Re: Trolls on ARF12S; strategy

[Guest guest]

Personally I just ignore them although I'll read an occaisional troll

just to see how well the 12-steppers are working their programs. I guess

back when I was involved with AA I used to get pissed at people who

just quit on their own. Now that I know not drinking isn't a big deal I

feel kind of sorry for those locked into the step mentality. Just my 2¢.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 98-06-14 15:04:59 EDT, you write:

<< That is it. Any comments?

Joe Berenbaum

>>

Yeah Joe...I have one comment. I know that you mean well...but somehow I find

having someone tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing just as offensive

or more so than Reese's BS. I did not do well with *group think* in the

meetings, and I find you trying to instill it here. They will stop when they

wear themselves out, and get tired of it...and not before. I am not about to

make a hobby out of replying to all their messages, but if I am inclined to, I

will.

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for the tips Joe. I made the mistake of reading a few of Reese's

and

answering one, even after swearing I'd never do it again. Maybe I need

a sponsor to help me against compulsive newsgroup battles. I'm joking

of course. But I was so pissed at Reese that I took it out on ,

who is really not bad, merely obnoxious.

Sincerely,

At 16:33 14/06/98 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi, everybody:

>The only thing worse than a newsgroup with Glenn S is a newsgroup with

Glenn S and Reese and all the other people they attract, the way carcasses

attract vultures.

>I want to renew my plea, at least to the people on this list, not to

respond to any of these people AND not to post anything about them. Either

one just gives them more energy. I logged in this morning to well over a

hundred messages, and the number grew as I kept reading.

>Apparently some folks think it is funny to provoke these people. I don't

think it's funny -- I think it's a waste of time. Others seem to think we

need a reminder of why we left 12 step programs. I don't need a reminder

of why I left 12 step programs, but I would say further, I don't think

these people are representative of 12 step programs. All of us are

probably aware of the borderline loonies who hang out at 12 step programs,

probably because it gives them some sense of belonging, and who are

tolerated at best. The trolls on arf12s seem to have used up the tolerance

that 12 step groups have given them and are looking for new earth to scorch.

>I am a newcomer to newsgroups, and when I found arf12s a few weeks ago it

gave me new courage and new energy. In a few short days the list has

become virtually useless to me. Some of the stuff the trolls say is just

stupid and time-wasting, but some of it is truly offensive. I just hope

these people don't join this list.

I don't think we have much to worry about somehow!

>Ignoring these people WILL make them go away, I am sure, but if even one

person fails to ignore them, we'll still be caught up in the time-wasting,

ignorant, downward spiral that has characterized the last few days.

>Kayleigh

Okay, I'm guilty, if that's the right word, of saying a couple of things

ABOUT them and actually writing a whole original post about " Who is really

doing the whining " , and after that I felt it may not have been necessary at

all. But what I won't do is respond directly to any posts from the Two

Tossers. In fact I don't read them. This is what I think is a good and

viable strategy for reading and postying on arf12s. If anyone wants to

comment on this, please do. The more brains the better. Dealing with trolls

can be tricky, and the bsest way to deal with them is to ignore them. This

needs to be the main line of defence! My semi-evolved troll strategy is this;

[1] READ only posts that come from people who you know will be writing

something sensible, or people who are new. If you find that something by

the Two Tossers (I guess this is " Demonisation " !) is quoted in a post you

are reading, skip over that bit until you get to the actual author of the

post whose stuff you want to read, or just move on to the next sesible

post. If you find you have accidentally clicked on one of those Posts You

Don't Want To Read, just move on to the next sensible post. Resist the urge

to read unpleasant stuff. They want you to read it, so don't. This is a

very big and pwerful weapon against trolls. Use it!

[2] RESPOND only to posts that are written by sensible people or people who

are friendy visitors. Use your own standards to determine what is friendly,

and change them as and when you need to. 12 step people can be okay- they

are just peole, like us. Some of us have even BEEN 12 step people in the

past. If you can reply to them keeping it light and not getting sucked

downwards into anger and reacting, then it may not be a bad thing. Any 12

steppers who you already know to be intent on making trouble, just ignore

them totally.

[3] Whenever you feel you can do it, post a few messages that are light and

positive and that keep up the momentum of the newsgroup. Reply to friendly

people so that their threads have a positive flow and so that those

positive threads are going somewhere, and are not left hanging. And when

someone responds in a friendly way to you, repeat the favour! What trollers

want to do is to get people angry and reactive so that they drop their

positivity and the newsgroup disintegrates. But that can only happen if

people fall into the trap of responding to those messages. If you don't

read them, you can't respond! It only takes a few positive messages at a

time to make the newsgroup function. They can't take that away. It is easy

much of the time to just skip to friendly messages and respond to them in a

positive way, and simply ignore the rest as if they don't exist. This keeps

the newsgroup alive and fulfilling its function. Remember that there may be

some vulnerable people out there lurking, who just need to know that there

really is recovery-from-12-steps!

[4] This is very useful to me and I think it may be useful to bear in mind;

if you are reading arf12s and you are feeling uptight or angry, and are

feeling inclined to get into arguments with trollers, you have the option

of not reading any more, not posting anything, and coming back later

instead and contributing something positive. Please note I'm not saying

anger is bad, or needs to be suppressed, or anything like that. I'll have

you know I'm _far_ too sophisticated for that! It is useful to keep an eye

on one's mood. I like to participate when I'm feeling relaxed, witty, and

don't feel stressed or angry. I just did this for an hour or two and I

think I posted several fairly positive articles. It felt good. I had no

curiosity whatsoever to see what the trollers were saying, even in reply to

my own posts. I know what sort of stuff they have to say, and it is of no

real interest. If I offered you two books, and I said if you read this one

it will make you feel bad, would you want to read it? Okay, that's juat a

superficial analogy. Nothng deep intended.

[5] Last point.We don't HAVE to percieve the high volume of messages as a

problem. Just contribute positive stuff in posoitive threads, as far as is

possible. That is all any of us need to do. High overall volume forces

people to read more selectively anyway. Its not all bad.

That is it. Any comments?

Joe Berenbaum

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