Re: Digest Number 915

[Guest guest]

Speaking as an OCD sufferer, I can say that there is another reason why some

of us do it. Pain can stimulate endorphin release while at the same time

forcing your attention away from the obsessive thoughts. Pain demands

attention, and often will " override " obsessive thoughts. This helps reduce

the anxiety these thoughts cause. The endorphin rush helps with that, too.

As a child and teenager I often used pain to " short-circuit " some of the

worst OCD attacks. I hit myself and scratched myself, though rarely hard

enough to draw blood. It hurt, of course, but the pain was enough to

override the attack as a whole (believe me, a little physical pain is

nothing compared to a severe OCD attack). As a child and teen I hid all

this from my parents. Kids aren't dumb - they know that admitting to

thoughts is one thing, but admitting to self-injury is a whole other matter.

As an adult I've learned to use pain in a less haphazard fashion. On those

odd occasions when I need to use it to ward off an attack (I'm medicated so

that happens very rarely now) I make sure to do things which are painful,

but not actually injurious. Rubber band snapping on your skin works well

(in fact, I've seen many OCDers do this very thing). Grabbing a hot

steering wheel in the Texas summer can do it, too (I've never been seriously

burned that way, but it sure can smart). I rarely have to do this nowadays,

but once in a blue moon I can use it as a last resort.

Meditation has helped me " redirect " OCD as well, but sometimes it isn't

enough. Mystics in various religions (including Christianity) have

traditionally used pain and physical deprivation as extreme meditative

techniques to learn to shun the world and grow closer to God (or Allah or

YHWH or Krishna or...etc.). The use of pain is a common and effective way

to work oneself into an altered state (or dissociative state) where

stressors and fear and pain just sort of fade into the background.

Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu monks have traditionally used forms of

flagellation and abrasion to reach these states of mind. The Mevlevi Sufi

( " whirling dervishes " ) use controlled spinning to do the same thing

(interestingly enough, I've used spinning to override OCD attacks - it does

work sometimes).

My point here is that self-injury is not ALWAYS a sign of self-loathing or

repressed emotions - it can act at a more primal level as a desperate

last-resort way to simply make an OCD attack stop. That isn't to say that

I'm recommending that kids should scratch and beat and tear at themselves to

their hearts' content - I just thought that I would try to give a little

insight (from a sufferer's perspective) into the why's and wherefore's of

the phenomenon.

-

>This is a subject that is very close to home with us. I'll share just a

>little of what we've heard and learned over the past 6 months. Some OCD

>specialists will say that SIB is not OCD because people with OCD are

>horrified by their thoughts and entirely too anxious to carry out such

>behavior. On the other hand, I've had other OCD specialists indicate that

>this behavior could be a compulsion that helps them to deal with the

>obsessions. It can also be found in people suffering from depression and

>borderline personality disorder.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/01 9:56:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,

English@... writes:

<<

My point here is that self-injury is not ALWAYS a sign of self-loathing or

repressed emotions - it can act at a more primal level as a desperate

last-resort way to simply make an OCD attack stop. That isn't to say that

I'm recommending that kids should scratch and beat and tear at themselves to

their hearts' content - I just thought that I would try to give a little

insight (from a sufferer's perspective) into the why's and wherefore's of

the phenomenon. >>

,

I really appreciate your words here and feel I needed to read them tonight.

Thank you.

:-)

Kandie

Kandie and (8 years)

* My autism website : <A

HREF= " http://www.homestead.com/wholefamily/wholefamily1.html " >Spectrum

Children's Support</A> *

* 's website: <A

HREF= " http://kidsactivities.homestead.com/spage.html " >spage</A>

*

[Guest guest]

-

I agree with you! Self injury can be a sign of abuse, a sign of self

loathing, and can also be a way of making you feel 'something' since

you are feeling 'numb'.

I know that my son Tom self injures for the 'rush'. When he did this

on a regular basis, he would describe this adrenalin rush to me. He

used to punch himself, bang his head against the wall, cut, and shave

until raw various parts of his body. He also would start physical

fights for this same rush. He definatly followed the fight or flight

rule. He went through a stage feeling that he was being punished by

some supreme being - whatever that may be - and that he needed to

punish himself for whatever he must have done.

Today, I rarely see self injurious behaviour in him. He has no

believe system - except to take care of himself first!

wendy in canada

====================================================================

> My point here is that self-injury is not ALWAYS a sign of

self-loathing or repressed emotions - it can act at a more primal

level as a desperate last-resort way to simply make an OCD attack

stop. That isn't to say that I'm recommending that kids should

scratch and beat and tear at themselves to their hearts' content - I

just thought that I would try to give a little insight (from a

sufferer's perspective) into the why's and wherefore's of the

phenomenon. - >

[Guest guest]

- Thanks so much for the uplifting post. I think we all needed to

hear it. Eliza in Wi

Re: Digest Number 915

> Speaking as an OCD sufferer, I can say that there is another reason why

some

> of us do it. Pain can stimulate endorphin release while at the same time

> forcing your attention away from the obsessive thoughts. Pain demands

> attention, and often will " override " obsessive thoughts. This helps

reduce

> the anxiety these thoughts cause. The endorphin rush helps with that,

too.

> As a child and teenager I often used pain to " short-circuit " some of the

> worst OCD attacks. I hit myself and scratched myself, though rarely hard

> enough to draw blood. It hurt, of course, but the pain was enough to

> override the attack as a whole (believe me, a little physical pain is

> nothing compared to a severe OCD attack). As a child and teen I hid all

> this from my parents. Kids aren't dumb - they know that admitting to

> thoughts is one thing, but admitting to self-injury is a whole other

matter.

>

> As an adult I've learned to use pain in a less haphazard fashion. On

those

> odd occasions when I need to use it to ward off an attack (I'm medicated

so

> that happens very rarely now) I make sure to do things which are painful,

> but not actually injurious. Rubber band snapping on your skin works well

> (in fact, I've seen many OCDers do this very thing). Grabbing a hot

> steering wheel in the Texas summer can do it, too (I've never been

seriously

> burned that way, but it sure can smart). I rarely have to do this

nowadays,

> but once in a blue moon I can use it as a last resort.

>

> Meditation has helped me " redirect " OCD as well, but sometimes it isn't

> enough. Mystics in various religions (including Christianity) have

> traditionally used pain and physical deprivation as extreme meditative

> techniques to learn to shun the world and grow closer to God (or Allah or

> YHWH or Krishna or...etc.). The use of pain is a common and effective way

> to work oneself into an altered state (or dissociative state) where

> stressors and fear and pain just sort of fade into the background.

> Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu monks have traditionally used forms of

> flagellation and abrasion to reach these states of mind. The Mevlevi Sufi

> ( " whirling dervishes " ) use controlled spinning to do the same thing

> (interestingly enough, I've used spinning to override OCD attacks - it

does

> work sometimes).

>

> My point here is that self-injury is not ALWAYS a sign of self-loathing or

> repressed emotions - it can act at a more primal level as a desperate

> last-resort way to simply make an OCD attack stop. That isn't to say that

> I'm recommending that kids should scratch and beat and tear at themselves

to

> their hearts' content - I just thought that I would try to give a little

> insight (from a sufferer's perspective) into the why's and wherefore's of

> the phenomenon.

>

> -

>

>

>

>

>

> >This is a subject that is very close to home with us. I'll share just a

> >little of what we've heard and learned over the past 6 months. Some OCD

> >specialists will say that SIB is not OCD because people with OCD are

> >horrified by their thoughts and entirely too anxious to carry out such

> >behavior. On the other hand, I've had other OCD specialists indicate

that

> >this behavior could be a compulsion that helps them to deal with the

> >obsessions. It can also be found in people suffering from depression and

> >borderline personality disorder.

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

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>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Thanks so much for your informative response. You are right it is so

worrying to parent when our kids are involved in SIBs. What I have found

that helps is not to react too strongly to it, to approach it with a

lightness that belies my true feelings. That seems to help Steve the most

when he is doing this. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 11:50 PM 3/7/01 -0000, you wrote:

>Speaking as an OCD sufferer, I can say that there is another reason why some

>of us do it. Pain can stimulate endorphin release while at the same time

>forcing your attention away from the obsessive thoughts. Pain demands

>attention, and often will " override " obsessive thoughts. This helps reduce

>the anxiety these thoughts cause. The endorphin rush helps with that, too.

>As a child and teenager I often used pain to " short-circuit " some of the

>worst OCD attacks. I hit myself and scratched myself, though rarely hard

>enough to draw blood. It hurt, of course, but the pain was enough to

>override the attack as a whole (believe me, a little physical pain is

>nothing compared to a severe OCD attack). As a child and teen I hid all

>this from my parents. Kids aren't dumb - they know that admitting to

>thoughts is one thing, but admitting to self-injury is a whole other matter.

>

>As an adult I've learned to use pain in a less haphazard fashion. On those

>odd occasions when I need to use it to ward off an attack (I'm medicated so

>that happens very rarely now) I make sure to do things which are painful,

>but not actually injurious. Rubber band snapping on your skin works well

>(in fact, I've seen many OCDers do this very thing). Grabbing a hot

>steering wheel in the Texas summer can do it, too (I've never been seriously

>burned that way, but it sure can smart). I rarely have to do this nowadays,

>but once in a blue moon I can use it as a last resort.

>

>Meditation has helped me " redirect " OCD as well, but sometimes it isn't

>enough. Mystics in various religions (including Christianity) have

>traditionally used pain and physical deprivation as extreme meditative

>techniques to learn to shun the world and grow closer to God (or Allah or

>YHWH or Krishna or...etc.). The use of pain is a common and effective way

>to work oneself into an altered state (or dissociative state) where

>stressors and fear and pain just sort of fade into the background.

>Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu monks have traditionally used forms of

>flagellation and abrasion to reach these states of mind. The Mevlevi Sufi

>( " whirling dervishes " ) use controlled spinning to do the same thing

>(interestingly enough, I've used spinning to override OCD attacks - it does

>work sometimes).

>

>My point here is that self-injury is not ALWAYS a sign of self-loathing or

>repressed emotions - it can act at a more primal level as a desperate

>last-resort way to simply make an OCD attack stop. That isn't to say that

>I'm recommending that kids should scratch and beat and tear at themselves to

>their hearts' content - I just thought that I would try to give a little

>insight (from a sufferer's perspective) into the why's and wherefore's of

>the phenomenon.

>

>-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/18/01 7:15:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

bodyforlife writes:

<< Now imagine the taste of those “presents†and you’re there! >>

Hey, not fair. You've ruined my favorite authorized Myoplex Lite chocolate

fudge bar. Now I have to find something else.

[Guest guest]

What is going on with the digest? I am having to download some digests and

it appears on Word Perfect with very hard to read letters......why is this

happening?

[Guest guest]

In einer eMail vom 14.01.2002 22:48:21 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt

gallstones :

>

> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:27:37 EST

> From: gingsong@...

> Subject: Re: I would like to know what the scriptures say about it.

>

> Hi ,

> The site you asked about is hacres.com .This site has changed my view

> on what I put in my mouth.

> Jeanne

>

I remember to have read somewhere in the scriptures some time ago: ......it

is not what you put in your mouth that contaminates you, but rather what

comes out of your mouth....

Has to do with the eternal law of seed and harvest.

Ingo

[Guest guest]

I remember to have read somewhere in the scriptures some time ago: ......it

is not what you put in your mouth that contaminates you, but rather what

comes out of your mouth....

_________________

Yes, jealousies, idolatries, evil reasonings, etc. It's what comes out of

your innermost self that contaminates you (your innermost mind). What goes

in your mouth, as in eating or eating with unwashed hands [as is the case of

the disciples], just comes out you know where.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Anton, Steve hit it on the head.

Steve, Thanks ;-)

I gotta go cut and paste the info on the group buy here, sending another msg

in a min.

-bill

> From: anton.vandellen@...

>Hi Bill, Have you got a website for this stuff? Thanks Anton

> From: " Bray " <steve@...>

>QuikClot is: http://www.z-medica.com/

>TraumaDEX is: http://www.traumadex.com/

>Steve

_________________________________________________________________

MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

[Guest guest]

Hi Debra,

I've been on indocin for about 20 yearsand it has been helpful. I take 75 mg

slow release twice a day and also azulfadine as well as halcion, elavil and

vicodin. The first few years I was on indocin I did have to take meds to

conteract the stomach upset. That fortunately is no longer a problem: it just

went away at some point It is very important to have some food or at least milk

before taking the indocin.

good luck!

Jerry Latimer

[Guest guest]

Dear Jerry,

I don't think I can even chance taking another pill...I got so sick from just

two of them. I had mental confusion from it as well, which was a bit scary

(others noted it as well). My gut still hurts this morning. I'm just curious

what you took to keep your stomach ok when you took it?

Thanks, Debra

[Guest guest]

Hi Mosunshinebaby (great log on!). Sorry it has taken so long to respond. Just now caught up with all the posts!!! Dr. Santora in SLC is her doctor because Dr. D'Astous was out on medical leave when my daughter was scheduled for her first cast. (We were told that Dr. D'Astous would pick her up upon his return, but then they told us that Dr. D'Astous did not have time to pick her up, so Dr. Santora is still going to be our doctor. By the way, Is that true that Dr. D'Astous is not accepting patients???) Anyway my daughter was diagnosed at 13 months with idiopathic infantile scoliosis (I definitely noticed the curve at 9 months but the pediatrician said to wait til her 12 month visit to bring her in- so we lost a bit of time there). Her curve is about 30 degrees (depending on which doctor you ask), and her RVAD was about 29 (again). with the apex at T12 to the left and minimal to minimal

plus rotation. At 14 months she obtained a Kalibus brace which held her at 18 degrees. At 15 1/2 months she had a 36 hour out of brace x-ray which showed no progression- so it appeared the kalibus brace was doing the trick. There was controversy as to whether to get casted between the different doctors at the different sites. We went ahead with it, partly because we didn't get the message from Dr. in time recommending to just keep on with the Kalibus brace. So now Nadia is due for her second cast on March 29 with Dr. Santora. Hope that helps. And again, sorry for the slow response! And I'd love to learn about your little one as well! Best, Abigail Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:14:31

-0000 From: "mosunshinebaby" <mosunshinebaby@...>Subject: Re: Digest Number 914Hi Abigail, thanks for sharing that. Who was your Dr. if you don't mind me asking? Would you mind sharing info. about her such as the age she got her cast on & what type (area & direction) of curve with what degree's (Cobb & RVAD measurements) if you know them. What were they able to get her curve to just out of curiosity, how is she now? If you have a chance to share.. thanks again! **Also, we got that spreadsheet set up under the "Links" section to the left here, the folder is called C.A.S.T. Group Data, you should try and input your daughter's info. if you can for comparisons!>> hi all. my daughter was casted in slc with just a torso cast. so it is possible to get that if they think it's enough. abigail>

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

Hi Abigail,

My daughter Kylie is also a patient of Dr. Santora. He

is wonderful! He's been her ortho since she was a

newborn, she is now 8 1/2 yrs. old.

Kylie is currently at Shriner's undergoing her 3rd

Halo traction. We might still be here when Nadia gets

her 2nd cast, we'd love to meet you both.

--- Abigail Schein <zimmyshine@...> wrote:

> Hi Mosunshinebaby (great log on!). Sorry it has

> taken so long to respond. Just now caught up with

> all the posts!!!

>

> Dr. Santora in SLC is her doctor because Dr.

> D'Astous was out on medical leave when my daughter

> was scheduled for her first cast. (We were told

> that Dr. D'Astous would pick her up upon his return,

> but then they told us that Dr. D'Astous did not have

> time to pick her up, so Dr. Santora is still going

> to be our doctor. By the way, Is that true that Dr.

> D'Astous is not accepting patients???)

>

> Anyway my daughter was diagnosed at 13 months with

> idiopathic infantile scoliosis (I definitely noticed

> the curve at 9 months but the pediatrician said to

> wait til her 12 month visit to bring her in- so we

> lost a bit of time there). Her curve is about 30

> degrees (depending on which doctor you ask), and her

> RVAD was about 29 (again). with the apex at T12 to

> the left and minimal to minimal plus rotation. At

> 14 months she obtained a Kalibus brace which held

> her at 18 degrees. At 15 1/2 months she had a 36

> hour out of brace x-ray which showed no progression-

> so it appeared the kalibus brace was doing the

> trick. There was controversy as to whether to get

> casted between the different doctors at the

> different sites. We went ahead with it, partly

> because we didn't get the message from Dr.

> in time recommending to just keep on with the

> Kalibus brace.

>

> So now Nadia is due for her second cast on March

> 29 with Dr. Santora.

>

> Hope that helps. And again, sorry for the slow

> response!

>

> And I'd love to learn about your little one as

> well!

>

> Best,

> Abigail

>

>

> Message: 6

> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:14:31 -0000

> From: " mosunshinebaby " <mosunshinebaby@...>

> Subject: Re: Digest Number 914

>

> Hi Abigail, thanks for sharing that. Who was your

> Dr. if you don't

> mind me asking? Would you mind sharing info. about

> her such as the

> age she got her cast on & what type (area &

> direction) of curve with

> what degree's (Cobb & RVAD measurements) if you know

> them. What were

> they able to get her curve to just out of curiosity,

> how is she

> now? If you have a chance to share.. thanks again!

>

>

> **Also, we got that spreadsheet set up under the

> " Links " section to

> the left here, the folder is called C.A.S.T. Group

> Data, you should

> try and input your daughter's info. if you can for

> comparisons!

>

>

>

> >

> > hi all. my daughter was casted in slc with just a

> torso cast. so

> it is possible to get that if they think it's

> enough. abigail

> >

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a

> breeze.

__________________________________________________