Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 Thanks Kim. About a year ago, I showed him a copy of the Cult or Cure book and he wouldn't even look at it. I tried to get him to thumb through it, even if it was to make fun of it. He got really mad and told me to put it away. Same thing with the Smart literature. He'd get really defensive and condescending towards me. Lately, I've really just stopped trying with him. He is so stubborn about his AA involvement that I never say anything bad about AA or anything connected with the program. Why? Because I know if I did I wouldn't have a relationship at all with him. Times in the past, if I lash out at AA in front of him, he'll stop talking to me for weeks on end. I've learned that AA is one area I shouldn't go into with him. Unfortunately, its all he talks about. He keeps trying to get me back in, bringing up all these people I know in the program. So I end up having to respond in some way. I usually respond by saying, " that's nice " and trying to be as polite as possible. Its a touchy subject. And its not one that he has a sense of humor about. In his mind, AA saved his life and is no laughing matter. That's what's so funny. Kind of sad example. Over Christmas my brother was really upset with me. At the time I was without a car do to financial problems. Now, my brother was adament about not giving me a ride anywhere, thinking that he would be " enabling me. " So, on Xmas day I asked him to drive me to the various relative get togethers. Half way through the day he suddenly decided he didn't want to do it. So, I was basically stranded at my Grandmother's. I had all my gifts from the night before in his car. So, I had to get them all out and find some place to take them. Anyway, I tried to contain my anger towards him. I told him it was bs that he'd changed his mind. He blew me off and said I was ,'beyond help. " And obvious slight against my non-AA stance. Anyway, I tried to hold back my temper while I was unloading the presents. And finally I said, " you f'in a'hole, I'm your family. All I ask is one day out of the year you give me a ride and its too much. " All the time he's smiling at me. I said, " just go to your AA meeting you f'in prick. " He just smiled and said, " sorry you feel that way, " got in his car and drove off. He was so condescending like " I know something you don't know. " Meaning, the AA group. Its sad isn't it what AA does to the family connection. For years, I gave my brother rides everywhere, without complaining. Oh well, enough about my screwed up family. This is the only site I can say what I want without fear of retribution. It be an amazing thing if I could do this verbally to other people. Dare to dream. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: My brother in cult >Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:59:01 -0700 (PDT) > > > Matt- scary. Don't get sucked back in by your >brother. Do you have " deprogramming " material on you ? >The best I think are " The Real AA- behind the myth of >twelve step recovery " by Ken Ragge and " Alcoholics >Anonymous- cult or Cure? " by Bufe. This way >you are armed if you ever get tempted to go back- >after reading these I doubt you would want to. Maybe >you could even do a forced deprogramming of your >brother- a bit nasty, but hey. Lock him in a room and >read this stuff out loud to him over and over again. >Who knows, you might save him years of pain. Then >again, you might never see him again- so don't let him >out til you're absolutely sure he gets that it's a >cult! > Kim > >===== > >__________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 I can't understand why you want a relationship with your brother at this point. Do you get anything positive out of it? You are clearly treating him much better than he is treating you. If he were my brother I would have stopped talking to him on Xmas, his behavior has no excuse. Indulging his resentments, manipulating the doctrine so that he can behave selfishly while calling you selfish. Practice these principles in all our affairs? Yeah, sure. Serenity? Give me a break. What toxic people he must know. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Thanks Kim. About a year ago, I showed him a copy of the Cult or Cure book >and he wouldn't even look at it. I tried to get him to thumb through it, >even if it was to make fun of it. He got really mad and told me to put it >away. Same thing with the Smart literature. He'd get really defensive and >condescending towards me. > Lately, I've really just stopped trying with him. He is so stubborn >about his AA involvement that I never say anything bad about AA or anything >connected with the program. Why? Because I know if I did I wouldn't have a >relationship at all with him. > Times in the past, if I lash out at AA in front of him, he'll stop >talking to me for weeks on end. I've learned that AA is one area I >shouldn't go into with him. Unfortunately, its all he talks about. He keeps >trying to get me back in, bringing up all these people I know in the >program. So I end up having to respond in some way. I usually respond by >saying, " that's nice " and trying to be as polite as possible. > Its a touchy subject. And its not one that he has a sense of humor >about. In his mind, AA saved his life and is no laughing matter. That's >what's so funny. > Kind of sad example. Over Christmas my brother was really upset with >me. At the time I was without a car do to financial problems. Now, my >brother was adament about not giving me a ride anywhere, thinking that he >would be " enabling me. " So, on Xmas day I asked him to drive me to the >various relative get togethers. Half way through the day he suddenly >decided he didn't want to do it. So, I was basically stranded at my >Grandmother's. I had all my gifts from the night before in his car. So, I >had to get them all out and find some place to take them. > Anyway, I tried to contain my anger towards him. I told him it was bs >that he'd changed his mind. He blew me off and said I was ,'beyond help. " >And obvious slight against my non-AA stance. > Anyway, I tried to hold back my temper while I was unloading the >presents. And finally I said, " you f'in a'hole, I'm your family. All I ask >is one day out of the year you give me a ride and its too much. " All the >time he's smiling at me. I said, " just go to your AA meeting you f'in >prick. " He just smiled and said, " sorry you feel that way, " got in his car >and drove off. > He was so condescending like " I know something you don't know. " >Meaning, the AA group. Its sad isn't it what AA does to the family >connection. For years, I gave my brother rides everywhere, without >complaining. > Oh well, enough about my screwed up family. This is the only site I >can say what I want without fear of retribution. It be an amazing thing if >I could do this verbally to other people. >Dare to dream. Matt > > >> >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >>To: 12-step-freeegroups >>Subject: My brother in cult >>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:59:01 -0700 (PDT) >> >> >> Matt- scary. Don't get sucked back in by your >>brother. Do you have " deprogramming " material on you ? >>The best I think are " The Real AA- behind the myth of >>twelve step recovery " by Ken Ragge and " Alcoholics >>Anonymous- cult or Cure? " by Bufe. This way >>you are armed if you ever get tempted to go back- >>after reading these I doubt you would want to. Maybe >>you could even do a forced deprogramming of your >>brother- a bit nasty, but hey. Lock him in a room and >>read this stuff out loud to him over and over again. >>Who knows, you might save him years of pain. Then >>again, you might never see him again- so don't let him >>out til you're absolutely sure he gets that it's a >>cult! >> Kim >> >>===== >> >>__________________________________________________ >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I do for the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship and judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over me.(shock!!! Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats me like shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I got the worst! I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my ground with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking about his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. I grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " But I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And that's ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. Like I needed to " surrender. " I think I desperately need more people in my life like those two co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because they wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them would tell me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss unconditionally. " But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've begun to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will tell you that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: My brother in cult >Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:20:25 -0700 > >I can't understand why you want a relationship with your brother at this >point. Do you get anything positive out of it? You are clearly treating >him much better than he is treating you. If he were my brother I would >have stopped talking to him on Xmas, his behavior has no excuse. Indulging >his resentments, manipulating the doctrine so that he can behave selfishly >while calling you selfish. Practice these principles in all our affairs? >Yeah, sure. Serenity? Give me a break. What toxic people he must know. >--- >Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >Thanks Kim. About a year ago, I showed him a copy of the Cult or Cure >book > >and he wouldn't even look at it. I tried to get him to thumb through it, > >even if it was to make fun of it. He got really mad and told me to put >it > >away. Same thing with the Smart literature. He'd get really defensive >and > >condescending towards me. > > Lately, I've really just stopped trying with him. He is so stubborn > >about his AA involvement that I never say anything bad about AA or >anything > >connected with the program. Why? Because I know if I did I wouldn't >have a > >relationship at all with him. > > Times in the past, if I lash out at AA in front of him, he'll stop > >talking to me for weeks on end. I've learned that AA is one area I > >shouldn't go into with him. Unfortunately, its all he talks about. He >keeps > >trying to get me back in, bringing up all these people I know in the > >program. So I end up having to respond in some way. I usually respond >by > >saying, " that's nice " and trying to be as polite as possible. > > Its a touchy subject. And its not one that he has a sense of humor > >about. In his mind, AA saved his life and is no laughing matter. That's > >what's so funny. > > Kind of sad example. Over Christmas my brother was really upset with > >me. At the time I was without a car do to financial problems. Now, my > >brother was adament about not giving me a ride anywhere, thinking that he > >would be " enabling me. " So, on Xmas day I asked him to drive me to the > >various relative get togethers. Half way through the day he suddenly > >decided he didn't want to do it. So, I was basically stranded at my > >Grandmother's. I had all my gifts from the night before in his car. So, >I > >had to get them all out and find some place to take them. > > Anyway, I tried to contain my anger towards him. I told him it was bs > >that he'd changed his mind. He blew me off and said I was ,'beyond >help. " > >And obvious slight against my non-AA stance. > > Anyway, I tried to hold back my temper while I was unloading the > >presents. And finally I said, " you f'in a'hole, I'm your family. All I >ask > >is one day out of the year you give me a ride and its too much. " All the > >time he's smiling at me. I said, " just go to your AA meeting you f'in > >prick. " He just smiled and said, " sorry you feel that way, " got in his >car > >and drove off. > > He was so condescending like " I know something you don't know. " > >Meaning, the AA group. Its sad isn't it what AA does to the family > >connection. For years, I gave my brother rides everywhere, without > >complaining. > > Oh well, enough about my screwed up family. This is the only site I > >can say what I want without fear of retribution. It be an amazing thing >if > >I could do this verbally to other people. > >Dare to dream. Matt > > > > > >> > >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups > >>To: 12-step-freeegroups > >>Subject: My brother in cult > >>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:59:01 -0700 (PDT) > >> > >> > >> Matt- scary. Don't get sucked back in by your > >>brother. Do you have " deprogramming " material on you ? > >>The best I think are " The Real AA- behind the myth of > >>twelve step recovery " by Ken Ragge and " Alcoholics > >>Anonymous- cult or Cure? " by Bufe. This way > >>you are armed if you ever get tempted to go back- > >>after reading these I doubt you would want to. Maybe > >>you could even do a forced deprogramming of your > >>brother- a bit nasty, but hey. Lock him in a room and > >>read this stuff out loud to him over and over again. > >>Who knows, you might save him years of pain. Then > >>again, you might never see him again- so don't let him > >>out til you're absolutely sure he gets that it's a > >>cult! > >> Kim > >> > >>===== > >> > >>__________________________________________________ > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 At 12:55 AM 10/13/99 GMT, MD Matt wrote: >Thanks Kim. About a year ago, I showed him a copy of the Cult or Cure book >and he wouldn't even look at it. I tried to get him to thumb through it, >even if it was to make fun of it. He got really mad and told me to put it >away. Same thing with the Smart literature. He'd get really defensive and >condescending towards me. > Lately, I've really just stopped trying with him. He is so stubborn >about his AA involvement that I never say anything bad about AA or anything >connected with the program. Why? Because I know if I did I wouldn't have a >relationship at all with him. How bad would this be? How would you evaluate your current relationship with him? > Times in the past, if I lash out at AA in front of him, he'll stop >talking to me for weeks on end. I've learned that AA is one area I >shouldn't go into with him. Unfortunately, its all he talks about. He keeps >trying to get me back in, bringing up all these people I know in the >program. So I end up having to respond in some way. I usually respond by >saying, " that's nice " and trying to be as polite as possible. > Its a touchy subject. And its not one that he has a sense of humor >about. In his mind, AA saved his life and is no laughing matter. That's >what's so funny. > Kind of sad example. Over Christmas my brother was really upset with >me. At the time I was without a car do to financial problems. Now, my >brother was adament about not giving me a ride anywhere, thinking that he >would be " enabling me. " So, on Xmas day I asked him to drive me to the >various relative get togethers. Half way through the day he suddenly >decided he didn't want to do it. So, I was basically stranded at my >Grandmother's. I had all my gifts from the night before in his car. So, I >had to get them all out and find some place to take them. I just read this, AFTER writing that above. All I can do is repeat (this time with some admitted judgement): How would you evaluate your current relationship with him? > Anyway, I tried to contain my anger towards him. I told him it was bs >that he'd changed his mind. He blew me off and said I was ,'beyond help. " >And obvious slight against my non-AA stance. > Anyway, I tried to hold back my temper while I was unloading the >presents. And finally I said, " you f'in a'hole, I'm your family. I think he has his 'family of choice' and he won't accept you until (or even if) you join HIS family. I used to have family like that.In fact, I'll be they're still like that. They're not in 12-step, but they were as patronizing as your brother sounds. I didn't much talk about AA, I was two or three years in AA before I told them I was in it. For all I know now, they may blame AA for making me stop talking with them. >All I ask >is one day out of the year you give me a ride and its too much. " All the >time he's smiling at me. I said, " just go to your AA meeting you f'in >prick. " He just smiled and said, " sorry you feel that way, " got in his car >and drove off. > He was so condescending like " I know something you don't know. " >Meaning, the AA group. Its sad isn't it what AA does to the family >connection. For years, I gave my brother rides everywhere, without >complaining. > Oh well, enough about my screwed up family. I decided about five years ago that blood was not thicker than abuse, and I took the appropriate action. >This is the only site I >can say what I want without fear of retribution. It be an amazing thing if >I could do this verbally to other people. >Dare to dream. Matt ----- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 At 12:55 AM 10/13/99 GMT, MD Matt wrote: >Thanks Kim. About a year ago, I showed him a copy of the Cult or Cure book >and he wouldn't even look at it. I tried to get him to thumb through it, >even if it was to make fun of it. He got really mad and told me to put it >away. Same thing with the Smart literature. He'd get really defensive and >condescending towards me. > Lately, I've really just stopped trying with him. He is so stubborn >about his AA involvement that I never say anything bad about AA or anything >connected with the program. Why? Because I know if I did I wouldn't have a >relationship at all with him. How bad would this be? How would you evaluate your current relationship with him? > Times in the past, if I lash out at AA in front of him, he'll stop >talking to me for weeks on end. I've learned that AA is one area I >shouldn't go into with him. Unfortunately, its all he talks about. He keeps >trying to get me back in, bringing up all these people I know in the >program. So I end up having to respond in some way. I usually respond by >saying, " that's nice " and trying to be as polite as possible. > Its a touchy subject. And its not one that he has a sense of humor >about. In his mind, AA saved his life and is no laughing matter. That's >what's so funny. > Kind of sad example. Over Christmas my brother was really upset with >me. At the time I was without a car do to financial problems. Now, my >brother was adament about not giving me a ride anywhere, thinking that he >would be " enabling me. " So, on Xmas day I asked him to drive me to the >various relative get togethers. Half way through the day he suddenly >decided he didn't want to do it. So, I was basically stranded at my >Grandmother's. I had all my gifts from the night before in his car. So, I >had to get them all out and find some place to take them. I just read this, AFTER writing that above. All I can do is repeat (this time with some admitted judgement): How would you evaluate your current relationship with him? > Anyway, I tried to contain my anger towards him. I told him it was bs >that he'd changed his mind. He blew me off and said I was ,'beyond help. " >And obvious slight against my non-AA stance. > Anyway, I tried to hold back my temper while I was unloading the >presents. And finally I said, " you f'in a'hole, I'm your family. I think he has his 'family of choice' and he won't accept you until (or even if) you join HIS family. I used to have family like that.In fact, I'll be they're still like that. They're not in 12-step, but they were as patronizing as your brother sounds. I didn't much talk about AA, I was two or three years in AA before I told them I was in it. For all I know now, they may blame AA for making me stop talking with them. >All I ask >is one day out of the year you give me a ride and its too much. " All the >time he's smiling at me. I said, " just go to your AA meeting you f'in >prick. " He just smiled and said, " sorry you feel that way, " got in his car >and drove off. > He was so condescending like " I know something you don't know. " >Meaning, the AA group. Its sad isn't it what AA does to the family >connection. For years, I gave my brother rides everywhere, without >complaining. > Oh well, enough about my screwed up family. I decided about five years ago that blood was not thicker than abuse, and I took the appropriate action. >This is the only site I >can say what I want without fear of retribution. It be an amazing thing if >I could do this verbally to other people. >Dare to dream. Matt ----- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 At 12:55 AM 10/13/99 GMT, MD Matt wrote: >Thanks Kim. About a year ago, I showed him a copy of the Cult or Cure book >and he wouldn't even look at it. I tried to get him to thumb through it, >even if it was to make fun of it. He got really mad and told me to put it >away. Same thing with the Smart literature. He'd get really defensive and >condescending towards me. > Lately, I've really just stopped trying with him. He is so stubborn >about his AA involvement that I never say anything bad about AA or anything >connected with the program. Why? Because I know if I did I wouldn't have a >relationship at all with him. How bad would this be? How would you evaluate your current relationship with him? > Times in the past, if I lash out at AA in front of him, he'll stop >talking to me for weeks on end. I've learned that AA is one area I >shouldn't go into with him. Unfortunately, its all he talks about. He keeps >trying to get me back in, bringing up all these people I know in the >program. So I end up having to respond in some way. I usually respond by >saying, " that's nice " and trying to be as polite as possible. > Its a touchy subject. And its not one that he has a sense of humor >about. In his mind, AA saved his life and is no laughing matter. That's >what's so funny. > Kind of sad example. Over Christmas my brother was really upset with >me. At the time I was without a car do to financial problems. Now, my >brother was adament about not giving me a ride anywhere, thinking that he >would be " enabling me. " So, on Xmas day I asked him to drive me to the >various relative get togethers. Half way through the day he suddenly >decided he didn't want to do it. So, I was basically stranded at my >Grandmother's. I had all my gifts from the night before in his car. So, I >had to get them all out and find some place to take them. I just read this, AFTER writing that above. All I can do is repeat (this time with some admitted judgement): How would you evaluate your current relationship with him? > Anyway, I tried to contain my anger towards him. I told him it was bs >that he'd changed his mind. He blew me off and said I was ,'beyond help. " >And obvious slight against my non-AA stance. > Anyway, I tried to hold back my temper while I was unloading the >presents. And finally I said, " you f'in a'hole, I'm your family. I think he has his 'family of choice' and he won't accept you until (or even if) you join HIS family. I used to have family like that.In fact, I'll be they're still like that. They're not in 12-step, but they were as patronizing as your brother sounds. I didn't much talk about AA, I was two or three years in AA before I told them I was in it. For all I know now, they may blame AA for making me stop talking with them. >All I ask >is one day out of the year you give me a ride and its too much. " All the >time he's smiling at me. I said, " just go to your AA meeting you f'in >prick. " He just smiled and said, " sorry you feel that way, " got in his car >and drove off. > He was so condescending like " I know something you don't know. " >Meaning, the AA group. Its sad isn't it what AA does to the family >connection. For years, I gave my brother rides everywhere, without >complaining. > Oh well, enough about my screwed up family. I decided about five years ago that blood was not thicker than abuse, and I took the appropriate action. >This is the only site I >can say what I want without fear of retribution. It be an amazing thing if >I could do this verbally to other people. >Dare to dream. Matt ----- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 It might be useful to find a site which deals with abuse so you can recognize the outward signs. I wasn't able to do that too well myself a few years ago, but when I got counseling at the local Women's Crisis Center (where I ended up working a " humbling " program as a doormat), I found a pamphlet on abuse and control techniques used by the oppressor in abusive relationships. Some of them include Threatened Humiliated in public Called derogatory names Ignored in terms of thoughts and feelings Isolated from family and friends Denied affection as punishment Manipulated with lies and contradictions It's easy to fall into the same role when one has been used to it. The abuse has to do with power. Someone somewhere gives you boss shit, so he passes it on to the individual beneath him in the food chain. This compulsion to pass it on if the abuse is untreated is strong. Have you ever done therapy work with family issues? Apple " md matt " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8595 > I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I do for > the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship and > judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. > I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over me.(shock!!! > Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats me like > shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I got the > worst! > I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my ground > with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking about > his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. > That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. I > grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " But > I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And that's > ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. Like I > needed to " surrender. " > I think I desperately need more people in my life like those two > co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because they > wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. > Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them would tell > me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss > unconditionally. " > But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've begun > to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will tell you > that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 It might be useful to find a site which deals with abuse so you can recognize the outward signs. I wasn't able to do that too well myself a few years ago, but when I got counseling at the local Women's Crisis Center (where I ended up working a " humbling " program as a doormat), I found a pamphlet on abuse and control techniques used by the oppressor in abusive relationships. Some of them include Threatened Humiliated in public Called derogatory names Ignored in terms of thoughts and feelings Isolated from family and friends Denied affection as punishment Manipulated with lies and contradictions It's easy to fall into the same role when one has been used to it. The abuse has to do with power. Someone somewhere gives you boss shit, so he passes it on to the individual beneath him in the food chain. This compulsion to pass it on if the abuse is untreated is strong. Have you ever done therapy work with family issues? Apple " md matt " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8595 > I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I do for > the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship and > judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. > I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over me.(shock!!! > Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats me like > shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I got the > worst! > I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my ground > with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking about > his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. > That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. I > grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " But > I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And that's > ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. Like I > needed to " surrender. " > I think I desperately need more people in my life like those two > co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because they > wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. > Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them would tell > me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss > unconditionally. " > But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've begun > to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will tell you > that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of today, I called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay out of therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to hate myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I don't fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my childhood problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my life. The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive people. Mainly, people like my boss. By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially the one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier about it. Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are alive we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt >From: appledtp@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: My brother in cult >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:08:05 -0700 > >It might be useful to find a site which deals with abuse so you can >recognize the outward signs. I wasn't able to do that too well myself a >few years ago, but when I got counseling at the local Women's Crisis >Center (where I ended up working a " humbling " program as a doormat), I >found a pamphlet on abuse and control techniques used by the oppressor >in abusive relationships. Some of them include > >Threatened >Humiliated in public >Called derogatory names >Ignored in terms of thoughts and feelings >Isolated from family and friends >Denied affection as punishment >Manipulated with lies and contradictions > >It's easy to fall into the same role when one has been used to it. The >abuse has to do with power. Someone somewhere gives you boss shit, so >he passes it on to the individual beneath him in the food chain. This >compulsion to pass it on if the abuse is untreated is strong. Have you >ever done therapy work with family issues? >Apple > > > " md matt " wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8595 > > I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I >do for > > the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship >and > > judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. > > I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over >me.(shock!!! > > Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats >me like > > shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I >got the > > worst! > > I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my >ground > > with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking >about > > his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. > > That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. > I > > grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " > But > > I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And >that's > > ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. >Like I > > needed to " surrender. " > > I think I desperately need more people in my life like those >two > > co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because >they > > wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. > > Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them >would tell > > me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss > > unconditionally. " > > But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've >begun > > to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will >tell you > > that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Telebank Money Market yields are consistently DOUBLE the national average >and CD yields in the TOP 1% nationally for 10 years! FDIC insured. >Click for FREE Information Kit. http://clickhere./click/1124 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of today, I called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay out of therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to hate myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I don't fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my childhood problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my life. The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive people. Mainly, people like my boss. By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially the one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier about it. Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are alive we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt >From: appledtp@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: My brother in cult >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:08:05 -0700 > >It might be useful to find a site which deals with abuse so you can >recognize the outward signs. I wasn't able to do that too well myself a >few years ago, but when I got counseling at the local Women's Crisis >Center (where I ended up working a " humbling " program as a doormat), I >found a pamphlet on abuse and control techniques used by the oppressor >in abusive relationships. Some of them include > >Threatened >Humiliated in public >Called derogatory names >Ignored in terms of thoughts and feelings >Isolated from family and friends >Denied affection as punishment >Manipulated with lies and contradictions > >It's easy to fall into the same role when one has been used to it. The >abuse has to do with power. Someone somewhere gives you boss shit, so >he passes it on to the individual beneath him in the food chain. This >compulsion to pass it on if the abuse is untreated is strong. Have you >ever done therapy work with family issues? >Apple > > > " md matt " wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8595 > > I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I >do for > > the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship >and > > judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. > > I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over >me.(shock!!! > > Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats >me like > > shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I >got the > > worst! > > I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my >ground > > with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking >about > > his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. > > That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. > I > > grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " > But > > I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And >that's > > ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. >Like I > > needed to " surrender. " > > I think I desperately need more people in my life like those >two > > co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because >they > > wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. > > Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them >would tell > > me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss > > unconditionally. " > > But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've >begun > > to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will >tell you > > that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Telebank Money Market yields are consistently DOUBLE the national average >and CD yields in the TOP 1% nationally for 10 years! FDIC insured. >Click for FREE Information Kit. http://clickhere./click/1124 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of today, I called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay out of therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to hate myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I don't fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my childhood problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my life. The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive people. Mainly, people like my boss. By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially the one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier about it. Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are alive we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt >From: appledtp@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: My brother in cult >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:08:05 -0700 > >It might be useful to find a site which deals with abuse so you can >recognize the outward signs. I wasn't able to do that too well myself a >few years ago, but when I got counseling at the local Women's Crisis >Center (where I ended up working a " humbling " program as a doormat), I >found a pamphlet on abuse and control techniques used by the oppressor >in abusive relationships. Some of them include > >Threatened >Humiliated in public >Called derogatory names >Ignored in terms of thoughts and feelings >Isolated from family and friends >Denied affection as punishment >Manipulated with lies and contradictions > >It's easy to fall into the same role when one has been used to it. The >abuse has to do with power. Someone somewhere gives you boss shit, so >he passes it on to the individual beneath him in the food chain. This >compulsion to pass it on if the abuse is untreated is strong. Have you >ever done therapy work with family issues? >Apple > > > " md matt " wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8595 > > I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I >do for > > the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship >and > > judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. > > I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over >me.(shock!!! > > Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats >me like > > shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I >got the > > worst! > > I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my >ground > > with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking >about > > his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. > > That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. > I > > grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " > But > > I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And >that's > > ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. >Like I > > needed to " surrender. " > > I think I desperately need more people in my life like those >two > > co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because >they > > wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. > > Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them >would tell > > me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss > > unconditionally. " > > But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've >begun > > to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will >tell you > > that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Telebank Money Market yields are consistently DOUBLE the national average >and CD yields in the TOP 1% nationally for 10 years! FDIC insured. >Click for FREE Information Kit. http://clickhere./click/1124 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I think I came from a similarly abusive family structure, though mine involved violent physical abuse as a kid. I'm in therapy again dealing with these issues that never seem to get resolved. What I do try to be conscious of , that helps somewhat, is that when I find myself being sucked into a familiar pattern, I pause & ask myself, " Do I need to do this one again? " , then opt to not repeat the scenario. Sometimes, though, I don't catch myself in time. I guess that I am lucky in that the only patterns that I have NOT repeated are the ones that include violence... On this front, AA was quite useless, and when it was arrived at that I needed to be on medication, well, I in their eyes, became a Newcomer again. Who needs that? MD Matt wrote: > I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of today, I > called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay out of > therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to hate > myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I don't > fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my childhood > problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my life. > The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive > people. Mainly, people like my boss. > By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially the > one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier about it. > Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are alive > we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt > > >From: appledtp@... > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups > >To: 12-step-freeeGroups > >Subject: Re: My brother in cult > >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:08:05 -0700 > > > >It might be useful to find a site which deals with abuse so you can > >recognize the outward signs. I wasn't able to do that too well myself a > >few years ago, but when I got counseling at the local Women's Crisis > >Center (where I ended up working a " humbling " program as a doormat), I > >found a pamphlet on abuse and control techniques used by the oppressor > >in abusive relationships. Some of them include > > > >Threatened > >Humiliated in public > >Called derogatory names > >Ignored in terms of thoughts and feelings > >Isolated from family and friends > >Denied affection as punishment > >Manipulated with lies and contradictions > > > >It's easy to fall into the same role when one has been used to it. The > >abuse has to do with power. Someone somewhere gives you boss shit, so > >he passes it on to the individual beneath him in the food chain. This > >compulsion to pass it on if the abuse is untreated is strong. Have you > >ever done therapy work with family issues? > >Apple > > > > > > " md matt " wrote: > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8595 > > > I ask myself that all the time. Why don't I just avoid the guy. I > >do for > > > the most part. He's always had the upper hand in our relationship > >and > > > judges me without mercy. But I've kissed his ass for years. > > > I had an epiphany today. I let people walk all over > >me.(shock!!! > > > Amazement!!). These women I work with told me that my boss, " treats > >me like > > > shit. " And that although he treats everyone in the office badly, I > >got the > > > worst! > > > I was completely floored. Here I thought I was standing my > >ground > > > with my boss, being confident. I spent most the afternoon thinking > >about > > > his treatment of me, and damn if the women weren't right. > > > That's the awful thing about abuse. It feels so normal to me. > > I > > > grew up with an abusive father who to this day " treats me like shit. " > > But > > > I'm so damn used to it. I expect people to walk all over me. And > >that's > > > ironic because I was really thinking about returning to AA lately. > >Like I > > > needed to " surrender. " > > > I think I desperately need more people in my life like those > >two > > > co-workers who dared to tell me how they saw it. And not because > >they > > > wanted something, just because they were concerned about me. > > > Imagine finding that in AA or 12 step groups. Most of them > >would tell > > > me to " let go and let God " , " don't fight my boss " and " accept my boss > > > unconditionally. " > > > But it was both an exciting and embarrasssing experience. I've > >begun > > > to become aware of my boss's mistreatment. And any therapist will > >tell you > > > that's the first step. Now, comes the tough part.... > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Telebank Money Market yields are consistently DOUBLE the national average > >and CD yields in the TOP 1% nationally for 10 years! FDIC insured. > >Click for FREE Information Kit. http://clickhere./click/1124 > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Telebank Money Market yields are consistently DOUBLE the national average > and CD yields in the TOP 1% nationally for 10 years! FDIC insured. > Click for FREE Information Kit. http://clickhere./click/1124 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications -- Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands---and all you can do is scratch it. SIR THOMAS BEECHAM, TO AN UNTALENTED WOMAN CELLIST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 At 03:05 PM 13/10/99 GMT, you wrote: >I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of today, I >called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay out of >therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to hate >myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I don't >fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my childhood >problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my life. > The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive >people. Mainly, people like my boss. > By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially the >one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier about it. > Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are alive >we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt Something I found very useful was to write down a list of all the old disfunctional messages (beliefs) I carried around in my head (all I could think of anyway). Dragging them out into daylight made it an awful lot easier to be aware of them. The patterns do get set in your life, but it can mostly be reset by re-writing the program yourself! For every disfunctional or self-defeating belief you are aware of, you can decide what the opposite healthy belief is and make a conscious choice to go with that instead. Over time you can really change your programming. 12 step philosphy and its associated ACA style " my childhood ruined me for life and now I'll always be like this " philosophy really invests the history and old beliefs with more power than they actually have, but as long as someone believes they can't change it, they probably won't. I think having professional therapy can help a great deal but I think it also can work against the individual if they believe they can't change their beliefs themselves and need someone to do it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I've read horrible stories of abuse in various discussion groups on the Internet. There seems to be a pattern that abusers can just pick out who they can abuse. They can just tell... Self-loathing is not a natural human state. Whenever I hated myself, I should really have been directing the emotion to the person or institution that was trying to push me down. A human's natural state is happy, and full of self-love. Our world doesn't exactly promote this state of mind. Our capitalist culture wants us to be unsure of ourselves and unhappy with ourselves so they can sell us more shit that we don't need. Hang in there matt. New habits are within arm's reach. Apple original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8599 > I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of today, I > called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay out of > therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to hate > myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I don't > fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my childhood > problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my life. > The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive > people. Mainly, people like my boss. > By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially the > one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier about it. > Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are alive > we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I've figured out the hardest thing for me to do is stand up for myself. I always think something bad will happen to me if I do. That's basically training from my parents. If I ever talked back to my father, he'd shut me out or take something away from me. I learned early on to be very submissive. Most of my relationships since then follow that pattern. And yes, I'm attracted to abusive people. In my subconscious, I think its what I deserve. To be walked on. And you have no idea how crazy that makes me. The worst part about being an abuse victim is being aware that you enjoy being controlled. Its a hard thing to live with. But I've been trying desperately to change that pattern for several years. And I truly believe that abusers seek out their victims. They can tell you will take it and who wont't. Not to make myself look all golden. I've treated people badly before. I'm no saint. And abusive relationships are a two way street. I try like hell to get out of any controlling relationship before it becomes too comfortable for me. >From: appledtp@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: My brother in cult >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:22:56 -0700 > >I've read horrible stories of abuse in various discussion groups on the >Internet. There seems to be a pattern that abusers can just pick out >who they can abuse. They can just tell... Self-loathing is not a >natural human state. Whenever I hated myself, I should really have been >directing the emotion to the person or institution that was trying to >push me down. A human's natural state is happy, and full of self-love. >Our world doesn't exactly promote this state of mind. Our capitalist >culture wants us to be unsure of ourselves and unhappy with ourselves >so they can sell us more shit that we don't need. > >Hang in there matt. New habits are within arm's reach. >Apple > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8599 > > I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of >today, I > > called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay >out of > > therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to >hate > > myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I >don't > > fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my >childhood > > problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my >life. > > The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive > > people. Mainly, people like my boss. > > By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially >the > > one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier >about it. > > Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are >alive > > we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 I've figured out the hardest thing for me to do is stand up for myself. I always think something bad will happen to me if I do. That's basically training from my parents. If I ever talked back to my father, he'd shut me out or take something away from me. I learned early on to be very submissive. Most of my relationships since then follow that pattern. And yes, I'm attracted to abusive people. In my subconscious, I think its what I deserve. To be walked on. And you have no idea how crazy that makes me. The worst part about being an abuse victim is being aware that you enjoy being controlled. Its a hard thing to live with. But I've been trying desperately to change that pattern for several years. And I truly believe that abusers seek out their victims. They can tell you will take it and who wont't. Not to make myself look all golden. I've treated people badly before. I'm no saint. And abusive relationships are a two way street. I try like hell to get out of any controlling relationship before it becomes too comfortable for me. >From: appledtp@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: Re: My brother in cult >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:22:56 -0700 > >I've read horrible stories of abuse in various discussion groups on the >Internet. There seems to be a pattern that abusers can just pick out >who they can abuse. They can just tell... Self-loathing is not a >natural human state. Whenever I hated myself, I should really have been >directing the emotion to the person or institution that was trying to >push me down. A human's natural state is happy, and full of self-love. >Our world doesn't exactly promote this state of mind. Our capitalist >culture wants us to be unsure of ourselves and unhappy with ourselves >so they can sell us more shit that we don't need. > >Hang in there matt. New habits are within arm's reach. >Apple > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8599 > > I've done therapy in the past to deal with family issues. As of >today, I > > called my old counselor to head back in. Unfortunately, when I stay >out of > > therapy, I forget my parents' influence on my thinking and start to >hate > > myself again. I've got to watch myself like a hawk to make sure I >don't > > fall back into the old routine. I didn't start to face any of my >childhood > > problems till I was 25 and by that time patterns had been set in my >life. > > The main pattern is one of being very subservient towards abusive > > people. Mainly, people like my boss. > > By the way, he matches those " traits " like a glove. Especially >the > > one about ignoring my thoughts and feelings. He's almost cavalier >about it. > > Oh well, live and learn. I keep remembering, 'every day we are >alive > > we learn life lessons.' I've learned one this week. Matt > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 Wow, can I relate. I had to learn to stand up for myself when I let a whacko from the AA meetings move into my house. She just had a " stong " personality I told myself, but WOW, she ended up being a manipulator and steamroller! If I hadn't found my courage (and fast) she would be living in my room, wearing my clothes and driving my car with me in a pup-tent in the back yard scratching my head wondering how it all happened. It was hard, but I stood up for myself, and I kicked her out. She hated it that I stood up to her, because many people didn't, but it gave me a ton of self-confidence. Change is always uncomfortable in the beginning, until the new behavior becomes a habit. Apple " md matt " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8604 > I've figured out the hardest thing for me to do is stand up for myself. I > always think something bad will happen to me if I do. That's basically > training from my parents. If I ever talked back to my father, he'd shut me > out or take something away from me. I learned early on to be very > submissive. > Most of my relationships since then follow that pattern. And yes, > I'm attracted to abusive people. In my subconscious, I think its what I > deserve. To be walked on. And you have no idea how crazy that makes me. > The worst part about being an abuse victim is being aware that you > enjoy being controlled. Its a hard thing to live with. But I've been > trying desperately to change that pattern for several years. > And I truly believe that abusers seek out their victims. They can tell > you will take it and who wont't. > Not to make myself look all golden. I've treated people badly before. > I'm no saint. And abusive relationships are a two way street. I try like > hell to get out of any controlling relationship before it becomes too > comfortable for me. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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