Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Hi Janie and EveryOne, Thanks Janie, it helps but I am still not totally clear about this. If healthy people have a TSH of 1.5-2 and we surpress ours to below 1 by taking thyroid hormone from outside, doesn't that mean that the thyroid gland is basically asleep or on vacation? Does the thyroid gland continue to produce thyroid hormone when the TSH is surpressed? Wouldn't it stop producing thyroid hormone making us totally dependant on thyroid hormone from our meds such as Armour? If we become totally dependant on thyroid hormone from outside, then why don t most of us who are taking thyroid hormone need closer to 5 grains, more or less, depending on the individual? Dr. Derry said they used to dose 3-5 grains before TSH. Some docs still do. Now I am wondering if the fear of the TSH and lawsuits isn't keeping docs dosing less than 3 for the most part while what is _really needed_ for most people is closer to 5 grains just as Dr. Derry said. I don't want to find out 20 years from now that I had lived the past 20 years without quite enough thyroid hormone replacement because doctors feared a law suit. Remember there are some very serious negative effects of being hypo such as heart disease. fatigue etc. Peace, Love and Harmony, Bev Bev, yes, when you introduce even a small amount of Armour to your body, the pituitary gland knows it, and then sends a message via the TSH to lower it's already lowered production. So your hypo returns with a vengeance. Let's say your diseased thyroid puts out 50%. You then start on Armour, and what you start on, gives you another 20%. The pituitary gland goes " HEY!! There's more coming in here! " So it puts a stamp on the TSH, sends it to the thyroid, and tells the thyroid it doesn't need to produce so much. So now the obedient thyroid puts out 20% instead of the 50. And guess what? Your body is now only getting 40%!! Hypo! Crude explanation, but it gets the point across. As far as your question " How can we feel well if we take enough thyroid hormone to supress our own thyroid production but not enough for a full replacement dose? " The sticking point for you is the term 'full replacement dose'. Look at who has no thyroid. She is far far below 5 grains, but is improving steadily. I lean towards believing that 'full replacement dose' is an individual thing. If this doesn't help settle the questions, let us know so we can keep working on this issue. Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 > Hi Janie and EveryOne, > > Thanks Janie, it helps but I am still not totally clear about this. If > healthy people have a TSH of 1.5-2 and we surpress ours to below 1 by taking > thyroid hormone from outside, doesn't that mean that the thyroid gland is > basically asleep or on vacation? Does the thyroid gland continue to produce > thyroid hormone when the TSH is surpressed? > > Peace, Love and Harmony, > Bev I do not think it stops making thyroid hormone if the TSH is suppressed...you notice there's still always at least a minute amount of TSH activity there (and how do we know the TSH test is accurate when TSH drops below a certain place??)...anyway, I think it continues to give what it can, it is made to produce....but, since the body is receiving enough to make the pitutiary not need to send out Thyroid Stimulating signals, the TSH is negligable....you notice that when the TSH is 18 or something, the thryoid is not sending out anymore hormone than it is able, regardless of how constant and intense that signal is...TSH is only an indicator by the pituitary that it wants the thyroid to produce more than it is presently...it has no idea when blood levels are fine, whether the hormone it senses is from the thyroid itself or from supplementation, or both. I think our blood levels of T3 and T4 or FT3 and FT4 are a combbination of what our thyroid is making and what we are giving it from Armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 MM Janie, As for myself, around 10PM I begin to fall apart----------I want peace and quiet (or is that because I am 56 and deserve peace and quiet?). I do not want questions, arguments-----------I cannot handle it. It is as though my whole endocrine system shuts down and demands that I follow suit. But then I get into bed and toss and turn---------no position is comfortable. I take the 5htp, the glass of wine, the advil (not at the same time------I trade off trying various things) and still I cannot go to sleep until 3AM---------so I get up and watch BBCAmerica. So, if there is an issue about the NP and license and lawsuits, why check the TSH at all? Was it not stated that once treatment is started that the TSH is useless? Namaste, (ALDolls) -- Re: Full Replacement Dose? As far as the docs worrying about lawsuits, yes yes yes!! My own NP admitted it. But it wasn't totally lawsuits---she said she could have her license removed if she allowed a TSH to get as low as mine. And note that my NP is EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT. So now, she simply gulps when she sees my TSH (.009), and turns her head. LOL And yes, it is my understanding that when we get our TSH's that low (or when we dose high enough to rid ourselves of symptoms), we do turn our thyroids mostly off. But I also know that time of day makes a difference. What little our thyroids may be doing, may be more in the morning that in the afternoon. But you bring up some interesting points and they need clarification. Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 That sounds so much like adrenal fatigue.... Your adrenals struggle all day to produce... and by the finally get enough to dump into the blood stream it's at the end of the day.. makes you edgy.. snappy.. exhausted yet still unable to sleep.... For me, that all went away when I started taking Adrenal Glandular... Might be something that you want to look at more closely. Topper () On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:04:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time) " ALDolls " writes: > MM Janie, > > As for myself, around 10PM I begin to fall apart----------I want > peace and > quiet (or is that because I am 56 and deserve peace and quiet?). I > do not > want questions, arguments-----------I cannot handle it. It is as > though my > whole endocrine system shuts down and demands that I follow suit. > But then > I get into bed and toss and turn---------no position is comfortable. > I take > the 5htp, the glass of wine, the advil (not at the same time------I > trade > off trying various things) and still I cannot go to sleep until > 3AM---------so I get up and watch BBCAmerica. > > So, if there is an issue about the NP and license and lawsuits, why > check > the TSH at all? Was it not stated that once treatment is started > that the TSH is useless? > > Namaste, > (ALDolls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 That sounds so much like adrenal fatigue.... Your adrenals struggle all day to produce... and by the finally get enough to dump into the blood stream it's at the end of the day.. makes you edgy.. snappy.. exhausted yet still unable to sleep.... For me, that all went away when I started taking Adrenal Glandular... Might be something that you want to look at more closely. Topper () On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:04:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time) " ALDolls " writes: > MM Janie, > > As for myself, around 10PM I begin to fall apart----------I want > peace and > quiet (or is that because I am 56 and deserve peace and quiet?). I > do not > want questions, arguments-----------I cannot handle it. It is as > though my > whole endocrine system shuts down and demands that I follow suit. > But then > I get into bed and toss and turn---------no position is comfortable. > I take > the 5htp, the glass of wine, the advil (not at the same time------I > trade > off trying various things) and still I cannot go to sleep until > 3AM---------so I get up and watch BBCAmerica. > > So, if there is an issue about the NP and license and lawsuits, why > check > the TSH at all? Was it not stated that once treatment is started > that the TSH is useless? > > Namaste, > (ALDolls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 MM , I take Cortef 5mg 4 X a day. Do you think I am not taking enough or are you saying that Adrenal Glandular might be a better option? Sorry, I did not tell the group that I take Cortef. I am also taking Armour Thyroid 4grs divided into 1gr 4 X a day. I upped to 4 grs just last week and today I feel the best I have felt in ages. I pray it lasts. I am calmer today-------not wired but will I sleep tonight? Who knows? Namaste, (ALDolls) -- Re: Re: Full Replacement Dose? That sounds so much like adrenal fatigue.... Your adrenals struggle all day to produce... and by the finally get enough to dump into the blood stream it's at the end of the day.. makes you edgy.. snappy.. exhausted yet still unable to sleep.... For me, that all went away when I started taking Adrenal Glandular... Might be something that you want to look at more closely. Topper () Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 MM , I take Cortef 5mg 4 X a day. Do you think I am not taking enough or are you saying that Adrenal Glandular might be a better option? Sorry, I did not tell the group that I take Cortef. I am also taking Armour Thyroid 4grs divided into 1gr 4 X a day. I upped to 4 grs just last week and today I feel the best I have felt in ages. I pray it lasts. I am calmer today-------not wired but will I sleep tonight? Who knows? Namaste, (ALDolls) -- Re: Re: Full Replacement Dose? That sounds so much like adrenal fatigue.... Your adrenals struggle all day to produce... and by the finally get enough to dump into the blood stream it's at the end of the day.. makes you edgy.. snappy.. exhausted yet still unable to sleep.... For me, that all went away when I started taking Adrenal Glandular... Might be something that you want to look at more closely. Topper () Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Yes, The Armour does exactly that...puts our thyroids on vacation. At least that is what my doctor told me a long time ago. I was concerned at first because I wanted my thyroid to come back to life by itself...no such luck Patti : ) Full Replacement Dose? Hi Janie and EveryOne, Thanks Janie, it helps but I am still not totally clear about this. If healthy people have a TSH of 1.5-2 and we surpress ours to below 1 by taking thyroid hormone from outside, doesn't that mean that the thyroid gland is basically asleep or on vacation? Does the thyroid gland continue to produce thyroid hormone when the TSH is surpressed? Wouldn't it stop producing thyroid hormone making us totally dependant on thyroid hormone from our meds such as Armour? If we become totally dependant on thyroid hormone from outside, then why don t most of us who are taking thyroid hormone need closer to 5 grains, more or less, depending on the individual? Dr. Derry said they used to dose 3-5 grains before TSH. Some docs still do. Now I am wondering if the fear of the TSH and lawsuits isn't keeping docs dosing less than 3 for the most part while what is _really needed_ for most people is closer to 5 grains just as Dr. Derry said. I don't want to find out 20 years from now that I had lived the past 20 years without quite enough thyroid hormone replacement because doctors feared a law suit. Remember there are some very serious negative effects of being hypo such as heart disease. fatigue etc. Peace, Love and Harmony, Bev Bev, yes, when you introduce even a small amount of Armour to your body, the pituitary gland knows it, and then sends a message via the TSH to lower it's already lowered production. So your hypo returns with a vengeance. Let's say your diseased thyroid puts out 50%. You then start on Armour, and what you start on, gives you another 20%. The pituitary gland goes " HEY!! There's more coming in here! " So it puts a stamp on the TSH, sends it to the thyroid, and tells the thyroid it doesn't need to produce so much. So now the obedient thyroid puts out 20% instead of the 50. And guess what? Your body is now only getting 40%!! Hypo! Crude explanation, but it gets the point across. As far as your question " How can we feel well if we take enough thyroid hormone to supress our own thyroid production but not enough for a full replacement dose? " The sticking point for you is the term 'full replacement dose'. Look at who has no thyroid. She is far far below 5 grains, but is improving steadily. I lean towards believing that 'full replacement dose' is an individual thing. If this doesn't help settle the questions, let us know so we can keep working on this issue. Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Yes, The Armour does exactly that...puts our thyroids on vacation. At least that is what my doctor told me a long time ago. I was concerned at first because I wanted my thyroid to come back to life by itself...no such luck Patti : ) Full Replacement Dose? Hi Janie and EveryOne, Thanks Janie, it helps but I am still not totally clear about this. If healthy people have a TSH of 1.5-2 and we surpress ours to below 1 by taking thyroid hormone from outside, doesn't that mean that the thyroid gland is basically asleep or on vacation? Does the thyroid gland continue to produce thyroid hormone when the TSH is surpressed? Wouldn't it stop producing thyroid hormone making us totally dependant on thyroid hormone from our meds such as Armour? If we become totally dependant on thyroid hormone from outside, then why don t most of us who are taking thyroid hormone need closer to 5 grains, more or less, depending on the individual? Dr. Derry said they used to dose 3-5 grains before TSH. Some docs still do. Now I am wondering if the fear of the TSH and lawsuits isn't keeping docs dosing less than 3 for the most part while what is _really needed_ for most people is closer to 5 grains just as Dr. Derry said. I don't want to find out 20 years from now that I had lived the past 20 years without quite enough thyroid hormone replacement because doctors feared a law suit. Remember there are some very serious negative effects of being hypo such as heart disease. fatigue etc. Peace, Love and Harmony, Bev Bev, yes, when you introduce even a small amount of Armour to your body, the pituitary gland knows it, and then sends a message via the TSH to lower it's already lowered production. So your hypo returns with a vengeance. Let's say your diseased thyroid puts out 50%. You then start on Armour, and what you start on, gives you another 20%. The pituitary gland goes " HEY!! There's more coming in here! " So it puts a stamp on the TSH, sends it to the thyroid, and tells the thyroid it doesn't need to produce so much. So now the obedient thyroid puts out 20% instead of the 50. And guess what? Your body is now only getting 40%!! Hypo! Crude explanation, but it gets the point across. As far as your question " How can we feel well if we take enough thyroid hormone to supress our own thyroid production but not enough for a full replacement dose? " The sticking point for you is the term 'full replacement dose'. Look at who has no thyroid. She is far far below 5 grains, but is improving steadily. I lean towards believing that 'full replacement dose' is an individual thing. If this doesn't help settle the questions, let us know so we can keep working on this issue. Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 How long have you been on thyroid? What was your dose before you were on 4 grain? How long were you on the dose before upping to 4 grain? How long have you been on your current dose of Cortef? How long have you been on Cortef, period? Lots of questions involved with figuring all of this out..... shy smile We have a couple of 's on the list.. you might want to call me Topper... less confusing... smile Topper () On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:16:35 -0600 (Central Standard Time) " ALDolls " writes: > MM , > > I take Cortef 5mg 4 X a day. Do you think I am not taking enough or > are you > saying that Adrenal Glandular might be a better option? Sorry, I > did not > tell the group that I take Cortef. I am also taking Armour Thyroid > 4grs > divided into 1gr 4 X a day. I upped to 4 grs just last week and > today I feel > the best I have felt in ages. I pray it lasts. I am calmer > today-------not > wired but will I sleep tonight? Who knows? > > Namaste, > (ALDolls) > -- Re: Re: Full Replacement Dose? > > That sounds so much like adrenal fatigue.... Your adrenals struggle > all > day to produce... and by the finally get enough to dump into the > blood > stream it's at the end of the day.. makes you edgy.. snappy.. > exhausted > yet still unable to sleep.... For me, that all went away when I > started > taking Adrenal Glandular... > > Might be something that you want to look at more closely. > > Topper () > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 How long have you been on thyroid? What was your dose before you were on 4 grain? How long were you on the dose before upping to 4 grain? How long have you been on your current dose of Cortef? How long have you been on Cortef, period? Lots of questions involved with figuring all of this out..... shy smile We have a couple of 's on the list.. you might want to call me Topper... less confusing... smile Topper () On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:16:35 -0600 (Central Standard Time) " ALDolls " writes: > MM , > > I take Cortef 5mg 4 X a day. Do you think I am not taking enough or > are you > saying that Adrenal Glandular might be a better option? Sorry, I > did not > tell the group that I take Cortef. I am also taking Armour Thyroid > 4grs > divided into 1gr 4 X a day. I upped to 4 grs just last week and > today I feel > the best I have felt in ages. I pray it lasts. I am calmer > today-------not > wired but will I sleep tonight? Who knows? > > Namaste, > (ALDolls) > -- Re: Re: Full Replacement Dose? > > That sounds so much like adrenal fatigue.... Your adrenals struggle > all > day to produce... and by the finally get enough to dump into the > blood > stream it's at the end of the day.. makes you edgy.. snappy.. > exhausted > yet still unable to sleep.... For me, that all went away when I > started > taking Adrenal Glandular... > > Might be something that you want to look at more closely. > > Topper () > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 This raises another issue - the ratio of T3 to T4 is higher in Thyrolar than Armour. Louise > Perhaps some of the answer is in the amount of T3 we are getting in > Armour. It's supposed to be a higher ratio than our own thyroids > would be giving us (80/20 vs. 93/7, T4 to T3). Thus, the > higher " direct " T3 could be driving that TSH lower. > > Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 MM Topper, Was on Synthroid from 1995-2003. Changed to Armour Aug. 2003 (1gr a day). In October started Cortef 5mg 4 X a day October increased Armour to 1 1/2 gr per day November increased Armour to 2grs per day December increased Armour to 3grs perday January (1 week ago) increased Armour to 4grs per day (1gr 4 X a day SL) Namaste, (ALDolls) -- Re: Re: Full Replacement Dose? How long have you been on thyroid? What was your dose before you were on 4 grain? How long were you on the dose before upping to 4 grain? How long have you been on your current dose of Cortef? How long have you been on Cortef, period? Lots of questions involved with figuring all of this out..... shy smile We have a couple of 's on the list.. you might want to call me Topper... less confusing... smile Topper () Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 MM Topper, Was on Synthroid from 1995-2003. Changed to Armour Aug. 2003 (1gr a day). In October started Cortef 5mg 4 X a day October increased Armour to 1 1/2 gr per day November increased Armour to 2grs per day December increased Armour to 3grs perday January (1 week ago) increased Armour to 4grs per day (1gr 4 X a day SL) Namaste, (ALDolls) -- Re: Re: Full Replacement Dose? How long have you been on thyroid? What was your dose before you were on 4 grain? How long were you on the dose before upping to 4 grain? How long have you been on your current dose of Cortef? How long have you been on Cortef, period? Lots of questions involved with figuring all of this out..... shy smile We have a couple of 's on the list.. you might want to call me Topper... less confusing... smile Topper () Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Or everyone is different. I went two years without meds once and felt just fine after a complete thyroidectomy. Yes a doctor told me this was fine. It was not until I miscarried that someone told me that thyroid meds are not optional. Who knows what my TSH was back then. Some people don't feel bad at 5. Others are dying. And I have NO thyroid yet I feel kinda weird at 3 grains. Somedays when I am really working I will take 3. My first symptom is joint pain and irritability. As soon as I start to lose patience with the kids I think " Did I take my meds? " Usually my answer is no. I am so thrilled that I finally figured out what my indicators are that I am swinging hypo. So I remain at 2 and sometimes I'll pop a grain before bed if I feel edgy or my wrists hurt. Life is good!! And I say if the pituitary wants meds I give it to him. I want to keep my glands happy!! in AZ Mom to Kayla(10), Jenna(8), (8), (6), (6), (5), Junie(3), and (2yo twins), Jillian (13 mo) and Mahlina(9.5mo) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Arizona_Thyroid_Groups/ www.teambettendorf.com > I can also see another question not quite stated---why do healthy > folks have a TSH of 1.5ish and feel great, yet we don't feel great > (or we aren't we rid of all symptoms) until we get our TSH below one. > Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Or everyone is different. I went two years without meds once and felt just fine after a complete thyroidectomy. Yes a doctor told me this was fine. It was not until I miscarried that someone told me that thyroid meds are not optional. Who knows what my TSH was back then. Some people don't feel bad at 5. Others are dying. And I have NO thyroid yet I feel kinda weird at 3 grains. Somedays when I am really working I will take 3. My first symptom is joint pain and irritability. As soon as I start to lose patience with the kids I think " Did I take my meds? " Usually my answer is no. I am so thrilled that I finally figured out what my indicators are that I am swinging hypo. So I remain at 2 and sometimes I'll pop a grain before bed if I feel edgy or my wrists hurt. Life is good!! And I say if the pituitary wants meds I give it to him. I want to keep my glands happy!! in AZ Mom to Kayla(10), Jenna(8), (8), (6), (6), (5), Junie(3), and (2yo twins), Jillian (13 mo) and Mahlina(9.5mo) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Arizona_Thyroid_Groups/ www.teambettendorf.com > I can also see another question not quite stated---why do healthy > folks have a TSH of 1.5ish and feel great, yet we don't feel great > (or we aren't we rid of all symptoms) until we get our TSH below one. > Janie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (ALDolls) I'm seeing a lot of Armour increases of a rather short period of time and the last one was an awful big jump, after already being on 3 grains..... Your body may not be too happy with you right now. It's sometimes hard to remember that it takes 4 to 6 weeks for the T4 from a dosage increase to build up in the tissues to the degree that it will show itself as adequate or as an over dose. You could be a month or more into a dosage increase before you begin to observe symptoms lessening or begin to see signs of to much med by presenting symptoms of over dose. With an 8 year history of Synthroid dosing (how much were you on) you may have had a lot of stress to your adrenals, I did BIG TIME. You've been a Cortef since October, about 3 months, still not enough time to make a huge effect on the adrenals... and with those increases of Armour coming so large and rapid... you may have added stress to your adrenals... that is going to account for a lot of the aches and pains. For adrenals that are really pooped, your looking at 2 or more years of supplementing them to allow them time to heal and recuperate. Your's while getting the Cortef, have had the added stress of the quick and large Armour dosage increases... You may just need give your body some time, at this point, to adjust and do some healing. It's gonna have a lot of repair work to do.... Not everyone on Synthroid is undermedicated... but a great many are... and that will increase what your body is working on now in the way of repairs... You are on the right road.... now help your body do it's work.... What are you taking for other supplements? Vitamins, minerals, etc.... You are dosing the Armour 4X per day, sublingual.. that's good... keeping the levels even while your body works on this.... Yep.... now it's up to your body, to adjust to the dosing... to continue with the repair work... and you, to help it with what it needs to do that work. Nutritious food, good vitamins and minerals.. Some selenium, E, C, Calcium, Iron, Omega - 3's.... Try not to over do yourself...function to your capacity, as much as possible and then rest. Don't add to the repair work your body is doing, if you can help it at all.... One trick I've learned, for as run down as I was... is to do 'commercial chores' You can get up and do chores like a mad woman whenever there is a commercial on tv. When the commercial ends you SIT DOWN. Next commercial comes on... Hit the ground running. It's amazing how much you can get done without exhausting your body in the process. I've set myself up so that I have sit down chores and run around chores... so I'm busy working on something all day long and by the end of the day I have most everything done.... AND get to watch my shows at the same time! A win win! You'll get there.. everyone here will be helping with suggestions and experiences.... Topper () On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:14:12 -0600 (Central Standard Time) " ALDolls " writes: > MM Topper, > > Was on Synthroid from 1995-2003. > Changed to Armour Aug. 2003 (1gr a day). > In October started Cortef 5mg 4 X a day > October increased Armour to 1 1/2 gr per day > November increased Armour to 2grs per day > December increased Armour to 3grs perday > January (1 week ago) increased Armour to 4grs per day (1gr 4 X a day > SL) > > Namaste, > (ALDolls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (ALDolls) I'm seeing a lot of Armour increases of a rather short period of time and the last one was an awful big jump, after already being on 3 grains..... Your body may not be too happy with you right now. It's sometimes hard to remember that it takes 4 to 6 weeks for the T4 from a dosage increase to build up in the tissues to the degree that it will show itself as adequate or as an over dose. You could be a month or more into a dosage increase before you begin to observe symptoms lessening or begin to see signs of to much med by presenting symptoms of over dose. With an 8 year history of Synthroid dosing (how much were you on) you may have had a lot of stress to your adrenals, I did BIG TIME. You've been a Cortef since October, about 3 months, still not enough time to make a huge effect on the adrenals... and with those increases of Armour coming so large and rapid... you may have added stress to your adrenals... that is going to account for a lot of the aches and pains. For adrenals that are really pooped, your looking at 2 or more years of supplementing them to allow them time to heal and recuperate. Your's while getting the Cortef, have had the added stress of the quick and large Armour dosage increases... You may just need give your body some time, at this point, to adjust and do some healing. It's gonna have a lot of repair work to do.... Not everyone on Synthroid is undermedicated... but a great many are... and that will increase what your body is working on now in the way of repairs... You are on the right road.... now help your body do it's work.... What are you taking for other supplements? Vitamins, minerals, etc.... You are dosing the Armour 4X per day, sublingual.. that's good... keeping the levels even while your body works on this.... Yep.... now it's up to your body, to adjust to the dosing... to continue with the repair work... and you, to help it with what it needs to do that work. Nutritious food, good vitamins and minerals.. Some selenium, E, C, Calcium, Iron, Omega - 3's.... Try not to over do yourself...function to your capacity, as much as possible and then rest. Don't add to the repair work your body is doing, if you can help it at all.... One trick I've learned, for as run down as I was... is to do 'commercial chores' You can get up and do chores like a mad woman whenever there is a commercial on tv. When the commercial ends you SIT DOWN. Next commercial comes on... Hit the ground running. It's amazing how much you can get done without exhausting your body in the process. I've set myself up so that I have sit down chores and run around chores... so I'm busy working on something all day long and by the end of the day I have most everything done.... AND get to watch my shows at the same time! A win win! You'll get there.. everyone here will be helping with suggestions and experiences.... Topper () On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:14:12 -0600 (Central Standard Time) " ALDolls " writes: > MM Topper, > > Was on Synthroid from 1995-2003. > Changed to Armour Aug. 2003 (1gr a day). > In October started Cortef 5mg 4 X a day > October increased Armour to 1 1/2 gr per day > November increased Armour to 2grs per day > December increased Armour to 3grs perday > January (1 week ago) increased Armour to 4grs per day (1gr 4 X a day > SL) > > Namaste, > (ALDolls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Ok guys, I've bought books and bought books, researched and researched, read and read (not that I can remember anything longer than about 60 seconds). I ve called a couple docs in my area and I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to try to convince my current doc that I'd like to try Armour. After reading the " Full Replacement Dose " post, here is my question. Before I go to the doc and ask to try the Armour, should I start myself on Cortef for a few months prior to that? My last complaints to doc have been about anxiety, and my problems with it have become steadily worse over the years. If I would allow myself, I would probably be bedridden during the Christmas holidays I feel so badly. Anyway, after all my reading I've discovered this could be due to adrenal stress, so that is why I'm asking about the Cortef, or was Isocort more highly recommended? I can't remember now. I've been on synthetic hormone since the summer of 1990 and currently take 150 mcg, which has been my dosage for quite a number of years now. Can Cortef or Isocort be purchased OTC or is this something I have to order over the Internet? TIA Grain Valley, MO Oh, I can't remember who recommended Dr. Springer to me, but thank you. Unfortunately, I don't think I can afford her, and the labs, and the meds, etc. I have no insurance so everything is cash and carry here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 --- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " jreid69 " > Can Cortef or Isocort be purchased OTC or is this something I have to order > over the Internet? > > TIA > > Grain Valley, MO Hi ! I have used both Cortef and Isocort and everything else in between, meaning glandular adreanl cortex products from the health food store, adrenal support in liquid drops containing licorice root, mega-dosing on B, complex vitamins, pantothenic acid and high doses of vitamin C, good rest, sleep and structure in my life over probably the last 30+ years. Isocort is available OTC - usually on the internet, some have even reported finding it at health food stores! This may be the place to start. I am on cortef and so is one of my sons...the other son is on Isocort and has found he needs to continue taking it and his vitamins daily because it gives excellent adrenal support, but he stays on the verge of falling back into adrenal fatigue becaue he is continually stressing those adrenals. Keep taking your vitamins as well. Cortef is what my doctor recommends if you have a more severe case of adrenal fatigue, because it is faster. But either way, be aware that it could take months or years to fully recharge your adrenals. I like Isocort and feel it has helped me a lot. But I prefer the Cortef because it contains more cortisol which I think I need at least until these harsh Chicago temps are over....my son has adrenal exhaustion and so isocort didn't seem to make a dent for him. ALL of the above work and have worked well for me in my life. You might also try 7-keto or DHEA. To me, it's a matter of preference. But I think you're right in supporting your adrenals before you get your Armour and start raising dosages. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 --- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " jreid69 " > Can Cortef or Isocort be purchased OTC or is this something I have to order > over the Internet? > > TIA > > Grain Valley, MO Hi ! I have used both Cortef and Isocort and everything else in between, meaning glandular adreanl cortex products from the health food store, adrenal support in liquid drops containing licorice root, mega-dosing on B, complex vitamins, pantothenic acid and high doses of vitamin C, good rest, sleep and structure in my life over probably the last 30+ years. Isocort is available OTC - usually on the internet, some have even reported finding it at health food stores! This may be the place to start. I am on cortef and so is one of my sons...the other son is on Isocort and has found he needs to continue taking it and his vitamins daily because it gives excellent adrenal support, but he stays on the verge of falling back into adrenal fatigue becaue he is continually stressing those adrenals. Keep taking your vitamins as well. Cortef is what my doctor recommends if you have a more severe case of adrenal fatigue, because it is faster. But either way, be aware that it could take months or years to fully recharge your adrenals. I like Isocort and feel it has helped me a lot. But I prefer the Cortef because it contains more cortisol which I think I need at least until these harsh Chicago temps are over....my son has adrenal exhaustion and so isocort didn't seem to make a dent for him. ALL of the above work and have worked well for me in my life. You might also try 7-keto or DHEA. To me, it's a matter of preference. But I think you're right in supporting your adrenals before you get your Armour and start raising dosages. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I saw DHEA in Wal-mart yesterday, but I'm always loathe to make a purchase, since there is no regulation of these items I never know whether I'm buying a brand with a good potency, etc. Does anyone have brands that they recommend? Hi ! I have used both Cortef and Isocort and everything else in between, meaning glandular adreanl cortex products from the health food store, adrenal support in liquid drops containing licorice root, mega-dosing on B, complex vitamins, pantothenic acid and high doses of vitamin C, good rest, sleep and structure in my life over probably the last 30+ years. Isocort is available OTC - usually on the internet, some have even reported finding it at health food stores! This may be the place to start. I am on cortef and so is one of my sons...the other son is on Isocort and has found he needs to continue taking it and his vitamins daily because it gives excellent adrenal support, but he stays on the verge of falling back into adrenal fatigue becaue he is continually stressing those adrenals. Keep taking your vitamins as well. Cortef is what my doctor recommends if you have a more severe case of adrenal fatigue, because it is faster. But either way, be aware that it could take months or years to fully recharge your adrenals. I like Isocort and feel it has helped me a lot. But I prefer the Cortef because it contains more cortisol which I think I need at least until these harsh Chicago temps are over....my son has adrenal exhaustion and so isocort didn't seem to make a dent for him. ALL of the above work and have worked well for me in my life. You might also try 7-keto or DHEA. To me, it's a matter of preference. But I think you're right in supporting your adrenals before you get your Armour and start raising dosages. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I saw DHEA in Wal-mart yesterday, but I'm always loathe to make a purchase, since there is no regulation of these items I never know whether I'm buying a brand with a good potency, etc. Does anyone have brands that they recommend? Hi ! I have used both Cortef and Isocort and everything else in between, meaning glandular adreanl cortex products from the health food store, adrenal support in liquid drops containing licorice root, mega-dosing on B, complex vitamins, pantothenic acid and high doses of vitamin C, good rest, sleep and structure in my life over probably the last 30+ years. Isocort is available OTC - usually on the internet, some have even reported finding it at health food stores! This may be the place to start. I am on cortef and so is one of my sons...the other son is on Isocort and has found he needs to continue taking it and his vitamins daily because it gives excellent adrenal support, but he stays on the verge of falling back into adrenal fatigue becaue he is continually stressing those adrenals. Keep taking your vitamins as well. Cortef is what my doctor recommends if you have a more severe case of adrenal fatigue, because it is faster. But either way, be aware that it could take months or years to fully recharge your adrenals. I like Isocort and feel it has helped me a lot. But I prefer the Cortef because it contains more cortisol which I think I need at least until these harsh Chicago temps are over....my son has adrenal exhaustion and so isocort didn't seem to make a dent for him. ALL of the above work and have worked well for me in my life. You might also try 7-keto or DHEA. To me, it's a matter of preference. But I think you're right in supporting your adrenals before you get your Armour and start raising dosages. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 > I saw DHEA in Wal-mart yesterday, but I'm always loathe to make a purchase, > since there is no regulation of these items I never know whether I'm buying > a brand with a good potency, etc. Does anyone have brands that they > recommend? > > My doctors always recommend PureEncapsulations Brand MICRONIZED DHEA. I get mine at myvitanet.com....I know practicioners carry it, but not sure if it is in any stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 > I saw DHEA in Wal-mart yesterday, but I'm always loathe to make a purchase, > since there is no regulation of these items I never know whether I'm buying > a brand with a good potency, etc. Does anyone have brands that they > recommend? > > My doctors always recommend PureEncapsulations Brand MICRONIZED DHEA. I get mine at myvitanet.com....I know practicioners carry it, but not sure if it is in any stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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