Re: angelina

[Guest guest]

At 11:28 AM 2/16/99 PST, you wrote:

>Hi Angelina.Congratulations on leaving the cult after 10 years.That

>takes a lot of courage. How about giving yourself an " 18-months free

>from the cult " medallion. I really hope you don't go back there.Do you

>have anti-AA books handy to reaffirm your decision, like Bufe

>and Ken Ragge, etc? (not an advertisement for them,just a suggestion to

>be able to withstand the pressure from AA members. Once they know

>you have negative views to share on AA they might even stay away from

>you out of fear, which I find makes things a lot easier.

>I went in at 22 and left on my 8 yr day 1 and a half years ago too.

>Cool. I hope I haven't been too advicey. It sounds a bit scary to me

>your situation that's all. Don't let guilt trips drag you back!I'm very

>interested to hear what someone with your amount of time has to

>say about deprogramming. Oh, I have been too advicey I'm sorry. Where

>in the hell would I pick up a bad habit like that I wonder.

Just a quick response to a couple of points there. It is a very, very

useful thing to have a few " anti-AA " books to hand. The weight of all the

programming and religious contamination that someone can absorb during a

few years' attendance at 12 step meetings can be considerable, and if a

person already had some self-defeating beliefs that the AA philosphy tunes

into, such as self-hatred, lack of self-confidence, doubt in ones' ability

to think for oneself and doubt in ones own judgement, then the residual 12

step conditioning can remain undermining you (or whoever) for a long time.

It is very very useful to have some printed reference material available

that cogently argues why that 12 step philosophy is harmful, undermining,

and unnecessary. And it is useful to have the tools to deprogram yourself,

which a lot of the alternative books help with in one way or another. I

think its really okay to say these books are very useful to have around the

place.

Interesting thought- my 12 step free time seems to have become at least

asant to me than my sober time. In April I'll have eight years free of 12

step meetings, sponsors, and rigmarole. I'll be a 12 step free oldtimer I

suppose, and will be allowed to sit at the back of the room nodding and

mumbling and shouting at new people to " get a sponsor " . Oh woops, that's

the other program, isn't it...

Joe Berenbaum

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

At 12:22 AM 2/17/99 +0000, I wrote:

>Interesting thought- my 12 step free time seems to have become at least

>asant to me than my sober time. In April I'll have eight years free of 12

>step meetings, sponsors, and rigmarole. I'll be a 12 step free oldtimer I

>suppose

Yes this is all very well but my arithmetic (or logic) was way out. Yes I

haven't been to a 12 step meeting for almost 8 years, but I didn't get the

stuff out of my system for a few years after that. As recently as about

three years ago I was still trying, albeit in a much more relaxed way, to

utilise certain aspects of 12 step philosohpy in my life. It wasn't until I

found real alternatives on the net that I saw I could just drop the whole

damm thing, ALL of it, I didn't need ANY of it, none of it was even true

(amazing as that was to discover). I just wanted to correct my earlier

innacuracy. So I'm not really a 12 step free oldtimer at all. More like

three years of real freedom from disempowering and useless

addiction-as-a-disease philiosophies.

Although if someone gives me a silver medallion with " VIII years, no 12

step meetings " on one side, and " To thine own self be true, yes, really " on

the reverse, I wouldn't complain.

Joe Berenbaum

------------------------------------------------------------------------