Re: burning after BM-Seema

[Guest guest]

Seema,

I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in

vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard. I

don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.

I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.

Melinda

Seema wrote:

Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

> movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after

> that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

> neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a

> bowel movement. Thanks.

>

> Seema

[Guest guest]

> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right

after

> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I

have a

> > bowel movement. Thanks.

> >

> > Seema

I have this also...the harder I push the more burning there is. I

aslo have urethral pain and bladder spasms after that. I think it is

muscles. I have been looking up info on Pelvic Floor Dysfunction as

I think that has something to do with things I am experiencing.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

I have the same experience. If I have rectal burning it spreads to the vulva

area and causes much burning. Many women on the list have reported the same

thing. I think it might be because maybe the body temperature down there

increases with the irritation and makes it spread around. Many spicy foods

cause me to have intestinal irritation and then it spreads to the vulva area.

So I stay away from the spices.

Ora

On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:27:18 -0600, Melinda

wrote:

>Seema,

>I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in

>vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard. I

>don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.

>I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.

>Melinda

>

>Seema wrote:

>Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

>> movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after

>> that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

>> neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a

>> bowel movement. Thanks.

>>

>> Seema

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I used to have exactly the same problem with the burning after bowel movements as if I had eaten chillies or something! That used to exacerbate the burning vulval and soreness in my urethra (though at the time I couldnt really that particular pain to the location). This was a few years back (I have had VV for arund 10 years).... but only medically diagnosed about a year ago. Originally I was told the pain in my vulva was thrush and the internal stuff seemed to be cystitis related.... I used Canesten cream all the time, but it never did me any favours... I tried the anti-candida diet and stuck to it religiously for just over six months.....I felt generally more healthy for it and I do think I had too much of the candida bacteria. anyway, the vulval burning didnt go, but the bottom buring did! I am not convinced that yeast caused my VV - I think it started with a really bad urinary infection - the amount of anti-biotics quite possibly caused a yeast 'overdose' which spread to the intestines. I think this is what caused the painful bowel movements... it's worth considering - and if you do the anti-candida diet well it can be a healthy way to live.... by the way, I dont practice it now and the painful bowel movements never came back....

all the best,

Lucy

Re: Re: burning after BM-Seema

I have the same experience. If I have rectal burning it spreads to the vulvaarea and causes much burning. Many women on the list have reported the samething. I think it might be because maybe the body temperature down thereincreases with the irritation and makes it spread around. Many spicy foodscause me to have intestinal irritation and then it spreads to the vulva area.So I stay away from the spices.OraOn Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:27:18 -0600, Melinda wrote:>Seema,>I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in>vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard. I>don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.>I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.>Melinda>>Seema wrote:>Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel>> movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after>> that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was>> neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a>> bowel movement. Thanks.>>>> Seema>*****END OF MESSAGE*****-------------------------------------------------To post message: VulvarDisorders To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner *****

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who responded. I also don't buy this - " you're

wiping too hard! " I think it's got to be muscular. My naturopathic

doctor said if it was yeast, I would have noticed a lot of

improvement with the regime that I was doing. I don't think it's

yeast but muscle floor dysfunction. My problem is finding a

competent PT. I found one who is familiar with vv - but that's all I

could find in Arizona - there wasn't any that really specialized and

knew a lot about it. It is frustrating!!

Love,

Seema

> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right

after

> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I

have a

> > bowel movement. Thanks.

> >

> > Seema

[Guest guest]

Here is some interesting information from today's Peoples' Pharmacy column

in my newspaper. For those of you with rectal problems and perhaps others.

" Q: When I first developed hemorrhoids, I called my doctor, and she

suggested surgery, but I didn't want to go under the knife. A favoite book

about foods that heal suggested applying the inside of a banana peel to the

affected area. It also recommended a pill, rutin. I tried both approaches,

and within three days I had no sign of hemorrhoids. "

" A: We were fascinated by your use of rutin, since this flavonoid is a

constituent in many herbs, including chamomile, elderberry and hawthorn.

Getting the banana peel to stay in position might be a challange, but no

more so than a cabbage leaf. We heard from another person:

'When I was in Italy, my mother-in-law used cabbage as a hemorrhoid relief.

I guess cabbage has been used for years for relief from soreness, pain and

swelling.' "

This is Marilyn A. now.

I have heard of using cabbage leaves to relieve sore breasts when breast

feeding. Just some interesting info some of you may want to try out.

Marilyn A.

Re: burning after BM-Seema

> Seema,

> I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in

> vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard.

I

> don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.

> I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.

> Melinda

>

> Seema wrote:

> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after

> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a

> > bowel movement. Thanks.

> >

> > Seema

>

>

>

> *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> -------------------------------------------------

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> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

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>

> *****

[Guest guest]

Seema, have you tried valium? it is suppose to be the best medication for Pelvic floor dysfunction. Also have you tried baclofen or zanaflex which are also muscle relaxers that seem to work down there.

Traci

Re: burning after BM-Seema

Hi, Thanks to everyone who responded. I also don't buy this - "you're wiping too hard!" I think it's got to be muscular. My naturopathic doctor said if it was yeast, I would have noticed a lot of improvement with the regime that I was doing. I don't think it's yeast but muscle floor dysfunction. My problem is finding a competent PT. I found one who is familiar with vv - but that's all I could find in Arizona - there wasn't any that really specialized and knew a lot about it. It is frustrating!! Love,Seema> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a> > bowel movement. Thanks.> >> > Seema*****END OF MESSAGE*****-------------------------------------------------To post message: VulvarDisorders To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner *****

[Guest guest]

Melinda,

Yes, the msucle is the problem. Since the Levator ani and the other msucle of

the floor run from front to back the BM stretches the muscles ( hey I spelled it

right) and you feel it anywere the muscles are found,

like around the vagina. This is a classic symptom for pelvic floor dysfunction

but not everyone gets this particular response to the BM.

TKOPT

www.tomocklerpt.com

Melinda wrote:

> Seema,

> I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in

> vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard. I

> don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.

> I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.

> Melinda

>

> Seema wrote:

> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after

> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a

> > bowel movement. Thanks.

> >

> > Seema

>

>

> *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> -------------------------------------------------

> To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

> List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

>

> *****

[Guest guest]

Melinda,

Yes, the msucle is the problem. Since the Levator ani and the other msucle of

the floor run from front to back the BM stretches the muscles ( hey I spelled it

right) and you feel it anywere the muscles are found,

like around the vagina. This is a classic symptom for pelvic floor dysfunction

but not everyone gets this particular response to the BM.

TKOPT

www.tomocklerpt.com

Melinda wrote:

> Seema,

> I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in

> vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard. I

> don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.

> I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.

> Melinda

>

> Seema wrote:

> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after

> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a

> > bowel movement. Thanks.

> >

> > Seema

>

>

> *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> -------------------------------------------------

> To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

> List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

>

> *****

[Guest guest]

I get it sometimes but not every time I have a bm. Usually it does not get me

but occasionally it does. If it was the levator ani why doesn't it happen every

time.

Ora

>Melinda,

>Yes, the msucle is the problem. Since the Levator ani and the other msucle of

the floor run from front to back the BM stretches the muscles ( hey I spelled it

right) and you feel it anywere the muscles are found,

>like around the vagina. This is a classic symptom for pelvic floor dysfunction

but not everyone gets this particular response to the BM.

>TKOPT

>www.tomocklerpt.com

>

>Melinda wrote:

>

>> Seema,

>> I have the same problem-after BM's I have rectal burning and burning in

>> vaginal/vulva afterwards. My dr always said its b/c mabe I wipe to hard. I

>> don't buy that, b/c before I even wipe it starts.

>> I was also wondering if it was related to a muscle.

>> Melinda

>>

>> Seema wrote:

>> Also - this is weird - I noticed that when I have a bowel

>> > movement, I get rectal burning and then vaginal burning right after

>> > that. Can this be muscular related to? I thought maybe it was

>> > neuropathic, but I really don't get the rectal burning unless I have a

>> > bowel movement. Thanks.

>> >

>> > Seema

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small anal

fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles spasming

cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I start to

develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to heal a fissure

- 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing that heals

mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the muscle. Even

after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly don't know

what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is neuropathic

or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I just don't

have the knowledge.

What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the rectal pain as

well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle energy

technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic muscle floor

dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so sure if I

have the right PT though - most of her work is external and not

internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from internal

vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually thought to

myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go live in

Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know if physical

therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain every day

anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months would be

enough time? Or is this something that is just not feasible and is

out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

Seema

[Guest guest]

Hi Seema,

It is actually both neuropathinc and muscular! With a bit of orthopedic as well.

The asymmetry of the pelvis causes increase muscle tension and eventually

squeezes the pudendal nerve and vessels. This in turn causes more irritation

and creates guess what...even more muscle spasm. Once the pelvis

and sacrum are level and symmetrical then you start working on the floor msucles

with Counterstrain and direct internal work. If you jsut get the internal work

without a balanced vault then the symptoms will return

at some point. Often there is such " bad Memory " in the floor tissue that just

the thought of getting the pain again causes the floor to tighten up.

Relaxation is a big key!! That is why many oif the contributors say

they have decreased symptoms when on some type of SSRI like Paxil, Celexa,

Zoloft, Welbutrin, etc. ( Long Island Ice Tea is my favorite.)

Direct internal massage through the rectum and vagina as well as external

through the tissues surrounding the pelvic floor is what you should be getting.

I am a firm believer that once the normal blood flow is is re-established then

the muscle/ tissue work goes much faster and is much more effective and lasting.

I haven't treated anyone for more than 10 visits total

and getting the pelvis to balance and hold usually takes less than 3. So even

though Cleveland has some great things to see and do I wouldn't take more than a

week or two's vaccation. Don't give up Seema...stay

focused in your resolve to beat this.

Start right now to take deeper breaths, slower and deeper so you don't pass out.

Do you smoke??? If yes you must quit!!! Anything that decreases oxygen must be

stopped!!!

Where do you live???

TKOPT

seema_sura wrote:

> Hi Tom,

> Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small anal

> fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles spasming

> cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I start to

> develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to heal a fissure

> - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing that heals

> mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the muscle. Even

> after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly don't know

> what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is neuropathic

> or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I just don't

> have the knowledge.

> What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the rectal pain as

> well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle energy

> technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic muscle floor

> dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so sure if I

> have the right PT though - most of her work is external and not

> internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from internal

> vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually thought to

> myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go live in

> Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know if physical

> therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain every day

> anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months would be

> enough time? Or is this something that is just not feasible and is

> out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

>

> Seema

>

>

> *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> -------------------------------------------------

> To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

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> List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

>

> *****

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

I will probably give you a phone call to talk about my situation -

when is a good time to call you? I was very surprised when you said

10 visits total. May I ask - how is that possible? The lady I am

seeing does counterstrain/muscle energy technique and we've already

had 6 sessions. I know that physical therapy may not even be the

answer for me - it's just that I get so desperate!!

I live in Phoenix, Arizona (a long way from Cleveland!). I also

should mention that the PT I am seeing told me I also have scoliosis

and wants me to wear a shoe lift. I am wearing it but sometimes, the

lift bothers me. Also, I never wear shoes in the house so I guess I

am not as diligent in this. Would me having scoliosis probably

stretch out the number of visits? I'm sorry to be so dubious - it's

just that it seems like the women here have had months of physical

therapy and I was just wondering how you are able to get results so

quickly. Thank you for your encouragement - it just seems like

everything I try fails. Good thing - I don't smoke or anything like

that. I haven't had a drink in a year because the doctors/naturopaths

tell me not to. But, I sure would love a Long Island Iced Tea as

well!!

Seema

>

> > Hi Tom,

> > Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small anal

> > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles spasming

> > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I start

to

> > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to heal a

fissure

> > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing that

heals

> > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the muscle.

Even

> > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly don't

know

> > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is

neuropathic

> > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I just

don't

> > have the knowledge.

> > What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the rectal

pain as

> > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle energy

> > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic muscle

floor

> > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so sure if

I

> > have the right PT though - most of her work is external and not

> > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from

internal

> > vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually thought

to

> > myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go live

in

> > Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know if

physical

> > therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain every

day

> > anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months would

be

> > enough time? Or is this something that is just not feasible and

is

> > out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

> >

> > Seema

> >

> >

> > *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> > -------------------------------------------------

> > To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

> > To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe@y...

> > Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe@y...

> > List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner@y...

> >

> > *****

[Guest guest]

I forgot to ask you, how many women have you successfully treated with

vestibulitis (and if you don't mind answering this one, how many were

not able to get improvement). Also, I remember you said you

rarely do internal work - then in my case, do you believe

rectal/vaginal massage would not be something you would do. I don't

think anyone would want to give a rectal massage to anyone - I can

imagine it being unpleasant for the PT as well!! Thanks again.

Seema

> >

> > > Hi Tom,

> > > Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small anal

> > > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles

spasming

> > > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I

start

> to

> > > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to heal a

> fissure

> > > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing that

> heals

> > > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the muscle.

> Even

> > > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly don't

> know

> > > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is

> neuropathic

> > > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I just

> don't

> > > have the knowledge.

> > > What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the rectal

> pain as

> > > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle energy

> > > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic muscle

> floor

> > > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so sure

if

> I

> > > have the right PT though - most of her work is external and not

> > > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from

> internal

> > > vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually

thought

> to

> > > myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go

live

> in

> > > Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know if

> physical

> > > therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain

every

> day

> > > anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months

would

> be

> > > enough time? Or is this something that is just not feasible and

> is

> > > out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

> > >

> > > Seema

> > >

> > >

> > > *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> > > -------------------------------------------------

> > > To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

> > > To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe@y...

> > > Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe@y...

> > > List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner@y...

> > >

> > > *****

[Guest guest]

Seema, I've probably mentioned before that rectal

massage is what helped me heal my fissures. I used

nitro, too, but it was only when my doctor added

rectal massage to my PT regimen (and the PT that my

husband does for me at home) that I actually *healed*.

Massaging the pelvic muscles in the rectum got them

to relax, and that permitted blood flow, which is so

critical for healing. My husband still does rectal

massage on me at least twice a week, to make sure my

muscles are staying loose. I am convinced it is why I

haven't had that horrible fissure pain in several

months (knock on wood!). Originally, my PT was not

going to start internal work (the idea is to get the

pelvis symmetric first, and then work internally).

But when it became obvious that I needed internal work

for my fissures, it got started a little ahead of

schedule.

Take care.

Suzy

--- seema_sura wrote:

> Hi Tom,

> Thanks for your response. Today, I had another

> small anal

> fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight

> muscles spasming

> cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In

> turn, I start to

> develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids

> to heal a fissure

> - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only

> thing that heals

> mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes

> the muscle. Even

> after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I

> honestly don't know

> what to do anymore. How can you tell if your

> condition is neuropathic

> or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor

> and I just don't

> have the knowledge.

> What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve

> the rectal pain as

> well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on

> muscle energy

> technique and counterstrain and is familiar with

> pelvic muscle floor

> dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am

> not so sure if I

> have the right PT though - most of her work is

> external and not

> internal. It seems like a lot of these women got

> help from internal

> vaginal work

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Seema, I've probably mentioned before that rectal

massage is what helped me heal my fissures. I used

nitro, too, but it was only when my doctor added

rectal massage to my PT regimen (and the PT that my

husband does for me at home) that I actually *healed*.

Massaging the pelvic muscles in the rectum got them

to relax, and that permitted blood flow, which is so

critical for healing. My husband still does rectal

massage on me at least twice a week, to make sure my

muscles are staying loose. I am convinced it is why I

haven't had that horrible fissure pain in several

months (knock on wood!). Originally, my PT was not

going to start internal work (the idea is to get the

pelvis symmetric first, and then work internally).

But when it became obvious that I needed internal work

for my fissures, it got started a little ahead of

schedule.

Take care.

Suzy

--- seema_sura wrote:

> Hi Tom,

> Thanks for your response. Today, I had another

> small anal

> fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight

> muscles spasming

> cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In

> turn, I start to

> develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids

> to heal a fissure

> - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only

> thing that heals

> mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes

> the muscle. Even

> after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I

> honestly don't know

> what to do anymore. How can you tell if your

> condition is neuropathic

> or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor

> and I just don't

> have the knowledge.

> What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve

> the rectal pain as

> well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on

> muscle energy

> technique and counterstrain and is familiar with

> pelvic muscle floor

> dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am

> not so sure if I

> have the right PT though - most of her work is

> external and not

> internal. It seems like a lot of these women got

> help from internal

> vaginal work

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

seema_sura@...

I get rectal work from a PT all the time, well not like every day, but every now and then, twice a month at the moment, she is a cranial sacral visceral manipulation specialist, which never seems to help, but the pt does help...people also fly to see from all over..she travels and trains other pts from all over the world..she did lots of training in europe herself.. Jackie Not much different than the pelvic floor, none of it is fun, but after a while you just begin to see it all as muscle...would I rather not do this, you bet your boodie

[Guest guest]

Keep in mind that I treat a variety of disorders in my practice not jsut VV stuff.

I also try to spend a full hour with patients so we can get alot accomplished.So when I guestimate 10 visits that would be an average. Very few thearapist have the luxury

This is true, Idon't feel much can be accomplished in 20-30 min. which is why I usually don't work with traditional PT's, amazing how little time they actually spend with you...so much time spent with hot packs, or tens units by assistants...Jackie

[Guest guest]

For those of you who have this therapy could you please kinda explain it maybe? And also can you explain what your docs told you as to why you need this type of treatment? For those of us who seem to have like a yeast problem causing this pain and stuff do you think that this massage would help with something like that? Also do you flare first after you have the therapy? I have heard from several people that this can make you flare first before getting better? Has anyone used that neocontrol chair therapy?

Thanks

Traci

Re: Re: burning after BM-Seema

Seema, I've probably mentioned before that rectalmassage is what helped me heal my fissures. I usednitro, too, but it was only when my doctor addedrectal massage to my PT regimen (and the PT that myhusband does for me at home) that I actually *healed*.Massaging the pelvic muscles in the rectum got themto relax, and that permitted blood flow, which is socritical for healing. My husband still does rectalmassage on me at least twice a week, to make sure mymuscles are staying loose. I am convinced it is why Ihaven't had that horrible fissure pain in severalmonths (knock on wood!). Originally, my PT was notgoing to start internal work (the idea is to get thepelvis symmetric first, and then work internally). But when it became obvious that I needed internal workfor my fissures, it got started a little ahead ofschedule. Take care.Suzy--- seema_sura wrote:> Hi Tom,> Thanks for your response. Today, I had another> small anal > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight> muscles spasming > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In> turn, I start to > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids> to heal a fissure > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only> thing that heals > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes> the muscle. Even > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I> honestly don't know > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your> condition is neuropathic > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor> and I just don't > have the knowledge.> What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve> the rectal pain as > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on> muscle energy > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with> pelvic muscle floor > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am> not so sure if I > have the right PT though - most of her work is> external and not > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got> help from internal > vaginal work__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

Thanks so much for your response. Is there a time I could call you

to talk about my condition with you face to face or rather phone to

phone? I really appreciate all your help. My dad used to live in

Cleveland so he may have some people I could stay with for a couple

of weeks.

Seema

> > > >

> > > > > Hi Tom,

> > > > > Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small

anal

> > > > > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles

> > spasming

> > > > > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I

> > start

> > > to

> > > > > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to

heal a

> > > fissure

> > > > > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing

that

> > > heals

> > > > > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the

muscle.

> > > Even

> > > > > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly

don't

> > > know

> > > > > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is

> > > neuropathic

> > > > > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I

just

> > > don't

> > > > > have the knowledge.

> > > > > What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the

rectal

> > > pain as

> > > > > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle

energy

> > > > > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic

muscle

> > > floor

> > > > > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so

sure

> > if

> > > I

> > > > > have the right PT though - most of her work is external

and not

> > > > > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from

> > > internal

> > > > > vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually

> > thought

> > > to

> > > > > myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go

> > live

> > > in

> > > > > Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know

if

> > > physical

> > > > > therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain

> > every

> > > day

> > > > > anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months

> > would

> > > be

> > > > > enough time? Or is this something that is just not

feasible and

> > > is

> > > > > out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Seema

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> > > > > -------------------------------------------------

> > > > > To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

> > > > > To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe@y...

> > > > > Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe@y...

> > > > > List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner@y...

> > > > >

> > > > > *****

[Guest guest]

Hey Seema,

Keep in mind that I treat a variety of disorders in my practice not jsut VV

stuff.

I also try to spend a full hour with patients so we can get alot accomplished.So

when I guestimate 10 visits that would be an average. Very few thearapist have

the luxury of treating a patinet one on one for a hour.

That is the benefit of being the owner.So after 3-4 visits if my patients have

not noticed a significant change, I'm missing something. I thing that is a good

guideline. You should have some significantly positive

feeling or it meybe time to look elseware. If the therapist is not spending an

hour with you, then that may be the reason your not getting results.

THe docs around Cleveland don't use the diagnosis of Vulvadinia so as to the

number of actual diagnossed cases I have treated it would be 2 but that is

becasue they were from way far away. If you ask how many women

with back, hip,and or crotch, pain I have treated then I will guess 100 - 125 in

the past 3 years. Remember also that all those patients I have been succesful

with are ones with a msuculo-skeletal primary cause. I

believe that even if the orriginal cause of the pain and burning may have been

chemical / biological that it eventually is perpetuated by the stress, and

msucle tension that have come to be synonymous with this nasty

disorder and therefore becomes a msusculo-skeletal issue.

Now, about the scoliosis and shoe lift thing. Actual structural leg length

discrepancies are very rare. The vast majority of time, the difference is

actuually caused by an asymmetry in the pelvis. These are

correctable and that would also even out your leg lenght immediatley. So when

you say the therapist wants to give you a shoe lift, I suspect your pelvis has

not been completly corrected. But hey, I'm not there and I

can't see and evaluate you myself so I would not challenge your therapsists

assesment but as I say, true structural differences are very very rare.

If the pelvis is not balanced and symmetrical then 10-20 -30 visits are possible

and may still not complete the process. That is why I say 10 visits total with

major changes in 3-4. I am very succesful at the

pelvis. It is the source of probably 85 % of the problems I see and as an

instructor of these unusual techniques, I know the tricks. You can take

courses, lots of them but if you don't use them everyday of your life

for the first 5-10 years then you miss and forget alot. So when someone says

they have taken alot of the courses ask if they teach and use them everday of

the year for the past 10 years with unmatched success. And

don't worry about being doubtful....after all you've been through, you got a

right!

A buddy and patient of mine is a pilot for US (SCARE) AIR and he has a home in

Phoenix. He lets me use it if I come out west and I am planning a trip this

fall to Flagstaff, Grand Can, Bryce Cannon, then out to the

indian reservations on our way to Albuquerque NM.

Any way, if this is a musclulo-skeletal problem I am 100% confident I can make a

noticably positive difference to you in 3-4 session. But, be forewarned...

I give homework.

I strongly recommend you do some internal work on yourself vaginally and

rectally.

THey sell dialators to help with this as well. It seems kinda extreme to do this

but many and I mean many of the women on this board have greatly improved there

symptoms by a combination of internal work and

dialators.

If I get an out of towner I treat every day for 4-5 days but I work on different

things every other day. I alternate between Muscle Energy/ Counterstrain on one

day to Myofascial / crainio-sacral / tissue work on the

next. Blood and Oxygen are everything to this disorder.

There I think I answered all of your questions but if I missed on let me know.

Oh, I think a glass of wine would be just fine as long as it does not conflict

with any current medications. Relax!!! In moderation it may even help.

TKOPT

www.tomocklerpt.com

seema_sura wrote:

> Hi Tom,

> I will probably give you a phone call to talk about my situation -

> when is a good time to call you? I was very surprised when you said

> 10 visits total. May I ask - how is that possible? The lady I am

> seeing does counterstrain/muscle energy technique and we've already

> had 6 sessions. I know that physical therapy may not even be the

> answer for me - it's just that I get so desperate!!

>

> I live in Phoenix, Arizona (a long way from Cleveland!). I also

> should mention that the PT I am seeing told me I also have scoliosis

> and wants me to wear a shoe lift. I am wearing it but sometimes, the

> lift bothers me. Also, I never wear shoes in the house so I guess I

> am not as diligent in this. Would me having scoliosis probably

> stretch out the number of visits? I'm sorry to be so dubious - it's

> just that it seems like the women here have had months of physical

> therapy and I was just wondering how you are able to get results so

> quickly. Thank you for your encouragement - it just seems like

> everything I try fails. Good thing - I don't smoke or anything like

> that. I haven't had a drink in a year because the doctors/naturopaths

> tell me not to. But, I sure would love a Long Island Iced Tea as

> well!!

>

> Seema

>

> >

> > > Hi Tom,

> > > Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small anal

> > > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles spasming

> > > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I start

> to

> > > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to heal a

> fissure

> > > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing that

> heals

> > > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the muscle.

> Even

> > > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly don't

> know

> > > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is

> neuropathic

> > > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I just

> don't

> > > have the knowledge.

> > > What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the rectal

> pain as

> > > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle energy

> > > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic muscle

> floor

> > > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so sure if

> I

> > > have the right PT though - most of her work is external and not

> > > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from

> internal

> > > vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually thought

> to

> > > myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go live

> in

> > > Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know if

> physical

> > > therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain every

> day

> > > anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months would

> be

> > > enough time? Or is this something that is just not feasible and

> is

> > > out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

> > >

> > > Seema

> > >

> > >

> > > *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> > > -------------------------------------------------

> > > To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

> > > To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe@y...

> > > Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe@y...

> > > List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner@y...

> > >

> > > *****

[Guest guest]

Sorriy, I missed that question. The only patient I did not hlep was one

who came to see me from Michigan.( 3-4 hour away.) I spent two hours with

her but she did not notice a change. She only came once due to the

distance. She is a member of this list and as I recal she had a crushed

plevis from a severe car accident which if i remember correctly was the

start of all this. MAjor fractures like that require more than one

visit but i don't blame her for not wanting to make the drive.

I rarely do internal work for several reasons.

I am Male and this is always a red flag with women.

I usually get needed results with the external trigger releases, and other

techniques.

If needed, Sherry, who works with me can do the internal work.

She is a former patient who had this nightmare of a disorder for a year

and a half before I hired her. She is a massage therapist and haveing had

this problem she is very empethetic to all who are in chronic vulvar pain.

TKOPT

seema_sura wrote:

I forgot to ask you, how many women have you successfully

treated with

vestibulitis (and if you don't mind answering this one, how many were

not able to get improvement). Also, I remember you said you

rarely do internal work - then in my case, do you believe

rectal/vaginal massage would not be something you would do. I

don't

think anyone would want to give a rectal massage to anyone - I can

imagine it being unpleasant for the PT as well!! Thanks again.

Seema

> >

> > > Hi Tom,

> > > Thanks for your response. Today,

I had another small anal

> > > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles

spasming

> > > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn,

I

start

> to

> > > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to

heal a

> fissure

> > > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing

that

> heals

> > > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the muscle.

> Even

> > > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly

don't

> know

> > > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition

is

> neuropathic

> > > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and

I just

> don't

> > > have the knowledge.

> > > What kind of techniques can my PT do

to relieve the rectal

> pain as

> > > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle

energy

> > > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic muscle

> floor

> > > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so

sure

if

> I

> > > have the right PT though - most of her work is external

and not

> > > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from

> internal

> > > vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually

thought

> to

> > > myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go

live

> in

> > > Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know

if

> physical

> > > therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain

every

> day

> > > anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months

would

> be

> > > enough time? Or is this something that is just not feasible

and

> is

> > > out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

> > >

> > > Seema

> > >

> > >

> > > *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> > > -------------------------------------------------

> > > To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

> > > To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe@y...

> > > Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe@y...

> > > List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner@y...

> > >

> > > *****

[Guest guest]

Hi Seema, the schedule is usually booked but you can try to call and tell Sherry

who you are ( see what power your name commands.) If I can't get on the phone

she can take your # and I'll call you back as soon as I

get some time.

Rather than psoting the clinic #, just go to the website and get it from there

OK?

Look forward to hearing from you...I have a meeting tomarow from 1-3 PM my time

which is 2 hrs ahead of your time (I think.)

TKOPT

www.tomocklerpt.com

seema_sura wrote:

> Hi Tom,

> Thanks so much for your response. Is there a time I could call you

> to talk about my condition with you face to face or rather phone to

> phone? I really appreciate all your help. My dad used to live in

> Cleveland so he may have some people I could stay with for a couple

> of weeks.

>

> Seema

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Tom,

> > > > > > Thanks for your response. Today, I had another small

> anal

> > > > > > fissure. I feel now that this may be from tight muscles

> > > spasming

> > > > > > cutting off blood flow and causing inflammation. In turn, I

> > > start

> > > > to

> > > > > > develop tears. One doctor had tried to use steroids to

> heal a

> > > > fissure

> > > > > > - 1 month of using it and it did nothing. The only thing

> that

> > > > heals

> > > > > > mine is nitroglycerin ointment - since it relaxes the

> muscle.

> > > > Even

> > > > > > after they heal, I still get horrible burning. I honestly

> don't

> > > > know

> > > > > > what to do anymore. How can you tell if your condition is

> > > > neuropathic

> > > > > > or muscular? I feel like I have to be my own doctor and I

> just

> > > > don't

> > > > > > have the knowledge.

> > > > > > What kind of techniques can my PT do to relieve the

> rectal

> > > > pain as

> > > > > > well? She says she has gone to lots of classes on muscle

> energy

> > > > > > technique and counterstrain and is familiar with pelvic

> muscle

> > > > floor

> > > > > > dysfunction (treated a lot of incontinence). I am not so

> sure

> > > if

> > > > I

> > > > > > have the right PT though - most of her work is external

> and not

> > > > > > internal. It seems like a lot of these women got help from

> > > > internal

> > > > > > vaginal work. Tom, I am getting so desperate - I actually

> > > thought

> > > > to

> > > > > > myself, what if I can take medical leave for 3 months and go

> > > live

> > > > in

> > > > > > Ohio and get physical therapy from you. I don't even know

> if

> > > > physical

> > > > > > therapy can help me, but I can't seem to live with this pain

> > > every

> > > > day

> > > > > > anymore. If I did go out to see you, do you think 3 months

> > > would

> > > > be

> > > > > > enough time? Or is this something that is just not

> feasible and

> > > > is

> > > > > > out of complete desperation?? Thanks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Seema

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > To post message: VulvarDisorders@y...

> > > > > > To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe@y...

> > > > > > Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe@y...

> > > > > > List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner@y...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *****

[Guest guest]

Tom, do you think scoliosis could be a contributing factor maybe?

Traci

Re: Re: burning after BM-Seema

Sorriy, I missed that question. The only patient I did not hlep was one who came to see me from Michigan.( 3-4 hour away.) I spent two hours with her but she did not notice a change. She only came once due to the distance. She is a member of this list and as I recal she had a crushed plevis from a severe car accident which if i remember correctly was the start of all this. MAjor fractures like that require more than one visit but i don't blame her for not wanting to make the drive. I rarely do internal work for several reasons.

[Guest guest]

Tom, do you think scoliosis could be a contributing factor maybe?

Traci

Re: Re: burning after BM-Seema

Sorriy, I missed that question. The only patient I did not hlep was one who came to see me from Michigan.( 3-4 hour away.) I spent two hours with her but she did not notice a change. She only came once due to the distance. She is a member of this list and as I recal she had a crushed plevis from a severe car accident which if i remember correctly was the start of all this. MAjor fractures like that require more than one visit but i don't blame her for not wanting to make the drive. I rarely do internal work for several reasons.