Guest guest Posted November 9, 1998 Report Share Posted November 9, 1998 Hi Well, many ppl might not have considered them inappropriate, as i said. As ever, it's the little things that bug the most: Where I really went ape was when he said (I quote from memory): " It's important that we dont say that AA is religious as that might put ppl away from going. Do you want to ppl to suffer and die needlessly? " - or words to that effect. I might have put up with that normally, but i had had buckets of this crap on supposedly neutral forums, and I guess they might have a right to say it there, but I thought: " $%^$% me, I thought this might be the one place in cyberspace where I wont be subjected to this moralistic browbeating, and it is happening here too! " These views completely swamp addiction discussion lists, including those supposedly professional or academic, and these ppl, who believe XA has given them all they need and all anybody ever needs, in reality have no other agenda other than to police cyberspace squashing dissent and maintaining XA politicoreligious correctness. For this list to provide anything that cant be got elsewhere, imho it has to have a level of policing. that sounds hypocritical, but the difference is I understand that this isnt intended to be a neutral forum for dialog with XAs. there are plenty of those, and huge number of XA lists, so there are plenty of opportunities to get incvolved in that if you want to. I quickly got fed up with the ugliness, obscenity, and trivia perpetrated on arf12s. many, many ppl are put off that, especially women i think at the obscenities. it is also just noise - even without explicit mailbombing, who wants to plough thru all that garbage? Glenn had a sig in which he called himself " Supreme commander of arf12s. " I thought for a moment he might even have been the NG's creator. I was asked why didnt i just filter JB. To me that isnt good enough, because it's a fact that ex-cultists are very vulnerable to getting drawn in again, and the XA virus is like herpes - you may never completely lick it perhaps - it can stay lurking within you to break out again when youre run down and vulnerable. I feel like Semmelweiss in a C19 maternity ward, pointing out how the doctors may cross-infect those they are trying to help! Pete > What were the inappropriate JB posts? i can not recall, may have skipped them? > > Thanks, > GP Pete ---------------------- Cool Briton Whosoever saves One Life Saves the World Entire PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST: http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders _____________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1998 Report Share Posted November 9, 1998 In a message dated 11/9/98 9:36:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, Betche2@... writes: > <snipped for brevity> > > Additionally, who is to know when someone subs if they are a stepper or not? Good point. And, even if you asked us, we could simply be " less than rigorously honest " . Believe it or not, some steppers can actually do that. > While some others may be concerned with this. I think we have to be > realistic. It is impossible to live in a bubble. This is true with ANY Internet email list. >I think the fact that anyone who became > abusive here would be kicked from the list is sufficient. This is true with ANY Internet email list. >What else do you > do....grill every subscriber for their affiliations? If they want to monitor > this list, they probably have a hotmail addy or something like that so you > have no idea who they really are to begin with. Hell, even aolers can have > up to 5 screen names with addies on one account. > I think people are unrealistic to expect an environment more sterile than > this > on the internet where some really weird people play with their identities > all the time. Dear List Participants, I figured that, as long as we Steppers had recently been " outed " , I may as well join the list now. And before the question is even raised; no, I didn't email the girl after the guy here posted her personal email address. Glenn S. " Can't we all just get along? " Rodney King ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1998 Report Share Posted November 9, 1998 What were the inappropriate JB posts? i can not recall, may have skipped them? Thanks, GP ---------- From: Pete Watts[sMTP:awatt04@...] Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 11:44 AM To: Ken R Cc: 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: Steppers lurking Hi Ken and all I'm glad youve raised this Ken, as I was very upset by the JB episode here. Your title is interesting. as you yourself say, it's virtually impossible to stop steppers lurking, unless you subject ppl to a McCarthyite " Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of Alcoholics Anonymous? " type interrogation, and that of course, would achieve nothing anyway. I note with pleasure the responsible attititude of in his post. I dont know if you can really consider yourself a full member if you have no wish to disengage from AA, but you respect this list and hence that's cool. Perhaps we need a kind of " Minus 3 " tradition, with " open " and " closed " loops, honor bound as Tradition 3 is? XA trolls can be booted of course, but it is harder to deal with archive raiders and harvesters. I also thought it was inappropriate to ask ppl to intervene to persuade a third party to quit AA, and it's ironic that the AA's closed in to complete the job, but i understand there wasnt a single 12sf who wrote to this third party. that says something i think. I even thought that that request might be an AA troll in itself! I dont know if the plea was posted on other forums, but if all 10 of those AA posters got the addy from here, it is alarming that there could be that many lurkers here who chose to pounce in this fashion. these ppl could easily close in on ambivalent ppl here even *without* any invitation from anybody. For this reason, I recommend that the archives are owner only so that addys cant be harvested. if someone wants to view the archive, then they can write Ken and he can decide how he should play it. regarding trolls on the list itself, I would like you to see you being tough Ken. We seem to have had some of that recently. Also I think JB should have ben at least moderated or even booted - his views were almost identical to an AA on addict-l of 35 years standing. When ppl break free of cults they are very vulnerable to being drawn back in. not only that, but as ive talked abt before, the 12SP acts like a virus with its own agenda - JB, and the " Pagan lady " as i referred to her, genuinely believed they were posting appropriately here. I know some ppl still think they were, and i think theyre mistaken. We have to keep this place a sterile area - or rather than a safe place to recover, this list could become a hotbed of reinfection! Pete Watts ---------- Whatever you may Think of Me There Has Been and Will Be Thought Much Worse of One Much Better Than Me " And Yet It does Move! " ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1998 Report Share Posted November 9, 1998 At 10:48 PM 11/9/98 EST, GlennS1956@... wrote: >Dear List Participants, > I figured that, as long as we Steppers had recently been " outed " , I may as >well join the list now. > And before the question is even raised; no, I didn't email the girl after >the guy here posted her personal email address. > Glenn S. Hi, Glenn. Since you didn't send an email as the other 10 did, that make 11 confirmed steppers subscribed to the list. I suppose it's not enough just to see the miraculous in 12-step meetings, steppers have to subscribe to this list and see the impossible. :-) > " Can't we all just get along? " > Rodney King We'll see... ----- My Delete key macro is expanding... http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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