Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Dr. Delbet studied human bile in the laboratory and found that the addition of magnesium drove out practically all the cholesterol, and he noted that the addition of magnesium added a pigmentation to the bile, gave it a deeper coloring. Its effect on the bile was to make the cholesterol in it more soluble. >> __________________ Excellent post, Dale. I'm going to get some more info on magnesium. I take this stuff every day, which has helped me! Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 So in that sense it does " open " the ducts - but not in the sense of making them larger, but allowing them to enlarge as needed for the passage of the stones. And remember, there are two functions of the Epsom Salts. They also serve to empty out the bowels beforehand and to help expel the stones the next morning. >> __________________ Hi, Everyone, If I have used the word " dilate, " then I apologize. The more appropriate word is " relax. " In thinking back, I'm about sure I said " dilate " at one time or another. For those who have done the cleanses before, I know that they understand what I was saying. Take care, Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 What you've said reminds me of a parable found in the Holy Bible (whether anyone believes in the Holy Bible or not, this story is the answer to all this 'belief' stuff) >> ________________ Barry, I share your love of the Scriptures, which is the word of Truth. I do not see any way that one can separate their health from this because we don't even own the breath that we breathe. Yahweh gave it to us. He also gave us many healthy things to eat. One most precious thing is olive oil, which I think we're going to find out more about its benefits in the upcoming future. The things that he gave for the service of mankind are for our benefit and health. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 >>We are getting alittle frusterated trying to explain over and over again the function of the liver<< Not everyone has the same " understanding " , based on their own examination of evidence and experience. There is no need to explain anything over and over. I think you should use the word " I " , instead of assuming you speak for everyone on the list. You have sort of proven my point. Debra _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Magnesium doesn't dialate the ducts, it relaxes them, muscles, etc. L. Meydrech " A cheerful heart is good medicine " Prov. 17:22a http://nutritionist.tripod.com Dale wrote, in a very thoughtful posting: >The assumption that the magnisum dialates is wrong Is that then the consensus, that magnesium sulfate does *not* dilate the ducts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 My beliefs ARE based on my personal experiences. When I express an opinion, you are the only one who seems to feel a strong need to convince me of something. I feel no need to convince you, it is not important to me whether you feel as I do or not. I am glad that you are happy with what you are doing, and that it is helping you. As for me, I do feel great, and I know that my liver is stone-free. Debra >From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...> >Reply-gallstones >gallstones >Subject: Re: Beliefs and Cleansing >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:44:29 -0000 > >Debra, > >If the explantion and photos on http://www.curezone.com and " Are you >stoned " is not proof enough for anyone in this group, than probably >nothing will be except for personal experience and results. I think >the proof is more in the personal results than in the information. >If you clean your liver and gb of (whatever) sludge, sand, grain, >crystal, stones, globs, gunk, balls and you feel great because you >still have your vital digestive organ, what other proof would anyone >want or need? > >Barry. > > > > > > > > > Dale, > > > > You and I have agreed, and respectfully disagreed on some issues >over the > > past few years. I have always respected the way you respond to >people. I > > disagree with you about Ira, though. He is persistent in his >search for the > > truth, and is looking for hard evidence. He has not felt >satisfied, so he > > keeps asking. I think he would love to feel that > > he has been offered proof, but he doesn't. Others feel that they >have > > enough. I don't think he is trying to convince anyone that they >are wrong. > > You are entitled to feel he is dead wrong, but he is not hurting >anyone. I > > feel his search, and his intentions, are honest. Who knows, maybe >if he > > hangs around long enough he will try a flush himself, and write in >a rave > > testimonial. > > > > Debra > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 >>Being ignorant of a situation or topic is different. Ignorant in that form is only a lack of sifficient knowledge.<< We have different knowledge. I have sufficient knowledge of my own experience, health, and well-being to offer my own knowledge. Debra _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 >>The odds are, sadly, that they are all still right there - multiplying, growing and undetected by modern medical exam methods.<< Don't see how they could " still " be there, if they weren't there in the first place. Also, I don't think I could possibly feel so healthy if what you say is true. And if this happens to everyone, why isn't everyone in pain from liver/gallbladder attacks? AGAIN, I am not saying that I don't think that stones never form in the liver. No need to explain that again. But I have no doubt that I, and many others, are stone-free. And it feels GREAT! I know that many of you who are flushing are feeling great too, and I see that as cause for celebration, regardless of what minor differences of opinion may occur. Let's just be happy for each others' health!! Debra _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 >>If you clean your liver and gb of (whatever) sludge, sand, grain, crystal, stones, globs, gunk, balls and you feel great because you still have your vital digestive organ, what other proof would anyone want or need? << Well, I still have a liver, and evidently if this is all the proof I need, then I know I have no gunk, because I have never felt better! Debra _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 >>I was blind and now I see!! This personal experience (along with a few others) caused millions of others to believe with faith the proof they saw by fact. No one can prove it, but anyone can experience it for themselves. << This is exactly how I feel about my personal experience. THANK YOU! >>How does this relate to this group? Well, I was tired, sick, in constant pain, and blotted. Now I'm healthier, more alert, feeling well, pain reduced dramatically (or gone in others), and I still have my digestive organs!!! End of debate. << I felt all those things too. I too have much more energy, and am pain-free. I was terrified of the results of surgery would be, and had to experience it for myself to believe that I could feel this good. Hurray for us both! Debra _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 >>I do want to state that even though Debra probably has a decent doctor, >>from what I'm seeing from her posts, she has a rosycolored view of the medical world,<< No, I think I was pretty lucky, actually. I think a lot of research should be done before one entrusts oneself to any particular doctor. I got my GP through word-of-mouth, and I have to say he is incredible. I have never met anyone who doesn't love him. I had my kids in a birthing-center (not on a hospital campus, just a little house) with a midwife, whom I adored. I DO think there are doctors who think they are god, don't want their opinions questioned at all, don't really look at people as individuals, and I think they are to be avoided at all costs. I just think that there are good ones out there too, but you gotta look for them. I have taken my kids to my doctor's practice, and had to see someone else about two times. I was VERY unhappy both times, and let them know that I would not see either doctor again. I felt condescended to, like my questions were unimportant, like I knew nothing about my own kid. Fortunately, neither of those two doctors are with the practice anymore, but they are probably inflicting their superiority on others somewhere else! Debra _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Hi Ira, I don't think anyone can fault you for your quest for all the facts...I'll repeat myself by saying I think they are out there. For you, I guess, it is just going to take more digging to find them...but, I think you'll eventually find them. I don't know if you're referring to Dr. , in your statement about people writing a book after taking a 100 hour correspondence course, but that is quite a slanderous statement if it's not true. Dr. 's statements appear to be based on solid evidence and facts. May I suggest you write to her personally. She may be able to give you the information you're seeking. If you've not read her book, I'll say here that she talks about the stones being composed of cholesterol crystals, and bits of parasites or bacteria being found in the core of them. That's a fantastic claim to make, if not true. I'm sure you've heard about doctors reporting clinical evidence of successful treatments that have not the benefit of research behind them. That could be the most likely case here, as we've discussed before. And if so, do we discount the clinical evidence just because there may not be scientific research to back it up? However, I think the scientific research may already be available, which is why I suggested you write to Dr. . As a side note, I've saved about 50 of the stones I've passed (pea-green, approx 3mm to 5mm in size); they're in the freezer. I'd love to have them analyzed, but so far, I've not found a place to have it done. Adrienne --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 When having gallstones analyzed it is important to specify what it is you're trying to acquire. I had some analyzed but all the report stated was that it was fecal matter. This is a DA, of course it's fecal matter, because it's made up of bile fecal matter is made up of bile. You will need to request the cholesterol content and it's make up. If the report comes back as stating it is a waxy substance with some bile ingredients you then have a substantive report because that is just what a bile stone will be. This is because it isn't soap. Dale Ira, we don't kick people off without substantive reasons and I was thinking you might get a little confused about wormwood so check this out and think about its properties. http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h380.htm It may be bitter tasting but can have properties to which one can look as beneficial too. You are a smart man so don't you think you merit that potential, Debra thinks you do and I do too? Just make sure that when you post something like you did with the amalgams you look into it a bit deeper as trace minerals can have a very adverse effect on the human body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Debra, I'm very happy for yours or anyone elses health. You are truly blessed. I merely stated the obvious possibility that you may be mistaken and have stones thay ye know not of If so, they will not cause a problem for a while, but as time passes, they will. Thanks for your opinion. Vince Richter >From: " D B " <fairyflight@...> >Reply-gallstones >gallstones >Subject: Re: Re: Beliefs and Cleansing >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:40:38 -0500 > > > > >>The odds are, sadly, that they are all still right there - multiplying, >growing and undetected by modern medical exam methods.<< > >Don't see how they could " still " be there, if they weren't there in the >first place. Also, I don't think I could possibly feel so healthy if what >you say is true. And if this happens to everyone, why isn't everyone in >pain >from liver/gallbladder attacks? AGAIN, I am not saying that I don't think >that stones never form in the liver. No need to explain that again. But I >have no doubt that I, and many others, are stone-free. And it feels GREAT! >I know that many of you who are flushing are feeling great too, and I see >that as cause for celebration, regardless of what minor differences of >opinion may occur. Let's just be happy for each others' health!! > >Debra > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > >Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories: >http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials > >Liver Cleanse Recipe: >http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/ > >Images: >http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/ >http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/ > >Post message: gallstones >Receive no-mail: gallstones-nomail >Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe >Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe > >Web Sites for more information: >http://CureZone.com/gallstones/ >http://www.liverdoctor.com/ >http://www.sensiblehealth.com/ >http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm >http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html > >Group page: gallstones > >To change your subscription to digest (receive up to 25 e-mails in just one >single e-mail, once a day) send blank e-mail to: >gallstones-digest > >To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-mail to: >gallstones-nomail > >To change your subscription to NORMAL (receive each message separate) >send blank e-mail to: gallstones-normal > >You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the >Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold >yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! >Have a nice day ! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 I really think it would be a good thing if you stopped trying to speak for everyone. >> ___________ Debra, I surely don't feel Barry is doing this, thinking for everyone. But if he is, then he definitely has a right to his opinion! Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Adrienne, Do you have a college or university nearby with science or medicine being studied there? They could probably analyze them for you....- Adrienne McLaughlin wrote: > As a side note, I've saved about 50 of the stones I've passed > (pea-green, approx 3mm to 5mm in size); they're in the freezer. I'd > love to have them analyzed, but so far, I've not found a place to have > it done. > > Adrienne > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Lulu, Wow, Cool answer. I'm sold on ES too. Works great. Cleans the bowels, and is good for the bile. Dale says it doesn't dilute, but it makes the ducts more flexible or pliable. I personally think it dilutes a lot of organs in your body. Anyway, I loved your answer. Had to read it twice. :-) Peace to you too... Barry. > > I don't know the scientific technicalities of what you are all discussing but I will tell you my experience. > The epsom salt helped me dispel and the night before I had just done the olive oil alone with no results at all, so potentially it could help with flushing and whatever reason that is you will have to look up the scientific data on why that would happen as I have no interest nor inclination to care much about the details of how this works so long as it is safe and not going to harm me in the long term which I am satisified with from all that I have seen regarding the use thereof. > Peace > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ira L. son > gallstones@y... > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:19 PM > Subject: Re: Beliefs and Cleansing > > > Dale wrote, in a very thoughtful posting: > > >The assumption that the magnisum dialates is wrong > > Is that then the consensus, that magnesium sulfate does *not* dilate > the ducts? > > Then the regimens that exclude it make more sense than those that use > it? And the torture undergone by some who take 5 tablespoons at a > time were in vain? > > > > > ----------------------- > IRA L. JACOBSON > ----------------------- > mailto:laser@i... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 why is www.curezone.com not working? ----- Original Message ----- From: " barry91162 " <barry91162@...> <gallstones > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Beliefs and Cleansing > Ira, > > Faith is not only a belief for religion. When you get on an airplane > you have 'faith' that the pilot will get the plane safely to its > destination. Why you always refer to belief or faith as 'religion' is > beyond me. Science only proves what is already in the fixed laws of > nature. The attempt of science to prove known laws of nature is only > to reveal these truths, not to change them. Humans are slow in the > process of proving laws of nature with science. We humans can only > slowly reveal what is already the truth of natural laws. Same with > medicine. Doctors can only cure what they know to this point in time. > AIDS, cancer, etc. is still to be proven. AIDS patients will > take 'test' medication with 'faith' that their answers will come. > Is that a bad thing? No. They would do anything, even what hasn't > been 'approved' yet by the medical field to save their lives. Faith > is required for most everything you do in life. > > If you need proof for flushing you'll just have to try it yourself. > I have proven to myself that the cleanse is beneficial for me. I > don't know about everyone. Though, everyone I've heard in here have > been attesting to their own individual proof of their success in > their personal results. Does this not incourage you to attempt a > small step in faith to try and relieve the pain that you are having? > If not then I'm am very sorry to hear that your own skepitism will > not allow you to attempt this. What more can be done for you? > Before I even came into this group to ask questions I viewed the > website www.curezone.com. The photos and testimonies were enough to > encourage me to attempt the cleansing. My pain has been reduced > tremendously. I'm sold on flushing. I don't need a doctor or > scientist to prove to me how I'm feeling. Do you? I didn't need > people in a group to convince me to try an alternative way to keep my > gallbladder neither. > > I must say, I , and many others in here are wondering what we can > really do for you. The information is ALL out. The sites are here > too. If you cannot be convinced at this point, maybe you never will. > I hope this is not the case for you but unless you open your mind a > little more to these results, maybe you will never be able to see > anything that will help you personally. > > Good luck with you health. I hope you find the right answers for you. > > Barry. > > > > > > Barry sent the following text, which was included in > > Digest Number 1007 : > > > > >You know, with all this talk about facts, proof, beliefs, etc. I > > >think that this (as well as a lot of alternatative methods) > requires > > > > > >a step out in (at least a little) faith. What you've said reminds > me > > > > > >of . . . . > > >The 'doubters' asked him if it was from God or Satan. His one reply > > >was...Who cares? (paraphrased of course), I was blind and now I > > >see!! > > >This personal experience (along with a few others) caused millions > > >of > > >others to believe with faith the proof they saw by fact. No one can > > >prove it, but anyone can experience it for themselves. :-) > > > > Thank you, Barry, for expressing yourself so clearly. Your belief > is > > precisely a religious type of belief. While traditional medicine > > requires proofs based on testing thousands of individuals, > > double-blind studies and peer review, your acceptance is based on > > pure faith. This was indeed my contention from the outset of this > > thread. > > > > This is not, of course, to take sides as to whether scientific > proof > > or personal faith is a more effective tool, but rather only to > > characterize your beliefs as such. And to wish you the best in > > carrying out these beliefs, so that the pesky little 10-millimetre > > stone will flush out. Which I truly hope and wish that it will do. > > > > >End of debate. > > > > QED. > > > > > > ----------------------- > > IRA L. JACOBSON > > > > Today's Quote > > " I use a hammer, chisel, and stone tablets. Customers > > like them because they double as coffee tables. > > Although functions like spell check, and find-and- > > replace sometimes give me problems. And really long > > documents are a real pain. Also stone tables don't > > translate easily into HTML. " > > - Wade > > ----------------------- > > mailto:laser@i... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Ira, Faith is not only a belief for religion. When you get on an airplane you have 'faith' that the pilot will get the plane safely to its destination. Why you always refer to belief or faith as 'religion' is beyond me. Science only proves what is already in the fixed laws of nature. The attempt of science to prove known laws of nature is only to reveal these truths, not to change them. Humans are slow in the process of proving laws of nature with science. We humans can only slowly reveal what is already the truth of natural laws. Same with medicine. Doctors can only cure what they know to this point in time. AIDS, cancer, etc. is still to be proven. AIDS patients will take 'test' medication with 'faith' that their answers will come. Is that a bad thing? No. They would do anything, even what hasn't been 'approved' yet by the medical field to save their lives. Faith is required for most everything you do in life. If you need proof for flushing you'll just have to try it yourself. I have proven to myself that the cleanse is beneficial for me. I don't know about everyone. Though, everyone I've heard in here have been attesting to their own individual proof of their success in their personal results. Does this not incourage you to attempt a small step in faith to try and relieve the pain that you are having? If not then I'm am very sorry to hear that your own skepitism will not allow you to attempt this. What more can be done for you? Before I even came into this group to ask questions I viewed the website www.curezone.com. The photos and testimonies were enough to encourage me to attempt the cleansing. My pain has been reduced tremendously. I'm sold on flushing. I don't need a doctor or scientist to prove to me how I'm feeling. Do you? I didn't need people in a group to convince me to try an alternative way to keep my gallbladder neither. I must say, I , and many others in here are wondering what we can really do for you. The information is ALL out. The sites are here too. If you cannot be convinced at this point, maybe you never will. I hope this is not the case for you but unless you open your mind a little more to these results, maybe you will never be able to see anything that will help you personally. Good luck with you health. I hope you find the right answers for you. Barry. > Barry sent the following text, which was included in > Digest Number 1007 : > > >You know, with all this talk about facts, proof, beliefs, etc. I > >think that this (as well as a lot of alternatative methods) requires > > > >a step out in (at least a little) faith. What you've said reminds me > > > >of . . . . > >The 'doubters' asked him if it was from God or Satan. His one reply > >was...Who cares? (paraphrased of course), I was blind and now I > >see!! > >This personal experience (along with a few others) caused millions > >of > >others to believe with faith the proof they saw by fact. No one can > >prove it, but anyone can experience it for themselves. :-) > > Thank you, Barry, for expressing yourself so clearly. Your belief is > precisely a religious type of belief. While traditional medicine > requires proofs based on testing thousands of individuals, > double-blind studies and peer review, your acceptance is based on > pure faith. This was indeed my contention from the outset of this > thread. > > This is not, of course, to take sides as to whether scientific proof > or personal faith is a more effective tool, but rather only to > characterize your beliefs as such. And to wish you the best in > carrying out these beliefs, so that the pesky little 10-millimetre > stone will flush out. Which I truly hope and wish that it will do. > > >End of debate. > > QED. > > > ----------------------- > IRA L. JACOBSON > > Today's Quote > " I use a hammer, chisel, and stone tablets. Customers > like them because they double as coffee tables. > Although functions like spell check, and find-and- > replace sometimes give me problems. And really long > documents are a real pain. Also stone tables don't > translate easily into HTML. " > - Wade > ----------------------- > mailto:laser@i... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Debra, Let me say this again in another way so that you aren't continuely 'diluting' yourself. MOST of the people in here are of the same opinion whereas only a couple are in opposition to the general opinion. And yes, I (for one) am frusterated in repeating myself and seeing others repeating the same information to you in vain. Your 'experience' is not valid in a group of people doing gallbladder cleanses when you have never attempted the cleanses that are posted on the sites in this group. I hope my point is proven. Barry. > >>We are getting alittle frusterated > trying to explain over and over again the function of the liver<< > > > > Not everyone has the same " understanding " , based on their own examination of > evidence and experience. There is no need to explain anything over and > over. I think you should use the word " I " , instead of assuming you speak > for everyone on the list. You have sort of proven my point. > > Debra > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 And just how many people have the medical establishment abused based on beliefs that they did not have any scientific data to support the reported effects of a treatment/medication only to later find out AFTER the drug was studied long enough to acquiesce to the patients plea that this was doing " reported symptoms " to their body and not throw them off as being paranoid! Oh yes, the drugs even when studied and shown certain side effects in certain people the doctors are not even AWARE of what to look for and the pamphlet says " contact you doctor if this occurs " ....HOGWASH! I want to add that when I was 24 years old and under the knife of surgeons who insisted to take my female organs that when they put me on this " synthetic estrogen " and it was literally killing me the doctors told me what....hmm....let me think.... " Ms. we are certain your experience is not from the estrogen replacement because this only happens to one in a million people " ....they then went on to tell me that if I refused to take it that more horrors to my physical existence would happen and that I should not go off from it......well guess what it took for me to do just that and be thanking God above all these years that I actually found those people in that minority having experienced the same as I did and finding out that my body would survive very well thank you without their harmful drugs......AND THAT I AM LIVING PROOF OF THIS! So I was one of the percent and they insisted I wasn't....what proof did they need, a body in a morgue?????And by the way, I found those dear women who went through what I did via the beautifully woven world of the internet highway of computer communications. I am glad that my gallstones the color of turquoise came out of my body and who cares if they weren't the color of the irish hills, that just means one thing, that we are each individually different and I bet all the green hues of our stones would cover every green of the spectrum of the rainbow. Peace Lu ----- Original Message ----- From: Ira L. son gallstones Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:03 AM Subject: Re: Beliefs and Cleansing Barry sent the following text, which was included in Digest Number 1007 : >You know, with all this talk about facts, proof, beliefs, etc. I >think that this (as well as a lot of alternatative methods) requires > >a step out in (at least a little) faith. What you've said reminds me > >of . . . . >The 'doubters' asked him if it was from God or Satan. His one reply >was...Who cares? (paraphrased of course), I was blind and now I >see!! >This personal experience (along with a few others) caused millions >of >others to believe with faith the proof they saw by fact. No one can >prove it, but anyone can experience it for themselves. :-) Thank you, Barry, for expressing yourself so clearly. Your belief is precisely a religious type of belief. While traditional medicine requires proofs based on testing thousands of individuals, double-blind studies and peer review, your acceptance is based on pure faith. This was indeed my contention from the outset of this thread. This is not, of course, to take sides as to whether scientific proof or personal faith is a more effective tool, but rather only to characterize your beliefs as such. And to wish you the best in carrying out these beliefs, so that the pesky little 10-millimetre stone will flush out. Which I truly hope and wish that it will do. >End of debate. QED. ----------------------- IRA L. JACOBSON Today's Quote " I use a hammer, chisel, and stone tablets. Customers like them because they double as coffee tables. Although functions like spell check, and find-and- replace sometimes give me problems. And really long documents are a real pain. Also stone tables don't translate easily into HTML. " - Wade ----------------------- mailto:laser@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Your personal exreiences are invalid in a group that is primarily here to discuss their results of gallbladder cleansing as described in the many sites posted in here. You have never attempted the cleansing that those of us in here are attesting will result in better health. You have stated before that you have never done a cleanse as described on these sites and that your only purpose was to help people recover from surgery. Your expression of opinion is not in the area of helping people recover from surgery but they are only to question the results of the cleansing. BTW, my posts are not to convince or prove anything to you. My posts are for the benefit of anyone else who is reading and deciding weither to attempt a cleanse or not. I never cast my pearls before swine. Barry. > > > > > > > > > Dale, > > > > > > You and I have agreed, and respectfully disagreed on some issues > >over the > > > past few years. I have always respected the way you respond to > >people. I > > > disagree with you about Ira, though. He is persistent in his > >search for the > > > truth, and is looking for hard evidence. He has not felt > >satisfied, so he > > > keeps asking. I think he would love to feel that > > > he has been offered proof, but he doesn't. Others feel that they > >have > > > enough. I don't think he is trying to convince anyone that they > >are wrong. > > > You are entitled to feel he is dead wrong, but he is not hurting > >anyone. I > > > feel his search, and his intentions, are honest. Who knows, maybe > >if he > > > hangs around long enough he will try a flush himself, and write in > >a rave > > > testimonial. > > > > > > Debra > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Debra, Yes, our knowledge is different... My knowledge is based on doing the flushes described on these sites and in this group. Your knowledge is based on not flushing in the manner described on these sites and in this group. The knowledge you have is for people who have already had surgery. This group is more for people attempting to cleanse and avoid surgery rather than for people who need advice for after surgery care. It is great that you are in the group to help those people who need after surgery advice but the majority of people are in here to seek knowledge about keeping their organ and not have to ask for after surgery care. The fact that your opinion is posted at topics that is beyond your scope of cleasning knowledge shows an attempt to disclaim the results that are posted to encourage the cleansing that is being encourage in this group. I will not interfer with your knowledge of after surgery care if you will not interfer with the knowledge of cleansing results. Barry. > >>Being ignorant of a situation or topic is > different. Ignorant in that form is only a lack of sifficient > knowledge.<< > > We have different knowledge. I have sufficient knowledge of my own > experience, health, and well-being to offer my own knowledge. > > Debra > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Debra, Yes, it is great that you and I are feeling better but you are taking this post out of the context it was intended for. The intention was to promote the alternative method of cleansing while keeping your vital digestive organ, the gallbladder. It wasn't meant for those who have removed their gallbladder. The intention of this group is to encourage the alternative methods of keeping the gallbladder and restoring it with the process of cleansing. This is meant to encourage those of us who are on the road to cleansing the gallbladder and avoiding the surgery to remove the organ. If you have misunderstood the intent of this post that was directed as an answer to someone else I am sorry if you were misled. Barry. > >>I was blind and now I see!! > This personal experience (along with a few others) caused millions of > others to believe with faith the proof they saw by fact. No one can > prove it, but anyone can experience it for themselves. << > > This is exactly how I feel about my personal experience. THANK YOU! > > >>How does this relate to this group? Well, I was tired, sick, in > constant pain, and blotted. Now I'm healthier, more alert, feeling > well, pain reduced dramatically (or gone in others), and I still have > my digestive organs!!! > > End of debate. << > > I felt all those things too. I too have much more energy, and am pain-free. > I was terrified of the results of surgery would be, and had to experience > it for myself to believe that I could feel this good. > > Hurray for us both! > > Debra > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 >>you may be mistaken and have stones thay ye know not of << Vince, I am quite satisfied that I don't. I have faith in the test that was done. Debra _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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