Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 Lori- Some kids do this. I've had students who could write sentences and still weren't able to color in the lines. I think part of it is them seeing the value of something and the motivation moves them to put forth more effort. I would suggest talking with the OT. She still might not want her writing letters, but my opinion is that she is going to continue to try and it is much easier to teach a child the correct way to write her letters than to try to teach them the correct way once they have learned the wrong way. I'd strongly suggest the D'Nelian method, as it transfers to cursive much easier and Alycia will probably do better with cursive, since she has vision issues. D'Nelian also is visually easier in the beginning, because there aren't as many aliegnment strokes needed. Laurie Downs wrote: > > > Another question....about pre-writing versus writing: > > Alycia has fine motor difficulties and hand weakness thus has great > difficulty with pre-writing skills like drawing circles, drawing a > face inside the circle or following with a crayon within the boundries > of a very simple maze (a slightly curved outline). She is learning to > type as an alternative to writing in case this skill does not emerge. > However, in the past month, she has shown some dramatic changes in her > pre-writing skills such that she is drawing faces with smiles and she > is following simple mazes almost accurately. The problem is that she > desperately wants to write letters and is trying to imitate the > writing strokes that we (my husband and I) make when we write. She > keeps bugging us to show her how to write the letters. I have been > putting her off because the O.T. told us that she needs a lot of > practice with her pre-writing skills and that we should not be > teaching her to write letters just yet (she told us this about 2 > months ago). > > Alycia is quite determined to write letters and I don't think there is > any stopping her. Since I am not helping her, she got a hold of one > of her work books with dot to dot letters (it was in the bottom of her > toy chest) and that little bugger traced those lines as best as she > could (I didn't know she was doing this...I was in the kitchen cooking > dinner and I found the finished product when I went in the den to > check on her). She actually made some recognizable letters! It seems > that she has decided for herself that if we adults (her parents and > the OT) are not going to teach her to write letters, then she is just > going to have to teach herself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 Hi Laurie, Where can I find out about this " D'Nelian " method? Would my OT know about this...is it a fairly common term among educators? The method that I had planned on teaching was shown to me by my step mother who teaches kindergarten and the OT approved this method *once Alycia had mastered pre-writing*. The method involves using only top to bottom strokes and left to right strokes. It is easier for children with fine motor difficulties to learn but it isn't cursive. It never occurred to me to start with cursive. I will ask the O.T. about doing cursive and ask her if we should reconsider doing a little work on letters since Alycia is so motivated. Here's some more encouraging news....she is reading like crazy! The director of the school told me to stop teaching her to read because it wasn't age appropriate so I haven't worked with her on this at all. That determined little girl is finding a way to learn her words regardless! She can read the names of all her video tapes (just the tape...the covers are missing so she is reading the words), she can read the names of all her classmates ( she read off their names from the Valentines day list) and she knows the word " North " as she pointed out a road sign to me that said " North " . There is just no stopping her! Now if only I can harness some of this wonderful visual learning in such a way that I can help her with the abstract stuff that she is having trouble with! Laurie, thanks for your advice. If you know of a book title or a web site with information on D'Nelian, I would appreciate it. Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Besides that Lori, Kody says with his fine motor problems that writing cursive would be easier as he wouldn't have to keep lifting the pencil off the paper and back down in the right place. He is determined to practice cursive like Alycia is practicing her handwriting. They will learn if they like in spite of us! I think it would be fine to move ahead for Alycia and Kody if they desire it, who owns this world anyway (ha ha)? S. Re: writing > > >Lori- > >Some kids do this. I've had students who could write sentences and still weren't able to color in the >lines. I think part of it is them seeing the value of something and the motivation moves them to put >forth more effort. I would suggest talking with the OT. She still might not want her writing letters, but >my opinion is that she is going to continue to try and it is much easier to teach a child the correct way >to write her letters than to try to teach them the correct way once they have learned the wrong way. I'd >strongly suggest the D'Nelian method, as it transfers to cursive much easier and Alycia will probably do >better with cursive, since she has vision issues. D'Nelian also is visually easier in the beginning, >because there aren't as many aliegnment strokes needed. > >Laurie > > Downs wrote: > >> >> >> Another question....about pre-writing versus writing: >> >> Alycia has fine motor difficulties and hand weakness thus has great >> difficulty with pre-writing skills like drawing circles, drawing a >> face inside the circle or following with a crayon within the boundries >> of a very simple maze (a slightly curved outline). She is learning to >> type as an alternative to writing in case this skill does not emerge. >> However, in the past month, she has shown some dramatic changes in her >> pre-writing skills such that she is drawing faces with smiles and she >> is following simple mazes almost accurately. The problem is that she >> desperately wants to write letters and is trying to imitate the >> writing strokes that we (my husband and I) make when we write. She >> keeps bugging us to show her how to write the letters. I have been >> putting her off because the O.T. told us that she needs a lot of >> practice with her pre-writing skills and that we should not be >> teaching her to write letters just yet (she told us this about 2 >> months ago). >> >> Alycia is quite determined to write letters and I don't think there is >> any stopping her. Since I am not helping her, she got a hold of one >> of her work books with dot to dot letters (it was in the bottom of her >> toy chest) and that little bugger traced those lines as best as she >> could (I didn't know she was doing this...I was in the kitchen cooking >> dinner and I found the finished product when I went in the den to >> check on her). She actually made some recognizable letters! It seems >> that she has decided for herself that if we adults (her parents and >> the OT) are not going to teach her to write letters, then she is just >> going to have to teach herself! > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ta Da! Come see our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: A free email community service >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Brought to you by www.imdn.org - an on-line support group for those affected by mitochondrial disease. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Lori- Glad to hear that Alycia is reading. My oldest son taught himself to read. I thought he was able to read at 4, but he claims he was reading earlier and was able to site examples. He knew all the letters at 22 months and the sounds by 2.5 years, so he probably was reading at 3. His handwriting is terrible to this day. D'Nelian is taught in probably 50% of schools. It isn't starting with cursive, but a form of handwriting that is close. It was developed by a father whose son was having trouble learning to write. It is close to how most adults print. They don't make a small " a " by making a circle and then attaching a stick next to it. They start at the top, make a roundish shape and continue down the side and into a loop - kind of like a cursive " a " that isn't attached to anything. I'm sure there must be web sites, if you do a search. There are also workbooks available in many stores in this area. A teacher's store would definitely have something. I know that our Meijer's and K-mart have them, as well as Staples. Good luck, Laurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Hi , Thank you for sharing Kody's opinion with me. It helps hearing the perspective of the kids. Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Also Lori, go to any learning store and they even have large charts with the D'Nelian alphabet and I have a wipeable placemat with it. Any grade school should have charts. My kids have brought home many of them. S. Re: writing > > >Lori- > >Glad to hear that Alycia is reading. My oldest son taught himself to >read. I thought he was able to read at 4, but he claims he was reading >earlier and was able to site examples. He knew all the letters at 22 >months and the sounds by 2.5 years, so he probably was reading at 3. His >handwriting is terrible to this day. > >D'Nelian is taught in probably 50% of schools. It isn't starting with >cursive, but a form of handwriting that is close. It was developed by a >father whose son was having trouble learning to write. It is close to >how most adults print. They don't make a small " a " by making a circle >and then attaching a stick next to it. They start at the top, make a >roundish shape and continue down the side and into a loop - kind of like >a cursive " a " that isn't attached to anything. I'm sure there must be >web sites, if you do a search. There are also workbooks available in >many stores in this area. A teacher's store would definitely have >something. I know that our Meijer's and K-mart have them, as well as >Staples. > >Good luck, >Laurie > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Well Laurie, It looks like I will be taking a road trip to Staples for find these D'Nelian books. Thanks for the info. It sounds like you Son was pretty motivated! Kids are amazing at what they can learn when they want to do it! Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 Lori, I just have to answer you on this one. Bart has been able to print since he was 2. He holds the pencil still now at 9 in the wrong OT grasp- I have and his OT since age 3 have decided who cares if he can write with the wrong pencil grasp and do it in the wrong darn order, it is stimulating and motivating and we should be using this strength as a motivational tool not make it a problem. Well school made it a problem . They did hand over hand to use the proper grasp and guess what. We losed his love for writing. WEll, no we did not. I can't trust him with pens.markers, etc as he will write on the walls and floors. WHy. SChool has a dry erase board vs a blackbord. He cannot generalize dry erase board and walls at home. He has always loved to perseverate on logos. He loves like to write like RITE_AID and store names and video names. I would like to share this about your question of skipping steps or making sure the child goes thru the proper steps. My son, and the other kids I know with autism CAN skip steps .. In fact , I think they can can move ahead and skip some of those basic step, believe it or not. So my advice to you is what I do. I listen to the progessionals advice but I know my kid the best. And if he is ready to learn something for obcessive or whatever reasons. SO What. He is disabled and he learns differently. So if your daughter is ready to learn 3 steps ahead why not teach her. Bart has learned this way. He did not get the 1st3 steps of something but can pick it up from there. I don't know. I agree to try to teach the 1st steps but then are we to give up on the scattered skill level and getting anywhere if we do that. Food for thought .. Kathy ---------- > > To: Mito list <Mitoonelist>; Mitochondrial <mitochondrialonelist>; OUR-KIDS > Subject: writing > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 10:12 AM > > > > Another question....about pre-writing versus writing: > > Alycia has fine motor difficulties and hand weakness thus has great > difficulty with pre-writing skills like drawing circles, drawing a > face inside the circle or following with a crayon within the boundries > of a very simple maze (a slightly curved outline). She is learning to > type as an alternative to writing in case this skill does not emerge. > However, in the past month, she has shown some dramatic changes in her > pre-writing skills such that she is drawing faces with smiles and she > is following simple mazes almost accurately. The problem is that she > desperately wants to write letters and is trying to imitate the > writing strokes that we (my husband and I) make when we write. She > keeps bugging us to show her how to write the letters. I have been > putting her off because the O.T. told us that she needs a lot of > practice with her pre-writing skills and that we should not be > teaching her to write letters just yet (she told us this about 2 > months ago). > > Alycia is quite determined to write letters and I don't think there is > any stopping her. Since I am not helping her, she got a hold of one > of her work books with dot to dot letters (it was in the bottom of her > toy chest) and that little bugger traced those lines as best as she > could (I didn't know she was doing this...I was in the kitchen cooking > dinner and I found the finished product when I went in the den to > check on her). She actually made some recognizable letters! It seems > that she has decided for herself that if we adults (her parents and > the OT) are not going to teach her to write letters, then she is just > going to have to teach herself! > > A part of me feels like I should follow my child's desire and show her > how to write the letters yet I don't want to go against the O.T. and > mess up Alycia's pre-writing training. Does anyone have experience > with a situation like this? > > That is ....the child wants to move onto the next step but the teacher > says she hasn't mastered the basics yet? Could it hurt to dabble in a > little letter writing if it is my child's desire to do so? > > Lori > Mother of Alycia 4 1/2 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited our new web site? > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Brought to you by www.imdn.org - an on-line support group for those affected by mitochondrial disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 Lori, I just have to answer you on this one. Bart has been able to print since he was 2. He holds the pencil still now at 9 in the wrong OT grasp- I have and his OT since age 3 have decided who cares if he can write with the wrong pencil grasp and do it in the wrong darn order, it is stimulating and motivating and we should be using this strength as a motivational tool not make it a problem. Well school made it a problem . They did hand over hand to use the proper grasp and guess what. We losed his love for writing. WEll, no we did not. I can't trust him with pens.markers, etc as he will write on the walls and floors. WHy. SChool has a dry erase board vs a blackbord. He cannot generalize dry erase board and walls at home. He has always loved to perseverate on logos. He loves like to write like RITE_AID and store names and video names. I would like to share this about your question of skipping steps or making sure the child goes thru the proper steps. My son, and the other kids I know with autism CAN skip steps .. In fact , I think they can can move ahead and skip some of those basic step, believe it or not. So my advice to you is what I do. I listen to the progessionals advice but I know my kid the best. And if he is ready to learn something for obcessive or whatever reasons. SO What. He is disabled and he learns differently. So if your daughter is ready to learn 3 steps ahead why not teach her. Bart has learned this way. He did not get the 1st3 steps of something but can pick it up from there. I don't know. I agree to try to teach the 1st steps but then are we to give up on the scattered skill level and getting anywhere if we do that. Food for thought .. Kathy ---------- > > To: Mito list <Mitoonelist>; Mitochondrial <mitochondrialonelist>; OUR-KIDS > Subject: writing > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 10:12 AM > > > > Another question....about pre-writing versus writing: > > Alycia has fine motor difficulties and hand weakness thus has great > difficulty with pre-writing skills like drawing circles, drawing a > face inside the circle or following with a crayon within the boundries > of a very simple maze (a slightly curved outline). She is learning to > type as an alternative to writing in case this skill does not emerge. > However, in the past month, she has shown some dramatic changes in her > pre-writing skills such that she is drawing faces with smiles and she > is following simple mazes almost accurately. The problem is that she > desperately wants to write letters and is trying to imitate the > writing strokes that we (my husband and I) make when we write. She > keeps bugging us to show her how to write the letters. I have been > putting her off because the O.T. told us that she needs a lot of > practice with her pre-writing skills and that we should not be > teaching her to write letters just yet (she told us this about 2 > months ago). > > Alycia is quite determined to write letters and I don't think there is > any stopping her. Since I am not helping her, she got a hold of one > of her work books with dot to dot letters (it was in the bottom of her > toy chest) and that little bugger traced those lines as best as she > could (I didn't know she was doing this...I was in the kitchen cooking > dinner and I found the finished product when I went in the den to > check on her). She actually made some recognizable letters! It seems > that she has decided for herself that if we adults (her parents and > the OT) are not going to teach her to write letters, then she is just > going to have to teach herself! > > A part of me feels like I should follow my child's desire and show her > how to write the letters yet I don't want to go against the O.T. and > mess up Alycia's pre-writing training. Does anyone have experience > with a situation like this? > > That is ....the child wants to move onto the next step but the teacher > says she hasn't mastered the basics yet? Could it hurt to dabble in a > little letter writing if it is my child's desire to do so? > > Lori > Mother of Alycia 4 1/2 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited our new web site? > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Brought to you by www.imdn.org - an on-line support group for those affected by mitochondrial disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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