last yr to allow medics with x amount of experience to apply for LP status. Let me also point out something that was in a post, that is incorrect and if were an LP you should know better, because you have a degree, but in order for a person to be certified in the State of Texas, you have to have a HS Diploma or a GED. You can not be a high school drop out and be a medic. Granted there may be some that drop out and get a GED, but atleast they completed their high school education, so I would not classify them as a high school drop out. Also to answer your question, I would delegate more to a certified medic with 5 yrs experience before I would to a rookie LP. With equal experience as you put it, they would BOTH have the same abilities. Because one is an LP and the other is not, does not mean that the LP is going to get to do more. Just remember, without a MD (Medical Director) you don't practice. There are a couple of other things that I do want to talk about in othet post like the commit made about BEMS and private medics, but will do that in another post. Just remember, because you are an LP does not make you any better then your certified counterpart. Unless you are the person from BEMS that thinks he is better than everyone else because he is an LP. You all have to work as a team. As it was pointed out before, you are all EMTs first and Paramedics second. You have to do the basics before you can do the advanced. Take care, Doug , DO, NREMT-P _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Successful or aspiring career women won't want to miss Women.Future! Today's top business women share how they led their way to the top. Find out how at http://click./1/1876/3/_/4981/_/952077783/ -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! -- /cal?listname= & m=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Greetings, It seems that Mike here thinks that all certified medics are now trained monkeys. The LP certification does not make the medic only training that person has received in medic school and any additional training is what makes the medic better, not the LP or BS, MS, MSN, MBA, etc. Mike, you seem to be one of the ones that think certified medics are not as good as LPs. Mike, let me say that as EMT-I, you are no better than a trained monkey right now, so if the shoe fits. Folks, I think that it is time to finally put this dead horse back into its grave and move on to something else. We have all made our point and we each have our own opinions as far as this subject goes. THanks, Dr. Doug , DO/NREMT-P > > The LP isn't better than the certified EMT-P as a person, they aren't > necessarily better at performing paramedic-level skills. They're just > better prepared to be more than a " monkey " performing skills (monkeys can be > trained to intubate, but I don't know of many monkeys that can use a card > catalog or formulate a bibliography). > > Mike > LP in progress... > _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Let me point out that, if you look at the time I wrote my post it was about 4am. After having worked all day, I think that I'm entitled to misspell a word now and then. You must have been an English major. Let me say that English was not one of my best subjects in school. Thanks, Doug On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:47:18 -0600, egroups wrote: > > Just a reminder that when talking about competence and education it is good > to spell the word right. And just for the record, education and experience > are not interchangable. They each have their own worth. > > Degree or No Degree > > > >Greetings, > > > >It seems to me that we have cussed and discussed this topic before when the > >LP certification first came out. It was also talked about when there was > >talk that Texas would allow someone with x number of yrs experience to > apply > >for and become an LP. This was the bill that I was supporting, as there > are > >good " compedent " medics out there that do not have a degree. There are > also > >medics out there that are just as " incompedent " and hold a degree. As we > >all know there is always two sides to every issue that is talked about on > >here. And each person has the right to feel strongly about this subject or > >any other subject that is talked about on here. > > > >Let me point something out to all of you LPs. You may feel that in some > >ways you are better than a certified medic because you have, AS, AAS, BS, > >BBA, MS, etc behind your name, but the degree does not make the medic, the > >training does. Not your college degree training, but the training that you > >received from your paramedic school, which was probably taught by a > >certified medic and not a LP. Granted you may have more book knowledge as > >far as college courses, but tell me how someone with a degree in Accounting > >or Business Administration or as it has been put " Underwater Basket > Weaving " > >going to help you provide better patient care? Are you going to do the > >persons taxes or give investment advice on the way to the hospital, no. I > >know that most of you are saying how stupid this sounds coming from a > >physician. Let me point out I have a lot more education than any of the > LPs > >have. Besides I'm sure that you have all heard the joke about what they > call > >the person that graduated last in medical school...doctor. And no that was > >not me. > > > >The more all of you fight over who is better, makes both the certified > medic > >and especially the LP look like second grade children fighting over who is > >better. LPs think they are better because they have a degree. But did you > >think that you were better before or after Texas started the LP > >certification? Let me remind all of you that are LP, what patch did you > >wear before the LP patch came out? YOu wore the same patch that all of the > >other medics across Texas wore. Just because you are an LP, don't let it > go > >to your head, because YOU ALL were once just a certified medic. > > > >LPs should not look down on the certified medics, because as I have said, > >you all have been there. There have was a post on here from an LP that > >stated they did not wear their LP patch because they did not want other > >medics to think that they were any better than them. Everyone should have > >this same attitude. > > > >I'm hoping that someone will again this yr or next start the push for the > >same bill that was not passed last yr to allow medics with x amount of > >experience to apply for LP status. > > > >Let me also point out something that was in a post, that is incorrect and > if > >were an LP you should know better, because you have a degree, but in order > >for a person to be certified in the State of Texas, you have to have a HS > >Diploma or a GED. You can not be a high school drop out and be a medic. > >Granted there may be some that drop out and get a GED, but atleast they > >completed their high school education, so I would not classify them as a > >high school drop out. > > > >Also to answer your question, I would delegate more to a certified medic > >with 5 yrs experience before I would to a rookie LP. With equal experience > >as you put it, they would BOTH have the same abilities. Because one is an > >LP and the other is not, does not mean that the LP is going to get to do > >more. Just remember, without a MD (Medical Director) you don't practice. > > > >There are a couple of other things that I do want to talk about in othet > >post like the commit made about BEMS and private medics, but will do that > in > >another post. > > > >Just remember, because you are an LP does not make you any better then your > >certified counterpart. Unless you are the person from BEMS that thinks he > >is better than everyone else because he is an LP. You all have to work as > a > >team. As it was pointed out before, you are all EMTs first and Paramedics > >second. You have to do the basics before you can do the advanced. > > > >Take care, > >Doug , DO, NREMT-P > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ > >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > >Visit http://freeworld.excite.com > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Successful or aspiring career women won't want to miss Women.Future! > >Today's top business women share how they led their way to the top. > >Find out how at > >http://click./1/1876/3/_/4981/_/952077783/ > > > >-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! > >-- /cal?listname= & m=1 > > > > > > > > << File Attachment Removed: " text/html " >> _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 So Doug, you are a Doctor. Do you think you should give a medical degree to a person that knows medicine but has not had as much training as you. R. Saunders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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