Re: pain after gallbladder..Dale...

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<<<Dale,

You said something in this reply that caused me to ask a question.

You said without the gb the bile will drip straight into the

intestine. This is true. But then you said without the gb the liver

will not get a signal from the liver to stop producing bile. This

suggests that the gb signals the liver to stop producing bile when it

is full. You did say that it 'seems' to function this way.

The question is...and I was under this assumption...that even with a

gb full, the liver will still produce bile and drain the excess into

the intestine. In other words, the gb reservoir, is only an aide to

store bile but does not control the amount of production and drainage

of bile. Is this correct? Or do you have some link to document this

action?

Thanks for your post. It was great.

Be health.

Barry. >>>>>>>>>

Barry;

I'm glad you noticed that point. This is a bit of research of which I've

been trying to solidify regarding the removal of the gallbladder and the

gallbladder's part in the synergistics of digestion, besides its being a

storage facility, which we know it does more than just store the bile. If

the gallbladder just stored the bile without it changing while in the sac

that would then mean that it is just a storage facility, but in the case of

bile stored in the gallbladder it becomes more concentrated by the removal

of a component that is present as bile deposited directly from the liver to

the intestines. It receives signals and therefore must also transmit signals

as to what it has available to the synergistics of digestion.

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual_home/sec9/99.htm

I'm now of the opinion that the liver gets signals from the gallbladder and

tells it when it's full, and then the liver will just start storing the

other bile in the biliary cells or slow its production. This doesn't mean

that it quits producing

the bile it just means that it will not keep letting it progress to the

intestines as it had been doing while the gallbladder was filling. Keeping

in mind that Dr. requests a relatively short fast as a means to build

the supply so there is more pressure available to push out the thicker bile

and any potential stones when doing a liver and gallbladder flush.

Just consider some of the things that occur when someone fasts and the

toxins are then released by other means besides the liver bile system, other

means may be the skin or even urine. If the liver was, in the case of a

faster, still producing the same amounts of bile and releasing it into the

intestines then a faster would tend to continue to have diarrhea or some

other bowel discomfort from the process of fasting that usually really is

nothing more than the initial hunger pains. I also have another theory as to

the use of a fast to stop what is known the phantom limb syndrome regarding

a removed gallbladder.

There are a lot of automatic mechanisms in the body, and I can't help but to

feel the filled gallbladder signal is just one of them, as many who have

their gallbladder removed suffer with diarrhea or some other digestive

problems even though they usually can now eat fatty foods again, and may

actually be desirable for them to do so to contend with the constant flow of

bile

from the liver. However, I suggest it be of the good fats available from

fruits, vegetables, nuts and supplements and that there also be plenty of

soluble and insoluble fiber available too.

Diarrhea is a common method for the liver to dump toxins and it will do it

when you get the flu, get poisoned, eat bad food, or even when doing an

enema or have a colonic done. Of course the later is preferred to the

former,

as that is under your control and not just the body attempting to get out

potentially deadly toxins.

http://www.freep.com/news/mich/qwarn19.htm

http://www.epi.hss.state.ak.us/bulletins/docs/b1998_17.htm

http://health.discovery.com/diseasesandcond/encyclopedia/603.html

One last though regarding the loss of the gallbladder and signaling.

Consider a condition that a person feels who has lost a limb called the

Phantom Limb. This limb will often either itch or feel like it is being

touched. I'm of the belief that there is the potential of the other body

parts having this feeling too, but am at a loss to find studies related to

that. I think the liver still sees the gallbladder as there and therefore

keeps trying to fill it until the signal comes to back-off production. Just

check the statistics regarding the phantom limb syndrome and I think you'll

see what I mean.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro00/web1/Shaw.html

It may be possible for those suffering with diarrhea from a removed

gallbladder to try fasting and see if that doesn't actually send another

type of signal to the liver to stop producing the extra bile until it gets a

signal from the digestive tract to provide the bile for fat breakdown.

Sorry, but since I still have a gallbladder I can't do an experiment on

myself to test this theory. This would simply be an attempt to recondition

the signaling process that happens naturally to see a new way of providing

the needed bile to the intestines.

So, let the reasoning and research continue. .

Dale

[Guest guest]

Dale,

You said something in this reply that caused me to ask a question.

You said without the gb the bile will drip straight into the

intestine. This is true. But then you said without the gb the liver

will not get a signal from the liver to stop producing bile. This

suggests that the gb signals the liver to stop producing bile when it

is full. You did say that it 'seems' to function this way.

The question is...and I was under this assumption...that even with a

gb full, the liver will still produce bile and drain the excess into

the intestine. In other words, the gb reservior, is only an aide to

store bile but does not control the amount of production and drainage

of bile. Is this correct? Or do you have some link to document this

action?

Thanks for your post. It was great.

Be health.

Barry.

> >>>>>>>>>>.I had an attack two days ago that was exactly like the

attacks I

> had

> before the surgery. How can I have gallbladder attacks with no

> gallbladder? What is it? If anyone has any help so it won't happen

> again I would really appreciate it. I've done 4 flushes, I'm 5

> months pregnant and will do one while pregnant if it will help.

> Thanks, Heidi<<<<<<<<<<<

>

> This is not really all that uncommon of a situation for people who

have had

> their gallbladder removed. The removal of the gallbladder really

doesn't

> get to the root of the problem of which caused the gallbladder to

have a

> problem in the first place. It is looked upon as just a useful

storage sack

> for a concentrated bile of which the liver is providing. The liver

is often

> overlooked by most doctors as the organ from which the pain that

individuals

> are

> experiencing is coming during a gallbladder attack. They see it as

> convenient to remove it but, then too, some people, really,,,,,,

suffer

> after a removal of the gallbladder;

> http://www.integritytech.com/gall.html

>

> My worst gallbladder attack wasn't even a gallbladder attack, but

had the

> same symptoms excepting I didn't have any stones according to the

ultrasound

> that was done! I found out my problem occurred because I wasn't

getting

> enough of the right Essential Fatty Acids for my liver's good

health. I had

> stopped eating all foods containing any fat and this in turn caused

my liver

> to be damaged by that failure. The reason I avoided taking in fats

is

> because I was trying to keep from having another gallbladder

attack. Go

> figure! I felt like it was dammed if you do and dammed if you don't!

>

> I found out after reading Dr. Cabot's " The Liver Cleansing Diet "

that the

> best thing you can do for your liver, which could be fatty, and the

> problem you're feeling could be because of that or bile stones in

the liver,

> is to feed it correctly. When the liver is fed the right foods it

will start

> working the way it's suppose to do and will help it clear out the

fats from

> the body and from the liver too, if it is also fatty.

>

> It is very important to also realize that with the gallbladder

removed that

> the liver must be given greater care and consideration. A lot of

people can

> have the gallbladder removed and not really have to care for it as

much as

> some others. However, for those who's digestive system has been

compromised

> by the loss of this important organ it becomes necessary to

understand what

> foods are going to help the liver deal with what it does in

producing around

> a quart or two of bile. This bile needs to have someplace to go

because it

> appears that it doesn't stop flowing in some without the regulating

capacity

> of the gallbladder telling it to stop for a time. It appears that

it just

> keeps dripping out bile because there is no signal telling the

liver to stop

> producing it.

>

> The end result for a lot of people is that they tend to suffer with

diarrhea

> and other intestinal pain. The best way to deal with this is to

make sure

> that food that is high in fiber is eaten throughout the day and not

just

> the normal three times a day that we've become accustom. It would

also help

> to have more essential fatty acids being obtained by quality oils,

which can

> be obtained from vegetables and nuts as well as the various

supplements.

> This gives the bile something to emulsify but being a better fat it

can be

> used by the liver to make a better bile to get out the other bad

fats that

> have been stored there.

>

> The intake of soluble and insoluble fiber will certainly help in

dealing

> with the continuous flow of bile from the liver. The soluble fiber

will

> absorb the

> bile and it can then be transported from the body much quicker.

>

> This website has some useful information on the liver and my help

you in

> seeing some things to do to deal with your situation.

> http://www.lifebalm.com/ailments/liver.html

>

> Dale

[Guest guest]

>>that even with a

gb full, the liver will still produce bile and drain the excess into

the intestine. In other words, the gb reservior, is only an aide to

store bile but does not control the amount of production and drainage

of bile. <<

This is my understanding also, and this is how it was explained to me by a

doctor.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

Today is the 6 month anniversary of my GB surgery. I've been looking to see

what, if any, noticable physical changes there have been that could be related

to no longer having my GB. You mentioned that some people still have digestive

problems like diarrhea. Prior to doing the liver cleanse, I'd had problems with

gas. It subsided after doing 2 cleanses. Now I find that there is one change

that most likely is related to my GB removal. I have no trouble consuming a

moderate amount of fat in my diet, but on days that I overdo it, and eat a lot

of fat (and it's most likely the wrong kind of fat), I notice that I do have gas

and sometimes experience gas pain. It's definitely not debilitating, just mildly

irritating. That's the extent of what I've noticed as a change. My bowel

movements are regular as far as I can tell, and my weight has resumed its

pre-surgery amount (I'm 5'5 " and weigh 132 lbs.). I have been eating well

though, including fresh veggie and fruit juices in my diet. I'm not currently

taking any supplements, although I've considered trying the Beta product that is

good for people who've had their GB removed. These are just some thoughts I

felt led to post as I've not experienced diarrhea or any other severe digestive

problem which I may have had if I'd not done the liver cleanse, as after surgery

I was having moderate digestive problems(gas, and gas pain).

Adrienne

Dale <Da_@...> wrote: There are a lot of automatic

mechanisms in the body, and I can't help but to

feel the filled gallbladder signal is just one of them, as many who have

their gallbladder removed suffer with diarrhea or some other digestive

problems even though they usually can now eat fatty foods again, and may

actually be desirable for them to do so to contend with the constant flow of

bile

from the liver. However, I suggest it be of the good fats available from

fruits, vegetables, nuts and supplements and that there also be plenty of

soluble and insoluble fiber available too.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Dale,

Thanks for your reply. The research and reasoning will definitely

have to continue on this subject. By what you've told me so far, I am

not fully convinced of the signaling in these particular organs. The

closest argument for the case is that the body does have a lot of

internal, natural signaling processes going on because of the wonders

of the human body that God has created. We can not 'prove' nor

explain a lot of these wonder signals. That is convincing enough on

it's own and has been scientifically verified with many organs. But

as far as the liver/gb signaling, it hasn't been substanciated enough

yet.

In your first paragraph, the component that you are referring to that

is removed while bile sits waiting in the gallbladder is called

water. Water is absorbed from the bile by the gallbladder while it

sits in the gb waiting to extract out. This is why stagnated bile in

a sluggish gallbladder will thicken and create what we know as

gallstones.

In your second paragraph about fasting and the liver continuing to

produce bile, you are correct in some ways. I look at it in a

slightly different way. Less or no food in, there will be less

produced without the ingredients. Triggering is not really a function

there. Less food produces less ingredients for bile production. Less

water, less cholesterol. The body will take from itself for a while

but will soon stop production without the fuel to make it with. This

is true for all bodily fluids, even blood.

Phantom Limb Syndrome is very true but is not evidential in proving

this function. Theorizing perhaps, but this can be done to try and

sway the argument to any side of a non-factual cause. Could go either

way.

To suggest that the gallbladder signals the liver on and off would be

to romantisize the gallbladder into the description of a primary

bodily organ equal in function to the liver in some sorts.

Without the gallbladder signaling would suggest that the gallbladder

is only a non-essential, or secondary organ that the body can

function fairly well without. This is the argument of the medical

field based on the research that has been done on the function of the

liver and gallbladder within the digestive system.

All the information I have read to date seems to support the 'said'

fact that the gallbladder is a secondary organ used to aide the

digestive process. The bile is stored there as an extra amount to be

released by hormonal responses caused by the injestion of foods that

needs the bile to help absorb the fats, etc. Once the gallbladder is

full, it will (even itself) drain off excess bile as the muscle

contracts and relaxes even while it waits to be eliminated. Also, the

liver that is still producing the bile will continue to slowly

release the bile that the liver does not want in it's organ. Only

will bile that is unhealthy, or a fatty liver that is sluggish and

holding healthy bile, will remain within the organ to cause potential

stones within the liver ducts. In other words, if the liver is

functioning correctly, and the bile is healthy, the bile will

continue to drip out past the full gallbladder and no kind of

signaling will allow the healthy bile to hang around in the liver to

cause a potential problem. This is only my understanding of the

function.

The experiment of fasting without a gallbladder to record the

production of bile and the causes of diarrhea would have to contain

many other factors to correctly record the results. Too many other

factors come into play with that type of experimentation. Water-

retention is only one factor among many.

Over-all, thank you for your opinion on this matter. Researching,

reasoning, etc is always great to do. The many signaling responses of

the human body is now my source of new research to try and find more

substancial data on this process.

Thanks again.

Barry.

> <<<<<<<<Dale,

>

> You said something in this reply that caused me to ask a question.

> You said without the gb the bile will drip straight into the

> intestine. This is true. But then you said without the gb the liver

> will not get a signal from the liver to stop producing bile. This

> suggests that the gb signals the liver to stop producing bile when

it

> is full. You did say that it 'seems' to function this way.

>

> The question is...and I was under this assumption...that even with a

> gb full, the liver will still produce bile and drain the excess into

> the intestine. In other words, the gb reservoir, is only an aide to

> store bile but does not control the amount of production and

drainage

> of bile. Is this correct? Or do you have some link to document this

> action?

>

> Thanks for your post. It was great.

> Be health.

> Barry. >>>>>>>>>

>

> Barry;

>

> I'm glad you noticed that point. This is a bit of research of which

I've

> been trying to solidify regarding the removal of the gallbladder

and the

> gallbladder's part in the synergistics of digestion, besides its

being a

> storage facility, which we know it does more than just store the

bile. If

> the gallbladder just stored the bile without it changing while in

the sac

> that would then mean that it is just a storage facility, but in the

case of

> bile stored in the gallbladder it becomes more concentrated by the

removal

> of a component that is present as bile deposited directly from the

liver to

> the intestines. It receives signals and therefore must also

transmit signals

> as to what it has available to the synergistics of digestion.

> http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual_home/sec9/99.htm

>

> I'm now of the opinion that the liver gets signals from the

gallbladder and

> tells it when it's full, and then the liver will just start storing

the

> other bile in the biliary cells or slow its production. This

doesn't mean

> that it quits producing

> the bile it just means that it will not keep letting it progress to

the

> intestines as it had been doing while the gallbladder was filling.

Keeping

> in mind that Dr. requests a relatively short fast as a means

to build

> the supply so there is more pressure available to push out the

thicker bile

> and any potential stones when doing a liver and gallbladder flush.

>

> Just consider some of the things that occur when someone fasts and

the

> toxins are then released by other means besides the liver bile

system, other

> means may be the skin or even urine. If the liver was, in the case

of a

> faster, still producing the same amounts of bile and releasing it

into the

> intestines then a faster would tend to continue to have diarrhea or

some

> other bowel discomfort from the process of fasting that usually

really is

> nothing more than the initial hunger pains. I also have another

theory as to

> the use of a fast to stop what is known the phantom limb syndrome

regarding

> a removed gallbladder.

>

>

> There are a lot of automatic mechanisms in the body, and I can't

help but to

> feel the filled gallbladder signal is just one of them, as many who

have

> their gallbladder removed suffer with diarrhea or some other

digestive

> problems even though they usually can now eat fatty foods again,

and may

> actually be desirable for them to do so to contend with the

constant flow of

> bile

> from the liver. However, I suggest it be of the good fats available

from

> fruits, vegetables, nuts and supplements and that there also be

plenty of

> soluble and insoluble fiber available too.

>

> Diarrhea is a common method for the liver to dump toxins and it

will do it

> when you get the flu, get poisoned, eat bad food, or even when

doing an

> enema or have a colonic done. Of course the later is preferred to

the

> former,

> as that is under your control and not just the body attempting to

get out

> potentially deadly toxins.

> http://www.freep.com/news/mich/qwarn19.htm

> http://www.epi.hss.state.ak.us/bulletins/docs/b1998_17.htm

> http://health.discovery.com/diseasesandcond/encyclopedia/603.html

>

> One last though regarding the loss of the gallbladder and signaling.

> Consider a condition that a person feels who has lost a limb called

the

> Phantom Limb. This limb will often either itch or feel like it is

being

> touched. I'm of the belief that there is the potential of the other

body

> parts having this feeling too, but am at a loss to find studies

related to

> that. I think the liver still sees the gallbladder as there and

therefore

> keeps trying to fill it until the signal comes to back-off

production. Just

> check the statistics regarding the phantom limb syndrome and I

think you'll

> see what I mean.

> http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro00/web1/Shaw.html

>

> It may be possible for those suffering with diarrhea from a removed

> gallbladder to try fasting and see if that doesn't actually send

another

> type of signal to the liver to stop producing the extra bile until

it gets a

> signal from the digestive tract to provide the bile for fat

breakdown.

> Sorry, but since I still have a gallbladder I can't do an

experiment on

> myself to test this theory. This would simply be an attempt to

recondition

> the signaling process that happens naturally to see a new way of

providing

> the needed bile to the intestines.

>

> So, let the reasoning and research continue. .

>

> Dale

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

Believe it or not, you are in the majority. Only around 5% of the

people who have had gallbladder surgery have problems with diarrhea,

constipation, gas, etc. Anyone (even with a gb) who eats an excess

amount of the wrong fats could experience the same types of problems

as someone without a gallbladder. Only now, the stones may form in

the liver vs. the gallbladder. Or, if you are of the camp that

believes the bile will never form stones within the liver (of the

harder calcium type) then a sluggish, poor health liver can create

many other problems because of a bad diet as well. Diet seems to be

the key with or without a gallbladder. Also, after surgery, a body

will have to readjust over a period of a few weeks/months but will

soon function without it by miraculously adjusting the body to

perform without it. Cholesterol levels may go up for a while and then

will later readjust itself to normal levels again. Bile production

and flow will adjust to the change and try to function to it's best

ability without the aide of the gallbladder reservoir.

My father, grandfather, grandmother, and friends, have lived many

years without their gallbladders and have all told me that there may

always (or in most cases) be a time of adjustment for the body to

change it's procees to function normal without it. My father has told

me that he sometimes has diarrhea but usually because he has gorged

too much on fatty foods that would cause any living human to sleep

restlessly. :-) All the people I have talked too about living without

the gallbladder have said exactly what you have posted.

Be healthy.

Barry.

There are a lot of

automatic mechanisms in the body, and I can't help but to

> feel the filled gallbladder signal is just one of them, as many who

have

> their gallbladder removed suffer with diarrhea or some other

digestive

> problems even though they usually can now eat fatty foods again,

and may

> actually be desirable for them to do so to contend with the

constant flow of

> bile

> from the liver. However, I suggest it be of the good fats available

from

> fruits, vegetables, nuts and supplements and that there also be

plenty of

> soluble and insoluble fiber available too.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Barry;

I can appreciate the fact that there is no substantiated information

regarding the gallbladder being as substantive an organ as the liver, heart,

lungs, skin, pancreas, spleen, small intestines, large intestines, has ever

been established. The fact of the matter is that there is nothing supporting

my theorized contention of gallbladder and liver interplay of signals, I

know that. It is just a theory I've only recently thought about after

considering the situation of what happens with a person who has an amputated

limb, and has the symptom of the phantom limb. This is a question of which

would

have to be answered by someone more knowledgeable than myself and who either

has done the research or knows of someone that has done this type of

research. I would simply like to find out if it has in fact been done. The

question simply sets up a reason for a thesis or dissertation containing

facts supporting or disproving the question.

I can also appreciate the romantics of believing the gallbladder to have a

greater part to play in the interplay between the liver and the digestive

act. But, once again, this was only an attempt to seek a thought to build

upon the theory of a small insignificant organ having a more substantive

part to play in the over all scheme of digestion and good health. However,

the suggestion that it was to turn on and off the liver wasn't part of the

discussion it was merely to note an interplay of how much to deliver to

avail the refilling process of the gallbladder. I did find that the

gallbladder's refilling takes place because of the sphincter of Oddi closing

and causing the bile to backup into the gallbladder.

http://www.cochrane.org/cochrane/revabstr/ab001509.htm

http://rnbob.tripod.com/liverand.htm

http://www.muschealth.com/ddc/dise/sph.htm

Now this becomes even more interesting to me because now the research can

continue with some more questions to be asked and hopefully answered; how is

it that this sphincter of Oddi knows to close and fill the gallbladder? What

signals the body to know the bladder is full? Why is it that the sphincter

of Oddi becomes dysfunctional after a cholecystectomy; is it really

dysfunctional or simply doing its job but not getting a signal that the

gallbladder is full?

It is apparently because of this valve's not opening why many

people who have had their gallbladders removed continue to have the same

symptoms of which they had before the surgery to remove the gallbladder. I

would say that the medical community should answer this type of question

before a person has that, so called, insignificant organ removed, and that

they should

be checking into just why it is this particular action can and does happen

with a certain number of people who have their gallbladders removed.

Is the reason some people don't have this problem because when they did have

their gallbladder removed and there was a certain part of the gallbladder

left

so that there is sensitivity to the backup pressure and therefore the

capacity to signal back to the brain as if the gallbladder is full?

Just a thought to ponder.

Dale

[Guest guest]

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your reply; it was encouraging. I'd felt like I'd failed when I'd

decided to go ahead with the GB surgery. I'm still sure that it's better to

keep your GB if you can, but I'm hopeful that I can still be healthy without it.

Adrienne

barry91162 <barry91162@...> wrote: :-) All the people I have talked too

about living without

the gallbladder have said exactly what you have posted.

Be healthy.

Barry.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

I don't see any reason why you can't be healthy enough without it.

While it is better to keep it, if your gb is diseased or causing you

too much discomfort, even having to take a suppliment for the missing

organ would be better than living with the constant colic and

strictly low-fat dieting. I'm sure you will be fine without it.

Cleansing is still good to clean up your liver every now and then.

Be Healthy and Happy. :-)

Barry.

:-) All the people I have

talked too about living without

> the gallbladder have said exactly what you have posted.

>

> Be healthy.

> Barry.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

I have a little problem with this theory of secondary therefore irrelevant

organs... my paraphrasing there...

My thoughts are that our bodies are incredibly well designed machines, and

therefore there wouldn't be anything therein that had no purpose. This is

why I am reluctant to have something removed, just because socalled modern

medicine haven't worked out its true purpose yet. Therefore I am happy to

try alternatives in the hope that I can keep my body as intact as possible

without losing any what the doctors think are extraneous bits... to me it is

like saying if your little toe hurts, chop it off, only this is more

invasive as it is internal...

cheers

catching up on some emails...:-)

-----Original Message-----

To suggest that the gallbladder signals the liver on and off would be

to romantisize the gallbladder into the description of a primary

bodily organ equal in function to the liver in some sorts.

Without the gallbladder signaling would suggest that the gallbladder

is only a non-essential, or secondary organ that the body can

function fairly well without. This is the argument of the medical

field based on the research that has been done on the function of the

liver and gallbladder within the digestive system.

[Guest guest]

Dale,

Thanks. This is all very interesting info. I was wondering when the

bile knows when to turn into the gb area, etc. I've heard that the gb

muscles will contract to draw the bile in as well as pushing it out.

The valve is what I never knew about. Definitely a good place to

start research. Thanks for the links as well.

Be Healthy.

Barry.

> Barry;

>

> I can appreciate the fact that there is no substantiated information

> regarding the gallbladder being as substantive an organ as the

liver, heart,

> lungs, skin, pancreas, spleen, small intestines, large intestines,

has ever

> been established. The fact of the matter is that there is nothing

supporting

> my theorized contention of gallbladder and liver interplay of

signals, I

> know that. It is just a theory I've only recently thought about

after

> considering the situation of what happens with a person who has an

amputated

> limb, and has the symptom of the phantom limb. This is a question

of which

> would

> have to be answered by someone more knowledgeable than myself and

who either

> has done the research or knows of someone that has done this type of

> research. I would simply like to find out if it has in fact been

done. The

> question simply sets up a reason for a thesis or dissertation

containing

> facts supporting or disproving the question.

>

> I can also appreciate the romantics of believing the gallbladder to

have a

> greater part to play in the interplay between the liver and the

digestive

> act. But, once again, this was only an attempt to seek a thought to

build

> upon the theory of a small insignificant organ having a more

substantive

> part to play in the over all scheme of digestion and good health.

However,

> the suggestion that it was to turn on and off the liver wasn't part

of the

> discussion it was merely to note an interplay of how much to

deliver to

> avail the refilling process of the gallbladder. I did find that the

> gallbladder's refilling takes place because of the sphincter of

Oddi closing

> and causing the bile to backup into the gallbladder.

> http://www.cochrane.org/cochrane/revabstr/ab001509.htm

> http://rnbob.tripod.com/liverand.htm

> http://www.muschealth.com/ddc/dise/sph.htm

>

> Now this becomes even more interesting to me because now the

research can

> continue with some more questions to be asked and hopefully

answered; how is

> it that this sphincter of Oddi knows to close and fill the

gallbladder? What

> signals the body to know the bladder is full? Why is it that the

sphincter

> of Oddi becomes dysfunctional after a cholecystectomy; is it really

> dysfunctional or simply doing its job but not getting a signal that

the

> gallbladder is full?

>

> It is apparently because of this valve's not opening why many

> people who have had their gallbladders removed continue to have the

same

> symptoms of which they had before the surgery to remove the

gallbladder. I

> would say that the medical community should answer this type of

question

> before a person has that, so called, insignificant organ removed,

and that

> they should

> be checking into just why it is this particular action can and does

happen

> with a certain number of people who have their gallbladders removed.

>

> Is the reason some people don't have this problem because when they

did have

> their gallbladder removed and there was a certain part of the

gallbladder

> left

> so that there is sensitivity to the backup pressure and therefore

the

> capacity to signal back to the brain as if the gallbladder is full?

>

> Just a thought to ponder.

>

> Dale

[Guest guest]

Hi Dale,

Even more thoughts to ponder on all this...

One fact is that the S.O. is normally in the closed position until

FOOD will trigger it opening to allow bile to flow out of the ducts

and gb.

Those with gb's removed will feel colic symptoms simular to gb

attacks because the S.O. is not opening because of a problem with the

O.S. Not the triggering by the liver or gb. This would mean that the

removal of the gb has nothing to do with the S.O. trigger to open.

Only if you have a problem with the S.O. not responding to the food

will it not open properly.

The normally closed S.O. will allow bile to backup into the gb until

it is full. Then the bile will also be sitting in the ducts. This

could explain why duct stones form as well. No fat diet, no signal

from fatty foods to open the S.O. and drain the bile, etc. This is

dangerous for the liver because it would appear to become fatty and

sluggish in the bile release area. Bile would then have to find

another way to exit the liver and this would be through the blood

which is not it's optimum course of exit. Very dangerous. Stones

stuck in the S.O. cause a simular problem. Jaundice, pancereas

overload, etc.

Without the gb, the S.O. will open and close as normal with the

intake of foods because of the hormonal signal to do so. Only when

the S.O. itself has a problem and is disfunctioning is why people

without gb feels the simular colic type pain. Therefore it seems that

it is not the loss of the gb or it's signaling causing the S.O. to

open or close. Irritable bowel syndrome would be one cause of S.O.

disfunction. Also, spasming S.O., etc.

The liver to gallbladder signaling theory doesn't seem to come into

play here but the interesting information about the S.O. is very

helpful to uderstand what is going on with the filling and release of

bile from the gb.

Let's keep looking for that theory signal. :-)

Barry.

> > Barry;

> >

> > I can appreciate the fact that there is no substantiated

information

> > regarding the gallbladder being as substantive an organ as the

> liver, heart,

> > lungs, skin, pancreas, spleen, small intestines, large

intestines,

> has ever

> > been established. The fact of the matter is that there is nothing

> supporting

> > my theorized contention of gallbladder and liver interplay of

> signals, I

> > know that. It is just a theory I've only recently thought about

> after

> > considering the situation of what happens with a person who has

an

> amputated

> > limb, and has the symptom of the phantom limb. This is a question

> of which

> > would

> > have to be answered by someone more knowledgeable than myself and

> who either

> > has done the research or knows of someone that has done this type

of

> > research. I would simply like to find out if it has in fact been

> done. The

> > question simply sets up a reason for a thesis or dissertation

> containing

> > facts supporting or disproving the question.

> >

> > I can also appreciate the romantics of believing the gallbladder

to

> have a

> > greater part to play in the interplay between the liver and the

> digestive

> > act. But, once again, this was only an attempt to seek a thought

to

> build

> > upon the theory of a small insignificant organ having a more

> substantive

> > part to play in the over all scheme of digestion and good health.

> However,

> > the suggestion that it was to turn on and off the liver wasn't

part

> of the

> > discussion it was merely to note an interplay of how much to

> deliver to

> > avail the refilling process of the gallbladder. I did find that

the

> > gallbladder's refilling takes place because of the sphincter of

> Oddi closing

> > and causing the bile to backup into the gallbladder.

> > http://www.cochrane.org/cochrane/revabstr/ab001509.htm

> > http://rnbob.tripod.com/liverand.htm

> > http://www.muschealth.com/ddc/dise/sph.htm

> >

> > Now this becomes even more interesting to me because now the

> research can

> > continue with some more questions to be asked and hopefully

> answered; how is

> > it that this sphincter of Oddi knows to close and fill the

> gallbladder? What

> > signals the body to know the bladder is full? Why is it that the

> sphincter

> > of Oddi becomes dysfunctional after a cholecystectomy; is it

really

> > dysfunctional or simply doing its job but not getting a signal

that

> the

> > gallbladder is full?

> >

> > It is apparently because of this valve's not opening why many

> > people who have had their gallbladders removed continue to have

the

> same

> > symptoms of which they had before the surgery to remove the

> gallbladder. I

> > would say that the medical community should answer this type of

> question

> > before a person has that, so called, insignificant organ removed,

> and that

> > they should

> > be checking into just why it is this particular action can and

does

> happen

> > with a certain number of people who have their gallbladders

removed.

> >

> > Is the reason some people don't have this problem because when

they

> did have

> > their gallbladder removed and there was a certain part of the

> gallbladder

> > left

> > so that there is sensitivity to the backup pressure and therefore

> the

> > capacity to signal back to the brain as if the gallbladder is

full?

> >

> > Just a thought to ponder.

> >

> > Dale