Guest guest Posted June 25, 1998 Report Share Posted June 25, 1998 In a message dated 98-06-26 00:17:08 EDT, you write: <-------snipped-------------> << I am new enough to arf12s not to have seen a flame war before, altho I am assured that they have happened and I have not troubled to look up any such posts. However, one of the first posts from Reese in this particular war was an obscenity to Bette that I don't even want to repeat. That alone is enough to keep him out, in my book, no matter what other good qualities he may at times display. That really offended me. So if someone is going to repost his stuff, maybe they could give us some warnings when something like that is going to come up. Kayleigh >> There has been nothing that has compared to this before. Prior to the formation of arf12s in the beginning of February '98, there would be occasional flareups in attitudes and arguments as non-steppers posted information in the alt.recovery hierarchy. then decided to create arf12s. The crossposting of non-steppers to arna and araa actually decreased. In an 8 day period that was average to what the posting traffic was on arf12s....88% of posts by arf12s regualars were posted only in arf12s. 's idea was succesful. It cut down on the crosspost traffic considerably. This is not what ails Reese and his cohorts....it is only their excuse. Reese has had a hair across his ass every since Kim decided to leave 12 step recovery. I can't prove it, but I would venture to say that is the force that drives his seek and destroy mission. As for Glenn....I almost feel sorry for the poor louse. He got his feelings hurt by something someone said on arf12s, went on a posting rampage....which was spotted, latched onto, and encouraged by Reese. Glenn got pats on the back from the arna gang that once was less than amiable to him......too bad he doesn't realize when it is all over and done with...they will once again treat him poorly. As for Reese calling me names...I just try to consider the source. I suppose that I was expected to talk Kim into staying in 12 step recovery and all that jazz....and I didn't do it because I was in the process of leaving NA too. He also can't argue with me about what goes on in NA very well....because I was once a much more involved participant in that fellowship than he has ever been. I know the drill.....he hates that. All he has left to try and hurt me with is namecalling. Pitiful, isn't it? To be honest...I don't know if I would even want to be involved in a NG where Reese gives input anymore. I am not saying he should always be banned from a moderated NG...I am just saying that I have had enough of his bullshit to last a lifetime, and I am not sure that I want to go back to any NG where he posts. ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 1998 Report Share Posted June 25, 1998 In a message dated 98-06-26 01:46:40 EDT, you write: << I agree, Bette. I am rather new to the NG but was the recipient of first hand information about Reese, Kim leaving for RR, et al. I can recognize easily what the axe he is grinding is ... but it still makes it glaringly obvious that people (I considered this myself) are leaving the newsgroup for having to wade through his messages to get to others' valuable posts. I make no apology that I find his posts of no value. I'm not so much an idealist that I would sacrifice the useful enjoyment and comraderie (sp?) of those leaving the AA/NA cult for this person's " right " to ruin the newsgroup. In my estimation, Glenn has been more the culprit than Reese, even stating his obvious intention. Not that this makes it a matter of which of them should be allowed to continue their destructiveness ... just that Glenn deserves the same treatment for the same action as Reese does, as witchwhatever does, etc. It occurs to me that there is a requirement for participation in AA/NA and that is the desire to quit drinking/using. One would be readily silenced, showing up and using " sharing " time to advocate drunkeness for all. They don't (and rightly so) see it as a free speech issue. Sorry if I wax Republican here. I'm a registered Libertarian. I have come to a recent realization, however, that what Reese and Glenn are doing is both immoral and self-serving. They do not themselves subscribe to the ideals that they cry attention to. Namely, they will engage in abusive treatment to anyone who exercises their free speech to disagree. One cannot unsubscribe to the ideal for others and demand it for themselves. I suggest we delete his messages as immediately as they arrive on the server. Notice how he cries free speech for himself and abuses others who voice their disagreement? >> Seasoft, I am not saying he has a right to ruin the NG...I would love to see the _____(just couldn't type that one out...too nasty) get his come-up-ins. My only point in writing what I did is that I really feel that people should know that this is not about what Reese claims it to be about--the crossposting. That is not his driving force, and that is why he can not see any real data that is presented concerning this. And that dumb smuck Glenn...thinks he has made it to what he perceives to be the in crowd in NA recovery online.....Been there-done that-and it ain't shit. I already said that I am not opposed to whatever you all decide concerning moderation of a NG. Right now I have a real attitude going on......if what I am saying is not clear, perhaps it is because my feelings on all this are not real clear to me either at this time. I will tell you this....no bully from arna is going to tell me where I can or can't post...if they want to stop me from putting a post on arna if I so choose to post there...then they will have to moderate as well. This is definitely my attitude coming out...because I did not crosspost and never posted on arna since I left NA.....but I damn well may in the future. The only thing I know I won't do is belittle individuals and call people names.... Bette ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 1998 Report Share Posted June 25, 1998 I agree, Bette. I am rather new to the NG but was the recipient of first hand information about Reese, Kim leaving for RR, et al. I can recognize easily what the axe he is grinding is ... but it still makes it glaringly obvious that people (I considered this myself) are leaving the newsgroup for having to wade through his messages to get to others' valuable posts. I make no apology that I find his posts of no value. I'm not so much an idealist that I would sacrifice the useful enjoyment and comraderie (sp?) of those leaving the AA/NA cult for this person's " right " to ruin the newsgroup. In my estimation, Glenn has been more the culprit than Reese, even stating his obvious intention. Not that this makes it a matter of which of them should be allowed to continue their destructiveness ... just that Glenn deserves the same treatment for the same action as Reese does, as witchwhatever does, etc. It occurs to me that there is a requirement for participation in AA/NA and that is the desire to quit drinking/using. One would be readily silenced, showing up and using " sharing " time to advocate drunkeness for all. They don't (and rightly so) see it as a free speech issue. Sorry if I wax Republican here. I'm a registered Libertarian. I have come to a recent realization, however, that what Reese and Glenn are doing is both immoral and self-serving. They do not themselves subscribe to the ideals that they cry attention to. Namely, they will engage in abusive treatment to anyone who exercises their free speech to disagree. One cannot unsubscribe to the ideal for others and demand it for themselves. I suggest we delete his messages as immediately as they arrive on the server. Notice how he cries free speech for himself and abuses others who voice their disagreement? Re: Moderated ng In a message dated 98-06-26 00:17:08 EDT, you write: <-------snipped-------------> << I am new enough to arf12s not to have seen a flame war before, altho I am assured that they have happened and I have not troubled to look up any such posts. However, one of the first posts from Reese in this particular war was an obscenity to Bette that I don't even want to repeat. That alone is enough to keep him out, in my book, no matter what other good qualities he may at times display. That really offended me. So if someone is going to repost his stuff, maybe they could give us some warnings when something like that is going to come up. Kayleigh >> There has been nothing that has compared to this before. Prior to the formation of arf12s in the beginning of February '98, there would be occasional flareups in attitudes and arguments as non-steppers posted information in the alt.recovery hierarchy. then decided to create arf12s. The crossposting of non-steppers to arna and araa actually decreased. In an 8 day period that was average to what the posting traffic was on arf12s....88% of posts by arf12s regualars were posted only in arf12s. 's idea was succesful. It cut down on the crosspost traffic considerably. This is not what ails Reese and his cohorts....it is only their excuse. Reese has had a hair across his ass every since Kim decided to leave 12 step recovery. I can't prove it, but I would venture to say that is the force that drives his seek and destroy mission. As for Glenn....I almost feel sorry for the poor louse. He got his feelings hurt by something someone said on arf12s, went on a posting rampage....which was spotted, latched onto, and encouraged by Reese. Glenn got pats on the back from the arna gang that once was less than amiable to him......too bad he doesn't realize when it is all over and done with...they will once again treat him poorly. As for Reese calling me names...I just try to consider the source. I suppose that I was expected to talk Kim into staying in 12 step recovery and all that jazz....and I didn't do it because I was in the process of leaving NA too. He also can't argue with me about what goes on in NA very well....because I was once a much more involved participant in that fellowship than he has ever been. I know the drill.....he hates that. All he has left to try and hurt me with is namecalling. Pitiful, isn't it? To be honest...I don't know if I would even want to be involved in a NG where Reese gives input anymore. I am not saying he should always be banned from a moderated NG...I am just saying that I have had enough of his bullshit to last a lifetime, and I am not sure that I want to go back to any NG where he posts. ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 1998 Report Share Posted June 26, 1998 Hi Kayleigh, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that I don't deserve this from Damian:-) I need to learn to cover up my thin skin, I know that newsnet can be a dangerous place, I'm learning pretty darn quick LOL. I can't see for the life of me where he gets the idea in his last onslaught that I have been flaming him. Is he really that thick??? I now know exactly what my sponser meant when she said an arsehole is still an arsehole even when sober! Oh well guys, I tried, I don't know why I ever thought that my heartfelt plea would help, never mind, it's certainly taught me a lot<G> I too recieved this email in my post this morning but as I hadn't ever talked to this guy I just deleted it, I'm glad I did as it would have frightened the life out of me. It certainly looks like it was a mail bomb, nice trick huh!! It's hard to remember the really nice people in the araa NG when you get dogged down under this barrage from the most despicable. Take care all -- M Bristol England ICQ#7099782 ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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