RE: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

[Guest guest]

,

I appreciate you taking the time to communicate a balanced and informed set of

information on this, although I don’t think the wussyness of Americans is

caused solely by poor nutrition, rather by excess consumption of government

goodies and selfish litigation. Seriously, I appreciate the communication below.

As a marathon runner, I lose a lot of electrolytes and water through

perspiration during the many months of training and am very active in other

sweaty pursuits year round. If I just replaced the water without adding sodium

and potassium, I would get into trouble. I agree with the body being able to

tell the one who listens to back off on sodium. I recently made popcorn and way

overdid the salt. I didn’t want to waste it, so I suffered through most of it

before finally throwing it out. I couldn’t stand the taste of salt for several

days! I even left it off the rim of my margarita glass that weekend! I have

suffered in recent years from some cramping during long (2 – 3 hr.) runs on

the treadmill from all the sweating due to no wind cooling in a stationary

position. I can’t keep up with the electrolyte loss with sports drinks. I need

to try a fan, I guess.

As for magnesium, a bath with Epsom salts has been shown to increase blood

levels with appropriate, safe excretion of excessive absorption by the kidneys.

W. Rowell, RD, LN

Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

Certified LEAP Therapist

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of

Vajda

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:15 AM

To: rd-usa

Subject: Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

Salt is an essential nutrient and trying to tell us what we indidvidually need

is dangerous and demeaning - salt needs vary with hydration and renal flow and

sweat losses and intake can be guided quite well by taste if the person is

trained in self awareness. In high cortisol situations - stress - the kidneys

waste salt and magnesium. We are not a nation of wusses or wimps we are a nation

in nutrition imbalance and it is affecting our moods. Magnesium deficiency -

irritability and rage and lawsuits. Iodine deficiency - apathy and depression. I

loved the lawn darts too - and definately could have maimed each other with them

but somehow we didn't.

Water and electrolyte needs are linked; we need similar amounts of potassium and

sodium throughout the day and increased amounts if losses are excessive.

There is no Upper Limit set for water and a ridiculously low one for sodium. We

are told in the Water/Electrolyte report written by the IOM, “No UL for water

because normally functioning kidneys can handle more than 0.7 L (24 oz) of fluid

per hour; symptoms of water intoxication include hyponatremia which can result

in heart failure and rhabdomyolosis (skeletal muscle tissue injury) which can

lead to kidney failure.†Sub-populations of people living in controlled dining

settings may have their sodium intake limited by the new AI recommendation but

be allowed to drink whatever beverages they want and hyponatremia could occur,

especially if there were further electrolyte losses due to diarrhea or increased

sweat.

Sodium – DRI too low, and chronic stress causes us to excrete too much.

Yes – the fast food /processed food eater needs more potassium rich fruits

and veggies and probably less salt but telling everyone to aim ridiculously low

is only going to put people willing to follow ridiculous guidelines at risk and

those sub-populations whose intake is externally controlled like tube fed

patients and infant formula users.

The AI for sodium was reduced in 2004 to 1.5 gram/day for the average age male

or female and the UL was reduced to 2.3 gram/day. The average daily intake of

sodium, from the NHANES III, 1988-1994, data, was 3.4 grams, with a range of

intakes from 1.17 to 7.4 grams. UL’s are supposed to be the

toxic-acute-effects

are-going-to-occur-if-you-eat-more-than-this-amount number, and clearly 2.3

grams of sodium a day didn’t cause pause for those 290 people eating 7.4 grams

of sodium per day for six years time. Seventy five percent of the 29000 people

consumed more than 2.4 grams of sodium per day during the six year study and if

they suffered acute toxic effects, then they didn’t mention it. There is too

much hidden salt in processed foods, but telling people to limit their intake to

an amount less than that consumed by 95% of 29000 people is unrealistic and may

be unsafe (the 5% average intake was 1.67 gr/day).

The taste buds are good at guiding us to what we need and then telling us to

stop. Food tastes good when we are hungry for it and tastes less good when we

are satisfied. It takes a little practice to listen for those signals but the

body is good at guiding us to a balanced intake.

Salt flavor disappears into the food as it cooks, so processed foods are

saturated with salt so it will taste salty throughout. I don’t use salt in

most

of my cooking (essential in baking though) and my family knows to salt at the

table. If we salt to taste, eat a reasonable amount of potassium containing

fruits and veggies and drink plenty of water, then we will have plenty of fluid

for cleaning out toxins in the urine and ultimately will be healthier then if we

unreasonably stress over salt with no consideration of potassium or fluid

intake. Only 10% of the population has been found to have hypertension that was

‘salt sensitive’. The DRI report on sodium and blood pressure used average

intakes of 3 or 4 grams and upper level intakes of 9 and 25.9 grams per day.

There was a slight increase in blood pressure, not significantly different, in

the eight healthy individuals who consumed 25,900 mg of sodium per day for 5

days. This makes our new and improved Upper Limit of 2300 mg seem inappropriate.

A daily Adequate Intake recommendation for sodium of 1.5 gr/day also seems

unrealistic for the majority of the population and could put people who drink

adequate fluid while limiting salt at risk of hyponatremia

(sunstroke/heatstroke).

R Vajda, R.D.

________________________________

From: Ortiz <nrord1@...<mailto:nrord1%40gmail.com>>

To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 3:11:58 PM

Subject: Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

Exactly ...I guess I feel we have to be careful of what we regulate -

here we are regulating food too much but then letting dietary supplements go

carte blanche. The problem with sodium is that people can still add salt at

the table. Darn - I loved those lawn darts.

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Rowell,

<drowell@...<mailto:drowell%40mt.gov>> wrote:

>

>

> Interesting article! But I'm having a hard time figuring out what it has to

> do with sodium. I would definitely be interested in hearing how you relate

> that to the sodium discussion. Maybe because we are letting the government

> decide how to keep up safe? Like, how much sodium we should be allowed to

> " like " and eat?

>

> Yeah, pro football games have never been cancelled for snow before! I blame

> global warming. )

>

>

> Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<mailto:drowell%40mt.gov><drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-St\

ates.aspx

>x

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for sharing/reminding us of these statistics. You aptly describe a

big picture perspective that is sorely needed in a time where single nutrient

manipulations are getting us nowhere fast. I realize that many nutrition

researchers and educators take a comprehensive view, but how to get the food

industry off the single nutrient(s) focus where they make there $$$'s. . . Our

biggest competitor for nutrition education of the public is food industry

advertising, and they love this kind of nutrition recommendation.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Diane Preves, M.S., R.D.

N.E.W. LIFE (Nutrition, Exercise, Wellness for LIFE)

www.newlifeforhealth.com

e-mail: newlife4health@..., newlife@...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/newlifedianepreves

http://www.facebook.com/people/Diane-Preves/1357243185

http://twitter.com/DianePreves

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-St\

ates.aspx

>x

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for sharing/reminding us of these statistics. You aptly describe a

big picture perspective that is sorely needed in a time where single nutrient

manipulations are getting us nowhere fast. I realize that many nutrition

researchers and educators take a comprehensive view, but how to get the food

industry off the single nutrient(s) focus where they make there $$$'s. . . Our

biggest competitor for nutrition education of the public is food industry

advertising, and they love this kind of nutrition recommendation.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Diane Preves, M.S., R.D.

N.E.W. LIFE (Nutrition, Exercise, Wellness for LIFE)

www.newlifeforhealth.com

e-mail: newlife4health@..., newlife@...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/newlifedianepreves

http://www.facebook.com/people/Diane-Preves/1357243185

http://twitter.com/DianePreves

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-St\

ates.aspx

>x

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for sharing/reminding us of these statistics. You aptly describe a

big picture perspective that is sorely needed in a time where single nutrient

manipulations are getting us nowhere fast. I realize that many nutrition

researchers and educators take a comprehensive view, but how to get the food

industry off the single nutrient(s) focus where they make there $$$'s. . . Our

biggest competitor for nutrition education of the public is food industry

advertising, and they love this kind of nutrition recommendation.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Diane Preves, M.S., R.D.

N.E.W. LIFE (Nutrition, Exercise, Wellness for LIFE)

www.newlifeforhealth.com

e-mail: newlife4health@..., newlife@...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/newlifedianepreves

http://www.facebook.com/people/Diane-Preves/1357243185

http://twitter.com/DianePreves

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-St\

ates.aspx

>x

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>