(no subject)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/1998 12:50:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

awatt04@... writes:

> My only concern abt your

> post is that no-one is suggesting keeping XA's out who are thinking abt

> breaking free - it's those who only have an agenda of destroying what we

> are trying to do here that we need to worry abt.

>

> Pete

And just how do you propose to differentiate? Is there some sort of official

form that prospective participants in this forum should be required to fill

out?

Perhaps if some steppers that are not actively attacking members in this

forum, read what some of the participants here have to say they may develop

some empathy. This in the long run may prove useful. I know that there are

people here who have had horrendous experiences. My indoctrination into 12

step recovery was no friggin' picnic, which some of you know from reading what

little I have written on my treatment experience on arf12s.

I was deeply involved in NA for just over 10 years; I regret some of the

things that I turned around and did to others that I learned as a result of

indoctrination and having been treated this way myself. I have been away from

NA for well over a year now. I don't agree that the 12 steps are the only way

to recovery. Personally, I agree with very little that the steps have to

offer, even though I was once a proponent. My breaking away from NA has taken

a period of years to occur with a lot of self-doubt and ocassional returns to

thinking " if only I went to more meetings, " if only I worked the steps

better, " etc. I began to find that I was not the only one to have ever

experienced this last year on the alt. hierarchy of Usenet. I struggle with

some of the bullshit that goes on there, and sometimes I can't tell one side

from the other, the name calling gets so pronounced. Still, I believe that

there are people who are " steppers " who are not such flaming assholes. IMO, to

paint all steppers as zealots that are out to get those who speak out against

12 step dogma is just as dogmatic as what we condemn.

The way you talk, if I had come to this list in the confusion I felt last

year, I would not have been welcome. My first contact with Ken was a sort of a

flame--no, I am downplaying what I felt at the time. It really was a flame,

wasn't it, Ken? It wasn't that I disagreed with what he presented at that

time. Actually, I was very much in agreement. It was his presentation that

offended me at that time. He challenged stuff that my whole life was wrapped

up in. It was stuff that needed challenging, and I needed to hear. It helped

me a great deal, but dogma doesn't die easy. I do my own thinking about

recovery and what I think about it now. I can't say that is the case from the

onset of my recovery. I don't think that everyone in NA/AA is as entrenched in

the dogma as I was....I was a service junkie and the whole nine yards--hard

core NA as some might say. Being a recovering addict in NA had become my whole

identity and I was slowly getting real fucked up from not being able to

reconcile my personal beliefs that were emerging with the dogma of the program

that surrounded me and had become my life. I am glad that I was able to get

the information and support I needed in making a difficult transition before

you all became so exclusive that I, too, would have been excluded.

I think it is wrong to exclude someone from this list before they have done

anything _on the list_ to merit it. I am really angry that this has happened

regardless of what a jerk that person has been elsewhere. It pisses me off

when I hear someone like Gold say that his delurking has been met with

antagonistic email from members here. With this in mind I figure that it might

be a good idea if I just unsub before I say something hurtful to people here.

It is not my intention to hurt people with what I have thus far, so rather

than go on about this shit which I think is nothing more than making mountains

out of molehills it is probably best that I leave.

Take Care....and try to keep those open minds(sarcasm intended)

Bette

------------------------------------------------------------------------