Re: Reply to Pete (off–topic; re Clinton/Lewinsky)

[Guest guest]

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>Hi All

>

>apparently, according to this chap, Clinton's sin wasnt adultery but wanking.

>

>Rita or anyone, is it not adultery if a married woman has sex with a single

>man, in Judaism, by analogy with the below?

>

>P.

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Pete,

" Adultery " in Jewish law is defined as any man (married or single) having

intercourse with a married Jewish woman. What is commonly called " fornication "

(any other type of sex outside of marriage) is not expressly forbidden in Torah.

Clinton (and Lewinsky) violated laws of " Tsnius " (modesty). Clinton may

(by stretch of the imagination) have committed " onanism " insofar as " spilling

his seed " on 's dress.

     (Really, only the very, very Orthodox are so very hung up on ancient sexual

purity laws.)

Starr et al. are guilty of the serious moral crime of " Lashon Hara "

(malicious gossip and public shaming).

Hope this answers your question.

~Rita

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>--- Begin Forwarded Message ---

>> A Jewish Scholar examines the Clinton issue

>> >

>> > " He who publicly shames his neighbor is as though he shed blood. "

>> -Talmud Baba Mezia 58b.

>>

>> > Americans have been discussing the moral issues of the Starr Report in

>> > terms of the values of Christianity. From the perspective of Judaism,

>> > however, the terms of the discussion change. Unfortunately, even very

>few

>> > Jews are aware that Judaism teaches a different set of moral principles.

>> >

>> > According to classical Jewish law, President Clinton did not commit

>> > adultery; adultery is defined as a married man having intercourse

>with a

>> > married woman, and Lewinsky is single. At worst, President

>>Clinton

>> > is guilty of the common sin of onanism, a sin that probably afflicts the

>> > consciences of most Jewish men at one time or another.

>> >

>> > While most of our moral debate focuses on the actions of President

>>Clinton,

>> > the worst sin from the perspective of Jewish law is the public

>>humiliation

>> > of President Clinton, undertaken by W. Starr with the

>cooperation

>>of

>> > the House Judiciary Committee. According to the Talmud, humiliating a

>>human

>> > being in public is tantamount to murder, and, like murder is a sin that

>>can

>> > never be forgiven. Repentance is not possible for Mr. Starr, because it

>>must

>> > be preceded by reparation. Neither murder nor the destruction of a

>>person's

>> > reputation can ever be restored, so the sinner can never receive

>> > forgiveness.

>> >

>> > Seen in Talmudic perspective, the Starr Report, with its salacious and

>> > often irrelevant sexual details from Lewinsky's testimony,

>> > constitutes assassination. For the members of the U.S. Congress to make

>> > public a Report that humiliates the President, his wife, and his

>daughter

>> > makes them partners in this assassination. From the perspective of

>>Jewish

>> > history, we have to ask how Jews can condemn President Clinton's

>behavior

>> > as immoral, when we exalt King ?

>> >

>> > Clearly, 's affair with Batsheva was far more insidious- had

>> > Batsheva's husband, Uriah, murdered. While was condemned and

>> > punished, he was never thrown off the throne of Israel. On the contrary,

>> > he is exalted in our Jewish memory as the unifier of Israel, the builder

>> > of Jerusalem, the author of our psalms, the ancestor of the messiah.

>His

>> > wicked deed of murder was placed in perspective and the entirety of his

>> > life was judged, without condemning him on the basis of one sin, as

>> > outrageous as it was. If President Clinton should be asked to resign

>his

>> > office, then King ought to be wiped from our memory.

>> >

>> > Also troubling is the rush by some Jewish leaders, such as Senator

>ph

>> > Lieberman and Rabbi Ismar Schorsch, to condemn President Clinton, when

>> > they uttered not a peep concerning Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's

>> > admitted confession to adultery. When was Netanyahu ever condemned as

>> > unfit to hold office because of his affairs? Jews like to say that

>> > President Clinton has been one of the best friends Israel and the Jewish

>> > people have had in the presidency; what kind of integrity do we have, if

>> > we abandon our friend when powerful people are trying to assassinate

>him?

>> >

>> > Finally, certain members of Congress, including Representative Gephardt,

>> > have condemned President Clinton's efforts at self-defense as legal

>> > " hair-splitting, " as if that were beneath contempt. The term itself

>> > derives from age-old Christian polemics that Judaism is a legalistic

>> > system that fails to understand religious values of love and charity.

>>Yet

>> > unlike Christianity, Judaism rests on a system of law that demands and

>> > exalts hair-splitting, due process, and minute precision in its judicial

>> > decision-making. Just as we expect minute precision from our physicians

>> > and scientists, why not expect it from our religions?

>> >

>> > There is no shame in hair-splitting, despite the mockery and contempt in

>> > which it has been held for centuries by Christians. Exactitude is the

>> > most important feature of Jewish law, and without it there can be no

>> > justice, and without justice there can be no viable society. This

>> > country's population contains a majority of Christians, but the often

>>very

>> > different values and principles of other citizens-among them, Jews,

>> > Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists-must also be heard. Christianity is but one

>>of

>> > many systems of religious values, not the only one.

>> >

>> > Prof. nah Heschel

>> > Department of Religion

>> > Dartmouth College

>> > 6036 Thornton Hall

>> > Hanover, NH 03755-3592

>> > >>

>--- End Forwarded Message ---

>

>

>----------

>Pete Watts

>--------------------------------------------

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