anybody titrating using klonopin? (w/response)

[Guest guest]

" joelley " writes:

<<Hi, I would like to talk to anyone coming off klonopin. I am looking to hear

from people who are titrating klonopin and how you are doing.

I am currently dry cutting the klonopin, but know I will have to switch to

titration to ensure a smoother taper. I am at 2.5mg and cutting .125mg every 2

weeks. I have been on this medication since 2000, and was at 6mg Feb 2011.

Thanks in advance for anyone's input.

le>>

** Hi le,

This is an issue that comes up from time to time. Prior to beginning

this group I saw people in other groups repeatedly following each other in how

they approached drug withdrawal. This resulted in much more harm than good. I

wanted a place where people could go where they wouldn't be getting advice from

everyone who has ever taken the same drug. A person who has taken Klonopin has

little to offer another. Personal experiences are dependent on biochemistry,

other drugs being taken, how much damage has been done over time, the P450

enzymes (and amounts) each possesses (each person is different this way). It is

also quite subjective.

I became tired of seeing people act on the advice of anyone out of desperation

and then beg for help fixing what went wrong when they acted with no knowledge

of what they were doing. This is why I opened this group.

You'll find this to be different from most groups. It's not a " chat " group.

I tried leaving it open to this but found I had to spend hours a day correcting

what people were telling others that could potentially result in harm. To make

better use of my time and to not confuse people, I decided to avoid discussions

about drugs between people. This reduces the misinformation without taking

hours from life to do it.

There's really very little difference in Klonopin and most benzodiazepines.

The biggest difference is half-life. Surprisingly, Valium may be the easiest

one of all to discontinue. It's really not necessary to find out specifically

around Klonopin withdrawal. If you blocked the names of the drugs, other drugs

would seem like Klonopin and Klonopin would seem like other drugs.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

le Carmichael writes:

<<Oka,

  Can I then ask you what you would recommend, as you said in the last post,

that titration would be an option. I am not sure where to start, as you said,

" Get rid of the Calendar, " and go by how your body feels. "   Oka, but I still

need some guidance about how to first draw out my first cut. For example, I know

you said not to go by percentages, but I think after reading about titration, I

need to have some sort of temporary schedule, in order to know what dose I

should be taking out. I know this would be different for each person, but if

possible, do you have any suggestions about what kind of cut is realistic when

doing titration? 

Sorry if I am being a pain, I am just worried and don't want to go into

titration blindly, without some kind of idea about the amount I should be

withdrawing from at first!

Thanks again, for all your feedback.>>

** It's not clear to me what decreases you've been doing. We generally

recommend 5-10% reductions. If you give me a clear chart of how much you began

with and what your reductions were over what period of time, I can tell you what

will fit best with what you've already done.

Example:

5/11/2008 -- began Valium 10 mg 3x a day. Total 30mg.

10/10/2010 -10% decrease; 1 mg. from each dose making each dose 9 mg. Total

reduction 3 mg. Total daily dose 27 mg.

Waited until I felt as well as I felt prior to this decrease then did the

next decrease. Used this method each time.

11/4/2010 -- 10% decrease; 0.9 mg from each dose. Did this by using a liquid

titration (and all doses hereafter). Total reduction 2.7 mg. Total dose 24.3 mg.

12/09/2010 -- 10% decrease; 0.81 from each dose [you don't have to be exact

with this. You can do 0.80 or even 0.75 with no serious consequences]. Total

reduction 2.43mg. Total daily dose 21.87 mg.

1/21/2011 -- 10% decrease (last one was tougher than I want it to be with

having to work daily). 0.73 mg. from each dose making each dose 6.33 mg.

Total daily reduction 2.18 mg. Total daily dose 19 mg (approx).

You could simplify it more:

12/09/2010 -- 10% reduction (from each dose) -- 0.81mg. Dose 6.33 3x day.

Some people are more comfortable with smaller decreases. Most people find

they can jump around doing 10% at times, 5% at others, 7% here and there.

You'll come to know your body and be able to adjust your dose to suit you best.

As far as extending the assimilation with milk, this is illogical. The idea

is to get off the drug, not to tease out of it all the effects you can. If you

are reacting too much to a decrease the decrease can be made smaller. The

bottom line is nothing is gained by extending the half-life of the drug. In

fact, it may actually hinder the withdrawal. While I realize the idea of using

fats for drug assimilation was from a well-meaning place, it reminds me of

tricks used by junkies. Again, I know that hint people pass around comes from a

place of wanting to help. But I think it is truly of any help.

Does this help?

Regards,

[Guest guest]

le Carmichael writes:

<<Oka,

  Can I then ask you what you would recommend, as you said in the last post,

that titration would be an option. I am not sure where to start, as you said,

" Get rid of the Calendar, " and go by how your body feels. "   Oka, but I still

need some guidance about how to first draw out my first cut. For example, I know

you said not to go by percentages, but I think after reading about titration, I

need to have some sort of temporary schedule, in order to know what dose I

should be taking out. I know this would be different for each person, but if

possible, do you have any suggestions about what kind of cut is realistic when

doing titration? 

Sorry if I am being a pain, I am just worried and don't want to go into

titration blindly, without some kind of idea about the amount I should be

withdrawing from at first!

Thanks again, for all your feedback.>>

** It's not clear to me what decreases you've been doing. We generally

recommend 5-10% reductions. If you give me a clear chart of how much you began

with and what your reductions were over what period of time, I can tell you what

will fit best with what you've already done.

Example:

5/11/2008 -- began Valium 10 mg 3x a day. Total 30mg.

10/10/2010 -10% decrease; 1 mg. from each dose making each dose 9 mg. Total

reduction 3 mg. Total daily dose 27 mg.

Waited until I felt as well as I felt prior to this decrease then did the

next decrease. Used this method each time.

11/4/2010 -- 10% decrease; 0.9 mg from each dose. Did this by using a liquid

titration (and all doses hereafter). Total reduction 2.7 mg. Total dose 24.3 mg.

12/09/2010 -- 10% decrease; 0.81 from each dose [you don't have to be exact

with this. You can do 0.80 or even 0.75 with no serious consequences]. Total

reduction 2.43mg. Total daily dose 21.87 mg.

1/21/2011 -- 10% decrease (last one was tougher than I want it to be with

having to work daily). 0.73 mg. from each dose making each dose 6.33 mg.

Total daily reduction 2.18 mg. Total daily dose 19 mg (approx).

You could simplify it more:

12/09/2010 -- 10% reduction (from each dose) -- 0.81mg. Dose 6.33 3x day.

Some people are more comfortable with smaller decreases. Most people find

they can jump around doing 10% at times, 5% at others, 7% here and there.

You'll come to know your body and be able to adjust your dose to suit you best.

As far as extending the assimilation with milk, this is illogical. The idea

is to get off the drug, not to tease out of it all the effects you can. If you

are reacting too much to a decrease the decrease can be made smaller. The

bottom line is nothing is gained by extending the half-life of the drug. In

fact, it may actually hinder the withdrawal. While I realize the idea of using

fats for drug assimilation was from a well-meaning place, it reminds me of

tricks used by junkies. Again, I know that hint people pass around comes from a

place of wanting to help. But I think it is truly of any help.

Does this help?

Regards,

[Guest guest]

le Carmichael writes:

<<Alright, I will be as specific as I can about my cuts so far:

Jan 2010-Jan2011- taking 6mg of clonozepam daily, prior to this was increased to

6mg by 2 other psychiatrists, and my GP that took from year 2000, to 2010.

Jan 14th 2011-Feb 14th 2011- cold turkeyed all meds and went into acute

withdrawal. Doctor in hospital reinstated clonazepam to 3mg at bedtime and 1mg

in the morning, along with 200mg trazadone and 40mg remeron.

After release from hospital, no remaining symptoms.

February 25th, 2011- 3mg clonazepam at night and dose reduction to .5mg in

morning.

No symptoms

March 28th, 2011- doctor reduced clonazepam to 3mg at night and .25 in morning.

No symptoms

May 15th, 2011 - doctor reduced only clonazepam 3mg at night, no morning dose.

I held here until January 2012.

The reason, I was afraid to reduce dose further, and was unable to see doctor in

June or July as I went away and stayed with family.

October 25th, 2011- Doctor decided she wanted me to stay at the clonazepam dose

and reduced remeron to 22.25mg and kept trazadone to 200mg.

January 28th, 2012- I went to doctor and told her that holding was not doing me

any good, after researching how to taper, told her I wanted to try cutting by

..125mg every two weeks and see how that went.  She agreed. 

Jan 28th- Feb 10th, 2012- 2.875mg.  No symptoms.

February 11th- Feb 24th, 2012- dry cut to 2.75mg, no symptoms

Feb 25th- March 8th 2012- dry cut to 2.625mg, no symptoms

March 9th- present- dry cut to 2.5mg, some increased morning anxiety, no other

symptoms.

I am thinking based on the site information that putting the tabs in water would

be sufficient to complete the rest of my taper?

le>>

** Not necessarily water but any liquid that works.

The Remeron and Trazodone have allowed you to get as far as you have with no

symptoms of which to speak.

It's too bad you stopped reducing for so long. There's never any reason to

worry. Nothing is written in stone. If you can't handle the reduction you go up

again, stabilize, then do a smaller decrease. A difficult withdrawal can be

fixed within an hour by increasing the drug. It will never be like it was

before because this is not a cold turkey withdrawal.

I would still recommend following your body instead of the calendar. At some

point, going by the calendar will not work for you .

Regards,

[Guest guest]

le Carmichael writes:

<<Alright, I will be as specific as I can about my cuts so far:

Jan 2010-Jan2011- taking 6mg of clonozepam daily, prior to this was increased to

6mg by 2 other psychiatrists, and my GP that took from year 2000, to 2010.

Jan 14th 2011-Feb 14th 2011- cold turkeyed all meds and went into acute

withdrawal. Doctor in hospital reinstated clonazepam to 3mg at bedtime and 1mg

in the morning, along with 200mg trazadone and 40mg remeron.

After release from hospital, no remaining symptoms.

February 25th, 2011- 3mg clonazepam at night and dose reduction to .5mg in

morning.

No symptoms

March 28th, 2011- doctor reduced clonazepam to 3mg at night and .25 in morning.

No symptoms

May 15th, 2011 - doctor reduced only clonazepam 3mg at night, no morning dose.

I held here until January 2012.

The reason, I was afraid to reduce dose further, and was unable to see doctor in

June or July as I went away and stayed with family.

October 25th, 2011- Doctor decided she wanted me to stay at the clonazepam dose

and reduced remeron to 22.25mg and kept trazadone to 200mg.

January 28th, 2012- I went to doctor and told her that holding was not doing me

any good, after researching how to taper, told her I wanted to try cutting by

..125mg every two weeks and see how that went.  She agreed. 

Jan 28th- Feb 10th, 2012- 2.875mg.  No symptoms.

February 11th- Feb 24th, 2012- dry cut to 2.75mg, no symptoms

Feb 25th- March 8th 2012- dry cut to 2.625mg, no symptoms

March 9th- present- dry cut to 2.5mg, some increased morning anxiety, no other

symptoms.

I am thinking based on the site information that putting the tabs in water would

be sufficient to complete the rest of my taper?

le>>

** Not necessarily water but any liquid that works.

The Remeron and Trazodone have allowed you to get as far as you have with no

symptoms of which to speak.

It's too bad you stopped reducing for so long. There's never any reason to

worry. Nothing is written in stone. If you can't handle the reduction you go up

again, stabilize, then do a smaller decrease. A difficult withdrawal can be

fixed within an hour by increasing the drug. It will never be like it was

before because this is not a cold turkey withdrawal.

I would still recommend following your body instead of the calendar. At some

point, going by the calendar will not work for you .

Regards,

[Guest guest]

le Carmichael writes:

<<Alright, I will be as specific as I can about my cuts so far:

Jan 2010-Jan2011- taking 6mg of clonozepam daily, prior to this was increased to

6mg by 2 other psychiatrists, and my GP that took from year 2000, to 2010.

Jan 14th 2011-Feb 14th 2011- cold turkeyed all meds and went into acute

withdrawal. Doctor in hospital reinstated clonazepam to 3mg at bedtime and 1mg

in the morning, along with 200mg trazadone and 40mg remeron.

After release from hospital, no remaining symptoms.

February 25th, 2011- 3mg clonazepam at night and dose reduction to .5mg in

morning.

No symptoms

March 28th, 2011- doctor reduced clonazepam to 3mg at night and .25 in morning.

No symptoms

May 15th, 2011 - doctor reduced only clonazepam 3mg at night, no morning dose.

I held here until January 2012.

The reason, I was afraid to reduce dose further, and was unable to see doctor in

June or July as I went away and stayed with family.

October 25th, 2011- Doctor decided she wanted me to stay at the clonazepam dose

and reduced remeron to 22.25mg and kept trazadone to 200mg.

January 28th, 2012- I went to doctor and told her that holding was not doing me

any good, after researching how to taper, told her I wanted to try cutting by

..125mg every two weeks and see how that went.  She agreed. 

Jan 28th- Feb 10th, 2012- 2.875mg.  No symptoms.

February 11th- Feb 24th, 2012- dry cut to 2.75mg, no symptoms

Feb 25th- March 8th 2012- dry cut to 2.625mg, no symptoms

March 9th- present- dry cut to 2.5mg, some increased morning anxiety, no other

symptoms.

I am thinking based on the site information that putting the tabs in water would

be sufficient to complete the rest of my taper?

le>>

** Not necessarily water but any liquid that works.

The Remeron and Trazodone have allowed you to get as far as you have with no

symptoms of which to speak.

It's too bad you stopped reducing for so long. There's never any reason to

worry. Nothing is written in stone. If you can't handle the reduction you go up

again, stabilize, then do a smaller decrease. A difficult withdrawal can be

fixed within an hour by increasing the drug. It will never be like it was

before because this is not a cold turkey withdrawal.

I would still recommend following your body instead of the calendar. At some

point, going by the calendar will not work for you .

Regards,