Re: [RE: [Re: .40 cal gsw to head not need c-spine precau tions???]]

[Guest guest]

Item fps mph mass

..40 cal (185gr) 1000 fps 1395 mph 0.0264 lbs

baseball 132 fps 90 mph 0.3125 lbs

hockey puck 146 fps 100 mph 0.356 lbs

ke = ½ mv2

..40 cal (185gr) 26,400 units o' energy

baseball 5,445 units o' energy

hockey puck 7,588 units o' energy

i feel alot better now. mostimes me thinks i have too much free time (and

anyone who knows me personally can attest to that fact!!!!!)

sources: www.nhl.com www.mbl.com numerous ammo manufacturer pages

jim davis

ff/lp

" Dralle, Steve " wrote:

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But the fall to the floor after being shot? What about the path of the

bullet once it enters the skull?

The way I work, if I cannot rule out the possibilities, I immobilize!

I think you did the right thing. (Of course, with this e-mail and about a

$1.50 you can get a cup of coffee)

Steve Dralle, EMT-P

San , TX

Re: [Re: .40 cal gsw to head not need c-spine

precautions???]

thanks for the input. her point was the a bullet doesn't have the energy to

cause a c-spine energy

yeah right

jim

Craig wrote:

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You did the absolute right thing....there are some nurses that just don't

get

the ems exposure

that they should prior to working in an er....some it wouldn't matter

anyways......for every

100 good caregivers that we know there is always one who could use a little

help in providing

care or understanding care but think they already know it all anyways so

they

won't

listen.......personally....if the nurse questioned me....I would just say

" my

doctor told me

too " because technically he did per protocol....and if she wants to change

anything.....tell

her to sign your report and take over care as she sees fit........I've had

to

do that more

than once and you'd be surprise how quickly those special folks get quiet

and

never question

you and give you a hard time again......I'm not advocating everyone to be a

smart ass all the

time....but sometimes you have too...(or so I've learned while in the

military)...to get your

point across.....but if you find a more constructive way to deal with this

special nursing

person.....go for it....if it works use it......

Jim. EMT-I, 91B18D

james davis wrote:

> i ran a call earlier this year where a person who shot in the head

> with a .40 " hydro-shock " . when the patient was brought into the hospital

> (i'm not naming names but i'll narrow it down by saying it was a level II

> or higher trauma center) the trauma nurse and I got into a " friendly

> discussion " when she asked why the pt had a c-collar,cid and bb in place.

>

> i said " because she was shot in the head " .

>

> i don't really understand her reasoning here... could someone explain it

to

> me. i've been a medic almost 8 years and don't think i'm wrong (at at

least

> THAT wrong).

>

> i working up the kinetic energy involved with this case and gonna figger

> out how much energy that is. the mass (of the bullet) isn't much

> but for use of a better term, " is hauling ass " , and last time i checked:

>

> ke = 1/2 m (v (squared))

>

> she was shot mebbe at a range of 10-15 feet so the round couldn't have

slowed

> down much.

>

> all replies will be very much appreciated be from anyoen from ECA - medic,

> LVN,RN, PHYSICIAN, PHYSICS PROFESSORS,ETC

>

> jim

> ff/lp

> davis787@...

>

> ____________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I dare say that your numbers are off, as are the terms. You're listing

weights, not masses (an important distinction), and I'd believe a baseball

weighs more than a third of a pound. Same for a hockey puck. Your

conclusion is correct, the numbers are wrong.

Mike

Re: [Re: .40 cal gsw to head not need c-spine

precautions???]

thanks for the input. her point was the a bullet doesn't have the energy to

cause a c-spine energy

yeah right

jim

Craig wrote:

> ---------------------------------------------

> Attachment:

> MIME Type: multipart/alternative

> ---------------------------------------------

You did the absolute right thing....there are some nurses that just don't

get

the ems exposure

that they should prior to working in an er....some it wouldn't matter

anyways......for every

100 good caregivers that we know there is always one who could use a little

help in providing

care or understanding care but think they already know it all anyways so

they

won't

listen.......personally....if the nurse questioned me....I would just say

" my

doctor told me

too " because technically he did per protocol....and if she wants to change

anything.....tell

her to sign your report and take over care as she sees fit........I've had

to

do that more

than once and you'd be surprise how quickly those special folks get quiet

and

never question

you and give you a hard time again......I'm not advocating everyone to be a

smart ass all the

time....but sometimes you have too...(or so I've learned while in the

military)...to get your

point across.....but if you find a more constructive way to deal with this

special nursing

person.....go for it....if it works use it......

Jim. EMT-I, 91B18D

james davis wrote:

> i ran a call earlier this year where a person who shot in the head

> with a .40 " hydro-shock " . when the patient was brought into the hospital

> (i'm not naming names but i'll narrow it down by saying it was a level II

> or higher trauma center) the trauma nurse and I got into a " friendly

> discussion " when she asked why the pt had a c-collar,cid and bb in place.

>

> i said " because she was shot in the head " .

>

> i don't really understand her reasoning here... could someone explain it

to

> me. i've been a medic almost 8 years and don't think i'm wrong (at at

least

> THAT wrong).

>

> i working up the kinetic energy involved with this case and gonna figger

> out how much energy that is. the mass (of the bullet) isn't much

> but for use of a better term, " is hauling ass " , and last time i checked:

>

> ke = 1/2 m (v (squared))

>

> she was shot mebbe at a range of 10-15 feet so the round couldn't have

slowed

> down much.

>

> all replies will be very much appreciated be from anyoen from ECA - medic,

> LVN,RN, PHYSICIAN, PHYSICS PROFESSORS,ETC

>

> jim

> ff/lp

> davis787@...

>

> ____________________________________________________________________

> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at

http://webmail.netscape.com.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eLerts

> It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!

> http://click./1/3864/7/_/4981/_/957797424/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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