Re: undenatured whey protein

[Guest guest]

Bob,

Not to beat a dead horse, but I would take the word of over 400 studies done

on Immunocal in peer review medical journals over none published anywhere on L

ife Extensions product (not even in a non peer review medical journal). You

are right, there is a chance that the Life Extension product is as good as

Immunocal but where have they published their studies?? If your salesman you

got the response from can answer that question, I would be ecstatic. That is

my whole issue, facts, not hyperbole. I apologize that I didn't see this

letter earlier or I would have responded then.... Have a great holiday and

lots of health, happiness, and abundance in the new millenium!!

Tony L. = )

In a message dated 11/21/1999 2:28:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

bobk20@... writes:

<< Hi Debbie and Tony,

I was prepared to drop this subject, but when you attack me and put

words in my mouth I feel obligated to set the record straight.

First Tony Luboff said:

" What I take issue with is the fact that you feel that a product like

Immunocal has no value or lessened value because it is sold through a

process of network distribution or " pyramid " as you call it. "

Tony also said:

" Life Extension at least admits that their product is FAR INFERIOR to

Immunocal..which is more than you seem to be able to do. "

Now Debbie says:

" So when you tell folks don't take something this other thing is better,

please make sure you know what it is you are speaking about. "

and:

" You see you can do what ever you like, but for the rest of the folks

how dare you decide what is good and what is bad. "

You are putting words in my mouth that I have never said or implied.

I have never in any post said anything bad about Immunocal nor have I

implied that anything else was better. I have and I still do commend you

for sharing the interesting info about glutathione and undenatured whey

protein. What I have said is that Immunocal and Life Extension are both

simply undenatured whey protein and are identical. Check your own posts

to see who is badmouthing anybody's product. You have a right to post,

but so do I, and this group deserves to have all the info. They are

adults and can decide for themselves to go with the proven name brand or

with the generic version, but they have the right to know about the

options.

If you stick with posting journal articles and research, you will do

well, but you start to lose credibility when you attack your

competition. I enclose the following correspondence with Life Extension

Foundation just in case your statements were true:

Subject:

Ultimate Whey vs. Immunocal

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:20:51 -0800

From: Karjala <bobk20@...>

generalquestions@...

Dear Sirs:

Recently there has been much posting by Immunocal salesmen on the

cures for canceregroups list. One recent post included the following

paragraph:

(copy)

>Life Extension product specailist flatly stated their " Third

>generation Enhanced Protein Whey " listed under " Immune enhancers " was

>far inferior to Immunocal. Also said Immunotec had a patent on the

>chemical compound in Immunocal that made it such a great product.(end

of copy)

The above statement sounds suspiciously fictitious to me, especially

coming from a salesman. Since your product information states: " The

Ultimate Whey Designer Protein is the only commercial whey protein that

duplicates the special whey protein used in numerous published research

studies. " I would like further clarification from you. My understanding

is that both products are simply undenatured whey protein. If I am

wrong, would you please point out any differences to me. Thank you in

advance for your attention to this question. Karjala

Subject: whey

Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:28:13 -0500

From: " " <mlefg@...>

<bobk20@...>

Dear Mr. Karjala,

Both products are excellent for boosting the immune system.Lef advisor.

--

Bob Karjala

My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

mailto:bobk20@...

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

What you say is true and points out the problem of almost all sellers

of herbal and alternative therapies - they don't have the funds or incentive

to fund studies, and the big pharmaceutical companies are certainly not

going to cut their own throats by funding studies on anything they can't

get a monopoly on.

I personally believe the Immunocal and Life Extension Foundation products

will have identical effects since each starts with the same raw materials

and each is purified by similar nondenaturing processes. You will probably

be interested to know that as a result of your many informative posts I

have decided to give the undenatured whey protein a try. I ordered a kilogram

of the LEF product (100x10 gram servings) for $34.20 nonmember sale price.

After ordering I became aware of the bovine growth hormone controversy,

and still have some second thoughts that bGH may also be concentrated to

unacceptably high levels, but I'm going to give it a try for now. It's

too bad I'm not still at my lab at Cedars-Sinai, because I regularly measured

growth hormone levels for clinical studies and could easily have checked

the levels in concentrated whey protein. In my current job I develop monoclonal

antibodies which are used to make quick, inexpensive tests to detect antibiotic

residues in meat and milk and home tests to detect pesticide residues in

water at levels of two or three parts per billion. Best wishes for a happy

holiday season for you and yours.

Bob K.

ParagonWS@... wrote:

Bob,

Not to beat a dead horse, but I would take the word of over 400 studies

done

on Immunocal in peer review medical journals over none published anywhere

on L

ife Extensions product (not even in a non peer review medical journal).

You

are right, there is a chance that the Life Extension product is as

good as

Immunocal but where have they published their studies?? If your

salesman you

got the response from can answer that question, I would be ecstatic.

That is

my whole issue, facts, not hyperbole. I apologize that I didn't see

this

letter earlier or I would have responded then.... Have a great holiday

and

lots of health, happiness, and abundance in the new millenium!!

Tony L. = )

In a message dated 11/21/1999 2:28:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

bobk20@... writes:

<< Hi Debbie and Tony,

I was prepared to drop this subject, but when you attack me and

put

words in my mouth I feel obligated to set the record straight.

First Tony Luboff said:

"What I take issue with is the fact that you feel that a product

like

Immunocal has no value or lessened value because it is sold through

a

process of network distribution or "pyramid" as you call it."

Tony also said:

"Life Extension at least admits that their product is FAR INFERIOR

to

Immunocal..which is more than you seem to be able to do."

Now Debbie says:

"So when you tell folks don't take something this other thing

is better,

please make sure you know what it is you are speaking about."

and:

"You see you can do what ever you like, but for the rest of the

folks

how dare you decide what is good and what is bad."

You are putting words in my mouth that I have never said or implied.

I have never in any post said anything bad about Immunocal nor

have I

implied that anything else was better. I have and I still do

commend you

for sharing the interesting info about glutathione and undenatured

whey

protein. What I have said is that Immunocal and Life Extension

are both

simply undenatured whey protein and are identical. Check your

own posts

to see who is badmouthing anybody's product. You have a right

to post,

but so do I, and this group deserves to have all the info. They

are

adults and can decide for themselves to go with the proven name

brand or

with the generic version, but they have the right to know about

the

options.

If you stick with posting journal articles and research, you will

do

well, but you start to lose credibility when you attack your

competition. I enclose the following correspondence with Life

Extension

Foundation just in case your statements were true:

Subject:

Ultimate Whey vs. Immunocal

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:20:51 -0800

From: Karjala <bobk20@...>

generalquestions@...

Dear Sirs:

Recently there has been much posting by Immunocal salesmen on

the

cures for canceregroups list. One recent post included the following

paragraph:

(copy)

>Life Extension product specailist flatly stated their "Third

>generation Enhanced Protein Whey" listed under "Immune enhancers"

was

>far inferior to Immunocal. Also said Immunotec had a patent

on the

>chemical compound in Immunocal that made it such a great product.(end

of copy)

The above statement sounds suspiciously fictitious to me, especially

coming from a salesman. Since your product information states:

"The

Ultimate Whey Designer Protein is the only commercial whey protein

that

duplicates the special whey protein used in numerous published

research

studies." I would like further clarification from you.

My understanding

is that both products are simply undenatured whey protein. If

I am

wrong, would you please point out any differences to me. Thank

you in

advance for your attention to this question. Karjala

Subject: whey

Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:28:13 -0500

From: " " <mlefg@...>

<bobk20@...>

Dear Mr. Karjala,

Both products are excellent for boosting the immune system.Lef

advisor.

--

Bob Karjala

My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

mailto:bobk20@...

>>

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for cancer info or to unsubscribe

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

mailto:bobk20@...

[Guest guest]

Good for you I hope, and I sincerly mean this, I hope the LEF helps

you. One thing I do know for a fact is that the lactose must be gone as

well as the carbs and sugars. These things feed cancer. Tumors in

paticular like lactose surgars and will greedily feed from them. I know

for a fact that Immuncal has removed these things. Dr. who

everyone speaks so highly of does not think so highly of whey proteins

for this reason. Also when Dr. Bounous did his beginning research after

six years of getting results, his results quit, he spent another four

years testing every whey protein on the market. He did not get any

positive results from these other wheys as far as the building blocks

for glutathione. He also stated he believed them to be of some

nutritional value, but they did not have the precurssors for

glutathione. This is not what I would want to take a chance on. Are

they or arn't they there. I know folks who have gone through some

pretty heavy detoxification after making Immunocal there daily diet. I

hope the other can do the same for you. Please let us know how this

turns out for you. I have a lady who is an immunocare customer because

she suffers heartburn/reflux, she went to the doctor the other day and

he wanted to know what she is doing, finally her colesterol count is

way down, and nothing he was doing for her was helping. She is feeling

better but I know from my own experience that she is about half way

there for the heartburn/reflux to be gone. And on her way she has been

able to finally clean up her colesteral count. So good luck and I wish

you the best. Let us know how this helps you.

Debbie

robert karjala <bobk2-@...> wrote:

original article:cures for cancer/?start=4723

> Hi Tony,

> What you say is true and points out the problem of almost all sellers

of herbal

> and alternative therapies - they don't have the funds or incentive to

fund

> studies, and the big pharmaceutical companies are certainly not going

to cut their

> own throats by funding studies on anything they can't get a monopoly

on.

>

> I personally believe the Immunocal and Life Extension Foundation

products will

> have identical effects since each starts with the same raw materials

and each is

> purified by similar nondenaturing processes. You will probably be

interested to

> know that as a result of your many informative posts I have decided

to give the

> undenatured whey protein a try. I ordered a kilogram of the LEF

product (100x10

> gram servings) for $34.20 nonmember sale price. After ordering I

became aware of

> the bovine growth hormone controversy, and still have some second

thoughts that

> bGH may also be concentrated to unacceptably high levels, but I'm

going to give it

> a try for now. It's too bad I'm not still at my lab at Cedars-Sinai,

because I

> regularly measured growth hormone levels for clinical studies and

could easily

> have checked the levels in concentrated whey protein. In my current

job I develop

> monoclonal antibodies which are used to make quick, inexpensive tests

to detect

> antibiotic residues in meat and milk and home tests to detect

pesticide residues

> in water at levels of two or three parts per billion. Best wishes for

a happy

> holiday season for you and yours.

> Bob K.

>

> ParagonWS@... wrote:

>

> > Bob,

> > Not to beat a dead horse, but I would take the word of over 400

studies done

> > on Immunocal in peer review medical journals over none published

anywhere on L

> > ife Extensions product (not even in a non peer review medical

journal). You

> > are right, there is a chance that the Life Extension product is as

good as

> > Immunocal but where have they published their studies?? If your

salesman you

> > got the response from can answer that question, I would be

ecstatic. That is

> > my whole issue, facts, not hyperbole. I apologize that I didn't see

this

> > letter earlier or I would have responded then.... Have a great

holiday and

> > lots of health, happiness, and abundance in the new millenium!!

> >

> > Tony L. = )

> >

> > In a message dated 11/21/1999 2:28:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> > bobk20@... writes:

> >

> > << Hi Debbie and Tony,

> >

> > I was prepared to drop this subject, but when you attack me and put

> > words in my mouth I feel obligated to set the record straight.

> >

> > First Tony Luboff said:

> > " What I take issue with is the fact that you feel that a product

like

> > Immunocal has no value or lessened value because it is sold

through a

> > process of network distribution or " pyramid " as you call it. "

> >

> > Tony also said:

> > " Life Extension at least admits that their product is FAR INFERIOR

to

> > Immunocal..which is more than you seem to be able to do. "

> >

> > Now Debbie says:

> > " So when you tell folks don't take something this other thing is

better,

> >

> > please make sure you know what it is you are speaking about. "

> > and:

> > " You see you can do what ever you like, but for the rest of the

folks

> > how dare you decide what is good and what is bad. "

> >

> > You are putting words in my mouth that I have never said or

implied.

> > I have never in any post said anything bad about Immunocal nor

have I

> > implied that anything else was better. I have and I still do

commend you

> > for sharing the interesting info about glutathione and undenatured

whey

> > protein. What I have said is that Immunocal and Life Extension are

both

> > simply undenatured whey protein and are identical. Check your own

posts

> > to see who is badmouthing anybody's product. You have a right to

post,

> > but so do I, and this group deserves to have all the info. They are

> > adults and can decide for themselves to go with the proven name

brand or

> > with the generic version, but they have the right to know about the

> > options.

> >

> > If you stick with posting journal articles and research, you will

do

> > well, but you start to lose credibility when you attack your

> > competition. I enclose the following correspondence with Life

Extension

> > Foundation just in case your statements were true:

> >

> > Subject:

> > Ultimate Whey vs. Immunocal

> > Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:20:51 -0800

> > From: Karjala <bobk20@...>

> > generalquestions@...

> >

> > Dear Sirs:

> >

> > Recently there has been much posting by Immunocal salesmen on the

> > cures for canceregroups list. One recent post included the following

> > paragraph:

> >

> > (copy)

> > >Life Extension product specailist flatly stated their " Third

> > >generation Enhanced Protein Whey " listed under " Immune enhancers "

was

> > >far inferior to Immunocal. Also said Immunotec had a patent on

the

> > >chemical compound in Immunocal that made it such a great

product.(end

> > of copy)

> >

> > The above statement sounds suspiciously fictitious to me,

especially

> > coming from a salesman. Since your product information states: " The

> > Ultimate Whey Designer Protein is the only commercial whey protein

that

> > duplicates the special whey protein used in numerous published

research

> > studies. " I would like further clarification from you. My

understanding

> >

> > is that both products are simply undenatured whey protein. If I am

> > wrong, would you please point out any differences to me. Thank you

in

> > advance for your attention to this question. Karjala

> >

> > Subject: whey

> > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:28:13 -0500

> > From: " " <mlefg@...>

> > <bobk20@...>

> >

> > Dear Mr. Karjala,

> > Both products are excellent for boosting the immune system.Lef

advisor.

> >

> >

> > --

> > Bob Karjala

> > My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

> > http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

> > mailto:bobk20@...

> > >>

> >

> > -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

> > Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net for cancer info or to

unsubscribe

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/18/1999 1:24:00, bobk20@... writes:

<< In my current job I develop

monoclonal antibodies which are used to make quick, inexpensive tests to

detect

antibiotic residues in meat and milk and home tests to detect pesticide

residues

in water at levels of two or three parts per billion. >>

Could you explain exactly how the tests to detect pesticide residues in water

are administered and how much testing materials cost?

Thanks,

Joyce (H.)

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie,

I checked and LEF undenatured whey protein is less than 1%

carbohydrates(sugars) and is 99% undenatured protein so it should be

effective in boosting the immune system.

I agree that most or all other whey proteins are denatured and are probably

not as effective in raising glutathione levels as shown by Dr. Buonous work.

Fortunately, until or if my cancer returns(which seems to be a high

probability judging from other's experiences) I have no immediate health

problems and do what I do as a preventative measure only. My cholesterol is

high normal, but I will be curious to see if there are any changes. Thanks

for your good wishes and have a happy holiday season.

Bob K.

Debbie Hamonic wrote:

>

> Good for you I hope, and I sincerly mean this, I hope the LEF helps

> you. One thing I do know for a fact is that the lactose must be gone as

> well as the carbs and sugars. These things feed cancer. Tumors in

> paticular like lactose surgars and will greedily feed from them. I know

> for a fact that Immuncal has removed these things. Dr. who

> everyone speaks so highly of does not think so highly of whey proteins

> for this reason. Also when Dr. Bounous did his beginning research after

> six years of getting results, his results quit, he spent another four

> years testing every whey protein on the market. He did not get any

> positive results from these other wheys as far as the building blocks

> for glutathione. He also stated he believed them to be of some

> nutritional value, but they did not have the precurssors for

> glutathione. This is not what I would want to take a chance on. Are

> they or arn't they there. I know folks who have gone through some

> pretty heavy detoxification after making Immunocal there daily diet. I

> hope the other can do the same for you. Please let us know how this

> turns out for you. I have a lady who is an immunocare customer because

> she suffers heartburn/reflux, she went to the doctor the other day and

> he wanted to know what she is doing, finally her colesterol count is

> way down, and nothing he was doing for her was helping. She is feeling

> better but I know from my own experience that she is about half way

> there for the heartburn/reflux to be gone. And on her way she has been

> able to finally clean up her colesteral count. So good luck and I wish

> you the best. Let us know how this helps you.

> Debbie

>

--

Bob Karjala

My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

mailto:bobk20@...

[Guest guest]

Hi Joyce,

The pesticide test (for Atrazine and Simazine) is very simple and is

similar to some of the home pregnancy tests. You simply add a few drops

of water to a small plastic cassette, wait 10 minutes, and compare two

blue lines in the window. A complete all in one kit also tests for nitrate,

nitrite, chlorine, pH, hardness, and iron for $12.99. The pesticide only

tests are sold in boxes of 10 for $120.00, so the all in one kit is the

best value.

You can get more info at: http://www.silverlakeresearch.com

ACEBRIAN@... wrote:

In a message dated 12/18/1999 1:24:00, bobk20@...

writes:

<< In my current job I develop

monoclonal antibodies which are used to make quick, inexpensive tests

to

detect

antibiotic residues in meat and milk and home tests to detect pesticide

residues

in water at levels of two or three parts per billion. >>

Could you explain exactly how the tests to detect pesticide residues

in water

are administered and how much testing materials cost?

Thanks,

Joyce (H.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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for cancer info or to unsubscribe

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign

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1/332/5/_/378/_/945553708

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-- vote?listname=cures for cancer & m=1

--

Bob Karjala

My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

mailto:bobk20@...

[Guest guest]

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well. Quick question, what do you

mean by my cholesterol is high normal, I don't understand, but I also

do not have cholesterol problems. I have a freind who has taken two

packs of Immunocal a day for the last month and a half. Her reasons are

for gerd/reflux, she went to her doctors last Thursday for a checkup.

He wanted to know what she is doing because her cholesterol has

dropped, something he had been encourageing in the past with drugs. She

was very excited. Glutathione is known to rid the body of LDL which is

the bad cholesterol. That is one way of seeing if you get a responce to

what you are taking. If it is capable of raising glutathione then

glutathione is capable of lowering your LDL. As for her reflux she is

getting better. The cholesterol was a total surprise to her, and not

something she was expecting. The biggest change she has made is taking

Immunocal, 20gms per day.

Hope Santa is good to you

Debbie

robert karjala <bobk2-@...> wrote:

original article:cures for cancer/?start=4730

> Hi Debbie,

> I checked and LEF undenatured whey protein is less than 1%

> carbohydrates(sugars) and is 99% undenatured protein so it should be

> effective in boosting the immune system.

> I agree that most or all other whey proteins are denatured and are

probably

> not as effective in raising glutathione levels as shown by Dr.

Buonous work.

>

> Fortunately, until or if my cancer returns(which seems to be a high

> probability judging from other's experiences) I have no immediate

health

> problems and do what I do as a preventative measure only. My

cholesterol is

> high normal, but I will be curious to see if there are any changes.

Thanks

> for your good wishes and have a happy holiday season.

> Bob K.

>

> Debbie Hamonic wrote:

>

> >

> > Good for you I hope, and I sincerly mean this, I hope the LEF helps

> > you. One thing I do know for a fact is that the lactose must be

gone as

> > well as the carbs and sugars. These things feed cancer. Tumors in

> > paticular like lactose surgars and will greedily feed from them. I

know

> > for a fact that Immuncal has removed these things. Dr. who

> > everyone speaks so highly of does not think so highly of whey

proteins

> > for this reason. Also when Dr. Bounous did his beginning research

after

> > six years of getting results, his results quit, he spent another

four

> > years testing every whey protein on the market. He did not get any

> > positive results from these other wheys as far as the building

blocks

> > for glutathione. He also stated he believed them to be of some

> > nutritional value, but they did not have the precurssors for

> > glutathione. This is not what I would want to take a chance on. Are

> > they or arn't they there. I know folks who have gone through some

> > pretty heavy detoxification after making Immunocal there daily

diet. I

> > hope the other can do the same for you. Please let us know how this

> > turns out for you. I have a lady who is an immunocare customer

because

> > she suffers heartburn/reflux, she went to the doctor the other day

and

> > he wanted to know what she is doing, finally her colesterol count is

> > way down, and nothing he was doing for her was helping. She is

feeling

> > better but I know from my own experience that she is about half way

> > there for the heartburn/reflux to be gone. And on her way she has

been

> > able to finally clean up her colesteral count. So good luck and I

wish

> > you the best. Let us know how this helps you.

> > Debbie

> >

>

> --

> Bob Karjala

> My Cure from Stage IV Lung Cancer

> http://www.essiac-info.org/Bob.html

> mailto:bobk20@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi!

>

> I saw some testimonials on Immuplus (undenatured whey protein)

> and Immunocal. On the immuplus web site a lady named

> Jill Healy was ill for a very long time 9 years and

> tried everything.....it was determined that she had mercury

> toxicity and then started using Immuplus and claims that

> within a year she had her life back and completely recovered.

>

> Andy and everyone do you think this product could take the

> place of ala/dmsa protocols?

No.

>Can undenatured whey proteins

> actually detox heavy metals?

No.

>

> Any thoughts on this?

Incompetent doctors shouldn't make up stories about things like this

helping everyone.

Whey protein is NOT snake oil. It is extremely helpful for a certain

number of people, but not in any way curative.

It is extremely harmful for alot of OTHER people.

It is worth bothering to figure out if it is good or bad for you

rather than randomly taking it. You do this by having a plasma

cysteine test done by Great Smokies, and using whey protein only if

you are below the normal range. .. . . . . . . . . . .

>

[Guest guest]

Jan,

According to Quig at Doctors Data, Inc. undenatured whey will boast

the body's production of intracellular glutathione which will bind to

mercury and thereby help detoxify the body. The big issue with undenatured

whey is that it does contain casein. The manufacturer of a particular brand

we have used with our son thought that the when the whey was separated from

the curds, all the casein would go with the curds, but we had the product

tested and found that the whey had a significant amount of casein.

Nevertheless, we have tried it on our son and he has responded positively

when given it. He does have problems with other foods containing casein. I

discussed this with Bill Shaw and he did say that there are two kinds of

casein and one is more problematic than the other -- it depends upon the

genetics of the cows as to which type of casein is produced.

After our experience, other families tried undenatured whey with mixed

results. Some children exhibited rather quick and significant behavioral

downturns, so proceed with caution if you go this route.

FWIW

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whey protein doesn't just contain casein, whey

protein (or any dairy protein) by definition IS casein.

[Guest guest]

> According to Quig at Doctors Data, Inc. undenatured whey

will boast

> the body's production of intracellular glutathione

Correct.

> which will bind to

> mercury

incorrect.

> and thereby help detoxify the body.

Incorrect.

> The big issue with undenatured

> whey is that it does contain casein.

Incorrect. The big issue is that half of mercury toxic people already

have too high a level of thiols in them and feeding them whey is

making this even higher....

> The manufacturer of a particular brand

> we have used with our son thought that the when the whey was

separated from

> the curds, all the casein would go with the curds, but we had the

product

> tested and found that the whey had a significant amount of casein.

> Nevertheless, we have tried it on our son and he has responded

positively

> when given it. He does have problems with other foods containing

casein. I

> discussed this with Bill Shaw and he did say that there are two

kinds of

> casein and one is more problematic than the other -- it depends upon

the

> genetics of the cows as to which type of casein is produced.

>

> After our experience, other families tried undenatured whey with

mixed

> results. Some children exhibited rather quick and significant

behavioral

> downturns, so proceed with caution if you go this route.

Yes, and if you check it is the ones with high plasma cysteine who get

worse and the ones with low plasma cysteine who get better. . .. . .

>

> FW