Re: Re: discouraged and whining

[Guest guest]

,

That is why I have added Isocort finally. I was holding off as I was concerned

about adding too many things at once without knowing what is working and what is

not. The other thought was that I just wasn't on enough Armour.

Deborah

Re: discouraged and whining

> Thanks Patti Sue. I never thought it too fast either if anything

too slow. But at least steady. Deborah

when you raise your Armour dose and it doesn't have any affect, or

the affect(tired mostly) is worse on higher doses, my doctor says

always suspect adrenal fatigue.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

..... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

..... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is used to

the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for symptoms of. Am I

remembering wrong isn't she switching from Synthroid to Armour? If not then I

am wrong.

From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing 60 each

week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

Patti

discouraged and whining

>

>

> Hi all, I just need to vent, I think. I am so discouraged

that I am

> not feeling better and just feeling stuck. I ahve been on

Armour for

> 6 wks now, feeling no difference at this point. I am on 1

1/4 grains

> Armour right now. I know that the dosage needs to be

increased, but

> I just don't have the motivation to do anything about it. I

am

> suppose to go back to the doc on Feb 4 and I expect that my

meds will

> be increased at that point, but in the meantime I just feel

like

> crap. I want to call the doc and say....I need to come now,

I need

> an increase now, but again, just don't have the motivation.

Maybe it

> is because I am afraid he will just say no. I know many

people here

> have had years upon years of dealing with this...getting meds

> right...I don't know, just feeling bummed and nowhere to turn

> really. Thanks for listening......Kat

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------

>

[Guest guest]

I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is used to

the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for symptoms of. Am I

remembering wrong isn't she switching from Synthroid to Armour? If not then I

am wrong.

From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing 60 each

week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

Patti

discouraged and whining

>

>

> Hi all, I just need to vent, I think. I am so discouraged

that I am

> not feeling better and just feeling stuck. I ahve been on

Armour for

> 6 wks now, feeling no difference at this point. I am on 1

1/4 grains

> Armour right now. I know that the dosage needs to be

increased, but

> I just don't have the motivation to do anything about it. I

am

> suppose to go back to the doc on Feb 4 and I expect that my

meds will

> be increased at that point, but in the meantime I just feel

like

> crap. I want to call the doc and say....I need to come now,

I need

> an increase now, but again, just don't have the motivation.

Maybe it

> is because I am afraid he will just say no. I know many

people here

> have had years upon years of dealing with this...getting meds

> right...I don't know, just feeling bummed and nowhere to turn

> really. Thanks for listening......Kat

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------

>

[Guest guest]

I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is used to

the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for symptoms of. Am I

remembering wrong isn't she switching from Synthroid to Armour? If not then I

am wrong.

From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing 60 each

week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

Patti

discouraged and whining

>

>

> Hi all, I just need to vent, I think. I am so discouraged

that I am

> not feeling better and just feeling stuck. I ahve been on

Armour for

> 6 wks now, feeling no difference at this point. I am on 1

1/4 grains

> Armour right now. I know that the dosage needs to be

increased, but

> I just don't have the motivation to do anything about it. I

am

> suppose to go back to the doc on Feb 4 and I expect that my

meds will

> be increased at that point, but in the meantime I just feel

like

> crap. I want to call the doc and say....I need to come now,

I need

> an increase now, but again, just don't have the motivation.

Maybe it

> is because I am afraid he will just say no. I know many

people here

> have had years upon years of dealing with this...getting meds

> right...I don't know, just feeling bummed and nowhere to turn

> really. Thanks for listening......Kat

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------

>

[Guest guest]

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

.... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

.... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

.... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

THere is a lot of confusion here, and I would like to clarify something. It

isn't the T4 that sends you into hyper. IT is the T3. The shakey hands, heart

palps, nervousness..that is all caused by the T3. Those are the symptoms that a

patient watches for when increasing the T3/T4 meds. A T3 rush is common and if

only lasting a few minutes is ok, when lasting longer it isn't good and the

patient should lower the dose the next dosing, if take any at all for that

period. Yes the T4 takes longer to get into the system, yet doesn't have the

same effect as T3. Thats why a person will know almost immediately if they have

too much Armour for that dose because it is the T3 that causes the hyper

symptoms.

Patti

PS..Also some are sensitive more than others...and each person is an

individual...and you don't know until you try for yourself. So being on the

safe side go slowly..

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

THere is a lot of confusion here, and I would like to clarify something. It

isn't the T4 that sends you into hyper. IT is the T3. The shakey hands, heart

palps, nervousness..that is all caused by the T3. Those are the symptoms that a

patient watches for when increasing the T3/T4 meds. A T3 rush is common and if

only lasting a few minutes is ok, when lasting longer it isn't good and the

patient should lower the dose the next dosing, if take any at all for that

period. Yes the T4 takes longer to get into the system, yet doesn't have the

same effect as T3. Thats why a person will know almost immediately if they have

too much Armour for that dose because it is the T3 that causes the hyper

symptoms.

Patti

PS..Also some are sensitive more than others...and each person is an

individual...and you don't know until you try for yourself. So being on the

safe side go slowly..

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

THere is a lot of confusion here, and I would like to clarify something. It

isn't the T4 that sends you into hyper. IT is the T3. The shakey hands, heart

palps, nervousness..that is all caused by the T3. Those are the symptoms that a

patient watches for when increasing the T3/T4 meds. A T3 rush is common and if

only lasting a few minutes is ok, when lasting longer it isn't good and the

patient should lower the dose the next dosing, if take any at all for that

period. Yes the T4 takes longer to get into the system, yet doesn't have the

same effect as T3. Thats why a person will know almost immediately if they have

too much Armour for that dose because it is the T3 that causes the hyper

symptoms.

Patti

PS..Also some are sensitive more than others...and each person is an

individual...and you don't know until you try for yourself. So being on the

safe side go slowly..

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

As one who was overmedicated too soon, I can tell you the fatigue was the first

symptom. It wasn't till the end that I knew I was hyper. Feeling hyper was a lot

scarier than being hypo as much as I hate being hypo.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

As one who was overmedicated too soon, I can tell you the fatigue was the first

symptom. It wasn't till the end that I knew I was hyper. Feeling hyper was a lot

scarier than being hypo as much as I hate being hypo.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

As one who was overmedicated too soon, I can tell you the fatigue was the first

symptom. It wasn't till the end that I knew I was hyper. Feeling hyper was a lot

scarier than being hypo as much as I hate being hypo.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

I was made hyper on 100% t4.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

I was made hyper on 100% t4.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

I was made hyper on 100% t4.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

Thats not good. Sorry you had to go through that. But when it comes down to

it, the main symptoms you look for when going on a T3 med is shakey hands,

nervousness, heart palps, anxiety and panic attacks. That is all I am trying to

say. She is going on a T3 drug, these are the normal symptoms to watch for. As

for you going hyper on 100% T4, your body was able to convert easily obviously.

Patti

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

Thats not good. Sorry you had to go through that. But when it comes down to

it, the main symptoms you look for when going on a T3 med is shakey hands,

nervousness, heart palps, anxiety and panic attacks. That is all I am trying to

say. She is going on a T3 drug, these are the normal symptoms to watch for. As

for you going hyper on 100% T4, your body was able to convert easily obviously.

Patti

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

Thats not good. Sorry you had to go through that. But when it comes down to

it, the main symptoms you look for when going on a T3 med is shakey hands,

nervousness, heart palps, anxiety and panic attacks. That is all I am trying to

say. She is going on a T3 drug, these are the normal symptoms to watch for. As

for you going hyper on 100% T4, your body was able to convert easily obviously.

Patti

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks... so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

My body does not convert at all which is why I am now on Armour and the free t3

stays at the bottom. My free t3 then was flagged as low. I no longer have the

severe fatigue when I increase slowly even with the low results. I have lots of

room to increase, but for once in over a year, I can think and function.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast

and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of

excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer

to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks...

so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't

push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling

that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a

smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

My body does not convert at all which is why I am now on Armour and the free t3

stays at the bottom. My free t3 then was flagged as low. I no longer have the

severe fatigue when I increase slowly even with the low results. I have lots of

room to increase, but for once in over a year, I can think and function.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast

and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of

excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer

to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks...

so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't

push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling

that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a

smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

My body does not convert at all which is why I am now on Armour and the free t3

stays at the bottom. My free t3 then was flagged as low. I no longer have the

severe fatigue when I increase slowly even with the low results. I have lots of

room to increase, but for once in over a year, I can think and function.

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

That was me.... I made an increase from 2 1/2 grain to 3... I'd been on

the 2 1/2 for about 10 weeks and decided to add another quarter tablet

(1/2 grain) I felt a bit hyper in just a few days.. but pushed on hoping

that I was just reacting to an increase and it wasn't too much for me..

but I ended up hyper.. shaking, insomnia, horrible hunger (the beast was

back - I went through hyper storm, that's why I had RAI, so the beast

and

I had met before).... I cut back to 1 grain for several days.. but then

started going hypo.. and then had to do some adjusting.. I'm okay now..

but it's been a pretty crappy month.

I'm very sensitive to changes.. so things affect me sooner. I consider

that a good thing.. for others, they can be on too high a dose for weeks

and not experience symptoms until they have a much higher level of

excess

in their system then I did... in that case it takes a whole lot longer

to

purge it out.. and, trust me... that hyper - hypo swing.. then getting

back up to the right dose really does a number on your head and your

body...

Over a two week period I went from resting heart rates of 72 to 90 to

60.. that is way too much stress on the body... I'm about 69 right now,

I just stopped and checked... my body is slowing moving back up... it's

should settle around 72 again.

Three weeks to get me back to normal and on my 2 1/2 grain... but I'm

feeling great again.

I'm going to stay at 2 1/2 grain for another 6 or 8 weeks.. then I will

trying adding that extra 1/2 grain every third day, instead of every

day... and see if I can tolerate that increase... I'm wondering if I

might need a bit more... but at this stage, between the weight loss and

being close to optimal that a 1/2 grain jump at one time might have been

too much (I have 2 grain tabs.. can't chop them any smaller than

quarters).

You just have to be very careful with increases and keep in mind that

what you take today you may not feel for as long as 4, 6 or 8 weeks...

so

take them small... be aware of how your body is reacting.. and don't

push

it.. if you see signs of hyper... back off a bit... settle down and try

again. I just learned AGAIN that to push with this stuff is NOT wise....

On that same note... if you feel that you need more.. if the hypo

symptoms are not subsiding.. tweak up a bit.. but just a bit and then

wait.. PLEASE don't be dumb, like me, thinking that you know enough to

push... doesn't matter how much you know... you have to listen to what

your body says about more, less, or stay the same.... Labs are only a

guideline.... the final judge is your body and how it feels.

Sorry for being preachy...... I just don't want someone to have to go

through what I have these last weeks.. it REALLY sucks to be feeling

that

lousy just because I was a smart a***.

.... oh gosh... did I just say that doc was right when he call me a

smart

a**??

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:26:52 -0000 " lestatl382 "

writes:

> The key is that you wont feel the affect of the medication you take

> today for 7 - 10 days. It takes that long for the T4 to build up in

> your system. Yes T3 is short acting but it's a combination of the 2

> medications. If you are waiting just 1 week to increase your

> medication you aren't giving yourself enough time to feel the

> effects of the dose you were on.

> I say take it slow. I think it was Janie or Topper who told the

> story

> of someone on another list that kept incresing his medication and he

> got to the point where he had a hyper storm and had to stop all his

> medication to get it out of his system than start again and

> increasing his medication slowly.

> Louise

[Guest guest]

T4 is the storage hormone... it is converted by the body into T3... a T3

molecule is (Janie jump in here) 7 times stronger??? than a T4..... so as

the T4 builds in your system, you aren't going to feel it right away...

but as the body starts converting the excess T4 into the usable T3.. that

is when the over dose is realized and the hyper symptoms begin.

So... you are exactly right, if the T3 in the Armour you are taking is

too high, you will feel it rather quickly, for some, with the first

dose...but... the T4 is built up in the body tissues and your system and

your body starts converting to T3... now your body is reacting to not

just the T3 that you have taken in your Armour dose.. but also to what

your body has made by converting the storage T4 hormone into the usable

T3 hormone.

If you have been without adequate hormone for a length of time.. the

storage T4 in your system can be depleted... Follow me on this,

please.... so your reserves are on empty and you take your Armour... you

feel it's not enough and keep taking more and more to get to the level of

T3 that you need to feel good..... ooooppss while you are building up the

T3 doses to the point of feeling good.. that T4 is replenishing the

reserves that were depleted.... when it gets built up enough again for

the body to have enough there to convert WHAM now you are dealing with

the T3 you are dosing with (in the Armour) PLUS all the T3 your body is

now producing.

Now you are experiencing hyper symptoms... depending on how much those T4

reserves built up before the conversion kicked your T3 levels too high..

it can take a few days, to a few weeks, to a few months to use up that

excess T4.

That's what makes it so tricky, and important, that you don't increase

too much too quickly... if that T4 builds up and the body has more and

more to convert.. that is the excess T3 that triggers the hyper state.

There are even more variables... A person that is a poor converter can

tolerate a much higher level of T4 and needs it.. because they don't

convert well, I'm one of those.... Now.. add selenium and vitamin C to

the mix and your body becomes a better converter.... Now, realize that

your adrenals are fatigued and start supplementing them and the

conversion rate is even more efficient along with the fact that the body,

now having the adrenal support that it needs is better able to use the T3

hormone as well..

Or.... your feeling better and your adrenals, pooped to begin with, can't

handle your body having the thyroid hormone levels up and becomes even

more fatigued and starts going on vacation... now even though your

thyroid levels were up and your were starting to feel pretty good.... you

now need to help your adrenals to keep up with the new thyroid level.

It can actually be a pretty tricky balancing act.. but once you find the

balance that is right for you... you get to have a life again.

I've been juggling this for 18 months now... first building up the

thyroid meds... 1/4 tab at a time... after 5 months adding adrenal, too

much, and then backing off (took a month to find out that 1/2 tab of

adrenal glandular was too much for me to start with at the time) Backing

of adrenal for a month then starting again at 1/4 tab... waiting a month

and then starting with 6 1/4 mg of DHEA.... some of my thyroid and

adrenal increases were 8 and 12 weeks apart.. and never at the same

time.. just tweaking them each up, one at a time, alternating... until I

see to have found what I need...

2 1/2 grain Thyroid (split to 5 doses per day)

80 mg Adrenal Glandular (split to 4 doses per day)

12.5 mg of DHEA (split to 2 doses per day)

300 mcg of Selenium (split to 3 doses per day)

plus the multi-vitamins (split to 8 times per day), extra vitamin C and

E, and iron (all taken in 1 dose per day)... all to get my body to where

it's able to do stuff that it needs to do again.

I'm still tweaking and testing... wondering if I can get it even better.

I'm sleeping through the night (after 20 years of insomnia) I am awake

and alert from the time I get up until the time I go to sleep (even if

the household is active and I get to bed late and get woke early, I still

feel great the next day. When I go to the bathroom every thing works

right! (after years of painful constipation alternating with explosive

diarrhea). The list goes on... I can wash dishes and cook at the stove

without having to sit down.. I can go up and down the stairs without

feeling like fainting. My chronic headaches, rib pain, foot pain, back

aches, muscle cramps are gone (unless I over exert, a good nights rest

and I'm doing pretty good the next day). Last winter, sweeping the snow

off the deck was done in shifts and took all day to do.... with a lot of

pain.. This year.. I can do it in 20 minutes, without sitting down and

then go in and play in the kitchen... I can knead bread standing without

arms that hurt for three days after. I can peel apples and potatoes

without my hands cramping into claws!

With the addition, in early October, of the mini meals... I'm also now

losing weight...... So... I'm getting really close to figuring out my

personal body puzzle.

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:18:48 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> THere is a lot of confusion here, and I would like to clarify

> something. It isn't the T4 that sends you into hyper. IT is the

> T3. The shakey hands, heart palps, nervousness..that is all caused

> by the T3. Those are the symptoms that a patient watches for when

> increasing the T3/T4 meds. A T3 rush is common and if only lasting

> a few minutes is ok, when lasting longer it isn't good and the

> patient should lower the dose the next dosing, if take any at all

> for that period. Yes the T4 takes longer to get into the system,

> yet doesn't have the same effect as T3. Thats why a person will

> know almost immediately if they have too much Armour for that dose

> because it is the T3 that causes the hyper symptoms.

> Patti

> PS..Also some are sensitive more than others...and each person is an

> individual...and you don't know until you try for yourself. So

> being on the safe side go slowly..