Re: Re: discouraged and whining

[Guest guest]

I have not been tested for hashi's, or any pituitary or parathyroid involvement.

Have had the saliva test for cortisol and DHEA levels. No results yet. How do

they test or pituitry or parathyroid involvement?

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

Ah... but why are you hypo? Are you resistant to the hormones? Do you

have a really bad conversion? Do you eat foods that bind the hormones? It

would be interesting to hear.

For me, I was hyper due to a genetic TSH receptor malfunction. Hypo due

to an over dose of RAI. Then stayed hypo due to undermedication on

synthetics (based on weight med ratios I was some 30% underdosed), then

had no access to meds, then went on naturals (self medicating) and

gradually worked up... then took too much and went hyper..... Now.. back

to what is normal, for now....

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:08:25 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> I think a distinction has to be made as to whether you have ever been

> hyper, had hashi's or have no thyroid and if you are otherwise

> healthy, wothout pituitary or parathyroid involvement...we're all

> individuals....I think nothing short of a stick of dynamite could

> make me hyper...but I am simply hypothyroid, period..and pretty

> healthy otherwise...when my son began to up his dose on Armour, he

> did not go hyper, but became more exhausted...this is when the

> doctor

> tested his adrenals. There are so many variables.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I have not been tested for hashi's, or any pituitary or parathyroid involvement.

Have had the saliva test for cortisol and DHEA levels. No results yet. How do

they test or pituitry or parathyroid involvement?

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

Ah... but why are you hypo? Are you resistant to the hormones? Do you

have a really bad conversion? Do you eat foods that bind the hormones? It

would be interesting to hear.

For me, I was hyper due to a genetic TSH receptor malfunction. Hypo due

to an over dose of RAI. Then stayed hypo due to undermedication on

synthetics (based on weight med ratios I was some 30% underdosed), then

had no access to meds, then went on naturals (self medicating) and

gradually worked up... then took too much and went hyper..... Now.. back

to what is normal, for now....

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:08:25 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> I think a distinction has to be made as to whether you have ever been

> hyper, had hashi's or have no thyroid and if you are otherwise

> healthy, wothout pituitary or parathyroid involvement...we're all

> individuals....I think nothing short of a stick of dynamite could

> make me hyper...but I am simply hypothyroid, period..and pretty

> healthy otherwise...when my son began to up his dose on Armour, he

> did not go hyper, but became more exhausted...this is when the

> doctor

> tested his adrenals. There are so many variables.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I have not been tested for hashi's, or any pituitary or parathyroid involvement.

Have had the saliva test for cortisol and DHEA levels. No results yet. How do

they test or pituitry or parathyroid involvement?

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

Ah... but why are you hypo? Are you resistant to the hormones? Do you

have a really bad conversion? Do you eat foods that bind the hormones? It

would be interesting to hear.

For me, I was hyper due to a genetic TSH receptor malfunction. Hypo due

to an over dose of RAI. Then stayed hypo due to undermedication on

synthetics (based on weight med ratios I was some 30% underdosed), then

had no access to meds, then went on naturals (self medicating) and

gradually worked up... then took too much and went hyper..... Now.. back

to what is normal, for now....

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:08:25 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> I think a distinction has to be made as to whether you have ever been

> hyper, had hashi's or have no thyroid and if you are otherwise

> healthy, wothout pituitary or parathyroid involvement...we're all

> individuals....I think nothing short of a stick of dynamite could

> make me hyper...but I am simply hypothyroid, period..and pretty

> healthy otherwise...when my son began to up his dose on Armour, he

> did not go hyper, but became more exhausted...this is when the

> doctor

> tested his adrenals. There are so many variables.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

, actually.... But if you're not getting it at 250 per day.. maybe

you should up it.... 400 is the suggested top end.

I'm at about 400 now...

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:37:20 -0800 " JAMY "

writes:

> Do you means me? I take about 250 a day of it. They have no idea why

> the ratio isn't going up.

[Guest guest]

, actually.... But if you're not getting it at 250 per day.. maybe

you should up it.... 400 is the suggested top end.

I'm at about 400 now...

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:37:20 -0800 " JAMY "

writes:

> Do you means me? I take about 250 a day of it. They have no idea why

> the ratio isn't going up.

[Guest guest]

Patti,

I am not switching from Synthroid to Armour. My husband and I have been having

hypo symptoms for about a year - most of them that ya'll have ever listed. We

found a doc who was willing to put us on Armour about 10 weeks ago. Started

with 30 mg increasing 30 mg every two weeks per Dr. Durrant-Peatfield. Neither

of us have ever been hyper, but have not been tested for hashi's or pituitary or

parathyroid involvement. Have had saliva testing done for cortisol and DHEA - no

results yet.

From reading all your posts we have probably been hypo for sometime but it

finally got bad enough to start causing us real trouble. Think about two hypo's

living in the same house - the angry outbursts can be awesome at times. We

thought we were having marital difficulties til I started reading about hypo and

realized what was wrong with us.

We both come from abusive homes. So whatever that means for our endocrine

system - resistant to thyroid, receptors, not good converters, etc. We just are

too new to all this to know and it is all I can do everyday to read the posts

and make sense out of them and remember what I have read.

I am just so thankful for the support and knowledge I get from this group. I

have to admit that it seems overwhelming to think about having to be always

tweeking ones meds, always attentive to our bodies for trouble, etc. Maybe it

will come easier as I gain more knowledge and feel better.

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

Patti,

I am not switching from Synthroid to Armour. My husband and I have been having

hypo symptoms for about a year - most of them that ya'll have ever listed. We

found a doc who was willing to put us on Armour about 10 weeks ago. Started

with 30 mg increasing 30 mg every two weeks per Dr. Durrant-Peatfield. Neither

of us have ever been hyper, but have not been tested for hashi's or pituitary or

parathyroid involvement. Have had saliva testing done for cortisol and DHEA - no

results yet.

From reading all your posts we have probably been hypo for sometime but it

finally got bad enough to start causing us real trouble. Think about two hypo's

living in the same house - the angry outbursts can be awesome at times. We

thought we were having marital difficulties til I started reading about hypo and

realized what was wrong with us.

We both come from abusive homes. So whatever that means for our endocrine

system - resistant to thyroid, receptors, not good converters, etc. We just are

too new to all this to know and it is all I can do everyday to read the posts

and make sense out of them and remember what I have read.

I am just so thankful for the support and knowledge I get from this group. I

have to admit that it seems overwhelming to think about having to be always

tweeking ones meds, always attentive to our bodies for trouble, etc. Maybe it

will come easier as I gain more knowledge and feel better.

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

So that's 200 once per day..? For shits and giggles... see what happens

if you split the tabs and dose with breakfast, dinner and again at bed

time..... 300 per day

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:39:59 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> I take 200 mg. selenium every dinner time.

[Guest guest]

So that's 200 once per day..? For shits and giggles... see what happens

if you split the tabs and dose with breakfast, dinner and again at bed

time..... 300 per day

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:39:59 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> I take 200 mg. selenium every dinner time.

[Guest guest]

Actually no.... 2 hours, once every 23 days... I need to make some more 4

day boxes and get it to once a month... It's actually not bad.. just set

up my stuff in front of the TV and watch a movie while I do it... then

the rest of the time I just have to sort the pills into the daily

boxes... about 10 minutes every 5th day for the boxes that I have now. So

if it were averaged out, 7 minutes a day.. but if I did it everyday... it

would actually take longer.. pulling out the bottles and such all the

time.

I just count out the tabs that go for the number of days for that item...

chop chop... sort them into the divided containers and fly through 11

different meds and supps! heheheheeh

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:48:11 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> My goodness! You must spend your entire day splitting this and

> splitting that! Very painstaking...and I am glad you have found a

> way to make yourself feel well and for it all to work for you.

> That's takes real stick-to-it-tiveness!!

[Guest guest]

Actually no.... 2 hours, once every 23 days... I need to make some more 4

day boxes and get it to once a month... It's actually not bad.. just set

up my stuff in front of the TV and watch a movie while I do it... then

the rest of the time I just have to sort the pills into the daily

boxes... about 10 minutes every 5th day for the boxes that I have now. So

if it were averaged out, 7 minutes a day.. but if I did it everyday... it

would actually take longer.. pulling out the bottles and such all the

time.

I just count out the tabs that go for the number of days for that item...

chop chop... sort them into the divided containers and fly through 11

different meds and supps! heheheheeh

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:48:11 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> My goodness! You must spend your entire day splitting this and

> splitting that! Very painstaking...and I am glad you have found a

> way to make yourself feel well and for it all to work for you.

> That's takes real stick-to-it-tiveness!!

[Guest guest]

So when he tested you guys, what were your levels? TSH, free t3 and 4, CBC, etc.

did he say why you were hypo?

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

So when he tested you guys, what were your levels? TSH, free t3 and 4, CBC, etc.

did he say why you were hypo?

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

It gets easier as the brain fog starts to lift and you start to feel

better...

Just remember.. many of us have been there... ask away... we forget

too!!! heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:39:55 -0500 " son "

writes:

> Patti,

>

> I am not switching from Synthroid to Armour. My husband and I have

> been having hypo symptoms for about a year - most of them that ya'll

> have ever listed. We found a doc who was willing to put us on

> Armour about 10 weeks ago. Started with 30 mg increasing 30 mg

> every two weeks per Dr. Durrant-Peatfield. Neither of us have ever

> been hyper, but have not been tested for hashi's or pituitary or

> parathyroid involvement. Have had saliva testing done for cortisol

> and DHEA - no results yet.

>

> From reading all your posts we have probably been hypo for sometime

> but it finally got bad enough to start causing us real trouble.

> Think about two hypo's living in the same house - the angry

> outbursts can be awesome at times. We thought we were having

> marital difficulties til I started reading about hypo and realized

> what was wrong with us.

>

> We both come from abusive homes. So whatever that means for our

> endocrine system - resistant to thyroid, receptors, not good

> converters, etc. We just are too new to all this to know and it is

> all I can do everyday to read the posts and make sense out of them

> and remember what I have read.

>

> I am just so thankful for the support and knowledge I get from this

> group. I have to admit that it seems overwhelming to think about

> having to be always tweeking ones meds, always attentive to our

> bodies for trouble, etc. Maybe it will come easier as I gain more

> knowledge and feel better.

>

> Deborah

[Guest guest]

It gets easier as the brain fog starts to lift and you start to feel

better...

Just remember.. many of us have been there... ask away... we forget

too!!! heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:39:55 -0500 " son "

writes:

> Patti,

>

> I am not switching from Synthroid to Armour. My husband and I have

> been having hypo symptoms for about a year - most of them that ya'll

> have ever listed. We found a doc who was willing to put us on

> Armour about 10 weeks ago. Started with 30 mg increasing 30 mg

> every two weeks per Dr. Durrant-Peatfield. Neither of us have ever

> been hyper, but have not been tested for hashi's or pituitary or

> parathyroid involvement. Have had saliva testing done for cortisol

> and DHEA - no results yet.

>

> From reading all your posts we have probably been hypo for sometime

> but it finally got bad enough to start causing us real trouble.

> Think about two hypo's living in the same house - the angry

> outbursts can be awesome at times. We thought we were having

> marital difficulties til I started reading about hypo and realized

> what was wrong with us.

>

> We both come from abusive homes. So whatever that means for our

> endocrine system - resistant to thyroid, receptors, not good

> converters, etc. We just are too new to all this to know and it is

> all I can do everyday to read the posts and make sense out of them

> and remember what I have read.

>

> I am just so thankful for the support and knowledge I get from this

> group. I have to admit that it seems overwhelming to think about

> having to be always tweeking ones meds, always attentive to our

> bodies for trouble, etc. Maybe it will come easier as I gain more

> knowledge and feel better.

>

> Deborah

[Guest guest]

Thanks Topper

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It gets easier as the brain fog starts to lift and you start to feel

better...

Just remember.. many of us have been there... ask away... we forget

too!!! heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:39:55 -0500 " son "

writes:

> Patti,

>

> I am not switching from Synthroid to Armour. My husband and I have

> been having hypo symptoms for about a year - most of them that ya'll

> have ever listed. We found a doc who was willing to put us on

> Armour about 10 weeks ago. Started with 30 mg increasing 30 mg

> every two weeks per Dr. Durrant-Peatfield. Neither of us have ever

> been hyper, but have not been tested for hashi's or pituitary or

> parathyroid involvement. Have had saliva testing done for cortisol

> and DHEA - no results yet.

>

> From reading all your posts we have probably been hypo for sometime

> but it finally got bad enough to start causing us real trouble.

> Think about two hypo's living in the same house - the angry

> outbursts can be awesome at times. We thought we were having

> marital difficulties til I started reading about hypo and realized

> what was wrong with us.

>

> We both come from abusive homes. So whatever that means for our

> endocrine system - resistant to thyroid, receptors, not good

> converters, etc. We just are too new to all this to know and it is

> all I can do everyday to read the posts and make sense out of them

> and remember what I have read.

>

> I am just so thankful for the support and knowledge I get from this

> group. I have to admit that it seems overwhelming to think about

> having to be always tweeking ones meds, always attentive to our

> bodies for trouble, etc. Maybe it will come easier as I gain more

> knowledge and feel better.

>

> Deborah

[Guest guest]

Thanks Topper

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It gets easier as the brain fog starts to lift and you start to feel

better...

Just remember.. many of us have been there... ask away... we forget

too!!! heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:39:55 -0500 " son "

writes:

> Patti,

>

> I am not switching from Synthroid to Armour. My husband and I have

> been having hypo symptoms for about a year - most of them that ya'll

> have ever listed. We found a doc who was willing to put us on

> Armour about 10 weeks ago. Started with 30 mg increasing 30 mg

> every two weeks per Dr. Durrant-Peatfield. Neither of us have ever

> been hyper, but have not been tested for hashi's or pituitary or

> parathyroid involvement. Have had saliva testing done for cortisol

> and DHEA - no results yet.

>

> From reading all your posts we have probably been hypo for sometime

> but it finally got bad enough to start causing us real trouble.

> Think about two hypo's living in the same house - the angry

> outbursts can be awesome at times. We thought we were having

> marital difficulties til I started reading about hypo and realized

> what was wrong with us.

>

> We both come from abusive homes. So whatever that means for our

> endocrine system - resistant to thyroid, receptors, not good

> converters, etc. We just are too new to all this to know and it is

> all I can do everyday to read the posts and make sense out of them

> and remember what I have read.

>

> I am just so thankful for the support and knowledge I get from this

> group. I have to admit that it seems overwhelming to think about

> having to be always tweeking ones meds, always attentive to our

> bodies for trouble, etc. Maybe it will come easier as I gain more

> knowledge and feel better.

>

> Deborah

[Guest guest]

Patti,

I basically diagnosed us after reading about hypo symptoms and us having most of

them. The biggest determiner was low body temp - 96 degree range. Still there.

My Free T4 1.07, range .71 - 1.85.

My Free T3 334, range 230 - 420.

My TSH 2.5.

My husband's TSH was 3.5. Can't find his other test results but they were

within these limits as the same lab did his and did mine. I had some blood work

done a year ago and one of the tests was a reverse T3, it is an experimental

test. The range on it was 90-350 and my score was 219. Not sure what to make

of it. The test is not FDA approved, if that means anything to anyone, not me.

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

Patti,

I basically diagnosed us after reading about hypo symptoms and us having most of

them. The biggest determiner was low body temp - 96 degree range. Still there.

My Free T4 1.07, range .71 - 1.85.

My Free T3 334, range 230 - 420.

My TSH 2.5.

My husband's TSH was 3.5. Can't find his other test results but they were

within these limits as the same lab did his and did mine. I had some blood work

done a year ago and one of the tests was a reverse T3, it is an experimental

test. The range on it was 90-350 and my score was 219. Not sure what to make

of it. The test is not FDA approved, if that means anything to anyone, not me.

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why, I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

Topper,

I don't mind your soap box - I'm learning a great deal! Your right, whatever it

takes to get well is worth it.

I do agree the nutrition thing has a good deal to do with it. I think I

staved off hypo for a good number of years after I got interested in nutrition

back in 1972. I have been trying to eat better and have taken vitamins ever

since. I think it is the only thing that has kept me going all these years but

I think the stress of the last three years finally pushed me over the edge. In

2001 a friend of 20 years was killed in a hang gliding accident, a friend was

diagnosed with breast cancer in 2002, and my youngest brother died in 2003 from

lung cancer then we moved across the country in 2003.

When I ended up on the couch several months after my brother died shaking with

chills on a heating pad and several blankets with a temp. of 95.6 I knew

something was wrong and it wasn't just depression over his death. Sometimes I

think I have misdiagnosed myself who knows.

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

I agree with the malnutrition part.. that is why I got goofy and started

splitting my vitamins... I now chop the capsules into 8 bits... I take

one with each of my mini-meals and one at bedtime.. if I didn't eat 7

mini-meals that day I take the leftovers at night....

My thought was that in this way I'm getting a broad range of nutrients

with everything I eat, no matter what it is... If my body is having

trouble processing something and the left over gets peed out (our bodies

flush the blood roughly every 30 minutes or less....) then all the

vitamins and minerals that I couldn't process just went to go sit in my

bladder.... this way.. I have far much less waste.. I get little bits of

it every two to three hours, whenever I eat....

It's hard to get used to the multi dosing.. I'm literally taking

something every hour of the day.. anywhere from a quarter tab of thyroid

or adrenal to the little pile I take at night that has calcium and

vitamin E and DHEA and multi-vitamin and selenium and iron.... but

darn... I just feel good.. No pain, and not on pain meds. Being able to

do things, simple things like wash dishes or cook a scrambled egg without

having to sit down because of the pain to my back, legs, knees, feet and

arms...

I've gotten used to it now... If I'm not in my office I have a home made

16 compartment pill box that fits in my shirt pocket... I also have a PDA

with an hourly chime.... when it chimes, I take whatever is in the next

cup in my pill box, or its time for a meal and a vitamin chip..... I

consider every time I answer that hourly chime to be another step toward

having a normal life... It's not a chore... in the frame of mind that

I've set for myself.. it's a positive step to feel good versus taking

pain meds or sleeping for the day to make up for being less attentive to

my health.... 10 tiny steps forward with never a step back gets you a lot

farther today then 3 big steps forward and 2 bigger steps back!

I may have to do this for the rest of my life... if so I'll deal with

it.. but there is a little part in the back of my brain that likes to

remind me that it took years to get this run down, and heavy and

miserable.. it could take years to recover from it... and maybe, just

maybe... I'll get to the point where I won't have to make this such a

constant attention thing..... For now... It's gorgeous and sunny out. My

pants fell off when I got up because I forgot the clip the suspender

clips.... I'm not at all hungry even though it's time for a mini-meal...

My lips are not chapped, my skin is not peeling. I have no sores from

scratching... I have no bruises from mystery imps during the night. My

tinitis is almost completely gone, I slept like a baby last night and

stretched when I got out of bed. My bladder didn't wake me during the

night and my bowels worked right on time this morning. My feet and ankles

are normal size! I have gaps between my toes again, they aren't crammed

together like little pork sausages! I bop along to songs on tv.... It's

worth every minute of chopping pills and setting up my boxes (about 2

hours once every 23 days) to feel this wonderful!

... I'll stop now... I'm having trouble with my soap box today! heheheeh

sorry.

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:11:49 -0800 " JAMY "

writes:

>

> Supposedly, the Armour will help on that but my ranges aren't making

> any sense. A DR that is not into Armour willing upped the dose

> because my levels are so low. I am starting to run into people that

> are adding cytomel to their Armour. As far as getting better at

> some point with converting? Again, I am seeing if you take it slow

> and easy and allow the body to heal. I swear that is why did

> so well when she really should have been a mess. She took it slow

> and easy and allowed the health to come back. I think with her the

> nutrition became a big part. I really think the absorption issues

> are not being looked at enough. I think most thyroid people

> regardless of weight are suffering from malnutrition. JMHO

[Guest guest]

Topper,

I don't mind your soap box - I'm learning a great deal! Your right, whatever it

takes to get well is worth it.

I do agree the nutrition thing has a good deal to do with it. I think I

staved off hypo for a good number of years after I got interested in nutrition

back in 1972. I have been trying to eat better and have taken vitamins ever

since. I think it is the only thing that has kept me going all these years but

I think the stress of the last three years finally pushed me over the edge. In

2001 a friend of 20 years was killed in a hang gliding accident, a friend was

diagnosed with breast cancer in 2002, and my youngest brother died in 2003 from

lung cancer then we moved across the country in 2003.

When I ended up on the couch several months after my brother died shaking with

chills on a heating pad and several blankets with a temp. of 95.6 I knew

something was wrong and it wasn't just depression over his death. Sometimes I

think I have misdiagnosed myself who knows.

Deborah

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

I agree with the malnutrition part.. that is why I got goofy and started

splitting my vitamins... I now chop the capsules into 8 bits... I take

one with each of my mini-meals and one at bedtime.. if I didn't eat 7

mini-meals that day I take the leftovers at night....

My thought was that in this way I'm getting a broad range of nutrients

with everything I eat, no matter what it is... If my body is having

trouble processing something and the left over gets peed out (our bodies

flush the blood roughly every 30 minutes or less....) then all the

vitamins and minerals that I couldn't process just went to go sit in my

bladder.... this way.. I have far much less waste.. I get little bits of

it every two to three hours, whenever I eat....

It's hard to get used to the multi dosing.. I'm literally taking

something every hour of the day.. anywhere from a quarter tab of thyroid

or adrenal to the little pile I take at night that has calcium and

vitamin E and DHEA and multi-vitamin and selenium and iron.... but

darn... I just feel good.. No pain, and not on pain meds. Being able to

do things, simple things like wash dishes or cook a scrambled egg without

having to sit down because of the pain to my back, legs, knees, feet and

arms...

I've gotten used to it now... If I'm not in my office I have a home made

16 compartment pill box that fits in my shirt pocket... I also have a PDA

with an hourly chime.... when it chimes, I take whatever is in the next

cup in my pill box, or its time for a meal and a vitamin chip..... I

consider every time I answer that hourly chime to be another step toward

having a normal life... It's not a chore... in the frame of mind that

I've set for myself.. it's a positive step to feel good versus taking

pain meds or sleeping for the day to make up for being less attentive to

my health.... 10 tiny steps forward with never a step back gets you a lot

farther today then 3 big steps forward and 2 bigger steps back!

I may have to do this for the rest of my life... if so I'll deal with

it.. but there is a little part in the back of my brain that likes to

remind me that it took years to get this run down, and heavy and

miserable.. it could take years to recover from it... and maybe, just

maybe... I'll get to the point where I won't have to make this such a

constant attention thing..... For now... It's gorgeous and sunny out. My

pants fell off when I got up because I forgot the clip the suspender

clips.... I'm not at all hungry even though it's time for a mini-meal...

My lips are not chapped, my skin is not peeling. I have no sores from

scratching... I have no bruises from mystery imps during the night. My

tinitis is almost completely gone, I slept like a baby last night and

stretched when I got out of bed. My bladder didn't wake me during the

night and my bowels worked right on time this morning. My feet and ankles

are normal size! I have gaps between my toes again, they aren't crammed

together like little pork sausages! I bop along to songs on tv.... It's

worth every minute of chopping pills and setting up my boxes (about 2

hours once every 23 days) to feel this wonderful!

... I'll stop now... I'm having trouble with my soap box today! heheheeh

sorry.

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:11:49 -0800 " JAMY "

writes:

>

> Supposedly, the Armour will help on that but my ranges aren't making

> any sense. A DR that is not into Armour willing upped the dose

> because my levels are so low. I am starting to run into people that

> are adding cytomel to their Armour. As far as getting better at

> some point with converting? Again, I am seeing if you take it slow

> and easy and allow the body to heal. I swear that is why did

> so well when she really should have been a mess. She took it slow

> and easy and allowed the health to come back. I think with her the

> nutrition became a big part. I really think the absorption issues

> are not being looked at enough. I think most thyroid people

> regardless of weight are suffering from malnutrition. JMHO

[Guest guest]

I see, thank you for enlightening me. You both sound quite hypo..and I think

that you are doing a fine job with medication. Some times , because this

disease takes many years to manifest itself, it also can take a while to get it

under control. Your basal temp is truly the give away. Mine was 96.4. I was

so sick, and Armour worked wonders for me, but again I am not the example to go

by. I just happened to really respond and in three weeks I was up to 180 and

most of my symptoms were either completely gone or on their way out.

You will be the first to know if you are feeling better, worse, or jittery.

Please watch carefully for shakey hands, trembling, nervousness, heart palps,

anxiety, panic etc...if either of you experience this please consider dropping

back on the Armour for a bit. The shakey hands, trembling, shouldn't last any

longer than 10 minutes....if it does you should drop back. As for the other

ones I mentioned if they happen AT ALL, consider dropping your dose down maybe

30 ok?

You wanna get that T3 in the upper range, the TSH down to as close to 0 as you

can. My TSH is 0.01 and my T3 is out in space...thank God my doc understands

LOL.

Please keep us up to date with all that you are experiencing.

Hugs....PattiSue 29:11

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely

nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why,

I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

I see, thank you for enlightening me. You both sound quite hypo..and I think

that you are doing a fine job with medication. Some times , because this

disease takes many years to manifest itself, it also can take a while to get it

under control. Your basal temp is truly the give away. Mine was 96.4. I was

so sick, and Armour worked wonders for me, but again I am not the example to go

by. I just happened to really respond and in three weeks I was up to 180 and

most of my symptoms were either completely gone or on their way out.

You will be the first to know if you are feeling better, worse, or jittery.

Please watch carefully for shakey hands, trembling, nervousness, heart palps,

anxiety, panic etc...if either of you experience this please consider dropping

back on the Armour for a bit. The shakey hands, trembling, shouldn't last any

longer than 10 minutes....if it does you should drop back. As for the other

ones I mentioned if they happen AT ALL, consider dropping your dose down maybe

30 ok?

You wanna get that T3 in the upper range, the TSH down to as close to 0 as you

can. My TSH is 0.01 and my T3 is out in space...thank God my doc understands

LOL.

Please keep us up to date with all that you are experiencing.

Hugs....PattiSue 29:11

Re: Re: discouraged and whining

It depends a lot on the individual.. but whether you feel the effects in

days or weeks.. if you are taking too much too soon and then don't feel

the effects of it for several more weeks... the excessive T4 is still in

your tissues.... the more you have stored up the longer it takes to be

used up... and the only way to use it up is through your body's

conversion... After my RAI it took a full six months to get all the T4

out of my system... that's a long time to still feel like crap and still

be in fear of dropping over dead from a heart attack... there is nothing

that can be done for excessive T4 in the tissues... absolutely

nothing...

you just have to ride it out until your body uses it up... that is why,

I

believe, some docs may be so chicken about increasing doses and dropping

TSH too low.. they don't understand how it all really works.. they only

fear a patient dropping over dead from an over dose that occurred over

weeks or months.

It's just a common sense thing. You have to learn to observe and listen

to your body... Read, study, research, ask questions here.. so that you

understand what you are seeing in your body, and how your moods or

attitudes change... if you see something that is a bit odd, unusual or

just plan don't understand.. tell us about it.. more than 300 folks in

this group alone... and this isn't the only group.. many of us will ask

on our groups or other groups that we are also members of to find an

answer.....

There is no reason to feel that you are all alone... there is an awful

lot of accumulated experience and research when you pool us all

together.. even someone that has just joined has experienced things...

and may match up with a question that you have posed... Now we have two

of your to work with to find out what the commonality is to figure out

what is going on... we're our own lab rats and research scientists...

lets take advantage of that to learn how to care for ourselves and get

our lives back!!!! The docs sure don't seem to give a shit how we

feel....

... oh my... I do have an attitude today... maybe I should stay off line

for today????

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:51:44 -0500 " VITO LABELLARTE "

writes:

> I guess my thoughts are this, she is already on a T4 med, her body is

> used to the T4. It is the T3 that she is going to have to watch for

> symptoms of. Am I remembering wrong isn't she switching from

> Synthroid to Armour? If not then I am wrong.

> From my personal experience I had absolutely no problems increasing

> 60 each week. I didn't think that 30 every 2 weeks was aggressive.

>

> Patti

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

Stress, like what you've described, can be just the last straw for a body

that is right on the edge...

You know? Stress sucks... My hyper got masked by a stressor in my life...

ex boyfriend beat and raped me... then stalked me for years after that...

the miscarriage that I had from the pregnancy caused by the rape, I

thought, was why my periods stopped.... then, 20 years later... another

serious relationship goes belly up.. he tosses me out so that he can hook

up with a bi-female and then goes to bed with my best friend, Jeff.... I

thought much of what I was going through was depression resulting from

betrayal... turns out it was serve re hypo that just got pushed past the

point of coping....

.... want to take a guess at what happens if either one of them ever shows

up at the front door? Now that my adrenals are able to cope again....

Hmmmm... the imagination goes wild.... Saprano voices, odd walks, if they

can still walk... If their eyes could still open enough to see where they

were trying to walk..... hmmmmmm I better stop now... hehehehehe

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:22:54 -0500 " son "

writes:

> Topper,

>

> I don't mind your soap box - I'm learning a great deal! Your right,

> whatever it takes to get well is worth it.

>

> I do agree the nutrition thing has a good deal to do with it. I

> think I staved off hypo for a good number of years after I got

> interested in nutrition back in 1972. I have been trying to eat

> better and have taken vitamins ever since. I think it is the only

> thing that has kept me going all these years but I think the stress

> of the last three years finally pushed me over the edge. In 2001 a

> friend of 20 years was killed in a hang gliding accident, a friend

> was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2002, and my youngest brother

> died in 2003 from lung cancer then we moved across the country in

> 2003.

>

> When I ended up on the couch several months after my brother died

> shaking with chills on a heating pad and several blankets with a

> temp. of 95.6 I knew something was wrong and it wasn't just

> depression over his death. Sometimes I think I have misdiagnosed

> myself who knows.

>

> Deborah

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

Stress, like what you've described, can be just the last straw for a body

that is right on the edge...

You know? Stress sucks... My hyper got masked by a stressor in my life...

ex boyfriend beat and raped me... then stalked me for years after that...

the miscarriage that I had from the pregnancy caused by the rape, I

thought, was why my periods stopped.... then, 20 years later... another

serious relationship goes belly up.. he tosses me out so that he can hook

up with a bi-female and then goes to bed with my best friend, Jeff.... I

thought much of what I was going through was depression resulting from

betrayal... turns out it was serve re hypo that just got pushed past the

point of coping....

.... want to take a guess at what happens if either one of them ever shows

up at the front door? Now that my adrenals are able to cope again....

Hmmmm... the imagination goes wild.... Saprano voices, odd walks, if they

can still walk... If their eyes could still open enough to see where they

were trying to walk..... hmmmmmm I better stop now... hehehehehe

Topper ()

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:22:54 -0500 " son "

writes:

> Topper,

>

> I don't mind your soap box - I'm learning a great deal! Your right,

> whatever it takes to get well is worth it.

>

> I do agree the nutrition thing has a good deal to do with it. I

> think I staved off hypo for a good number of years after I got

> interested in nutrition back in 1972. I have been trying to eat

> better and have taken vitamins ever since. I think it is the only

> thing that has kept me going all these years but I think the stress

> of the last three years finally pushed me over the edge. In 2001 a

> friend of 20 years was killed in a hang gliding accident, a friend

> was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2002, and my youngest brother

> died in 2003 from lung cancer then we moved across the country in

> 2003.

>

> When I ended up on the couch several months after my brother died

> shaking with chills on a heating pad and several blankets with a

> temp. of 95.6 I knew something was wrong and it wasn't just

> depression over his death. Sometimes I think I have misdiagnosed

> myself who knows.

>

> Deborah