stones are formed inside liver?

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The question was:

Why aren't doctors aware of the fact that stones are formed inside liver?

Answer:

If you don't want to be aware of something, then you just don't want, and

nobody can help with that.

Are there any data that prove fact that stones are formed inside liver?

Answer:

A lot, if you want to search for it.

A friend of mine, Lillian, was working in a hospital in Oslo where surgeries

are performed daily.

She has seen files of hundreds of patients who came back with a pain, stone

lodged inside common bile duct, AFTER gallbladder was removed some times ago.

She has even read files of people who were coming back 7 times for the same

procedure, once every year!

Where do their stones come from? Gallbladder that was removed 7 years ago?

I have read several stories of people suffering from the stone lodged inside

common bile duct, sometimes just a few days after surgery, sometimes years

after surgery.

The only place where those stones could have been formed is inside bile ducts.

If it is intrahepatic bile ducts, or it is common bile duct, we don't know, but

most likely it is intrahepatic bile ducts.

Regardless, the fact is, bile ducts can hold bile, bile can become stagnant,

and stones can be formed inside bile ducts.

If you are unable to understand this, or to accept this, then I can't help you.

Do you need more proof that stones are formed inside liver?

Why aren't doctors aware of the fact that stones are formed inside liver?

There are 3 possible answers:

1. They are stupid and unable to make that conclusion (most likely not).

2. They are smart but they don't want to risk loosing patients or don't want to

go against the mainstream.

3. They are smart but someone told them not to think too much about that, if

they want to keep their job.

You pick the answer(s) that most likely describes your doctor.

Few stories: (Read it!)

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http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?MessageID=179 & ForumID=4 & P=4

Subject: Re: Re: Liver cleanse w/ parasite and colon cleanse while

breastfeeding

From: < >

Date: 11:38 Jan 05 2002

> Do you, as health profesional, have any contact with people after surgery ?

My job is to assist the doctor, with images, while doing the surgery. I really

don't inter-act with the patient much after sugery except for an occasional

post op film. I can tell you about the surgery itself since I am there through

the whole thing and can watch on the tv screen (laproscope) while the

gallbladder is removed.

I am an x-ray tech and I run a c-arm during surgery. The c-arm is a mobile

florascopy machine that takes real time images of the body so the doctor can

check for problems in the bile ducts. It does the same thing as the machines

used in the x-ray department for upper and lower gi's. After removing the

gallbladder the doctor will inject contrast media (dye) in to the bile ducts

which causes them to show up on x-ray. This is usually done after the actual

removal of the (usually healthy looking)gallbladder. The thing that concerns me

most about this procedure is that it is routinely done on very young people,

early 20's and younger. Some doctors are very rough with the contents of a

persons abdomen. Pulling and tugging on your insides like that can't be good,

not to mention the cauterizer, it actually burns the tissue that holds the

gallbladder to the liver to prepare for it's removal. It is not a proceedure

that I want to go through!

> Do you know of any negative side efect of surgery ?

There are negative side effects to all surgeries! I believe in avoiding surgery

at all cost. I have seen some real doctor " flub ups " on pt's. Sometimes, though

rare, fistulas are formed between organs after surgery or they can be

spontaineous for someone who is very ill. One very serious case was a woman

with a fistula between her lung and colon. The doctor discovered this situation

while the pt was undergoing a lower gi and started coughing up barium. Pretty

gross, huh? She had also been complaining of very bad breath. This was a case

where the woman had surgery on her colon and in the process of healing itself

the body formed a fistula.

I can't say that I have any clinically proven things I can tell you but I do

know a young woman who had her gallbladder removed a few years ago. She is in

the ER quit often with chest and abdominal pain. I can't say that this is a

result of her gallbladder surgery, but I highly suspect it is, considering she

is in her early 20's and otherwise very healthy.

> Does it happens that people come again for surgery, because of stones inside

bile ducts ?

Well, stones in the bile ducts is a common occurence. In a county community of

around 40,000 people our department does about 10 ercp's a week. About half of

those have a stone in the bile ducts. Some have had gallbladder removal and

some have not. So with or without gallbladder removal stones are still a

problem. Why remove the gallbladder if it won't solve the problem! duh!!!

> Do you know what percentage of people develop irritable bowel syndrome after

gallbladder surgery ?

I really wouldn't know about this one but the woman I mentioned earlier does

have collitis.

> Do you know if there is any link between gallbladder surgery and heart

diseases - heart attack ?

I wish I knew, but it would make sense that this could happen considering the

contents of gallstones. Gallstones being a sign of bad diet choices.

The truth about healthcare is that most people see a specialist for this

surgery and after the gallbladder is removed they usually go back to thier

family doctor and are referred to another specialist for diffrent problems, so

tracking the connections would be almost impossible.

I hope this info helps.

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http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?MessageID=521 & ForumID=4 & P=17

Subject: possible stone in bile duck

From: andrea < andrea_skates@... >

Date: Today 12:46 Feb 22 2002

I have been experienc pain which is similar to the discomfort I had when I

had my gallbladder out. My doctor thinks it's a stone from my liver

which is lodged in my bile duck. he ordered a cat scan which is scheduled

for march 1.

what kind of advise can you give me? is there anyway i can get rid of

this with a fast or something?

thank you.

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>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:46:28 -0800

>From: Steve Barwick <barwick@...>

>Agnes <agnes@...>

>

>Hi Agnes,

>

>I did indeed end up having my GB removed surgically. The GB attacks

>were just coming too fast and too furiously, several times a day. It

>got to the point where absolutely nothing could stop them. I tried

>everything imaginable. But I ended up in the ER for the third time on

>Dec. 10th, screaming in agony. I had not been able to eat anything

>other than a few swallows of soup each day for the past 20 days. And

>even trying to drink a glass of water would cause an attack, so I was

>completely dehydrated. I just couldn't go on like that any longer.

>

>I had the GB surgery the 13th. But the attacks continued unabated for

>the next seven days because the surgeon had left a stone in the ducts!

>So, I had to have the ERCP procedure on the 21st to have the stone

>removed. What a mess!

>

>I am still having problems with pain in the right side under the rib

>cage, and of course the doctors are at a loss as to how to explain it

>all. Plus, there is still a lot of digestive upset after eating. (The

>doctors are probably going to test my pancreas next, to make sure it is

>producing enzymes correctly.) Plus, I am having sharp pains just below

>the sternum, which they think may be a hiatal hernia.

>

>Anyway, it has been a nightmare, and I will write about it more

>extensively to the gallstone support group as soon as I am a bit more

>recovered. Right now I still have overwhelming fatigue, and difficulty

>in thinking. I used to work 10-15 hour days, but now even two hours

>completely wipes me out. My opinion is that the anesthesia from the

>first surgery on the 13th, and the drugs used for the ERCP procedure on

>the 21st, combined to caused some problems within my brain. And there

>may be thyroid problems, now, too, because I am very fatigued and my

>hands are cold all the time. I will tell the gallstone group how

>important it is not to wait as long as I did before doing the

>alternative methods for saving the gallbladder. I sure wish I hadn't

>hesitated for three months. By the time I finally did the flush, my GB

>was just too far gone.

>

>Anyway, at this point my greatest suspicion is that my liver is

>dysfunctional, so I am reading Dr. Sandar Cabot's material on liver

>cleansing, and starting on her supplement regimen.

>

>Thanks again for your kindness,

>Steve Barwick

>

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http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?MessageID=306 & ForumID=4 & P=8

Subject: Re: Re: Re: need help before ERCP

From: Adrienne < adriennelynn1@... >

Date: 22:05 Jan 24 2002

Hi,

Two weeks after my GB surgery, I did my first liver cleanse. I'm a 44 yr. old

female. I was still having " attacks. " My surgeon said I needed an ERCP because

he thought I still had a stone stuck in the common bile duct. I didn't want to

go through another medical procedure, so I did the liver cleanse. I was in

severe pain if I ate any fat. The first cleanse brought immediate relief- I

followed Dr. Hulda 's cleanse exactly and passed many stones. Two weeks

later I did another cleanse and I've been pain free and symptom free ever

since. I've done a total of 6 cleanses and am still passing stones. I don't

know how to answer your questions about taking your medications, but I do know

that the cleanse will flush out any stone in the common bile duct. I would

think that an ERCP would be able to diagnose a more severe problem--like one

involving the pancreas--one person posted that they had a stone stuck in the

pancreas, and needed more surgery.

Adrienne

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http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?MessageID=298 & ForumID=4 & P=8

Subject: need help before ERCP

From: midget < rgrundt@... >

Date: 11:05 Jan 24 2002 | REPLY |¤| All Messages |

I am scheduled for an ERCP this coming Tues.29th, but would like some help. I

was hospitalized in Dec with gallstone attack, since then still having pain,

lots of it. Dr believes one is stuck in common bile duct wants to do ERCP. Can

I do this flush while in pain? Do I need to do the parasite flush first? I'm

running out of time. Had a miserable time sleeping last night with pain. I

don't know what to eat so I don't experience so much pain. Help. Had

gallbladder removed back in 94. Please help

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From: Sara Klein Ridgley, PhD SaraKlein@...

I tend to agree with you somewhat on the nature of the soluble stones.

However, when I did the cleanse both for myself and with clients, what I found

was both kinds were there. In several cases where the people were scheduled for

gallbladder surgery and we did the cleanse beforehand, there was no sign of the

stones upon ultrasound scan.

One woman, who was 86 at the time (11 years ago), collected the stones (that

were rock hard) and put them in a jar, and took them to her physician. She

announced that " this doctor from America (I was visiting another country when

this happened...) took my stones out " . The doctor first thought that she was

nuts, but when she showed him the jar, he went white in the face. Then he

ordered another ultrasound and found the gallstones that were there the week

before were gone. This woman is still alive and kicking happily and in good

health!

I have noticed, for example, that many, many people who undergo gallbaldder

removal surgically, become depressed shortly thereafter.

I also have thoughts and " speculations " regarding the energy/spiritual factors

behind gallbladder problems, but that's another story..

I have used another flush, which is very simple, very safe, yet very

dramatic, and even old people with various ailments can do it safely.

However, I always like to observe, assist and take care that nothing

strange goes on (My control issues? maybe, or just caution...).

This one involves 5 days of preparation with eliminating all fat from the diet,

and it includes epsom salts, olive oil and freshly squeezed grapefruit juice. I

usually do a kidney cleanse prior to the liver/gallbladder flush, which

dramatically improves the body's ability to handle the flush.-----

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