Re: Updosed today by .5mgs (w/response)

[Guest guest]

HI ,

It seems that the .5mgs updose has done very little, as of this morning. Some

of the severe symptoms are sensation of body bouncing, agoraphobia, throat

tightness, extreme anxiety/panic, head pressure, loss of appetite or any desire

to eat (unusal for my normal self), obsessive compulsive behavior (also out of

character for me). Also stress with boyfriend, who has been doing shopping,

cooking etc. Have been working with a therapist by phone, who has been through

cold turkey withdrawal & does the Ashton method, which I feel is so misguided.

I don't know if my doctor or she will approve of the 5mg increase. But I'm

listening. So many feel that you do have to suffer, as you withdraw, & I would

like to believe they are wrong. ARe you saying I should go back to the full

28mgs? If so, how often to increase by 5mgs. I will have to check with doctor.

I feel like I wasted 8 months of suffering now. I felt so sedated & still very

out of it at that point, (when I started the taper) with still the same

symptoms. I feel very concerned at my lack of functioning & extreme discomfort.

No, I do not know how to copy & paste, as i have poor computer skills & now eye

sensitivity to computer, being in withdrawal. The neurological stuff is very

hard. Throat tightness very difficult. have had a few window days that last 24

hrs. Feel out of touch with reality as the derealization is so intense , feel

vulnerable , scared, very fragile, have lost alot of weight (but still normal

weight), extremely sensitive to everything and everyone (which is not normal for

me). I was a very healthy, well functioning adult, doctor & minister prior to

this. I have been suffering greatly, and praying to God for help. Could you be

more specific, as to how to proceed with updosing, & how long do you have to

feel good (how many days) prior to reducing again. My history with the

reductions has been one good day, one bad day, so it's been hard to determine.

Have never felt well since tolerance, had a difficult crossover, and have still

not felt well for more than a day at a time, since. Hope this makes sense.

Thank you so much for your assistance. I appreicate it more than you know. I

will look for your response. Haven't been able to think straight or make

decisions well, due to the drug, so need very explicit, spelled out, so my brain

can understand. Thank you, again (also short term memory affected).

Aryana

>

> <<Hi ,

>

> I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed. I was hoping

to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have

been miserable. Can't even stay on computer very long.

> thank you for the advice. Wish I had a friend to help me with intake form.>>

>

> ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you. You've overdone

the decreases from the beginning. I would suggest raising 5 mg. to begin. You

are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on before. But

that's ok. Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you can function.

I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

>

>

> Do you know how to copy and paste? If not, ask ANYONE to show you how. You

must know someone. All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it, and

then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

>

>

>

>

> << Where will your treatment center be located?? Thank you. Aryana>>

>

>

> ** Northeastern NY.

>

> Regards,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Aryana,

I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a message privately, including the intake

form. Just hit reply to that message, enter your answers and then take out my

email address at the top and replace with:

catherine.creel@... to send to .

, I hope you don't mind as well. I think this will help her get the

information to you.

Tonya

> >

> > <<Hi ,

> >

> > I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed. I was hoping

to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have

been miserable. Can't even stay on computer very long.

> > thank you for the advice. Wish I had a friend to help me with intake

form.>>

> >

> > ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you. You've

overdone the decreases from the beginning. I would suggest raising 5 mg. to

begin. You are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on

before. But that's ok. Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you

can function. I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

> >

> >

> > Do you know how to copy and paste? If not, ask ANYONE to show you how.

You must know someone. All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it,

and then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > << Where will your treatment center be located?? Thank you. Aryana>>

> >

> >

> > ** Northeastern NY.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Aryana,

I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a message privately, including the intake

form. Just hit reply to that message, enter your answers and then take out my

email address at the top and replace with:

catherine.creel@... to send to .

, I hope you don't mind as well. I think this will help her get the

information to you.

Tonya

> >

> > <<Hi ,

> >

> > I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed. I was hoping

to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have

been miserable. Can't even stay on computer very long.

> > thank you for the advice. Wish I had a friend to help me with intake

form.>>

> >

> > ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you. You've

overdone the decreases from the beginning. I would suggest raising 5 mg. to

begin. You are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on

before. But that's ok. Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you

can function. I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

> >

> >

> > Do you know how to copy and paste? If not, ask ANYONE to show you how.

You must know someone. All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it,

and then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > << Where will your treatment center be located?? Thank you. Aryana>>

> >

> >

> > ** Northeastern NY.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Aryana,

I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a message privately, including the intake

form. Just hit reply to that message, enter your answers and then take out my

email address at the top and replace with:

catherine.creel@... to send to .

, I hope you don't mind as well. I think this will help her get the

information to you.

Tonya

> >

> > <<Hi ,

> >

> > I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed. I was hoping

to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have

been miserable. Can't even stay on computer very long.

> > thank you for the advice. Wish I had a friend to help me with intake

form.>>

> >

> > ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you. You've

overdone the decreases from the beginning. I would suggest raising 5 mg. to

begin. You are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on

before. But that's ok. Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you

can function. I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

> >

> >

> > Do you know how to copy and paste? If not, ask ANYONE to show you how.

You must know someone. All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it,

and then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > << Where will your treatment center be located?? Thank you. Aryana>>

> >

> >

> > ** Northeastern NY.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

TY, Tonya.  That was nice of you.  I'd like to see Aryana work on getting out of crisis first before she fills out the form.  A consultation now would only be repeating what I've already told her.  She can't benefit from a consultation until we get her more stable. A consult is unnecessary to do this because it is simply increasing the  dose significantly that will fix the problem.  Then, I can help her in a consultation.  Are people understanding what I mean here?  Sometimes I'm not very clear in my communication.

  -- C

Aryana,

I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a message privately, including the intake form. Just hit reply to that message, enter your answers and then take out my email address at the top and replace with:

catherine.creel@... to send to .

, I hope you don't mind as well. I think this will help her get the information to you. 

Tonya

> >

> > <<Hi ,

> >

> > I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed.  I was hoping to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have been miserable.  Can't even stay on computer very long.

> > thank you for the advice.  Wish I had a friend to help me with intake form.>>

> >

> >    ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you.  You've overdone the decreases from the beginning.  I would suggest raising 5 mg. to begin.  You are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on before.  But that's ok.  Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you can function.  I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

> >

> >

> >  Do you know how to copy and paste?  If not, ask ANYONE to show you how.  You must know someone.  All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it, and then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  << Where will your treatment center be located??   Thank you.  Aryana>>

> >

> >

> >    ** Northeastern NY.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

TY, Tonya.  That was nice of you.  I'd like to see Aryana work on getting out of crisis first before she fills out the form.  A consultation now would only be repeating what I've already told her.  She can't benefit from a consultation until we get her more stable. A consult is unnecessary to do this because it is simply increasing the  dose significantly that will fix the problem.  Then, I can help her in a consultation.  Are people understanding what I mean here?  Sometimes I'm not very clear in my communication.

  -- C

Aryana,

I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a message privately, including the intake form. Just hit reply to that message, enter your answers and then take out my email address at the top and replace with:

catherine.creel@... to send to .

, I hope you don't mind as well. I think this will help her get the information to you. 

Tonya

> >

> > <<Hi ,

> >

> > I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed.  I was hoping to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have been miserable.  Can't even stay on computer very long.

> > thank you for the advice.  Wish I had a friend to help me with intake form.>>

> >

> >    ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you.  You've overdone the decreases from the beginning.  I would suggest raising 5 mg. to begin.  You are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on before.  But that's ok.  Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you can function.  I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

> >

> >

> >  Do you know how to copy and paste?  If not, ask ANYONE to show you how.  You must know someone.  All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it, and then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  << Where will your treatment center be located??   Thank you.  Aryana>>

> >

> >

> >    ** Northeastern NY.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------

To subscribe to our off-topic Social list go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

To subscribe to our Truth-in-Health one way mailing list go to:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/truth-in-health

[Guest guest]

TY, Tonya.  That was nice of you.  I'd like to see Aryana work on getting out of crisis first before she fills out the form.  A consultation now would only be repeating what I've already told her.  She can't benefit from a consultation until we get her more stable. A consult is unnecessary to do this because it is simply increasing the  dose significantly that will fix the problem.  Then, I can help her in a consultation.  Are people understanding what I mean here?  Sometimes I'm not very clear in my communication.

  -- C

Aryana,

I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a message privately, including the intake form. Just hit reply to that message, enter your answers and then take out my email address at the top and replace with:

catherine.creel@... to send to .

, I hope you don't mind as well. I think this will help her get the information to you. 

Tonya

> >

> > <<Hi ,

> >

> > I just had such high anxiety & other sx today, that I updosed.  I was hoping to avoid that, but the 32 day hold did not yield enough relief for me, & i have been miserable.  Can't even stay on computer very long.

> > thank you for the advice.  Wish I had a friend to help me with intake form.>>

> >

> >    ** I don't think 0.5 mg increase will do anything for you.  You've overdone the decreases from the beginning.  I would suggest raising 5 mg. to begin.  You are probably going to end up close to the top dose you were on before.  But that's ok.  Do that and then we'll get you off it correctly so you can function.  I don't think it's worth raising any less than 5 mg at a time.

> >

> >

> >  Do you know how to copy and paste?  If not, ask ANYONE to show you how.  You must know someone.  All you haver to do isd highlight the document, copy it, and then paste it into a blank email. You can then fill in the answers.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  << Where will your treatment center be located??   Thank you.  Aryana>>

> >

> >

> >    ** Northeastern NY.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------

To subscribe to our off-topic Social list go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

To subscribe to our Truth-in-Health one way mailing list go to:

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[Guest guest]

I understand now, . Once the crisis mode is over, and if help is still

needed (which may not be the case at that point), I can resend the info.

Take care,

Tonya

>

> TY, Tonya. That was nice of you. I'd like to see Aryana work on getting

> out of crisis first before she fills out the form. A consultation now would

> only be repeating what I've already told her. She can't benefit from a

> consultation until we get her more stable. A consult is unnecessary to do

> this because it is simply increasing the dose significantly that will fix

> the problem. Then, I can help her in a consultation. Are people

> understanding what I mean here? Sometimes I'm not very clear in my

> communication.

>

> -- C

>

> On Sat,

[Guest guest]

  Thx!--C

I understand now, . Once the crisis mode is over, and if help is still needed (which may not be the case at that point), I can resend the info.

Take care,

Tonya

>

> TY, Tonya.  That was nice of you.  I'd like to see Aryana work on getting

> out of crisis first before she fills out the form.  A consultation now would

> only be repeating what I've already told her.  She can't benefit from a

> consultation until we get her more stable. A consult is unnecessary to do

> this because it is simply increasing the  dose significantly that will fix

> the problem.  Then, I can help her in a consultation.  Are people

> understanding what I mean here?  Sometimes I'm not very clear in my

> communication.

>

>   -- C

>

> On Sat,

------------------------------------

To subscribe to our off-topic Social list go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I understand that Aryana need to get out of crisis before a consultation

could benefit her. That is very clear. But... I've been in contact

with her privately, and I think part of the problem is that she doesn't

understand how increasing the dose is going to help her and she's

terrified that she may increase the dose and not feel any better. I

think the reason for that is because she was having the same symptoms

she has now _before _she even started to taper. This is a quote from

one of her posts -- " I have never felt really good or functional, as I

was in tolerance withdrawal to begin with. " You stated " Going back to

the last dose you were on before you began to feel poorly is what will

fix this. " But how can this work if she felt poorly when she was on the

full dose?

I hope I'm getting my concern across clearly. This seems like a valid

point to me. I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt. I just want to

help. I suggested Aryana join this group because I don't know of anyone

that is better qualified to help her than you, . :-) But

right now, she's very confused and doesn't know who to trust.

Nance>>

** Nance, she can do it because she didn't feel THIS poorly on the drug. I

really have nothing more to say about it. I've tried. I'm not here to hold

hands. I give info and people act on it or not. Everyone is afraid at first.

But one should also be afraid to remain like this -- very afraid.

Trust is difficult. There is always risk to it. I am not about to try to

convince someone to trust me. I give the info and I hope that their common sense

will kick in. ly, as a naturopathic practitioner, Aryana should be able

to sort out what recommendation makes the most sense. I should have to say less

with her than most others. Instead it is the opposite.

Let's also be logical here. If a person doesn't want to do anything

differently, why write such a great amount about it to another person?

I know the answer to this; I've seen it repeatedly. People want an answer they

like. When the answer is frightening or displeasing, they repeat themselves, add

a little more, and repeat this, and continue to ask the same questions all in

hoping to get a more pleasing response.

No amount of added symptoms will change what is happening for her and how to

stop it. I will not magically offer a solution more pleasing.

Also, Aryana is " solution shopping " . This means she has at least 2 other

people addressing this case with her. This makes at least 3 people now who are

hearing all this and spending time and energy on it. There's nothing wrong with

this but at some point, it can become a one way street where one person is

taking energy from several others without giving any in return (taking some

action would qualify as returning energy).

I have already given this far too much time and energy when I don't have it to

spare. I have nothing new to add and you'll never find me here coaxing people.

Recovery from psych drugs is a challenging endeavor. Those who cannot even take

the first step to feel better are not ready for the true business of recovery.

It doesn't matter to me what people choose to do. I have no investment in

people's choices. I plant seeds, that's it. I've planted my seeds here. It's

time for me to move on and get to people who haven't yet received the amount of

info I've already given in this case.

One final thing -- what is the big deal? It's Valium, not heroin. If what I

say will happen doesn't, Aryana can always just drop it down again. But I can

tell you one thing 100% -- she will not feel any worse than she does right now

if she increases the Valium closer to her original dose. I know she will feel

much better if she raises it enough. 0.5 mg (that she raised)wouldn't make any

difference for even a child.

This is my last post on this topic unless something moves forward. My time

and energy is precious to me and I need to not squander it.

If you understand Aryana, Nance, perhaps you can explain it to her instead of

explaining it to me. Regardless of who says what to me, it will not change my

advice in this situation.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Trust is difficult. There is always risk to it.**To find why trust is easier here, you only have to look back into the archives to see 's work and the people she has helped get their lives back. That speaks for itself and it is not something your doctor will show you. We blindly trust doctors, but why when they have let most of us down so badly do we sometimes continue to believe they still know something that can help us? We need to shift our mindsets , and take responsibility for our health.I hope you can find that trust Aryana like so many have before you. No one discounts your fear, we have all been there, but for something to change you have to be brave and do things differently.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for such a detailed reply explaining your position very

clearly. I'm sorry you had to take the time to write all this.

These parts of your reply completely answered my question -- "she

can do it because she didn't feel THIS poorly on the drug" and "If

what I say will happen doesn't, Aryana can always just drop it down

again. But I can tell you one thing 100% -- she will not feel any

worse than she does right now if she increases the Valium closer to

her original dose. I know she will feel much better if she raises it

enough".

I understand and respect your position on this. I wasn't trying to

get you to change your advise -- just wanted to try one more time to

help Aryana understand it. :-)

So glad to hear you've opened a clinic. So many lives will be

helped, probably even saved!

Warmest regards,

Nance

Hi ,

.... ... ...But how can this work if she felt poorly when

she was on the

full dose? ... ... ...

Nance>>

** Nance, she can do it because she didn't feel THIS

poorly on the drug. I really have nothing more to say

about it. I've tried. I'm not here to hold hands. I give

info and people act on it or not. Everyone is afraid at

first. But one should also be afraid to remain like this

-- very afraid. ... ... ... ...

Regards,