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In a message dated 12/11/98 1:45:14 PM Central Standard Time,

railroadrita@... writes:

<< Hi, Pupship--

If you find AA meetings fun, or comforting, or whatever, then by all

means continue to attend them. However, the belief that meeting attendance,

or " working the steps " , either causes or is necessary for sobriety, is a false

one.>>>>

I am inclined to think that this varies from individual to individual.

Certainly, there are some for whom the steps are superfluous, but for others

they can be very therapeutic. And for some, AA can be an enhancement, not a

shackle. I am sure counterexamples exist.

<< What most of us on this listserv find objectionable about AA is

(1) its encouragement of magical thinking, which is used to convince

vulnerable newcomers that they must be active members for life;>>

I don't hear much of this; most of the people seem to be taking it, if you'll

pardon the expression, " one day at a time. "

<< (2) its total dismissal of other recovery philosophies, especially those

that stress self-reliance and personal responsibility, and>>

Haven't heard this either; in fact, I've gotten the impression that anyone who

wants to leave and try something else is welcome to do it. The " big book " says

something like, " our hats are off to anyone who can control their drinking

without this program; we couldn't do it. "

<< (3) its anti-intellectual religiosity, expressed in infantile slogans such

as " The elevator's broken, use the Steps " , " Utilize 'em, don't analyze 'em " ,

and " Your best thinking got you here. " >>

I've noticed this; but I use whatever tools work for me in addition to the AA

stuff, and I'm no Bill W dittohead, either; I've come across many a passage in

AA literature that I disagree with, and am never shunned for making it known.

I've even criticized parts of the big book in meetings before; no one

discouraged me from doing this, although I prefer to keep my rational

dissections to myself. I am enamoured of other psychological approaches like

" rational self interest " and other things, and consider them to be at my

disposal.

<< In addition, many of us were not allowed to leave when we decided AA

was unsuitable for us, because we were forced to attend X number of meetings a

week (for months or even years) by courts or employers, and many of us in that

position are not and have never been " alcoholic. " >>

That I can understand; it's a crude practice when one considers the wealth of

psychological information at our disposal, and the alternatives that could

exist.

<< We feel AA is betraying its own traditions by tattling on people's

attendance or lack thereof through the signing of attendance slips, and we are

outraged at this cooperation with those that would push faith-healing on non-

believers by force.>>

Haven't really thought about that one much.

<< What has your experience with drinking and with AA been like? >>>

I was losing control and blacking out frequently. Having a place to go where

there were a bunch of other people interested in not drinking every day helped

me get through the cravings, etc. I would have found abstinence very difficult

without it. I think some parts of AA are strange, but it has helped me clear

up my thinking and take a good look at myself. I'm not sure how long I'll

" keep coming back. " I am lucky to have a sponsor who I mix well with, who

understands me and doesn't seem like some sort of guru or whatever.

<< Is there anything about " the AA way of life " that makes you uncomfortable?

Inquiring, rational minds want to know.>>

Sometimes I wonder if there may be some kind of cumulative, subtle

psychological effect of repeated group identification I ought to be watching

out for, but it seems pretty mild in that regard. When it starts looking

weird, I just imagine I'm watching a documentary about some religious

community or something. I can see how the wrong mixture of individuals could

seriously screw with each others' heads in AA, and am sure that abusive groups

have existed. The group I go to seems pretty safe so far.

<< ~Railroad Rita>>

Feel free to go all-out if you want this to be a debate; I'm generally game

for that sort of thing. I would also like to hear more about the experiences

of those who have had negative experiences in the program, criticisms, etc.

I'm here to learn.

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