hello

[Guest guest]

Polly,

Welcome to this list. You will learn that this diet can be modified in

soooo many ways. You mentioned your daughter had lost 60 pounds: unless

she was very overweight, this should have been prevented with calorie

modification. Since she had such good results and she was so compliant,

I'd sure try it again. There are many on this list who could help you

with ideas of fine-tuning. Also, I'd talk to your doc about lowering

some medicines (or eliminating). I've seen several moms post that their

children did not see seizure control until the drugs were eliminated.

With us, the seizure control hasn't changed since we eliminated the

medicine, but feels like a new child (that's worth lots).

Kathy in Tennessee

Mom to - 6 - Keto kid since 02/00, Med free, seizures 95% reduced

Mom to 'lil sis, a - 3

" Even to your old age and gray hairs I am He, I am He who will sustain

you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will

rescue you. "

Isaiah 46:4

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:43:52 EDT polopar@... writes:

> Hello. Our adult daughter (41) was on the diet for a year in 1999.

> She had

> good success for a few months; then things went back to normal

> (frustrating

> drop seizures, and atypical absences). She lost 60 lb, and never

> cheated

> once. If the seizures had stayed greatly improved, I think she

> could have

> hung with it. We did the diet with the Pasadena Epilesy group. They

> did not

> suggest lowering her heavy meds (Depakote 2250 mg, Tegretol 1800 mg,

> Lamictal

> 50 mg)

>

> I am still very interested in the diet, as I feel that it's possible

> that

> when there is better understanding of why the diet works, that there

> is hope

> that adaptations may be made that would be helpful for adults. (Judy

> who is

> developmentally disabled is trying to hold down a job in a

> handicapped

> enclave which she loves, but between the meds which make her sedated

> and the

> seizures, it is hard.)

> I know this list concentrates on kids on the diet, but I learn a lot

> from it;

> so I hope I can listen in. Thanks, Nan, for hosting it!

> Polly

>

> " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a

> last resort! "

>

> List is for parent to parent support only.

> It is important to get medical advice from a

> professional keto team!

> Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Polly,

Our daughter is 25 years old and on the diet since October, 2000. We were

lucky in that she was only on tegretol when we started. We are doing the diet

at Toronto Western Hospital. The tegretol was not working as her seizures had

been increasing in frequency and duration prior to starting the diet. I also

realized afterwards that she had been showing signs of toxicity as well (very

sleepy and eyes darting back and forth). I had to convince the keto team to

wean off the tegretol, even though this is the second goal of the diet after

the goal of reducing seizures. We had initial good control in the first week

with only one seizure, although our daughters behaviour was so altered that we

had trouble determining what were seizures. She is microcephalic and severely

disabled with no speech or communication.

We had all sorts of complications and set-backs; vomiting, constipation, not

eating, reflux, and weight loss, etc. Each of these problems were overcome

with hard work, ingenuity and patience.

The type of seizure that she had also changed and she began having jerks and

other new behaviours.

Although we didn't get complete seizure control, the seizures were very much

reduced in frequency and duration and after the seizure, she bounced right

back as though nothing had happened, rather than a long sleep. The other

remarkable change was her increased awareness that occured basically instantly

as she went into ketosis. This has been reported in the literature for other

adults trying the diet.

We finally convinced the team to wean off the tegretol. We used the doctors

recommended schedule which turned out to be too fast for her. We did 25 % of

initial dose per week to be completely off in 4 weeks. Just after the last

dose, we saw a huge increase in seizures and eventually wound up in emergency

with seizures happening about every 3 to 7 minutes. This had never happened in

her 25 year history of seizures.

We went back on the tegretol and had ativan and diastat handy although I don't

think that the ativan actually worked; maybe it did after a couple of hours. I

am not really sure about it.

I was determined to get off the tegretol and used an exponential reduction as

the problem seemed to come at the end of the wean. I reduced by 50 % of the

previous dose every 2 weeks, e.g. 800, 400, 200, 100, 50, etc. This was

tempered by practical considerations of cutting 200 mg tablets in quarters. By

the end I was giving a quarter tablet once a week. This may have been extreme,

but there is no guideline that I could find anywhere. I did find a reference

from 1989 that says, " The optimal rates of carbamazepine reduction remain

uncertain: withdrawal of this drug was often associated with an increase in

seizures, and its discontinuation should be approached with caution, even if

its use does not appear to have helped seizure control. " And " Further studies

are necessary to confirm these findings and to determine the optimal rates of

removal of carbamazepine, when it is desired to discontinue that agent. " J.S.

Duncan, Strategies of Antiepileptic Drup Treatment in Patients with Chronic

Epilepsy. Perhaps there are ethical problems of doing further studies to show

how fast to safely reduce tegretol because if the reduction is unsafe the

patient will wind up in status.

We did get some increased seizures during this latter wean as well as crying

episodes and waking at night, but not as bad as during the first wean. I used

this " increased seizure " period to basically " detune " the diet and gain some

weight by increasing calories by 100 per day.

So now after 8 months, we are off the tegretol; not easy for just one

medication.

I am optimistic that now we are getting into fine tuning and may get even

better seizure control. I have been taking an accurate weight once a week at

the doctors office, so I feel that I will be able to use this data to pinpoint

the correct calorie level as this is critical for success on the diet.

I did find that we were getting seizures at particular times of the day; early

morning, 10:30 am and 2:30 pm. This may be due to levels of calorie intake and

we will be working on timing and size of meals to eliminate these.

I hope that you will reconsider the diet and I would suggest that perhaps

there is a possibility that weaning drugs should be included in any diet

regime. This appears to be a strong suggestion from Freeman's book. I know now

though what he means by " getting the diet working first " as there are so many

complications in initiating such a drastic change in metabolism. It took us 3

months to get to a more or less stable diet regime.

polopar@... wrote:

>

> Hello. Our adult daughter (41) was on the diet for a year in 1999. She had

> good success for a few months; then things went back to normal (frustrating

> drop seizures, and atypical absences). She lost 60 lb, and never cheated

> once. If the seizures had stayed greatly improved, I think she could have

> hung with it. We did the diet with the Pasadena Epilesy group. They did not

> suggest lowering her heavy meds (Depakote 2250 mg, Tegretol 1800 mg, Lamictal

> 50 mg)

>

> I am still very interested in the diet, as I feel that it's possible that

> when there is better understanding of why the diet works, that there is hope

> that adaptations may be made that would be helpful for adults. (Judy who is

> developmentally disabled is trying to hold down a job in a handicapped

> enclave which she loves, but between the meds which make her sedated and the

> seizures, it is hard.)

> I know this list concentrates on kids on the diet, but I learn a lot from it;

> so I hope I can listen in. Thanks, Nan, for hosting it!

> Polly

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

It means that it is small. My whole left side of my uterus never developed.

So far that's all I know. I have my follow up appt. next Tuesday.

Jeanne

Re: Hello

> Hi, Jeannie. Welcome to the group...

>

> My name is Stacey... I just replied to the roll call so I won't go

through

> my info. again. But, I have a question for you... What is a

" hypoplastic "

> horn? I just haven't heard that term before...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm around. I've just kind of lost my obsession with IE for a couple of days... been more focused on reading articles online about some church stuff. Still working on being an IE, though!

I had the opportunity to watch a natural-eater friend, yesterday at dinner! She is the skinniest thing, and says she doesn't do anything to maintain her weight. Well, the funny thing was, I took my usual smaller portions, and watched in amazement as she filled up her plate fuller than mine! And, she ate it all! So, okay... what's all that about?

Jenn

<><

hello

Wow, we must all be doing so well with our IE lifestyle that we don’t need encouragement. No one has written for a while. Maybe everyone is vacationing.

I hope everyone is well.

Vicki

http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

http://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/IntuitiveEating_Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

Jenn--

I know what you mean. I'll be out with people and be the biggest one at the

table--eating the smallest amount of food. It makes me wonder what is going on!!

Perhaps when there isn't any excess weight on my body I will require more food.

I supposed it could be because of how active they are.

Cheryl

>

>Date: 2006/08/14 Mon PM 01:01:57 CDT

>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>Subject: Re: hello

>

>I'm around. I've just kind of lost my obsession with IE for a couple of days...

been more focused on reading articles online about some church stuff. Still

working on being an IE, though! I had the opportunity to watch a natural-eater

friend, yesterday at dinner! She is the skinniest thing, and says she doesn't do

anything to maintain her weight. Well, the funny thing was, I took my usual

smaller portions, and watched in amazement as she filled up her plate fuller

than mine! And, she ate it all! So, okay... what's all that about?  Jenn<><

>

>

> hello

>

>

>  Wow, we must all be doing so well with our IE lifestyle that we don’t need

encouragement.  No one has written for a while.  Maybe everyone is vacationing.

>I hope everyone is well.

>  Vicki

> 

>  http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.comhttp://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com

http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.comhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Intuiti\

veEating_Support* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

Remember that just because she ate way more than you at that one meal doesn't mean she eats that much all of the time...My normal-eater best friend eats a lot more around the time of her cycle... and a lot less the rest of the time. She truly eats intuitively... Her eating is driven by what her body tells her it needs."Jenn S." wrote: I'm around. I've just kind of lost my obsession with IE for a couple of days... been more focused on reading articles online about some church

stuff. Still working on being an IE, though! I had the opportunity to watch a natural-eater friend, yesterday at dinner! She is the skinniest thing, and says she doesn't do anything to maintain her weight. Well, the funny thing was, I took my usual smaller portions, and watched in amazement as she filled up her plate fuller than mine! And, she ate it all! So, okay... what's all that about? Jenn <>< hello Wow, we must all be doing so well with our IE lifestyle that we don’t need encouragement. No one has written for a while. Maybe everyone is vacationing. I hope everyone is well. Vicki http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.comhttp://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.comhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/IntuitiveEating_Support* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

I know exactly what you mean. But……you

don’t know what they ate earlier or later. Usually they enjoy a big

dinner…. Then they don’t eat again until maybe something small at noon

the next day, because as they put it, “I am still full from yesterday”.

Keep watching.

Vicki

From: IntuitiveEating_Support [mailto:IntuitiveEating_Support ] On Behalf Of ccbmdb@...

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:10

PM

To: IntuitiveEating_Support

Subject: Re: Re:

hello

Jenn--

I know what you mean. I'll be out with people and be the biggest one at the

table--eating the smallest amount of food. It makes me wonder what is going

on!!

Perhaps when there isn't any excess weight on my body I will require more food.

I supposed it could be because of how active they are.

Cheryl

>From: " Jenn S. " <mizbooks94earthlink (DOT) net>

>Date: 2006/08/14 Mon PM 01:01:57 CDT

>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>Subject: Re: hello

>

>I'm around. I've just kind of lost my obsession with IE for a couple of

days... been more focused on reading articles online about some church stuff.

Still working on being an IE, though! I had the opportunity to watch a

natural-eater friend, yesterday at dinner! She is the skinniest thing, and says

she doesn't do anything to maintain her weight. Well, the funny thing was, I

took my usual smaller portions, and watched in amazement as she filled up her

plate fuller than mine! And, she ate it all! So, okay... what's all that about?

Jenn<><

>

>

[Guest guest]

True enough. And, since I don't get to observe her most of the time (this was a rare occasion), so it's not a good tell-all of how she normally eats, I suppose.

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message----- Remember that just because she ate way more than you at that one meal doesn't mean she eats that much all of the time...My normal-eater best friend eats a lot more around the time of her cycle... and a lot less the rest of the time. She truly eats intuitively... Her eating is driven by what her body tells her it needs.

http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

http://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/IntuitiveEating_Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I've actually been quiet because I am battling some doubt about this way of eating. I have gained a couple of pounds and am trying to tell myself that it's something other than the fact that I am eating non-diet foods. I have been eating less (logically, I know that) than I ate when I was counting calories. I am having some bowel issues that could be contributing to feeling bloated, but the fact that I am feeling that way and the weight gain (even though I know that it is most likely temporary) has me discouraged and I am trying not to fall back into the diet mentality because I know that doesn't work. If it did I would be thin already. It's just hard to keep that focus and not listen to the diet police voice when you do gain a little weight eating regular food.

I hope everyone else is having better experiences than me right now!

Remember the five simple rules to be happy: 1. Free your heart from hatred. 2. Free your mind from worries. 3. Live simply. 4. Give more. 5. Expect less.

Re: hello

True enough. And, since I don't get to observe her most of the time (this was a rare occasion), so it's not a good tell-all of how she normally eats, I suppose.

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message----- Remember that just because she ate way more than you at that one meal doesn't mean she eats that much all of the time...My normal-eater best friend eats a lot more around the time of her cycle... and a lot less the rest of the time. She truly eats intuitively. .. Her eating is driven by what her body tells her it needs.

http://mizbooksread s.blogspot. com

http://intuitive- eater.blogspot. com http://intuitive- eating.blogspot. com

http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ IntuitiveEating_ Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

, don't lose hope. I know how you feel. Since going back to IE I've

actually gained a few pounds which don't make me happy. But from what I

understand, once your body adjusts to getting normal, healthy food, if you're

eating in smaller amounts, you will start to lose weight til you reach the

weight that is healthy for you. It may not be as low as you'd like but it'll be

a weight that's easy to maintain. I'm trying to not think about diets since I

know diets don't work unless you stay on one strictly for the rest of your life.

And I can't see being that restrictive with food. So I'm working on listening to

my body and staying off the scale as much as I can. Hopefully the next time I do

get on the scale I'll see the numbers going down a little.

Vicki B

[Guest guest]

, I've struggled with the same self doubts about IE (intuitive eating). I've gained a few pounds since starting in May, and even tried to do WW again a couple times, but it just felt so WRONG and unnatural, the whole obsession with food, counting, weighing, measuring, eating, etc... that I couldn't do it even a full day. I'm trying my best to trust my body, and accept myself for who I am at my current weight, rather than obsessing about an "ideal" weight that I want to be at. I'm working on changing the reasons I obsess about my weight, rather than focus on the weight as the problem. Does that make sense? I hope so... cause I just woke up from a long nap and I'm a bit out of it. LOL

Hugs,

April

-----Original Message-----From: IntuitiveEating_Support [mailto:IntuitiveEating_Support ]On Behalf Of SullivanSent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:35 PMTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Subject: Re: hello

Hi all,

I've actually been quiet because I am battling some doubt about this way of eating. I have gained a couple of pounds and am trying to tell myself that it's something other than the fact that I am eating non-diet foods. I have been eating less (logically, I know that) than I ate when I was counting calories. I am having some bowel issues that could be contributing to feeling bloated, but the fact that I am feeling that way and the weight gain (even though I know that it is most likely temporary) has me discouraged and I am trying not to fall back into the diet mentality because I know that doesn't work. If it did I would be thin already. It's just hard to keep that focus and not listen to the diet police voice when you do gain a little weight eating regular food.

I hope everyone else is having better experiences than me right now!

Remember the five simple rules to be happy: 1. Free your heart from hatred. 2. Free your mind from worries. 3. Live simply. 4. Give more. 5. Expect less.

Re: hello

True enough. And, since I don't get to observe her most of the time (this was a rare occasion), so it's not a good tell-all of how she normally eats, I suppose.

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message----- Remember that just because she ate way more than you at that one meal doesn't mean she eats that much all of the time...My normal-eater best friend eats a lot more around the time of her cycle... and a lot less the rest of the time. She truly eats intuitively. .. Her eating is driven by what her body tells her it needs.http://mizbooksread s.blogspot. com

http://intuitive- eater.blogspot. com http://intuitive- eating.blogspot. com

http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ IntuitiveEating_ Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

,

I feel for ya! I was just expressing the same frustrations to my hubby tonight about myself. :-? I've been eating 0-5, for the most part, and I've been doing *some* of my workouts (maybe only 1x per week, but at least I'm doing *something*), and my snacking has been a handful of something here, or a taste of something there... not really FULL snacks.... so I don't get why my weight isn't going *down*. :-? BUT, hubby just had to (so sweetly) point out that I'm still relatively sedentary. I sit on my butt with a book, or in front of the computer for 6 hrs a day, so it's no wonder, right?

That's what mr. diet mentality says, anyway. :-?

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message-----

I've actually been quiet because I am battling some doubt about this way of eating. I have gained a couple of pounds and am trying to tell myself that it's something other than the fact that I am eating non-diet foods. I have been eating less (logically, I know that) than I ate when I was counting calories. I am having some bowel issues that could be contributing to feeling bloated, but the fact that I am feeling that way and the weight gain (even though I know that it is most likely temporary) has me discouraged and I am trying not to fall back into the diet mentality because I know that doesn't work. If it did I would be thin already. It's just hard to keep that focus and not listen to the diet police voice when you do gain a little weight eating regular food.

http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

http://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/IntuitiveEating_Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

Makes tons of sense, April, and they say that's actually the best way to go about it.... don't focus on the weight, and the weight will come off! LOL. )

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message-----

I'm working on changing the reasons I obsess about my weight, rather than focus on the weight as the problem. Does that make sense? I hope so... cause I just woke up from a long nap and I'm a bit out of it. LOL

http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

http://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/IntuitiveEating_Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I KNOW this is the right path for me. And I also know that letting go of expectations about what I should weigh is best. I have a little mantra that I repeat (not often enough apparently) "I totally and completely, love and accept my body. I only eat when I am hungry." I just need to keep on it.

Remember the five simple rules to be happy: 1. Free your heart from hatred. 2. Free your mind from worries. 3. Live simply. 4. Give more. 5. Expect less.

RE: hello

Makes tons of sense, April, and they say that's actually the best way to go about it.... don't focus on the weight, and the weight will come off! LOL. )

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message-----

I'm working on changing the reasons I obsess about my weight, rather than focus on the weight as the problem. Does that make sense? I hope so... cause I just woke up from a long nap and I'm a bit out of it. LOL

http://mizbooksread s.blogspot. com

http://intuitive- eater.blogspot. com http://intuitive- eating.blogspot. com

http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ IntuitiveEating_ Support

* NEVER DIET AGAIN! *

[Guest guest]

Just stick with it - Just tonight I left a bunch of cheese fries on the plate for dinner... I was fine with a few mouthfuls and chocolate milk... this would not have happened before...

just keep going with it... the mantra will stick in and the weight will be released.

LJ

[Guest guest]

Really, I think we should all put away our scales for a while because weight is not the correct motivation for this way of eating. Maybe I should say the more beneficial motivation is to free one's self from the bounds of food. I suppose in reality I have it easier than some because I am actually underweight, but I am an obese person in a thin person's body. I am bulimic, and am terribly disordered emotionally with food. Even though I'm underweight however, that doesn't stop me from wanting to keep track of whether I'm gaining or losing. So there again, if you stay focused on that, even if you reach your "ideal" weight, you may still think the same way like I do. I used to be obese. Anyway, I think it would really help if you stopped weighing yourself, or maybe try once a week? Weight fluctuates anyway, so once a week might be more acurate. You should really consider the validity of your doubts, because this is the natural way of eating for human beings. Diets are not

natural. You don't see any other animal dieting. Intuitive eating is common among all animals. Proof enough?aprilmae wrote: , I've struggled with the same self doubts about IE (intuitive eating). I've gained a few pounds since starting in May, and even tried to do WW again a couple times, but it just felt so WRONG and unnatural, the whole obsession with food, counting, weighing, measuring, eating, etc... that I

couldn't do it even a full day. I'm trying my best to trust my body, and accept myself for who I am at my current weight, rather than obsessing about an "ideal" weight that I want to be at. I'm working on changing the reasons I obsess about my weight, rather than focus on the weight as the problem. Does that make sense? I hope so... cause I just woke up from a long nap and I'm a bit out of it. LOL Hugs, April -----Original Message-----From: IntuitiveEating_Support [mailto:IntuitiveEating_Support ]On Behalf Of SullivanSent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:35 PMTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Subject: Re: hello Hi all, I've actually been quiet because I am battling some doubt about this way of eating. I have gained a couple of pounds and am trying to tell myself that it's something other than the fact

that I am eating non-diet foods. I have been eating less (logically, I know that) than I ate when I was counting calories. I am having some bowel issues that could be contributing to feeling bloated, but the fact that I am feeling that way and the weight gain (even though I know that it is most likely temporary) has me discouraged and I am trying not to fall back into the diet mentality because I know that doesn't work. If it did I would be thin already. It's just hard to keep that focus and not listen to the diet police voice when you do gain a little weight eating regular food. I hope everyone else is having better experiences than me right now! Remember the five simple rules to be happy: 1. Free your heart from hatred. 2. Free your mind from worries. 3. Live simply. 4. Give more. 5. Expect less. Re: hello True enough. And, since I don't get to observe her most of the time (this was a rare occasion), so it's not a good tell-all of how she normally eats, I suppose. Jenn <>< -----Original Message----- Remember that just because she ate way more than you at that one meal doesn't mean she eats that much all of the time...My normal-eater best friend eats a lot more around the time of her cycle... and a lot less the rest of the time. She truly eats intuitively. .. Her eating is driven by what her body tells her it needs.http://mizbooksread s.blogspot. comhttp://intuitive- eater.blogspot. com http://intuitive- eating.blogspot. comhttp://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ IntuitiveEating_ Support* NEVER DIET AGAIN!

*

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

,

I say my cat is an example of the IE.

My dog on the other had is a picture of a compulsive eater..LOL. He will

eat anything, any time, any where. He gulps his food down without even

tasting it.

I just had to add that, but I do

agree with you. IE doesn’t seem to work if a person is thinking

about the scales. I use to weigh myself twice a month, now once a month.

I may just give it totally up.

It is so good that you are working

on a healthy attitude toward food. I was never bulimic or anorexic but a

compulsive eater, then a compulsive dieter. I understand that emotional

attachment/hatred of food.

Vicki P.

Really, I think we should all put away our scales for a while because

weight is not the correct motivation for this way of eating. Maybe I should say

the more beneficial motivation is to free one's self from the bounds of food. I

suppose in reality I have it easier than some because I am actually

underweight, but I am an obese person in a thin person's body. I am bulimic,

and am terribly disordered emotionally with food. Even though I'm underweight

however, that doesn't stop me from wanting to keep track of whether I'm gaining

or losing. So there again, if you stay focused on that, even if you reach your

" ideal " weight, you may still think the same way like I do. I used to

be obese. Anyway, I think it would really help if you stopped weighing yourself,

or maybe try once a week? Weight fluctuates anyway, so once a week might be

more acurate. You should really consider the validity of your doubts, because

this is the natural way of eating for human beings. Diets are not natural. You

don't see any other animal dieting. Intuitive eating is common among all

animals. Proof enough?

,___

[Guest guest]

That's a good point. Dogs are like that. But then there's that whole thing about training animals to eat that way by supplying their food instead of them having to hunt for their own food. Animals can become like us in that respect. But I don't think dogs would become overweight if they were eating only what they hunted. But maybe. Even so, the fact that they can learn disordered eating doesn't mean it's still not natural for them to eat within hunger and fullness such as every animal.Vicki wrote: , I say my cat is an example of the IE. My dog on the other had is a picture of a compulsive eater..LOL. He will eat anything, any time, any where. He gulps his food down without even tasting it. I just had to add that, but I do agree with you. IE doesn’t seem to work if a person is thinking about the scales. I use to weigh myself twice a month, now once a month. I may just give it totally up. It is so good that you are working on a healthy attitude toward food. I was never bulimic or anorexic but a compulsive eater, then a compulsive dieter. I understand that emotional attachment/hatred of food. Vicki P. Really, I think we should all put away our scales for a while because weight is not the correct motivation for this way of eating. Maybe I should say the more beneficial motivation is to free one's self from the bounds of food. I suppose in reality I have it easier than some because I am actually underweight, but I am an obese person in a thin person's body. I am bulimic, and am terribly disordered emotionally with food. Even though I'm underweight however, that doesn't stop me from wanting to keep track of whether I'm gaining or losing. So there again, if you stay focused on that, even if you reach your "ideal" weight, you may still think the same way like I do. I used to be obese. Anyway, I think it would really help if you stopped weighing yourself, or maybe try once a week? Weight fluctuates anyway, so once a week might be more acurate.

You should really consider the validity of your doubts, because this is the natural way of eating for human beings. Diets are not natural. You don't see any other animal dieting. Intuitive eating is common among all animals. Proof enough? ,___

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Leisa

That's my clincher too, I say (very seriously) to myself that

although I'm full, if I desert the plate, finish eating...if I find

that in 10 seconds, I'm still hungry I can come back and eat more. I

EVEN tell myself, if you're still hungry when you get home, I'll COME

BACK AND GET IT. It's what I need to know for me to not hoard the

food and eat it then. It's like I'm scared to leave it.

V

>

> " how hungry am I? Am I just a little hungry? Am I

> somewhat hungry? Am I very hungry? " And as I eat think about how

full my

> tummy is. Is it a little full, somewhat full, feel just right, feel

>

> Sharon, I like your insights. Thanks for sharing what you found

because it

> is so helpful to me to read what others are learning. I was

thinking when I

> read what you wrote above about something that I read somewhere

that if we

> tell ourselves we are " starving " , or " ravenous " and such that we

are much

> more likely to overeat. I have noticed that when I'm really,

really hungry,

> it's easier to eat more than I need just because my head is telling

me that

> I " need " to, but if I tell myself simply that I'm hungry and give

myself the

> normal size portion, knowing that I can go back later if it's not

enough, it

> tends to be enough. It's the thinking about my tummy while I'm

eating that

> I stumble on time and again. I have learned to take no more than

half of

> what I used to would eat, eat it, then wait 20 minutes and if I'm

still

> hungry, get more. It works when I follow that plan, but I often do

listen

> to the " I'm starving " voice in my head and overeat.

>

> Leisa

>

> Hello

>

>

> > Hi Everyone

> >

> > I got my 3 books I ordered last week in the mail. If Not Diet,

Then

> > What? Calm Eating and the Empowerment Cards. As I have a sore

back

> > it's a good excuse to lie in bed and read.

> >

> > In the Introduction he made a comment about doing what works for

us. A

> > little light went on in my head. Some people have success with

> > dieting....WW has both their successful finishes, the yo yo

participants

> > who go up one week in weight and down the next, and don't seem to

be

> > getting very far. Then there are those to get to their goal

weight and

> > then come back 2 years later bigger and heavier than they were

the first

> > time they went. I think it's the same for most of the diets

around like

> > SB, Atkins, WW, Craig. When I went to the WW group on a

Friday

> > morning there was a mixed bag of us...some doing well, some yo

yoing and

> > a few life members back to lose their weight again. When the

Friday

> > morning group stopped and the Monday night group was the only one

going,

> > most of the Friday group stopped going altogether as they didn't

want to

> > go Monday night. Over the past couple of years I have seen just

about

> > everyone from that old Friday morning group, and we've all,

except for

> > one person, gotten heavier. One particular lady had lost

something like

> > 80 pounds, and now she is so big that I expect she's put that 80

pounds

> > back on.

> >

> > So what am I getting at lol lol. For me, thinking of eating

according to

> > numbers isn't working. In the Introduction of the book I've

started

> > reading Dr Kausman says " What we need to do is to gather all the

> > relevant information and find the best way of putting it together

for

> > each one of us. The best plan of action also involves working on

why we

> > are having difficulty achieving and maintaining a healthy weight,

having

> > the right perspective, and being prepared to develop our own

skills to

> > help us achieve what we want.

> >

> > It got me to thinking about why we are going with the intuitive

way of

> > eating. How many of us secretly are looking at it as a means to

lose

> > weight? I want to lose weight. I will do it only by stopping

overeating

> > and listening to my body. I'm not doing it

> > just to lose weight, but that is what one of the outcomes I

expect to

> > happen. It's one of the things I'm both hoping and expecting to

happen.

> > But I was to get the out-of -control food eating out of my life.

I want

> > to have a happy relationship with food, but the honesty part

says......I

> > want this to work, because if it does, I will lose weight.

> >

> > Numbering my hunger and full level confuses me. So I'm not going

to eat

> > by numbers anymore. I'm going to think in terms of how hungry I

feel. To

> > stop, and take note of what my stomach is doing and feeling and

to ask

> > questions more like " how hungry am I? Am I just a little hungry?

Am I

> > somewhat hungry? Am I very hungry? " And as I eat think about how

full my

> > tummy is. Is it a little full, somewhat full, feel just right,

feel

> > full? The numbers make me feel stuck in a restrictive place. I

guess

> > it's all about, like he said.....take all the information about

> > intuitive eating and find that place where it all comes together

for me.

> > Because, as he also said.....we have different issues as well

that we're

> > working on.

> >

> > Sharon

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think you can get a used copy on Amazon for about $4.

>

> No, I don't have access to a copy of the book. Library doesn't

have it, and I can't afford to buy a copy right now. But, I've

looked at his website. )

>

> Thanks!

>

> Jenn

> <><

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> >Jen, I know I have said this before but have you read The Overfed

> >Head by Rob s? There is hardly a question he doesn't

answer.

> >It is short and very concise.

>

> Books Read: http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

> Faith Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unshakablefocus

> Healthy Eating: http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

> Wishlist: http://www.librarything.com/catalog/mizbooks94

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly! )

Jenn

<><

-----Original Message-----

>I find myself thinking " I wonder how much I can eat before I feel full " Perhaps

if I changed to " I wonder how little I can eat and be satisfied " it would change

my focus. Focusing on eating as much as I can before fullness, makes me keep

taking bites.

Books Read: http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

Faith Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unshakablefocus

Healthy Eating: http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

Wishlist: http://www.librarything.com/catalog/mizbooks94

[Guest guest]

Jenn,

Can you get an ILL (inter-library loan)? We do that for Our patrons. We find a library that has it and you can borrow it free of charge.

Rhonda

-- Re: Re: Hello

No, I don't have access to a copy of the book. Library doesn't have it, and I can't afford to buy a copy right now. But, I've looked at his website. )Thanks!Jenn<><-----Original Message----->Jen, I know I have said this before but have you read The Overfed >Head by Rob s? There is hardly a question he doesn't answer. >It is short and very concise. Books Read: http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.comFaith Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unshakablefocusHealthy Eating: http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.comWishlist: http://www.librarything.com/catalog/mizbooks94

[Guest guest]

Welcome , and yes, it alllllll sounds familiar. Honestly, the

book was very helpful in identifying some of the normal enemies we've

set up while dieting. I read the book cover to cover (I'm not a big

book reader, can't find a lot of time) and honestly every word made

sense. Then you practice what the book tells you, practice trusting

yourself and knowing that it's okay to eat. Give yourself the time

to eat what you want. I remember it was a solid week for me and I was

so afraid of gaining but I decided that if I couldn't trust me, I'd

trust them and if I gained, it' would be their fault ahahah.

Seriously though it's not a diet program but it is one that helps you

realize that most of us are eating more than needed and for different

reasons than hunger. Good luck and welcome!

V

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I joined your group after doing a search for " Intuitive Eating "

message boards. I just recently bought the book by Tribole

and am about 3/4 of the way done reading it. I read about it in an

article about Katheirne McPhee from " American Idol " . I'm sure you

all saw that.

>

> I am 46-yrs old, mother of one 4-yr-old boy and a professional

musician. I am about 40 lbs overweight and have been " on a diet " for

my entire life. In fact, I used to tell people that everyone morning

when I wake up, I start a diet. I've been on countless diets and

always gain the weight back (sound familiar?). My latest diet

was " The Sonoma Diet " where I lost 10 lbs. I don't know what

triggered it but I started to lose control and couldn't stop

eating " bad foods " . I've gained all that weight back and a few more

pounds (I haven't weighed myself - I'm too scared). Now, I finally

got to the place where I can't stand the thought of another diet. I

just can't do it. The " IE " book has been really eye-opening for me.

I know that if I can really adopt the whole mind-set of IE, I will be

happier and healther for the rest of my life. And, thinner too.

>

> My problem is, I know I'm doing this because I want to lose

weight. I also want to feel good and be healthy, but my #1 priority

is to lose weight. I can't seem to get my focus off of that. How

can I get past that? It is so difficult to accept myself presently

the way I look. I tried on a skirt the other day that used to be

loose and it was too tight (probably a bad idea to do that on the 1st

day of my period).

>

> The other problem I'm having is not being able to stop myself when

eating something I really love that is a " sometimes food " . My

biggest weakness is cookies. Especially really soft, doughy, sugar

cookies. After reading the chapter in the book about allowing

yourself to eat whatever you want, I made a batch of sugar cookie

dough because that is the thing I love most. I ate most of the dough

and only baked about 6 large cookies. I couldn't stop at just one

cookie or one taste of dough. It's kind of a scary feeling - an

uncontrollable feeling. I decided not to do that again. If I don't

have it in the house, I won't eat it. I know that's not the right

way to deal with it but I don't know what else to do. Any

suggestions?

>

> I'm looking forward to becoming part of your group. Thank you all.

>

> Sincerely,

> O.

>

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

>I am 46-yrs old, mother of one 4-yr-old boy and a professional musician.

*** Hi, ! Welcome to the group. ) Wow... a professional musician! That's

neat! What do you play? (I play piano, by ear, and have played the flute, too).

>>(I haven't weighed myself - I'm too scared).

*** Scales are monsters, anyway. Good riddance! LOL

>My problem is, I know I'm doing this because I want to lose weight. I also

want to feel good and be healthy, but my #1 priority is to lose weight. I can't

seem to get my focus off of that. How can I get past that? It is so difficult

to accept myself presently the way I look.

*** Nothing wrong with wanting to lose weight. But, it's good that you have

other goals, too. Maybe write out why it's so imporant to you... discover the

underlying reasons. )

>The other problem I'm having is not being able to stop myself when eating

something I really love that is a " sometimes food " . My biggest weakness is

cookies.

*** Yeah, I understand that. My weakness is caffeine -- chocolate & pop, mainly.

I just blogged about that, yesterday: http://intuitive-eater.blogspot.com

>>I decided not to do that again. If I don't have it in the house, I won't eat

it. I know that's not the right way to deal with it but I don't know what else

to do. Any suggestions?

*** Yep! You don't have to restrict any foods, especially your favorites -- just

wait for hunger. When you're hungry, eat what you love! That's the great part

about intuitive eating. We can eat what we love, so long as we do so within the

boundaries of " hunger " and " satiety " . It takes a lot of practice & time &

patience to learn what " hunger " and " satisfied " are for you, personally, so

don't beat yourself up if you don't get it right away. Heck, I've been doing

this since July 2005, and I've still not got it down pat! I know where " hunger "

is for me, but that " satisfied " point has remained pretty elusive. I think I'm

getting it, but I've not gotten it completely yet.

Hang in there! This group will help! )

Jenn

<><

Books Read: http://mizbooksreads.blogspot.com

Faith Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unshakablefocus

Healthy Eating: http://intuitive-eating.blogspot.com

Wishlist: http://www.librarything.com/catalog/mizbooks94

[Guest guest]

Hi --

Even though the authors of IE talk about legalizig ALL foods, I think it is

perfectly okay to delay legalizing things that really tempt you--sugar cookies

for you. I think it is perfectly okay to stay away from a food that would be

difficult to limit yourself--until you've had some success with pushing food

away or you've eaten to a comfortable level consistently.

Cheryl

>

>Date: 2006/09/19 Tue AM 12:45:44 CDT

>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>Subject: Hello

>

>Hello everyone, I joined your group after doing a search for " Intuitive Eating "

message boards.  I just recently bought the book by Tribole and am about

3/4 of the way done reading it.  I read about it in an article about Katheirne

McPhee from " American Idol " .  I'm sure you all saw that. I am 46-yrs old, mother

of one 4-yr-old boy and a professional musician.  I am about 40 lbs overweight

and have been " on a diet " for my entire life.  In fact, I used to tell people

that everyone morning when I wake up, I start a diet.  I've been on countless

diets and always gain the weight back (sound familiar?).  My latest diet was

" The Sonoma Diet " where I lost 10 lbs.  I don't know what triggered it but I

started to lose control and couldn't stop eating " bad foods " .  I've gained all

that weight back and a few more pounds (I haven't weighed myself - I'm too

scared).  Now, I finally got to the place where I can't stand the thought of

another diet.  I just can't do it.  The " IE " book has been really eye-opening

for me.  I know that if I can really adopt the whole mind-set of IE, I will be

happier and healther for the rest of my life.  And, thinner too. 

>

>My problem is, I know I'm doing this because I want to lose weight.  I also

want to feel good and be healthy, but my #1 priority is to lose weight.  I can't

seem to get my focus off of that.  How can I get past that?  It is so difficult

to accept myself presently the way I look.  I tried on a skirt the other day

that used to be loose and it was too tight (probably a bad idea to do that on

the 1st day of my period).   The other problem I'm having is not being able to

stop myself when eating something I really love that is a " sometimes food " .  My

biggest weakness is cookies.  Especially really soft, doughy, sugar cookies. 

After reading the chapter in the book about allowing yourself to eat whatever

you want, I made a batch of sugar cookie dough because that is the thing I love

most.  I ate most of the dough and only baked about 6 large cookies.  I couldn't

stop at just one cookie or one taste of dough.  It's kind of a scary feeling -

an uncontrollable feeling.  I decided not to do that again.  If I don't have it

in the house, I won't eat it.  I know that's not the right way to deal with it

but I don't know what else to do.  Any suggestions? I'm looking forward to

becoming part of your group.  Thank you all. Sincerely, O.