Guest guest Posted November 12, 1998 Report Share Posted November 12, 1998 In message , Betche2@... writes >Hi , > >How are you doing? Good to hear from you. Hi Bette, I'm doing really well, thankyou for asking:-) <good stuff snipped> >Anyway...let me assure you, , that I don't want to see what happened on >the NG happen here any more than you do. Furthermore, I don't see how it can. >Anyone who starts pulling that type of shit can be kicked from the lists >immediately. I just don't see kicking someone before they have shown that the >intend to be disruptive as fair treatment. People do change.....Realistically, >I don't have high hopes for some....but I don't believe on acting on that >prejudice that I have before the fact. I guess it's a bit like falling off a horse and having to get back on again. Even though I don't feel confident in dealing with abuse from steppers I can understand that if I constantly run from it I'm never gone get better at it!! As you have pointed out, the fact that an abuser can be kicked off the list should help me feel safer here. I'm so glad that you have reconsidered leaving the list. I do get so much from reading your messages. I like the way that you are straight down the middle, taking the time to look at both sides of the argument. It usually gives me much to think about and I feel that I make a more rational choice rather than jump in with my emotions working overtime<G> It will be interesting to see where this will lead. I hope that you are keeping well. Best Wishes -- M Bristol England ICQ#7099782 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1998 Report Share Posted November 13, 1998 In a message dated 11/13/1998 10:12:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, kat@... writes: > In message , Betche2@... writes > >Hi , > > > >How are you doing? Good to hear from you. > > Hi Bette, I'm doing really well, thankyou for asking:-) > > <good stuff snipped> > > >Anyway...let me assure you, , that I don't want to see what happened > on > >the NG happen here any more than you do. Furthermore, I don't see how it > can. > >Anyone who starts pulling that type of shit can be kicked from the lists > >immediately. I just don't see kicking someone before they have shown that > the > >intend to be disruptive as fair treatment. People do change..... > Realistically, > >I don't have high hopes for some....but I don't believe on acting on that > >prejudice that I have before the fact. > > I guess it's a bit like falling off a horse and having to get back on > again. Even though I don't feel confident in dealing with abuse from > steppers I can understand that if I constantly run from it I'm never > gone get better at it!! As you have pointed out, the fact that an abuser > can be kicked off the list should help me feel safer here. > > I'm so glad that you have reconsidered leaving the list. I do get so > much from reading your messages. I like the way that you are straight > down the middle, taking the time to look at both sides of the argument. > It usually gives me much to think about and I feel that I make a more > rational choice rather than jump in with my emotions working overtime<G> > > It will be interesting to see where this will lead. I hope that you are > keeping well. > > Best Wishes > > > -- , it is really easy to let the bullshit that is dished out by some steppers get to you. Been there done that, and I probably will again. I think that many, just by leaving the 12 steps behind, have made a statement as to their personal strength. It is not an easy thing to do with people who, in numbers, tell you over and over that you will fail, that your thinking is fucked, that you will be back like a dog with its tail between its legs or you will die. I have not been plagued much by the local steppers around here. I think they may have viewed my presence in meetings as ominious towards the end of my attending. My voice was strong and I spewed out a lot of my feelings about it all--a picture of Blair in _The Exorcist_ come to mind.<G> After doing this at the last meeting I attended, I think I scared the shit out of them all. No one would approach me....there were no " keep coming backs " said to me that time--no nods of heads in identification with the words I spoke. Hahaha...after all how could someone considered to be an " old timer " in NA in this neck of the woods say what I said? I wasn't trying to be cruel or burst anyone's bubble. I really didn't even know what was going on with me at the time. It wasn't until several months later that I even made a declaration to myself that I was no longer a member of NA. I get calls almost weekly from a woman I used to sponsor....she doesn't call to urge me to return to the fellowship, she calls because the sponsorship thing was never as big a deal as the friendship we forged. She herself has taken a lot, even from family members in " the program " because her husband is not abstinent and she won't do their bidding and leave him. They have what appears to me to be a very caring relationship. For some reason she still feels an attachment to NA....that is her thing, but has little to do with our friendship. I hear from another very close friend that I met in NA that lives in Florida now, and a couple of others that seem not to be tainted by the dogma of it all. Other than that, no one bothers me. I guess I am lucky in that respect. Maybe this is the advantage of being an NA guru gone astray. I left somewhat confused by it all, but not without my self- esteem. At one time it may have been wrapped up in 12 step dogma, but I seem to have extracted it somewhere along the way. I don't have _enough_ doubts about my actions, choices, or competence for them to _hurt_ me these days, though I do believe many say things designed to hurt and belittle. I also realize that is not the case for everyone when they leave AA/NA. I know that I did not have this kind of presence when I was first introduced to 12 step recovery, which is probably why I became so enmeshed to begin with. I am not real keen on censorship, unless it is a last resort. Who can tell beforehand what valuable information is filtering through to someone's self- conscious, and the effect it may have later on. Not all that long ago, despite my discontent with much of the NA hoopla, I would have stood beside them being an asshole and a bully to those with other perspectives. Actually, I think I was at times. That old " NA guru " complex has that effect on you. So many things happened over the years that chipped away at that belief system. I can't help but wonder iff a few friends in particular who are dead now would have benefited from another perspective on recovery than the " disease concept " and the 12 step answer. Maybe not...but they never had the opportunity to try, because like me at that time, they just didn't know anything else. I still have anger at the way in which an old friend ,who had helped me a great deal when I was new to recovery, was treated after he had picked up again. Shit, he looked near death, and these assholes found it necessary to throw his failure in his face because he had once been a strong personality. The lack of genuine compassion appalled me. It seemed more about putting him in his place. These are just a few of the things that haunt me.....the fact that I participated in such behavior at one time haunts me as well. There are regrets as to how I treated some people that will stay with me a lifetime. They are reminders to me that I no longer want to play that game---from either side of the fence. I have my scars like anyone else....from using and from recovery from using...from life in general, perhaps. Sometimes I think I would like to see people talk more about transcending this bullshit........but I realize that sometimes you don't get to that without being mired in the crap for a while..... Take Care, Bette ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 1998 Report Share Posted November 14, 1998 In a message dated 11/14/1998 2:51:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, freeluke@... writes: > Hi, Bette-- > > I've been sort of following the discussions on 12-step-free. Here is > the info from if you are serious about unsubscribing. > > ============================ Hahaha...first I was going to because I was pissed, then after I got some sleep and read the morning posts to the list, I was not going to because I was annoyed. Now it doesn't seem very important one way or the other. I disagree with Ken's decision about booting someone before they have done anything *on this list* because of behavior in another forum. My feelings on this have not changed. *I* think he jumped the gun. To be honest, I figured that Glenn would lose his cool and give cause to be kicked within 3 days of joining the list as himself anyway.(yes, Glenn--I know you are still reading the list--I said this outright to you already via email, so don't act surprised) All in all, I found some of the responses to this stuff interesting. It seemed to bring some different perspectives out of the woodwork. Some I reject, some I ponder and need to learn more. Chances are the flurry of responses over this all have let up, and this will go back to being a very quiet list. Meanwhile, those steppers who want to use bits and pieces of posts here to make accusations about the listowner on arf12s will have a ball....and so it goes in the world of petty bullshit on Usenet, where the actions of steppers reinforce and/or demostrate the validity of some of the more novel ideas put forth by non-steppers that I once thought of as crazy. Go figure. Thanks for the info Luke....Ken did send it to me very late that nightwhen he saw my request(well--late for me on EDT). Take Care, Bette ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 1999 Report Share Posted January 2, 1999 The last time I checked up on it, which admittedly was some time ago, taxpayers did not have standing to file a lawsuit simply because they disliked what their tax dollars were being spent upon. I don't remember the theory upon which this is based, but I think you can see that if such a lawsuit were viable, the government would be subject to interminable lawsuits regarding defense spending, environmental regulations, highways, Sen. X's pet pork project, etc. You yourself are a viable plaintiff because you have been personally damaged. It is certainly true that anyone at all can file a lawsuit against anyone else, and by virtue of the filing become a " plaintiff, " however, they are not a plaintiff in the eyes of the law. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > >--- > > > > >>You gotta have a plaintiff to file a lawsuit. >>--- >>Kayleigh >> >> Zz >> zZ >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> > >>-------------------------------------------- > > Kayleigh-- > Perhaps you misspoke? The party filing the suit is the " plaintiff. " The party being sued is the " defendant. " > > Please read my previous post on this thread. To further clarify: > Any taxpayer can be a plaintiff in a lawsuit against any agency authorizing the use of tax dollars to fund any form of 12-step treatment. A large-scale class-action suit would pack quite a wallop. > > This is a separate issue (though covered by the same Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment) from coerced 12-step indoctrination of individuals. > > My lawsuit is in two parts: > > (1) against defendant XYZ State Transportation Agency for requiring plaintiff Railroad Rita to participate in religious 12-step indoctrination as a condition of continued state employment; and > > (2) against defendant XYZ State Transportation Agency on behalf of plaintiff Railroad Rita and other taxpayers of the State of XYZ, > > > >-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Isn't it Time You Moved to Fortune City? >http://www2.fortunecity.com/cgi-bin/homepage/estate.pl?referer=findmail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 1999 Report Share Posted January 2, 1999 >The last time I checked up on it, which admittedly was some time ago, >taxpayers did not have standing to file a lawsuit simply because they >disliked what their tax dollars were being spent upon. I don't remember >the theory upon which this is based, but I think you can see that if such >a lawsuit were viable, the government would be subject to interminable >lawsuits regarding defense spending, environmental regulations, highways, >Sen. X's pet pork project, etc. > >You yourself are a viable plaintiff because you have been personally damaged. > >It is certainly true that anyone at all can file a lawsuit against anyone >else, and by virtue of the filing become a " plaintiff, " however, they are >not a plaintiff in the eyes of the law. Filing a motion is not the same as filing a suit. The object is to set a president. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 1999 Report Share Posted January 2, 1999 >>The last time I checked up on it, which admittedly was some time ago, >>taxpayers did not have standing to file a lawsuit simply because they >>disliked what their tax dollars were being spent upon. I don't remember >>the theory upon which this is based, but I think you can see that if such >>a lawsuit were viable, the government would be subject to interminable >>lawsuits regarding defense spending, environmental regulations, highways, >>Sen. X's pet pork project, etc. >> >>You yourself are a viable plaintiff because you have been personally damaged. >> >>It is certainly true that anyone at all can file a lawsuit against anyone >>else, and by virtue of the filing become a " plaintiff, " however, they are >>not a plaintiff in the eyes of the law. > >Filing a motion is not the same as filing a suit. The object is to set a >president. >Larry Sorry that should be PRECEDENT Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 1999 Report Share Posted January 2, 1999 Hey, I knew what you meant, but I had a couple good minutes picturing what it would be like to set a president. Thought it might be sort of like potting a plant. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >>>The last time I checked up on it, which admittedly was some time ago, >>>taxpayers did not have standing to file a lawsuit simply because they >>>disliked what their tax dollars were being spent upon. I don't remember >>>the theory upon which this is based, but I think you can see that if such >>>a lawsuit were viable, the government would be subject to interminable >>>lawsuits regarding defense spending, environmental regulations, highways, >>>Sen. X's pet pork project, etc. >>> >>>You yourself are a viable plaintiff because you have been personally damaged. >>> >>>It is certainly true that anyone at all can file a lawsuit against anyone >>>else, and by virtue of the filing become a " plaintiff, " however, they are >>>not a plaintiff in the eyes of the law. >> >>Filing a motion is not the same as filing a suit. The object is to set a >>president. >>Larry > > >Sorry that should be PRECEDENT >Larry > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Waiting for daily BCS updates to arrive in your inbox? >Join the ESPN.com e-group and we will deliver them to you. >http://offers./click/181/0 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 1999 Report Share Posted January 3, 1999 You would have a case only if you were the person whose constitutional rights are violated. You cannot file a viable lawsuit on behalf of someone else whose rights were violated unless that person is a minor or otherwise incompetent and you are that person's legal guardian. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >True, but one could have a case based on the idea that it is unconstitutional >if it violates the principle of seperation of church and state. > >In a message dated 1/2/99 7:50:26 PM Central Standard Time, kayleighs@my- >dejanews.com writes: > ><< The last time I checked up on it, which admittedly was some time ago, >taxpayers did not have standing to file a lawsuit simply because they disliked >what their tax dollars were being spent upon. I don't remember the theory >upon which this is based, but I think you can see that if such a lawsuit were >viable, the government would be subject to interminable lawsuits regarding >defense spending, environmental regulations, highways, Sen. X's pet pork >project, etc. > > You yourself are a viable plaintiff because you have been personally damaged. > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Build Your Group Headquarters at Fortune City? >http://www2.fortunecity.com/cgi-bin/homepage/estate.pl?referer=findmail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 1999 Report Share Posted October 21, 1999 , They told me there were no guarantees, just like life! Jo-Ann KDJOHIO@... wrote: > I had an HSG test after my first EP and both of my tubes showed no blockeges. > The test was considered a success. Since then, I've had 2 more EP's. Go > figure! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Yuck! The thought of crushed pills!!! Hey, whatever works!!! LOL Take Care, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 I had an HSG test after my first EP and both of my tubes showed no blockeges. The test was considered a success. Since then, I've had 2 more EP's. Go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Dear Joann, No guarantees ... isn't that the statement of a lifetime! I guess, as a woman, you think that you are automatically supposed to be able to reproduce without a care in the world. Women have been having babies since time began, right? I guess that's why it is so heard to comprehend what we are all going through. It is a position I would have never, ever imagined myself in. And, over three years later... I'm still here. No baby prospects on the horizon. Plenty of pregnancies, but no guarantees. You are right... Just like life. Thanks for reading my endless rambling... I am in the strangest mood this week! Take Care, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 1999 Report Share Posted December 5, 1999 , Yes, I did have unprotected sex around O but I didn't realize it until afterwards. At least, I think I O last month. Like said I might have had the CM and not O. I'll just have to wait until the qhcg test. I'll let you know. Thanks, Dawn (no subject) > Dawn, > > The last time I had an EP (May 99), AF came 6.5 weeks later. I was really > scared > and was at the drugstore a few times to get a HPT. The were all negative, > but that > was not enough to satisfy my nerves. I had a qHCG and it showed that I was > definitely not pregnant (which, at that particular time, was a blessing). > > I don't mean to be nosey, but did you have unprotected sex around O last > month? > > I hope you get some resolution soon! > > Let me know! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > http://clickhere./click/1702 > > > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname=ectopicpregnancy & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2002 Report Share Posted November 24, 2002 Read this...it could save your life. I got it from a friend and thought it was something all of us should know. I don't like cruise control and almost never use it but a lot of people do so take heed to what she said. doris " Driving in the rain FYI FYI...pass it on. I received this today from a friend, and wanted to pass it on. I never thought about it before, but will now. I had a wreck a couple of weeks ago and totaled our Lincoln Town Car. I hydroplaned on Hwy 35 between Gladewater & Kilgore, TX. I was not hurt, just emotionally rattled! I know the Lord was with me. I learned a lesson I'd like to pass on to you. You may know this already- but the highway patrolman told me that you should never drive in the rain with your cruise control on. He said if you did and hydroplaned (which I did) that when your tires were off the road your car would accelerate to a high rate of speed (which it did). You don't have much, if any control when you hydroplane, but you are totally in the hands of God when the car accelerates. I took off like I was in an airplane. I'm so thankful I made it through that ordeal. Please pass the word around about not using cruise control when the pavement is wet or icy. The highway patrolman said this should be on the sun-visor with the warning about air-bags. The only person I've found out who knew this (besides the patrolman) was a man who had a similar accident and totaled his car. This has made me wonder if this is not why so many of our young people are dying in accidents. Be careful out there! Betty Z. Grant " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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