M.S. AND THE VITAMIN D CONNECTION

[Guest guest]

Department of Biochemistry, University of Wisconsin-Madison 53706, USA.

Recently, it has been clearly demonstrated that exogenous

1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, the hormonal form of vitamin D3, can completely

prevent experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE), a widely accepted

mouse model of human multiple sclerosis (MS). This finding has focused

attention on the possible relationship of this disease to vitamin D.

Although genetic traits certainly contribute to MS susceptibility, an

environmental factor is also clearly involved. It is our hypothesis that one

crucial environmental factor is the degree of sunlight exposure catalyzing

the production of vitamin D3 in skin, and, further, that the hormonal form

of vitamin D3 is a selective immune system regulator inhibiting this

autoimmune disease. Thus, under low-sunlight conditions, insufficient

vitamin D3 is produced, limiting production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3,

providing a risk for MS. Although the evidence that vitamin D3 is a

protective environmental factor against MS is circumstantial, it is

compelling. This theory can explain the striking geographic distribution of

MS, which is nearly zero in equatorial regions and increases dramatically

with latitude in both hemispheres. It can also explain two peculiar

geographic anomalies, one in Switzerland with high MS rates at low altitudes

and low MS rates at high altitudes, and one in Norway with a high MS

prevalence inland and a lower MS prevalence along the coast. Ultraviolet

(UV) light intensity is higher at high altitudes, resulting in a greater

vitamin D3 synthetic rate, thereby accounting for low MS rates at higher

altitudes. On the Norwegian coast, fish is consumed at high rates and fish

oils are rich in vitamin D3. Further, experimental work on EAE provides

strong support for the importance of vitamin D3 in reducing the risk and

susceptibility for MS. If this hypothesis is correct, then

1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 or its analogs may have great therapeutic potential

in patients with MS. More importantly, current research together with data

from migration studies opens the possibility that MS may be preventable in

genetically susceptible individuals with early intervention strategies that

provide adequate levels of hormonally active 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 or its

analogs.

[Guest guest]

If you have a degenerative disease such as M/S, vitamin D supplementation may do

more harm than good. I suggest you look at

http://members.aol.com/SynergyHN/vitd . M/S is more prevalent in the cooler

latitudes. Coincidently thats where the Lyme ticks thrive. ..RP

[Guest guest]

I don't recall of us ever disagreeing. ...RP

Pugh wrote: Hi Rich. I can't believe

that you're coming around to my way of thinking! If a person has Lyme disease,

the Marshall Protocol suggests lower amounts of vitamin D, 1,25 hydroxy (D3).

[Guest guest]

I am very confused. I did come upon the Marshall protocol in my

research on MS, but didn't really understand it. And all it did was

confuse me as so many other experts say lots of Vit D is good for MS.

So what am I to think? I'm scared that the D I'm taking is doing me

harm, but I'm also scared of not taking it!! Is anyone out there a

scientist who can explain this contradiction?

Beverly

[Guest guest]

Hi Beverly,

Perhaps the article featured here will help you determine the merits of taking

vitamin D:

http://tinyurl.com/3wn95x

Best regards,

Dudley Delany

http://profiles.yahoo.com/dudley_delany

[Guest guest]

A  doctor on television told how he had seen fantastic results when the

sufferers of Multiple Sclerosis, arthritis, and Colitis took small amounts of

Cod Liver Oil  daily  (1 tbsp.!)  and that there are supplements that have cod

Liver oil in them you don't have that horrible " fish taste " .

 Mark/Atlanta

[Guest guest]

Interesting info on Vitamin D. I went to a lyme specialist. I don't

have Lyme but I do have MS. 20 minutes a day sun exposure should not

cause skin cancer because you do not get sun burned. A piece of info I

picked up (though I did not keep the article)is that if you do not have

the correct amount of calcium in your system, the body can not convert

sunlight into Vitamin D. All these studies on elevated T cells, I

wonder if the researchers ever checked for other vitamin levels that

might have contributed to the rise in the D hormone levels. The body

works in concert with all its parts, only balance equals health. In

everything I read, researchers don't seem to take this into

consideration. Just a thought.

Lydia

[Guest guest]

According to Dr Marshall the supplementing with xtra vitimin D suppresses the

immune system and the patient may fell better for a while as a result, thinking

that they were deficient in D. As a result the disease progresses because of the

suppressed immune system. The Marshall Protocol. I believe would aggree.

....RP

Mark wrote: A doctor on television

told how he had seen fantastic results when the sufferers of Multiple Sclerosis,

arthritis, and Colitis took small amounts of Cod Liver Oil daily (1 tbsp.!)

and that there are supplements that have cod Liver oil in them you don't have

that horrible " fish taste " .

Mark/Atlanta

[Guest guest]

Hi Lydia, I am curious, how did the Lyme specialist rule out lyme in your case?

.....RP

lydia_rawlings wrote: Interesting info on

Vitamin D. I went to a lyme specialist. I don't

have Lyme but I do have MS. 2

[Guest guest]

Hi!

He sent blood samples to a special lab. I was suprised I didn't have

it because I spent my youth playing in a heavily weeded area

affectionaly called " the farmer's field " .

Interesting info

on Vitamin D. I went to a lyme specialist. I don't

> have Lyme but I do have MS. 2

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, and thank you, I didn't know that there is a definitive blood test for lyme

now. I'll have to look it up. RP

lydia_rawlings wrote: Hi!

He sent blood samples to a special lab. I was suprised I didn't have

it because I spent my youth playing in a heavily weeded area

affectionaly called " the farmer's field " .

[Guest guest]

Here are Ashton Embry's remarks upon the latest Vitamin D opposing views

which might help some of us decide which to follow.

Janet

----- Original Message -----

Waterhouse is Marshall's " right hand assistant " and all I can say is that

there is no reasonable science behind anything she and Marshall have to say

about vitamin D and autoimmune disease. There is no doubt that vitamin D is

dysregulated in sarcoidosis but that is not an issue in MS etc. When people

ask about the Marshall nonsense you can also send them my NP column on this

(attached). I would also note the concept of a 1,25D/25D ratio is also

nonsense. 1,25D level is tightly regulated whereas 25D level simply depends

on vitamin D intake. 25D level lets you know what your vitamin D status is

and 1,25D level says little if anything.

Ashton

Vitamin D Supplementation and Autoimmune Disease - Opposing Views

Ashton Embry

I have received a number of inquiries about a recent press release which was

entitled " Vitamin D Deficiency Study Raises New Questions about Disease and

Supplements " . It was released by the Autoimmune Research Foundation, a

California charity. Given that the main message in the press release was

that new research demonstrates that vitamin D supplementation may make

autoimmune disease worse, I was very curious about such new research and the

science behind it.

As a scientist, I am aware that there is no 100% certainty in any

interpretation of scientific findings. All one can do is collect as much

data as possible on a given problem. Then, through critical, rational

thinking, sort out reliable scientific findings from baseless speculations

and come up with the best interpretation of that data. I have done this when

it comes to the question of the potential role of vitamin D in MS. There is

a very large and diverse data base which indicates that vitamin D deficiency

is a major factor in MS onset and progression and that vitamin D

supplementation is potentially of significant value for preventing MS and

for slowing progression. Thus I was somewhat surprised by a bold claim that

new research demonstrates that just the opposite is true.

The author of the scientific paper on this purported new research is listed

in the press release as " Trevor Marshall, Ph.D., professor at Australia's

Murdoch University School of Biological Medicine and Biotechnology " A Google

search revealed Dr Marshall is actually the director of the Autoimmune

Research Foundation, the source of the press release. Furthermore, he is not

an Australian professor but simply has an adjunct position at that

university. The fact that Dr Marshall passes himself off as an Australian

professor rather than as a California charity director does not inspire

confidence in his work.

However, such misrepresentation is not that big a deal. In science, when you

want to evaluate the credibility of new research findings, it all comes down

to the scientific data and interpretations an author presents, not the

author's credentials. To evaluate the new research, I downloaded the

publication which is entitled " Vitamin D discovery outpaces FDA decision

making " a rather strange title for a scientific study. I soon realized that

the paper had absolutely nothing to do with new research as claimed in the

press release but was simply an opinion piece by Dr Marshall on his highly

speculative and unorthodox hypothesis that autoimmune disease is caused by

bacterial infection and vitamin D supplementation.

I had looked at this hypothesis in 2006 and found there is absolutely no

credible science which supports it. In fact, I found there was a lot of

reliable science which rendered such a hypothesis as extremely unlikely and

similar to the hypothesis that all cancers are caused by parasites. Every

chronic disease, including MS has its collection of speculative hypotheses

which have little to no scientific support and each hypothesis has a related

therapy. In Dr Marshall's case he promotes his " Marshall Protocol " for

autoimmune disease. This therapy consists of antibiotics, a vitamin D

receptor stimulator and a very low vitamin D intake (no supplements, avoid

the sun as much as possible) and is prescribed for a long list of diseases.

I went through Dr Marshall's opinion piece and found it contained a number

of outright factual errors as well as a number of highly questionable

claims. As an example of a factual error, Dr Marshall states that vitamin D

supplementation of food has spread throughout the world. This is simply not

true and even continental Europe does not supplement food with vitamin D. A

more serious error is the claim that an increasing concentration of 1,25-D,

the active vitamin D hormone, depresses generation of 25(OH)D, the

circulating from of vitamin D. Solid and diverse research data demonstrate

that 25(OH)D concentration is a function of vitamin D intake and has no

relationship to 1,25-D levels which are tightly regulated by various

feedback processes.

Another claim is " the chronic addition of immunomodulary vitamin D to the

diet is partly responsible for the current obesity epidemic " and again no

credible scientific data are presented or referenced to support such a

speculation. Dr Marshall also briefly addresses MS and vitamin D and

completely ignores all the studies which demonstrate the role of vitamin D

deficiency in MS. He quotes one researcher who cautioned against vitamin D

supplementation until more data are available. Coincidently, when that paper

was published a few years ago, I had asked the senior author why such a

statement was in their paper and it turned out the very conservative journal

editor, not the authors, wanted its inclusion. The authors, Harvard research

scientists, strongly support vitamin D supplementation for MS.

The bottom line is that the " new research " referred to in the press release

is nothing more than a conglomeration of unsupported opinions which are part

of Dr Marshall's continued attempt to promote his unconventional concepts

and the use of the " Marshall protocol " as an acceptable treatment for many

chronic diseases. I would note that I believe that Dr Marshall is

completely sincere in his beliefs and that he is not trying to make money

from promoting his hypotheses and treatments. However, he would have more

success in convincing others of his concepts if he could provide some

reliable science to support his opinions. He provides no data from

epidemiology, animal experiments, immunological studies or valid clinical

trials.

Furthermore, it is also essential for him to counter the voluminous and

diverse data which support the concept that diseases like MS and rheumatoid

arthritis are autoimmune diseases rather than bacterial infections. For

example Dr Marshall claims that vitamin D supplementation suppresses the

immune system and thus helps to drive autoimmune diseases by allowing the

bacteria to flourish. He neglects to mention that immune suppressant drugs

reduce disease symptoms rather than exacerbate them as his hypothesis would

demand.

It also concerns me that the press release contains a number of statements

on topics which are not addressed in Dr Marshall's opinion piece and most

can be dismissed as having no scientific support. The statement " Marshall's

research has demonstrated how ingested vitamin D can actually block VDR

activation, the opposite effect to that of Sunshine " has no basis in fact

and the claimed research is not discussed or referenced in the article. It

appears the press release is simply another vehicle for Dr Marshall to

promote his speculative hypotheses regarding vitamin D and disease.

Unfortunately such information is often perceived by the public to be

reliable science, especially in a case like this when the author passes

himself off as a university professor and makes misleading statements such

as " our research has demonstrated " . He is a charity director and there is no

acceptable research which demonstrates any of his claims - only speculations

based on speculations.

In summary, we currently have two opposing views on vitamin D and MS. The

view held by most MS researchers and by me and supported by a large and

diverse database interprets that vitamin D deficiency is a significant

factor in MS and that supplementation may well be of value. Dr Marshall's

view is that vitamin D intake promotes disease progress and that any

supplementation may be harmful. This view is not supported by any credible

science. In closing, I would again emphasize there is no certainty in

science and the best we can do is make the best interpretation with the

available data and take the appropriate actions. I suggest each person look

over the two opposing interpretations and choose the one which seems most

reasonable and well supported.

----- Original Message -----

According to Dr Marshall the supplementing with xtra vitimin D suppresses

the immune system and the patient may fell better for a while as a result,

thinking that they were deficient in D. As a result the disease progresses

because of the suppressed immune system. The Marshall Protocol....RP

----- Original Message -----

Beverly wrote:

so many other experts say lots of Vit D is good for MS.

So what am I to think? I'm scared that the D I'm taking is doing me

harm, but I'm also scared of not taking it!! Is anyone out there a

scientist who can explain this contradiction?

[Guest guest]

try this WebSite it is very good for people with MS

 please  pass this on to others,

www.patientslikeme.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan, Us Lay people with degenerative diseases (most people in the

industrialized world) are on the lookout for answers and of course cures. A

growing majority like myself with almost fourty (40) years of illness

perpetuated by modern medice and science (sic) and scientists with degrees all

over the walls and tons of research papers that baffles us with B.S. are fed up

to here. If someone is in practice and getting RESULTS thats all I care about at

this point, regardless of scientific arguments or so called " credentials " . I

have been screwed over all of my life with those that have the science and the

credentials. I have been helped the most by so called Naturalists and I have

helped many many myself in the past few years with out the having the so called

credentials and half baked science. I call it half baked because it never worked

for me. If you are IN PRACTICE and getting RESULTS speak up, other wise sitdown.

...........RP

Janet Orchard wrote: Here are Ashton Embry's

remarks upon the latest Vitamin D opposing views

which might help some of us decide which to follow.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Have you ever researched or tried HBOT? We have seen some wonderful results

with MS patients at our clinic! There are several clinics throughout the US

that treat MS.

Pridmore

Charlotte Metro Hyperbarics

HYPERLINK

" http://www.hboinfo.com/ncarolina.htm " www.hboinfo.com/ncarolina.htm

_____

From: mscured [mailto:mscured ] On Behalf Of

rich perillo

Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 11:03 AM

To: mscured

Subject: Re: M.S. AND THE VITAMIN D CONNECTION

Hi Jan, Us Lay people with degenerative diseases (most people in the

industrialized world) are on the lookout for answers and of course cures.

[Guest guest]

I think that Ashton Embry might be the pot calling the kettle black. He's a

geologist and his research has been gathered from other scientists. He does

have experience with his son, but that doesn't necesarily mean that everyone

else will have the same experiences. He lost my attention when he suggested to

me that I needed to eat soybeans for protein since I didn't eat meat. That is

an incorrect statement for many reasons. His recommendation for supplementation

was disproven to me as well when I had my blood tested and all was within the

reference range (without supplementation) and also because I have gotten so much

better eating raw produce and spending time in the sun. I agree that we all

have to find the path that leads us to good health. The paths may be different

routes. Try the vitamin D and see for yourself if it helps you.

Janet Orchard wrote: Here are Ashton Embry's remarks

upon the latest Vitamin D opposing views

which might help some of us decide which to follow.

Janet

[Guest guest]

 I have tried it in the past but it was using only pressurized and filtered

oxygen, 7 psi  vs. 14.7 psi  for pure oxygen hyperbaric therapy --  I did this a

great cost to me seeing not much benefit, I have a friend who has MS and her

husband bought her a hyperbaric chamber and doing this along with Tysabri and

bee sting therapy allows her to do almost everything that she did in the past! 

It is no sure but only a tool to help us!

[Guest guest]

Whether vit D is good or bad for those with MS probably depends on what are the

main underlying causes/factors.    For those with typical autoimmune related

MS due to mercury or or demyelinating factors, vit D is likely usually good. 

But apparently if lyme is a factor, this may not be the case.   Its always

important to try to identify your underlying problems and react accordingly.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

Hi Lydia, just passing along general info to you and the group. I spoke to a rep

at Igenex Labs in Cal. about their Lyme spiroschete Western Blot test that in

their oppinion is about 95% accurate. But there are about a dozen different

tests for some of the co-infections transmitted also. So who knows? .....RP

lydia_rawlings wrote: Hi!

He sent blood samples to a special lab. I was suprised I didn't have

it because I spent my youth playing in a heavily weeded area

affectionaly called " the farmer's field " .

[Guest guest]

I just did a quick check on line of the NIH (National Institute of Health)

budget over the last ten years or so. 50 Billion dollars. Over the last 50 years

Trillions spent on " research " world wide but mostely in the US. They offer us

Prednisone, Copaxone, Chemo, Radiation, and Tylonol. We ask them, what causes

M/S? They answer, we don't know. ....RP