Guest guest Posted March 27, 1999 Report Share Posted March 27, 1999 Hi Lu: I also have PTSD. I'd be interested in what your therapist had to say about stopping substance abuse. Any reading materials? thanks, GP ---------- From: LuanneP@...[sMTP:LuanneP@...] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 12:46 PM To: 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: AA over RR? I'm glad to hear RR worked for you. I didn't like it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know though. That's only my opinion. No matter what, we have to find out the 'underlying cause' as to why we drank, and there is one, I don't care what anyone says. Upon finding out MY reasons for being the drunk/druggie that I was 8 years ago, I was able to face and deal with my demons. We all got 'em. Some of us have a harder time admitting it and dealing with them. Wally, yes I do have a competent therapist. Mostly what I work on is the triggers of my PTSD. Also, learning to deal with the rage, isolation, and all the other 'fun things' that go along with it. Best, Lu jovian f. wrote: > > Why do YOU drink? > Why do others drink? To get away from the present anxiety, fear, > loneliness, to socialize....., all with the use of something PLEASURABLE. > Yes? It feels good. In AA they deny that people get pleasure from > substances. They focus only on the bad. But you had many pleasurable > experiences while you were drinking or drugging. You remember the good > times. The brain is wired for you to do so. > > Note the structural model of the brain. Read Time Magazine May 5, 1998. > It works like this. Dopamine is released when we are doing something > pleasurable like dancing, sex, eating, drugs and alcohol. Feels good so we > do it again and become habituated to it. Our brain remembers pleasurable > experience. It must in order to suckle, eat, procreate. Drugs and alcohol > get mixed in with those needs as illusionary survival needs. You think, > feel you need the substance in order to survive. Addiction lies in the > subcortical brain where these primative desires maintain the body. The part > that is addicted is the part that continues to monitor your body when you > are asleep. This is the autonomic nervous sytem. > > In RR we simply RECOGNIZE the primitive brain secreting an appetite for > drugs or alcohol and detach. IT goes " growl " , feed me, I want/need > substance. Give now. " It has no care for anything but intoxication. You > do. The planning neocortex which is the seat of conscious planning and > inhibition dominates the appetites we have. We see an excellent looking bod > on the bus and go " ummmm " but we immediately recognize that jumping that > body is not acceptable and we inhibit. It happens in seconds. The planning > brain chooses activities to participate in. We can say yes or no to urges. > No sense to discuss the pros and cons with the appetite especially one > which has caused you so much trouble. Since you can't reason with desire > you learn techniques to detach from it. Aggressive listening for instance: > " Okay desire I feel you. Tell me one GOOD reason I should go back and use, " > It can't come up with any good reason other than the sensation given by > the substance. > Desire simply is. You do decide whether to use your voluntary muscles to > procur the substance. > Decide where you will go, how much you will pay, where you will partake. > You decide to move. Being aware of all the movements and choices you make > to the moment of taking the intoxicant puts you in the driver's seat. What > made it seem reasonable to use again. Was it desire or reason? > > If you have decided you want to quit then don't change your mind. There's > the agony, the limbo. > Anyone can stop moving toward the substance and can reaffirm the choice to > quit until the moment they give up deciding to stop. Sensibility leads up > to to taking care of problems in your life. Abdication toward some mystical > creation leaves it pretty much up in the air as to what will happen next. > You are in the driver's seat with your actions afterall. > > RR believes in the integrity of formerly addicted and addicted people to > make choices and to have them stick. > > Carol > > > > >I have seen. In fact, I would rather go to AA, than RR. <sigh> RR > >seems to promote and condone relapses. Still, the folks who attend are > >NOT getting at what the real problem is, as to why they drink. > > > > > >At 07:19 AM 3/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > >>Thanks Ben, for the explanation about the abbreviations. Just was > >>wondering if all this group did was promote self-help books, which is > >>what I seem to read a lot of on here. > >> > >>As for Rational Recovery...been there, done that. Too many relapses, as > >>I have seen. In fact, I would rather go to AA, than RR. <sigh> RR > >>seems to promote and condone relapses. Still, the folks who attend are > >>NOT getting at what the real problem is, as to why they drink. > >> > >>I'm in therapy and it has truly been a God-send for me. > >> > >>Sincerely, > >>Luanne > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>Internet FileZone: Always FREE! > >>Instantly store & access your valuable PC files on the net, > >>from any Web browser. http://offers./click/235/0 > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 1999 Report Share Posted April 2, 1999 The underlying cause is that it feels good. People are willing to sacrifice their personal welfare for that. It's bad judgement. Ptsd, I have had and have (the story's pretty regular) but it's not why anyone drinks. It feels good in good times and bad. To celebrate and to salve. To release hormone and dopamine. To not take responsibility for the consequences. To drink to drink. To drug to drug. Though it may seem so at the time. PTSD Women in Bosnia will grieve, will no longer trust the authorities but almost all will process the horror and focus on getting their families settled and caring about what they can care about. A therapist can walk you through the horror and hold your hand as you feel the feelings you don't want to feel. But happy or sad the desire to feel what felt so good will return. It is what you do with it when it comes on that counts. We know now that rage begets rage. The psychologists used to say exorcise it by yelling, spitting, hitting an object, running but the best thing is to count to one hundred. The idea of doing this is maddening at first expecially when you aren't used to containing yourself expression. It takes time to adjust to holding yourself back but it works. Isolation isn't hard to deal with. Cheerfully look forward to be involved in community center, swimming pool, drama, sports, pottery, whatever you choose and you will meet nice people. Just enjoy yourself and don't put the pressure on others and yourself. They will gravitate given enough space and are attracted to nice people. Care, Carol At 01:45 PM 3/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Lu: > >I also have PTSD. I'd be interested in what your therapist had to say about stopping substance abuse. Any reading materials? >thanks, >GP > >---------- >From: LuanneP@...[sMTP:LuanneP@...] >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 12:46 PM >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: AA over RR? > >I'm glad to hear RR worked for you. I didn't like it and wouldn't >recommend it to anyone I know though. That's only my opinion. > >No matter what, we have to find out the 'underlying cause' as to why we >drank, and there is one, I don't care what anyone says. Upon finding >out MY reasons for being the drunk/druggie that I was 8 years ago, I was >able to face and deal with my demons. We all got 'em. Some of us have >a harder time admitting it and dealing with them. > >Wally, yes I do have a competent therapist. Mostly what I work on is >the triggers of my PTSD. Also, learning to deal with the rage, >isolation, and all the other 'fun things' that go along with it. > >Best, >Lu > > > >jovian f. wrote: >> >> Why do YOU drink? >> Why do others drink? To get away from the present anxiety, fear, >> loneliness, to socialize....., all with the use of something PLEASURABLE. >> Yes? It feels good. In AA they deny that people get pleasure from >> substances. They focus only on the bad. But you had many pleasurable >> experiences while you were drinking or drugging. You remember the good >> times. The brain is wired for you to do so. >> >> Note the structural model of the brain. Read Time Magazine May 5, 1998. >> It works like this. Dopamine is released when we are doing something >> pleasurable like dancing, sex, eating, drugs and alcohol. Feels good so we >> do it again and become habituated to it. Our brain remembers pleasurable >> experience. It must in order to suckle, eat, procreate. Drugs and alcohol >> get mixed in with those needs as illusionary survival needs. You think, >> feel you need the substance in order to survive. Addiction lies in the >> subcortical brain where these primative desires maintain the body. The part >> that is addicted is the part that continues to monitor your body when you >> are asleep. This is the autonomic nervous sytem. >> >> In RR we simply RECOGNIZE the primitive brain secreting an appetite for >> drugs or alcohol and detach. IT goes " growl " , feed me, I want/need >> substance. Give now. " It has no care for anything but intoxication. You >> do. The planning neocortex which is the seat of conscious planning and >> inhibition dominates the appetites we have. We see an excellent looking bod >> on the bus and go " ummmm " but we immediately recognize that jumping that >> body is not acceptable and we inhibit. It happens in seconds. The planning >> brain chooses activities to participate in. We can say yes or no to urges. >> No sense to discuss the pros and cons with the appetite especially one >> which has caused you so much trouble. Since you can't reason with desire >> you learn techniques to detach from it. Aggressive listening for instance: >> " Okay desire I feel you. Tell me one GOOD reason I should go back and use, " >> It can't come up with any good reason other than the sensation given by >> the substance. >> Desire simply is. You do decide whether to use your voluntary muscles to >> procur the substance. >> Decide where you will go, how much you will pay, where you will partake. >> You decide to move. Being aware of all the movements and choices you make >> to the moment of taking the intoxicant puts you in the driver's seat. What >> made it seem reasonable to use again. Was it desire or reason? >> >> If you have decided you want to quit then don't change your mind. There's >> the agony, the limbo. >> Anyone can stop moving toward the substance and can reaffirm the choice to >> quit until the moment they give up deciding to stop. Sensibility leads up >> to to taking care of problems in your life. Abdication toward some mystical >> creation leaves it pretty much up in the air as to what will happen next. >> You are in the driver's seat with your actions afterall. >> >> RR believes in the integrity of formerly addicted and addicted people to >> make choices and to have them stick. >> >> Carol >> >> >> >> >I have seen. In fact, I would rather go to AA, than RR. <sigh> RR >> >seems to promote and condone relapses. Still, the folks who attend are >> >NOT getting at what the real problem is, as to why they drink. >> > >> > >> >At 07:19 AM 3/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >>Thanks Ben, for the explanation about the abbreviations. Just was >> >>wondering if all this group did was promote self-help books, which is >> >>what I seem to read a lot of on here. >> >> >> >>As for Rational Recovery...been there, done that. Too many relapses, as >> >>I have seen. In fact, I would rather go to AA, than RR. <sigh> RR >> >>seems to promote and condone relapses. Still, the folks who attend are >> >>NOT getting at what the real problem is, as to why they drink. >> >> >> >>I'm in therapy and it has truly been a God-send for me. >> >> >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Luanne >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>Internet FileZone: Always FREE! >> >>Instantly store & access your valuable PC files on the net, >> >>from any Web browser. http://offers./click/235/0 >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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