Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 > So you are saying that we're guiltless when we get autoimmune > disorders, but to blame when we get type 2 diabetes. (Type 1 diabetes > is an autoimmune disease.)>>>> > I did not say that, I was very careful to use qualifiers and not generalize. But I do believe that is SOME cases for SOME diseases, people have lifestyles or habits that affect their health adversely. That's all. Pris ************** Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 So you are saying that we're guiltless when we get autoimmune disorders, but to blame when we get type 2 diabetes. (Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease.) There are plenty of obese people who don't have diabetes, and there are non-obese people who do have it. If a person has the diabetes gene, he will eventually get diabetes, through no fault of his own. I have never been obese, but I got diabetes, because the gene was passed down to me. Diabetes was in both sides of my family, and I was one of the unlucky ones who got it. It was the same with RA, and with the Fuchs' corneal dystrophy that I also have. I just didn't choose my parents wisely. Sue On Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 06:16 PM, swierzop wrote: > > Diabetes is not an autoimmune illness, it is a civilizational disease > (it's widespread and its cause is the civilization's excesses...). > > ................................... > You guys are not guilty of getting sick. You didn't do anything wrong! > You families didn't do anything wrong! We don't know how to protect > ourselves from autoimmune disorders. WE DON'T KNOW HOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I was raised by my grandparents and never knew my father's side of the family beyond who they are. Recently there was a death in that side of the family and I had reason to see them. I asked about health issues because I have never known. The doctors always ask and I never know. I learned first that my dad has had 3 heart attacks, then, that all the female members on that side are disabled by RA. I cannot describe to you how it felt when I heard that. I know now where mine came from. I was in awe because I heard my life seemingly described by so many. WOW -cyn From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Family of Origin So you are saying that we're guiltless when we get autoimmune disorders, but to blame when we get type 2 diabetes. (Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease.) There are plenty of obese people who don't have diabetes, and there are non-obese people who do have it. If a person has the diabetes gene, he will eventually get diabetes, through no fault of his own. I have never been obese, but I got diabetes, because the gene was passed down to me. Diabetes was in both sides of my family, and I was one of the unlucky ones who got it. It was the same with RA, and with the Fuchs' corneal dystrophy that I also have. I just didn't choose my parents wisely. Sue On Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 06:16 PM, swierzop wrote: > > Diabetes is not an autoimmune illness, it is a civilizational disease > (it's widespread and its cause is the civilization's excesses...). > > ................................... > You guys are not guilty of getting sick. You didn't do anything wrong! > You families didn't do anything wrong! We don't know how to protect > ourselves from autoimmune disorders. WE DON'T KNOW HOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Kathry will said. Fair <kalfoley@...> wrote: It might also be helpful to point out that several studies have found that people with chronic/terminal disease look for elements that " caused " their disease. We have a human need to find a " why " and latch on to a reason for having disease and disability. There was an interesting study of women with breast cancer who were convinced that an earlier injury to their breast was related to the cancer. It's helpful to introspect about our own past and current stressors and figure out how to manage them effectively so we don't have additional pain because of tension and pumping out stress hormones. However, we must be careful not to make the error of correlation=causation in which we're saying, gee, I know lots of people who had traumatic experiences and they went on to develop autoimmune problems, therefore trauma=autoimmune disease. I also firmly believe that there are probably several rheumatic diseases that get bundled under the RA header. For example all the various lab findings probably suggest that different profiles (antiCCP +, CRP levels, sed rate, RF status etc) are actually different diseases. Remember that AS used to be called RA until it got its own category. Rheumatology is clearly in its infancy and we just don't understand much about the immune system and why it makes errors in which it attacks the body. To stay on my soap box a second longer, I also feel that a lot of this trauma debate is a hold over from the '60s and 70s when physicians talked about the " rheumatoid personality " or gee, what drags these negative nellies with RA could be. Wah wah, always going on about their joint pain. Here's some aspirin, take it 'til your ears ring and maybe when your hands start curling we'll give you some gold injections. RA has been dismissed and minimized until only the recent past. Lots of blame the victim out there. Even my father goes on about what a PITA his mother could be at times. After all, I don't hear MS patients being asked to reflect on how their trauma caused their immune system to attack their CNS. Oh, and keep in mind that physical, sexual, and emotional abuse are shockingly common in American families as are the rates of adult physical assault, robbery, motor vehicle accidents etc, while RA and autoimmune diseases are *relatively rare* across the population. Therefore there are lots of people with trauma histories who do NOT have RA. In fact, I'd guess the majority of trauma survivors do not have RA. Off soapbox now. Kate F ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Terrific post as always Kate! They are always very informative and I love them! It's so very true that many tend to look for what " caused " their illness. I remember in the beginning, wondering if it was karma, or something that I had done wrong. Then I realized with introspection and changes in cognitive thinking that good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to good people. I've met many who have survived trauma and do not have any rheumatic illness. I know those that had stressful childhoods, some of my relatives, and they have great health. Yet several that have had wonderful attitudes, limited stress, and great childhoods and they are disfigured and barely able to walk due to RA. Recently there was an article on FMS and how it was stress to the body that caused that illness. A doctor who had once written papers supporting FMS as a physical disease had changed his perspective and now said it was stress that caused it. I thought we had finally gotten somewhere when Lyrica was approved, but it was the attitude of that doctor that made me feel we were being setback again. It will be so nice when they finally realize, illness just happens, and stress can make it worse, but necessarily doesn't have to " cause " it. --- Fair <kalfoley@...> wrote: > It might also be helpful to point out that several > studies have found that people with chronic/terminal > disease look for elements that " caused " their > disease. We have a human need to find a " why " and > latch on to a reason for having disease and > disability. There was an interesting study of women > with breast cancer who were convinced that an > earlier injury to their breast was related to the > cancer. It's helpful to introspect about our own > past and current stressors and figure out how to > manage them effectively so we don't have additional > pain because of tension and pumping out stress > hormones. However, we must be careful not to make > the error of correlation=causation in which we're > saying, gee, I know lots of people who had traumatic > experiences and they went on to develop autoimmune > problems, therefore trauma=autoimmune disease. > > I also firmly believe that there are probably > several rheumatic diseases that get bundled under > the RA header. For example all the various lab > findings probably suggest that different profiles > (antiCCP +, CRP levels, sed rate, RF status etc) are > actually different diseases. Remember that AS used > to be called RA until it got its own category. > Rheumatology is clearly in its infancy and we just > don't understand much about the immune system and > why it makes errors in which it attacks the body. > > To stay on my soap box a second longer, I also feel > that a lot of this trauma debate is a hold over from > the '60s and 70s when physicians talked about the > " rheumatoid personality " or gee, what drags these > negative nellies with RA could be. Wah wah, always > going on about their joint pain. Here's some > aspirin, take it 'til your ears ring and maybe when > your hands start curling we'll give you some gold > injections. RA has been dismissed and minimized > until only the recent past. Lots of blame the > victim out there. Even my father goes on about what > a PITA his mother could be at times. > > After all, I don't hear MS patients being asked to > reflect on how their trauma caused their immune > system to attack their CNS. > > Oh, and keep in mind that physical, sexual, and > emotional abuse are shockingly common in American > families as are the rates of adult physical assault, > robbery, motor vehicle accidents etc, while RA and > autoimmune diseases are *relatively rare* across the > population. Therefore there are lots of people with > trauma histories who do NOT have RA. In fact, I'd > guess the majority of trauma survivors do not have > RA. > > Off soapbox now. > > Kate F > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Actually I do think it's valid to respond strongly to pseudoscience. I don't believe in validating falsehoods just because they might be comforting or convenient. I think I justified my opinion which I feel is reinforced by my academic and clinical training-- at length. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but I don't apologize for using the word " crap " . As a former Navy girl, I could have used a lot stronger, so for me that's restraint [ ] Re: Family of Origin > > No offense to you or your doctor, but I think it's crap. > ----- I don't think I'd call anyone's theory a load of crap, if that " theory " helps them to cope. Of course, I'm not a PhD, I'm only a JD. As was pointed out, we all search for answers. It is my layman's experience and position that the " not knowing " the answer for some things to be frustrating, even agonizing. If one contemplates, hypothozies, theorizes and comes to their own answer for " why " and it brings them any relief and comfort I would respect that, and start exploring from there. If it helps their pain and helps them to cope I would be loathe to invalidate their " answer " by throwing a load of excrement upon it. ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 When a doctor states that one is making them self sick I'm not sure that really helps one to cope. To me that would make me even sicker! Especially when I know my illnesses are not " caused " by stress! To me it is very demeaning as an ill person to have some doctor say I am only experiencing pain and disfigurement due to " stress " . I feel that its easy for doctors to just " write one off " that way. --- Fair <kalfoley@...> wrote: > Actually I do think it's valid to respond strongly > to pseudoscience. I don't believe in validating > falsehoods just because they might be comforting or > convenient. I think I justified my opinion which I > feel is reinforced by my academic and clinical > training-- at length. If you don't agree with me, > that's fine, but I don't apologize for using the > word " crap " . As a former Navy girl, I could have > used a lot stronger, so for me that's restraint > > > [ ] Re: Family of Origin > > > > > > No offense to you or your doctor, but I think it's > crap. > ----- > > I don't think I'd call anyone's theory a load of > crap, > if that " theory " helps them to cope. > > Of course, I'm not a PhD, I'm only a JD. > > As was pointed out, we all search for answers. > It is my layman's experience and position > that the " not knowing " > the answer for some things > to be frustrating, even agonizing. > > If one contemplates, > hypothozies, > theorizes and > comes to their own answer for " why " > and it brings them any relief and comfort > I would respect that, and > start exploring from there. > > If it helps their pain and helps them to cope > I would be loathe to invalidate their " answer " > by throwing a load of excrement upon it. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Search. > http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Whoa, here! First I never said my doc told me that stress was the cause - only that stress could be a trigger for that first flare. Not the only trigger, just one possible one that was likely in my case. And I was talking about some pretty extreme physical stress in my case, injuries from a major auto accident. Not stressing out over stuff, but something that makes the body work really hard to overcome. I do believe emotional stress can reach that point, that's why my daughter's therapist worked with her on stress reduction. Breathing techniques, meditation, that bring the heart rate down and bring in more oxygen, etc. Such things can really make a physical difference. I did, literally, watch my daughter make herself sicker! But it was her underlying condition that brought on the stress, not the stress that caused her problems in the first place. Whatever, if stress reduction makes you feel better, I say do it. On Jan 28, 2008 10:31 AM, stephanie <stephieann2@...> wrote: > > > > > > > When a doctor states that one is making them self sick > I'm not sure that really helps one to cope. To me > that would make me even sicker! Especially when I know > my illnesses are not " caused " by stress! To me it is > very demeaning as an ill person to have some doctor > say I am only experiencing pain and disfigurement due > to " stress " . I feel that its easy for doctors to just > " write one off " that way. > --- Fair <kalfoley@...> wrote: > > > Actually I do think it's valid to respond strongly > > to pseudoscience. I don't believe in validating > > falsehoods just because they might be comforting or > > convenient. I think I justified my opinion which I > > feel is reinforced by my academic and clinical > > training-- at length. If you don't agree with me, > > that's fine, but I don't apologize for using the > > word " crap " . As a former Navy girl, I could have > > used a lot stronger, so for me that's restraint > > > > > > [ ] Re: Family of Origin > > > > > > > > > > No offense to you or your doctor, but I think it's > > crap. > ----- > > > > I don't think I'd call anyone's theory a load of > > crap, > > if that " theory " helps them to cope. > > > > Of course, I'm not a PhD, I'm only a JD. > > > > As was pointed out, we all search for answers. > > It is my layman's experience and position > > that the " not knowing " > > the answer for some things > > to be frustrating, even agonizing. > > > > If one contemplates, > > hypothozies, > > theorizes and > > comes to their own answer for " why " > > and it brings them any relief and comfort > > I would respect that, and > > start exploring from there. > > > > If it helps their pain and helps them to cope > > I would be loathe to invalidate their " answer " > > by throwing a load of excrement upon it. > > -- South Pasadena, CA / Lilydale, MN You can see my galleries at http://www.pbase.com/arenared986 M. Schulz - " All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi everyone, I thought I would add my 2 cents here. I have had RA for 8 years now. I was diagnosed in 1999 at age 22. For me, I believe my RA is mostly hereditary. My mother has 9 biological siblings -- all 3 of her sisters had/have RA, 1 also had MS & UC; 2 of her 3 sisters died of heart attacks before their 50th bdays. Of her 6 brothers, 1 has CP, 1 has Bell's Palsy, 1 has COPD, 1 has AIDS and all have RA. My mom has COPD, Hep A and had rheumatic fever as a child and is currently awaiting a lung transplant. Additionally, of my 35 1st cousins, 1 has Tourette's, 2 have psoriasis & 1 has psoriatic arthritis. On top of this, every single aunt, uncle & cousin, plus my mom & sister, have asthma & /or severe allergies. (ironically enough, I am the only one without asthma/allergies. In addition, my dad has psoriasis and has had 3 heart attacks (cancer and heart disease runs on that side). I grew up in Queens, NY and attended college at a small university in rural PA. I was the 2nd person in my family in 4 generations to move out of the city. When my RA developed, my father, in order to " blame " someone/thing believed that I never would have had RA if I hadn't gone to college in PA. My mother, on the other hand, believes it wouldn't be so " bad " if it happened in NYC because I would have been dx'd faster. (as an aside, one of the worst doctors I have seen was in Queens). Take care everyone! It is supposed to be 60 degrees here in VA tomorrow! Woohoo! Steph in VA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The 2007 Charlottesville Arthritis Walk was a success! We raised just over $30,000 for research & programs for people with arthritis! " Never underestimate the power of a small, dedicated group of people to change the world -- indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. " (Margaret Mead) --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi ! Those are the doctors that frustrate me the most! I was told by my social security case manager the first time my doctor has me apply that I was too educated, too young and too pretty to file for disability. I asked them when did illness require an age? We have babies that are born ill every day, children that are sick from the day they are born! I had one doctor I was referred to tell me I was too much paperwork. I'm thinking if these kinds of doctors don't want to TREAT people they shouldn't be in a specialty where they are seeing patients!! With the FMS I have been made to feel by some doctors that " it's all in my head " when they finally found out it wasn't! With my inflammatory, atleast they can physically SEE something! I finally felt a little vindicated then!! --- <man_u8@...> wrote: > , > > I have been told that I am making myself sick and > that I am " too > young " to be in pain. This doctor refused to write > me any rx's. (she > was filling in when my pcp was out). I was pissed. > I never knew > pain had an age requirment or that I am doing this > to myself. I have > been to many doctors who I refuse to see because of > this way of > thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No offense to you or your doctor, but I think > it's > > > crap. > ----- > > > > > > I don't think I'd call anyone's theory a load of > > > crap, > > > if that " theory " helps them to cope. > > > > > > Of course, I'm not a PhD, I'm only a JD. > > > > > > As was pointed out, we all search for answers. > > > It is my layman's experience and position > > > that the " not knowing " > > > the answer for some things > > > to be frustrating, even agonizing. > > > > > > If one contemplates, > > > hypothozies, > > > theorizes and > > > comes to their own answer for " why " > > > and it brings them any relief and comfort > > > I would respect that, and > > > start exploring from there. > > > > > > If it helps their pain and helps them to cope > > > I would be loathe to invalidate their " answer " > > > by throwing a load of excrement upon it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > > > Find them fast with Search. > > > > > > http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php? > category=shopping > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > > Find them fast with Search. > http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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