RE: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

[Guest guest]

How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

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> The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change without

anyone noticing the change:

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

>

> I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs to

cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to make

concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are simply

not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of those who

are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as deleterious to health

as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see in nursing homes is the

elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop eating. They lose a sense of

appetite because of inactivity and loss of taste sensation. Sodium and sugar

sparks that appetite again, so I am constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g

NA diets in NHs to improve intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it

takes more, not less, for them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they

were younger.

>

> Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the

government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I and

most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We won't

change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the food

supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best " crowd

will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of them.

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN

> Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> Certified LEAP Therapist

>

>

[Guest guest]

Herbs and spices might work for the elderly, if they like them! But what I see

is they refuse to eat things they are not used to. So, we are back to getting

them to eat...period. If it takes salt to get them nourished, I'm doing it.

What's worse, slowly starving to death are risking higher blood pressure? High

blood pressure is better than none. Although, I don't think it causes high blood

pressure as much as they claim. I don't think saying " sodium is not good for

anyone " is accurate, particularly since it is a requirement by the human body. A

normal kidney can handle some excess sodium that spices up food to get my

elderly patients to eat.

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change without

anyone noticing the change:

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs to

cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to make

concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are simply

not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of those who

are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as deleterious to health

as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see in nursing homes is the

elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop eating. They lose a sense of

appetite because of inactivity and loss of taste sensation. Sodium and sugar

sparks that appetite again, so I am constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g

NA diets in NHs to improve intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it

takes more, not less, for them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they

were younger.

Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like 2g/day.

As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the government

telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I and most

Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We won't change

the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the food supply.

That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best " crowd will want

to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of them.

W. Rowell, RD, LN

Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

Certified LEAP Therapist

[Guest guest]

Herbs and spices might work for the elderly, if they like them! But what I see

is they refuse to eat things they are not used to. So, we are back to getting

them to eat...period. If it takes salt to get them nourished, I'm doing it.

What's worse, slowly starving to death are risking higher blood pressure? High

blood pressure is better than none. Although, I don't think it causes high blood

pressure as much as they claim. I don't think saying " sodium is not good for

anyone " is accurate, particularly since it is a requirement by the human body. A

normal kidney can handle some excess sodium that spices up food to get my

elderly patients to eat.

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change without

anyone noticing the change:

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs to

cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to make

concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are simply

not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of those who

are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as deleterious to health

as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see in nursing homes is the

elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop eating. They lose a sense of

appetite because of inactivity and loss of taste sensation. Sodium and sugar

sparks that appetite again, so I am constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g

NA diets in NHs to improve intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it

takes more, not less, for them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they

were younger.

Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like 2g/day.

As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the government

telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I and most

Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We won't change

the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the food supply.

That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best " crowd will want

to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of them.

W. Rowell, RD, LN

Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

Certified LEAP Therapist

[Guest guest]

Makes me think of an article in the Wall Street Journal I just read: Link

here<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808704576061931478655322.h\

tml?KEYWORDS=wuss>

We're a nation of wimps. Of sissies. Of wusses. They're the words trotted

out when talking about our country's leaders, our children's generation, or

the whiniest, most-fearful, most-paranoid aspects of our culture today.

Just last week, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell belittled the NFL for

postponing an Eagles-Vikings football game because of a snowstorm. " We've

become a nation of wusses, " he said. And in a YouTube video, the grandmother

of actor Franco mocked the manliness of anyone who couldn't watch Mr.

Franco's grisly amputation scene in the film " 127 Hours. "

Why are these such potent accusations in America?

It's because the charge touches on our national identity. Gov. Rendell says

he was stunned by the interest in his comments, but on reflection, he now

understands why his words stung. " Our country was founded by incredible

risk-takers, " he says. " They were an army of farmers and shopkeepers, and

they fought knowing that if they lost, they'd be hung. We seem to have lost

our boldness. "

The United States defined itself by its pioneer spirit. " We were the brash

Bunyan nation with a don't-tread-on-us culture, " says Strausbaugh,

author of the 2008 book " Sissy Nation. "

Mr. Strausbaugh argues that World War II traumatized a generation of

American men. Looking to shake off all that they had witnessed—horrific

battles, Nazi atrocities—many of these former soldiers retreated into the

U.S. suburbs, building lives of conformity. They became less adventurous,

raising coddled children whose offspring would be even more indulged.

The end result, he says, is a " sissy nation " in which adults talk about

their homes or apartments as " cribs, " and every activity needs a helmet. As

he puts it: " Once we were warriors. Now we're worriers. "

Others agree. On New Year's Day, California enacted several hundred new

laws—one requires a medical physical before undergoing plastic surgery—that

led to a litany of laments in the blogosphere that it has become a nanny

state. " We're now a culture focused more on safety than freedom, " says Steve

Olson, a 41-year-old IT manager in Savage, Minn. He dates the change in

America to sometime between 1984, when " baby-on-board " signs were first seen

on minivans, and 1988, when the Consumer Product Safety Commission banned

lawn darts.

For his part, Mr. Olson has fond memories of his own childhood in rural

Minnesota in the 1970s. His family grew vegetables, which he sold

door-to-door. " When my brother was 10, he peddled vegetables on the highway.

Allowing a child to do that today would get a parent arrested, " he says.

Meanwhile, linguists are noticing that our word choices on these issues are

often unwittingly rooted in sexism or homophobia. " Wuss " began to spread as

campus slang in the 1970s, and was popularized in the 1982 movie " Fast Times

at Ridgemont High. " A character in the film is described as " a wuss: part

wimp and part p—. "

" Whenever men pick a female body part and apply it to other men, that's the

height of insult, " says , an English-language historian and

researcher at Indiana University, and author of " Slang: The People's

Poetry. "

When asked, Gov. Rendell admits to being unaware of the roots of the word

wuss. But Mr. is willing to give the governor a pass. " There are those

who believe a word ought to always mean what it always meant, but that's not

how language works. Words like 'wuss' and 'wussy' can end up de-vulgarized

after awhile. "

Then-California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger recently called members of

Congress " wimps " for not standing up to oil companies. The new " No Labels "

political organization—with its motto " Not Left. Not Right. Forward. " —has

been dismissed by pundits as " the Politics of Wuss. "

Even some public name-callers are having second thoughts. Hara Estroff

Marano now wishes she hadn't named her 2008 book about invasive parenting " A

Nation of Wimps. " Perhaps " Beyond Fragility " would have been better, she

says, now that she sees politicians like Gov. Rendell jousting on TV talk

shows using words such as " wussy, " " wimpy, " and " sissy. "

" It's unbecoming for leaders to speak like that, " she says. " It's a

legitimate topic, but this isn't how we should raise the discussion—by

slinging around slurs. "

And some Americans are getting tired of being called " wusses. " DeNoia,

a 29-year-old proposal-writer for a government contractor in Virginia Beach,

Va., says more sporting events should have been canceled during the recent

East Coast snowstorm. Her brother and father went to the NHL's New Jersey

Devils' game on the evening of Dec. 26, and afterward, their car got stuck

overnight in the snow. It was 9 a.m. before they were able to dig out.

Ms. DeNoia was bothered by coverage of Gov. Rendell's remarks. In a letter

to him, she wrote: " We're not a nation of wusses. We're a nation of

fearless, bumbling morons in pickup trucks who like to drink beer, go

shirtless in the freezing cold for football, and drive in blizzards. " She

argued that true leaders are mature enough to make unpopular decisions to

protect the public's safety.

>

>

> Herbs and spices might work for the elderly, if they like them! But what I

> see is they refuse to eat things they are not used to. So, we are back to

> getting them to eat...period. If it takes salt to get them nourished, I'm

> doing it. What's worse, slowly starving to death are risking higher blood

> pressure? High blood pressure is better than none. Although, I don't think

> it causes high blood pressure as much as they claim. I don't think saying

> " sodium is not good for anyone " is accurate, particularly since it is a

> requirement by the human body. A normal kidney can handle some excess sodium

> that spices up food to get my elderly patients to eat.

>

>

> Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

>

> How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

>

> On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell, <drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>>

> wrote:

> The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> without anyone noticing the change:

>

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

>

> I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are

> simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of

> those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see

> in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less, for

> them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

>

> Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the

> government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I

> and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We

> won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the

> food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best "

> crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> them.

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN

> Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> Certified LEAP Therapist

>

>

>

--

Ortiz, MS, RD

*The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

*Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

*

*Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

*One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

<http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437>\

" Nutrition

is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

[Guest guest]

Interesting article! But I'm having a hard time figuring out what it has to do

with sodium. I would definitely be interested in hearing how you relate that to

the sodium discussion. Maybe because we are letting the government decide how to

keep up safe? Like, how much sodium we should be allowed to " like " and eat?

Yeah, pro football games have never been cancelled for snow before! I blame

global warming. )

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

>

> How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

>

> On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell, <drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>>

> wrote:

> The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> without anyone noticing the change:

>

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

>

> I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are

> simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of

> those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see

> in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less, for

> them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

>

> Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the

> government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I

> and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We

> won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the

> food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best "

> crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> them.

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN

> Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> Certified LEAP Therapist

>

>

>

--

Ortiz, MS, RD

*The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

*Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

*

*Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

*One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

<http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437>\

" Nutrition

is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

[Guest guest]

Interesting article! But I'm having a hard time figuring out what it has to do

with sodium. I would definitely be interested in hearing how you relate that to

the sodium discussion. Maybe because we are letting the government decide how to

keep up safe? Like, how much sodium we should be allowed to " like " and eat?

Yeah, pro football games have never been cancelled for snow before! I blame

global warming. )

Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

>

> How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

>

> On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell, <drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>>

> wrote:

> The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> without anyone noticing the change:

>

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

>

> I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are

> simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of

> those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see

> in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less, for

> them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

>

> Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the

> government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I

> and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We

> won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the

> food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best "

> crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> them.

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN

> Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> Certified LEAP Therapist

>

>

>

--

Ortiz, MS, RD

*The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

*Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

*

*Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

*One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

<http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437>\

" Nutrition

is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

[Guest guest]

Jen I must say I agree - I have been following all of the research on

salt/sodium for over 15 years and the more they research the worse it

becomes. We have a research paper here with over 200 references that would

send anyone headed to the oregano jar instead of the salt shaker. And the

more I try to find fast food or frozen food that is acceptable the more I am

reminded to buy it and cook it because those items are SO high in sodium.

http://foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/salt_new.php

*

*

*Summary of Research:*

- Salt toxicity and subsequent hypertension (HTN) is the #1 destroyer of

kidneys

- HTN is a major risk factor for senility, which can take the fun out of

ones latter years and the lives of the families caring for them.

- HTN being the #1 risk factor for stroke, which is the #1 reason people

go into a nursing home for the rest of their lives.

- And while heart attacks are down, heart failure is up and the #1 cause

of heart failure is salt toxicity and related HTN.

- Heart failure coupled with excess salt intake is the #1 reason

Americans get admitted to a hospital.

- Heart failure is also known as congestive heart failure because fluid

builds up in the lungs (causing congestions) causing shortness of breath and

a slow suffocation. Living with a failing heart usually means relatively low

enjoyment of life.

- Hypertension and salt toxicity greatly increase the risk of developing

Atrial Fibrillation - the most common heart rythm disorder

- And let's not forget HTN and salt toxicty are major causes of the 1.5

million heart attacks each year.

- Excess salt and meat are the two major causes of kidney stones

- The increased calcium lost in the urine with each salty meals

contributes to osteoporotic fractures

- Cancers of the stomach, esophagus, and kidneys are all prmoted by

excessive salt intake

- Excess salt intake promotes more headaches and heartburn

- The majority of Americans have HTN by the time they are in their 60s

and of those who are lucky enough to escape HTN up to age 65y two-thirds

will still develop it before their 75th birthday and 90% by their 85th

birthday.

- According to a recent University of Southern California study reducing

salt intake by 1200mg/day (or by less than 1/3) would save as many lives

over the next 10 years as if all American smokers quit tomorrow for good.

- And research shows that cutting sodium intake even more to about 1200

to 1500mg/day depending on age would virtually eliminate HTN and other lills

caused largely by added ( " second hand " ) salt.

HTN is usually reversable without drugs; salt kills far more Americans than

tobacco (or anything else); salt is no longer needed to preserve food and

the FDA classifies salt as " Generally Recognised as Safe " even though the

CDC recently said almost 70% of all Americans, including everyone over 40

years of age, should cut their salt intake by nearly 2/3 to 1500 mg.

Medical treatments like angioplasty do nothing to reduce the risk of dying

from CVD but cutting salt and returning BP to normal can cut the risk of CVD

by at least 70 to 80% if you have HTN. Clearly HTN and salt toxicity are not

something that only a small percentage of Americans need concern themselves

with.

Judy

Judy Doherty, Food and Health Communications

Email: judydoherty@...

http://foodandhealth.com

Sales: | Judy:

> How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and

> restaurants reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually

> change without anyone noticing the change:

> >

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people are

> simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake of

> those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I see

> in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less, for

> them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want the

> government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences. I

> and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle. We

> won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating the

> food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows best "

> crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Exactly ...I guess I feel we have to be careful of what we regulate -

here we are regulating food too much but then letting dietary supplements go

carte blanche. The problem with sodium is that people can still add salt at

the table. Darn - I loved those lawn darts.

>

>

> Interesting article! But I'm having a hard time figuring out what it has to

> do with sodium. I would definitely be interested in hearing how you relate

> that to the sodium discussion. Maybe because we are letting the government

> decide how to keep up safe? Like, how much sodium we should be allowed to

> " like " and eat?

>

> Yeah, pro football games have never been cancelled for snow before! I blame

> global warming. )

>

>

> Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly ...I guess I feel we have to be careful of what we regulate -

here we are regulating food too much but then letting dietary supplements go

carte blanche. The problem with sodium is that people can still add salt at

the table. Darn - I loved those lawn darts.

>

>

> Interesting article! But I'm having a hard time figuring out what it has to

> do with sodium. I would definitely be interested in hearing how you relate

> that to the sodium discussion. Maybe because we are letting the government

> decide how to keep up safe? Like, how much sodium we should be allowed to

> " like " and eat?

>

> Yeah, pro football games have never been cancelled for snow before! I blame

> global warming. )

>

>

> Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>

http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-Sta\

tes.aspx

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I appreciate you taking the time to communicate a balanced and informed set of

information on this, although I don’t think the wussyness of Americans is

caused solely by poor nutrition, rather by excess consumption of government

goodies and selfish litigation. Seriously, I appreciate the communication below.

As a marathon runner, I lose a lot of electrolytes and water through

perspiration during the many months of training and am very active in other

sweaty pursuits year round. If I just replaced the water without adding sodium

and potassium, I would get into trouble. I agree with the body being able to

tell the one who listens to back off on sodium. I recently made popcorn and way

overdid the salt. I didn’t want to waste it, so I suffered through most of it

before finally throwing it out. I couldn’t stand the taste of salt for several

days! I even left it off the rim of my margarita glass that weekend! I have

suffered in recent years from some cramping during long (2 – 3 hr.) runs on

the treadmill from all the sweating due to no wind cooling in a stationary

position. I can’t keep up with the electrolyte loss with sports drinks. I need

to try a fan, I guess.

As for magnesium, a bath with Epsom salts has been shown to increase blood

levels with appropriate, safe excretion of excessive absorption by the kidneys.

W. Rowell, RD, LN

Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

Certified LEAP Therapist

From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of

Vajda

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:15 AM

To: rd-usa

Subject: Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

Salt is an essential nutrient and trying to tell us what we indidvidually need

is dangerous and demeaning - salt needs vary with hydration and renal flow and

sweat losses and intake can be guided quite well by taste if the person is

trained in self awareness. In high cortisol situations - stress - the kidneys

waste salt and magnesium. We are not a nation of wusses or wimps we are a nation

in nutrition imbalance and it is affecting our moods. Magnesium deficiency -

irritability and rage and lawsuits. Iodine deficiency - apathy and depression. I

loved the lawn darts too - and definately could have maimed each other with them

but somehow we didn't.

Water and electrolyte needs are linked; we need similar amounts of potassium and

sodium throughout the day and increased amounts if losses are excessive.

There is no Upper Limit set for water and a ridiculously low one for sodium. We

are told in the Water/Electrolyte report written by the IOM, “No UL for water

because normally functioning kidneys can handle more than 0.7 L (24 oz) of fluid

per hour; symptoms of water intoxication include hyponatremia which can result

in heart failure and rhabdomyolosis (skeletal muscle tissue injury) which can

lead to kidney failure.†Sub-populations of people living in controlled dining

settings may have their sodium intake limited by the new AI recommendation but

be allowed to drink whatever beverages they want and hyponatremia could occur,

especially if there were further electrolyte losses due to diarrhea or increased

sweat.

Sodium – DRI too low, and chronic stress causes us to excrete too much.

Yes – the fast food /processed food eater needs more potassium rich fruits

and veggies and probably less salt but telling everyone to aim ridiculously low

is only going to put people willing to follow ridiculous guidelines at risk and

those sub-populations whose intake is externally controlled like tube fed

patients and infant formula users.

The AI for sodium was reduced in 2004 to 1.5 gram/day for the average age male

or female and the UL was reduced to 2.3 gram/day. The average daily intake of

sodium, from the NHANES III, 1988-1994, data, was 3.4 grams, with a range of

intakes from 1.17 to 7.4 grams. UL’s are supposed to be the

toxic-acute-effects

are-going-to-occur-if-you-eat-more-than-this-amount number, and clearly 2.3

grams of sodium a day didn’t cause pause for those 290 people eating 7.4 grams

of sodium per day for six years time. Seventy five percent of the 29000 people

consumed more than 2.4 grams of sodium per day during the six year study and if

they suffered acute toxic effects, then they didn’t mention it. There is too

much hidden salt in processed foods, but telling people to limit their intake to

an amount less than that consumed by 95% of 29000 people is unrealistic and may

be unsafe (the 5% average intake was 1.67 gr/day).

The taste buds are good at guiding us to what we need and then telling us to

stop. Food tastes good when we are hungry for it and tastes less good when we

are satisfied. It takes a little practice to listen for those signals but the

body is good at guiding us to a balanced intake.

Salt flavor disappears into the food as it cooks, so processed foods are

saturated with salt so it will taste salty throughout. I don’t use salt in

most

of my cooking (essential in baking though) and my family knows to salt at the

table. If we salt to taste, eat a reasonable amount of potassium containing

fruits and veggies and drink plenty of water, then we will have plenty of fluid

for cleaning out toxins in the urine and ultimately will be healthier then if we

unreasonably stress over salt with no consideration of potassium or fluid

intake. Only 10% of the population has been found to have hypertension that was

‘salt sensitive’. The DRI report on sodium and blood pressure used average

intakes of 3 or 4 grams and upper level intakes of 9 and 25.9 grams per day.

There was a slight increase in blood pressure, not significantly different, in

the eight healthy individuals who consumed 25,900 mg of sodium per day for 5

days. This makes our new and improved Upper Limit of 2300 mg seem inappropriate.

A daily Adequate Intake recommendation for sodium of 1.5 gr/day also seems

unrealistic for the majority of the population and could put people who drink

adequate fluid while limiting salt at risk of hyponatremia

(sunstroke/heatstroke).

R Vajda, R.D.

________________________________

From: Ortiz <nrord1@...<mailto:nrord1%40gmail.com>>

To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 3:11:58 PM

Subject: Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

Exactly ...I guess I feel we have to be careful of what we regulate -

here we are regulating food too much but then letting dietary supplements go

carte blanche. The problem with sodium is that people can still add salt at

the table. Darn - I loved those lawn darts.

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Rowell,

<drowell@...<mailto:drowell%40mt.gov>> wrote:

>

>

> Interesting article! But I'm having a hard time figuring out what it has to

> do with sodium. I would definitely be interested in hearing how you relate

> that to the sodium discussion. Maybe because we are letting the government

> decide how to keep up safe? Like, how much sodium we should be allowed to

> " like " and eat?

>

> Yeah, pro football games have never been cancelled for snow before! I blame

> global warming. )

>

>

> Re: Strategies to reduce sodium intake in the US

> >

> > How about using other herbs /spices for those elderly instead of

> > sodium....honestly sodium is just not good for anyone. Working in the

> > renal arena, you might have a different frame of mind.

> >

> > On Thursday, January 6, 2011, Rowell,

<drowell@...<mailto:drowell%40mt.gov><drowell%40mt.gov>

> <drowell%40mt.gov>>

>

> > wrote:

> > The IOM is pushing to mandate that food manufacturers and restaurants

> > reduce sodium so that American's taste for sodium will gradually change

> > without anyone noticing the change:

> >

> >

>http://iom.edu/Reports/2010/Strategies-to-Reduce-Sodium-Intake-in-the-United-St\

ates.aspx

>x

> >

> > I doubt seriously that tactic will work. I also doubt that everyone needs

> > to cut back on salt to a level of 2300mg/day. I definitely see a need to

> > make concerted effort to reduce salt in prepared foods, but some people

> are

> > simply not salt sensitive. We don't all need to avoid salt for the sake

> of

> > those who are. I'm just not so sure from the research that it is as

> > deleterious to health as the IOM, NIH, FDA, etc. make it sound. What I

> see

> > in nursing homes is the elderly losing a sense of taste, so they stop

> > eating. They lose a sense of appetite because of inactivity and loss of

> > taste sensation. Sodium and sugar sparks that appetite again, so I am

> > constantly trying to liberalize NCS and 2g NA diets in NHs to improve

> > intake. The elderly can still taste salt, but it takes more, not less,

> for

> > them to be able to sense that same flavor as when they were younger.

> >

> > Again, I do see a need to reduce sodium, but not to extreme levels like

> > 2g/day. As for private restaurants and food manufacturers, I don't want

> the

> > government telling them how they should manipulate my taste preferences.

> I

> > and most Americans will rebel against that loss of, simply on principle.

> We

> > won't change the public's preferences for salt and sugar by manipulating

> the

> > food supply. That will never happen. Those from " the government knows

> best "

> > crowd will want to comply with these strict mandates, but I'm not one of

> > them.

> >

> > W. Rowell, RD, LN

> > Montana State Hospital, Warm Spring, MT

> > Consultant Dietitian, Long Term Care

> > Certified LEAP Therapist

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Ortiz, MS, RD

> *The FRUGAL Dietitian* <http://www.thefrugaldietitian.com>

>

> Check out my blog: mixture of deals and nutrition

>

> *Yes it is National Bean Day: January 6th!!!

> *

>

> *Try out for this contest* in honor of the esteemed *Dried Bean*!!

> *One winner will win the Book " Magic Beans: 150 recipes " along with a new

> canvas tote bag (pink trimmed*

> <http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=12001><

> http://thefrugaldietitian.com/?p=10437> " Nutrition

>

> is a science, Not an Opinion survey "

>

>

[Guest guest]

YES, you are so right. Sodium is not the big bad salt everyone makes it out to

be. To treat 10% of our population we are going to enforce a low sodium diet on

everyone. What happens to the the other end of the spectrum the sodium wasters

and people who have adrenal problems. Are they going to have to get a Rx for

salt in the future. I worked dialysis for 14 years dialysis patients have

problems with salt because their kidneys don't work. Most of my patient's who

went into kidney failure due to HTN was because the HTN was never able to be

controlled by multiple meds. This is not normal. BUT more importantly there are

many areas in the US where you can not follow a 2 gram sodium diet because of

the sodium levels in the water. Do you know how much sodium is in your water?

Then there is water that is soften using sodium chloride, forget a 2 gram sodium

restriction. What we need to be doing is letting people know that increasing

their potassium intake is the way to go. Let me see oh yeah, more fruits and

vegetables. Sound familiar. For those of you to young to remember how grandma

believed in a good dose of salts, magnesium salt, Epson Salt. Oh God I am dating

myself. We are forgetting that our bodies are not individual chemical pathways,

everything works together. Sodium and potassium balance, magnesium and calcium

balance etc. The more we try and control these balances the worst things are

becoming. Look at taking fat out of our diet, increased obesity, increased

diabetes, and overall morbidity has not gone down. We are less healthy then we

have ever been. If you think it is bad now it is going to get worse.

Interestrified fats increase blood sugars ~15%. Go into diabetic education now

get in on the bottom floor. Vegetarianism and Vegan diets start looking for

decreased heights lower intelligence. We already know this, the historical and

some recent studies have shown this, but meat and milk is BAD so now the FDA is

being sued because they don't have a vegetarian food pyramid. But then again it

may be job security dealing with the fall out.

Jackie Chase RD

Dillingham AK