Guest guest Posted March 15, 2002 Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 I wanted to see what you all think. Do you think it's better to be on more metformin and be able to eat 100 carbs a day or be on less metformin and eat less carbs? My situation is that when I have 30 or less carbs a day I can stay in the normal range. But I have stomach problems eating this way and severe problems sticking with it for more than a week at a time. The nutritionist wants me to eat 100 carbs a day and just take more metformin. I don't know what to do. Jorjana O'Bannon Western Coordinator Chihuahua Rescue and Transport www.chihuahua-rescue.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 JMHO, but I think the most important thing is for you to find a routine that works for YOU and that you can live with over the long haul. Getting your BG under control and keeping it there is the goal. Christy > I wanted to see what you all think. > > Do you think it's better to be on more metformin and be able to eat 100 carbs a day or be on less metformin and eat less carbs? > > My situation is that when I have 30 or less carbs a day I can stay in the normal range. But I have stomach problems eating this way and severe problems sticking with it for more than a week at a time. > > The nutritionist wants me to eat 100 carbs a day and just take more metformin. > > I don't know what to do. > > Jorjana O'Bannon > Western Coordinator > Chihuahua Rescue and Transport > www.chihuahua-rescue.org > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 I believe the less meds the better, but I have been on three medications in the last 2 years that were outlawed and I still don't know if that is what casued my problems. What I have been doing is not taking the Glucophage the days that I eat less than 20 carbs a day and taking it when I know I am going to cheat like going to a party. But, it is very difficult, so I think it is up to the individual. Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 Thanks Barb this will help me also. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 The nutritionist wants me to eat 100 carbs a day and just take more metformin. >>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is to eat less carbs. . .I take 2000 metaformin and 5 Glybrude every day and still can't get down. When I went to bed last night, I was 66 and when I woke up this morning I was 185. I ate two Graham Crackers and drank 4 oz. of skim mild just before going to bed. Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 Jorjana, I think you have to do what's right for you. If you're truly suffering (stomach troubles, cravings), perhaps you should try the alternative. Obviously the first most important thing is to gain control and lose weight, if you need to. Once control is gained and weight is lost, improving insulin resistance, then maybe you can try with less or no meds again. I believe that good control is the most important and I'm not a fan of drugs, but I think whatever works for each of us to get started is the obvious choice. JMHO, Barb......not a doc > I wanted to see what you all think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 Jorjana, I think you have to do what's right for you. If you're truly suffering (stomach troubles, cravings), perhaps you should try the alternative. Obviously the first most important thing is to gain control and lose weight, if you need to. Once control is gained and weight is lost, improving insulin resistance, then maybe you can try with less or no meds again. I believe that good control is the most important and I'm not a fan of drugs, but I think whatever works for each of us to get started is the obvious choice. JMHO, Barb......not a doc > I wanted to see what you all think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 > My guess is to eat less carbs. . .I take 2000 metaformin and 5 Glybrude > every day and still can't get down. When I went to bed last night, I was 66 > and when I woke up this morning I was 185. I ate two Graham Crackers and > drank 4 oz. of skim mild just before going to bed. **Art, you're not going to get it down, if you keep eating this many carbs. I'm guessing you are extremely insulin resistant and overweight with lots of circulating insulin, and your uncontrolled high bg's are working against you. 1 oz. of graham cracker = 21.8 g. high glycemic carbs - I dont' knwo how many oz. are in 2 graham crackers. 4 oz skim milk = 6 g. carb and both of these are high glycemic. Do the math - multiply by a 5 point rise per gram of carb. If you have to have a bedtime snack, try a piece of cheese instead, and see what happens. My guess for you is to eat way less carbs. In addition, your NPH peaks around 2-4 am, and if you're going low then, your 180 in the morning could be a result of rebounding. In other words the high carb intake at bedtime, equals a glucose spike and consequent low from both the spike and the NPH, which means a glucose dump from the liver + morning rise can easily = 180 or better. It's probably a good idea to try something different. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 high carb intake at bedtime, equals a glucose spike and consequent low from both the spike and the NPH, which means >>>>>>>>>>>> What's NPH? All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't understand. Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 I'm guessing you are extremely insulin resistant and overweight with lots of >>>>>>>>>>>>> I genuinely don't know what you mean by insulin resistant, but you are right about my weight. Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 I'm guessing you are extremely insulin resistant and overweight with lots of >>>>>>>>>>>>> I genuinely don't know what you mean by insulin resistant, but you are right about my weight. Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 <<All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't understand.>> It worked for me for several years and then everything just seemed to stop working. I think we have a ticking clock on the carbs and we start eating the carbs and taking the meds and our blood looks good and then it just seems to get worse and worse. Then you wake up one morning and you have to decide to take insulin or really start cutting the carbs, hoping to rebuild your damaged body. It took 8 years for me and I used to could eat anything that said sugar free and not even worry about the carbs, then time ran out. That's my explanation, but others may have a better one. Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 <<All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't understand.>> It worked for me for several years and then everything just seemed to stop working. I think we have a ticking clock on the carbs and we start eating the carbs and taking the meds and our blood looks good and then it just seems to get worse and worse. Then you wake up one morning and you have to decide to take insulin or really start cutting the carbs, hoping to rebuild your damaged body. It took 8 years for me and I used to could eat anything that said sugar free and not even worry about the carbs, then time ran out. That's my explanation, but others may have a better one. Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 <<I genuinely don't know what you mean by insulin resistant, but you are right about my weight.>> Insulin resistant is what all type 2's are. Some make insulin OK and some don't, but insulin resistance has nothing to do with this. It is when you have plenty of insulin in the body, either you make it yourself or you take insulin injections, but the cells won't accept it. You just can't use it. You will use a tiny bit, but that is all. Your liver won't process the insulin, then your muscle cells won't process the insulin, then you fat cells won't process the insulin. My blood sugar reached 425 and they said you have got 2 weeks or you are on insulin, but we will have to give you enormous amounts and that will really worsen your heart condition, because excess insulin in the body makes tryglicerides and etc, etc, That scarred the hell out of me and I got started immediately, but that wasn't really what scarred me the most. What scarred me the most was that my ankles were so swollen, they looked at watermellons, I was so aftraid I would never be able to wear sandals and show off my teeny, tiny ankles and they are teeny tiney. It is just amazing how they hold up a 50 pound belly (LOL) Aren't we so vain about some stupid stuff. I hope I answered your question. Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2002 Report Share Posted March 17, 2002 <<I genuinely don't know what you mean by insulin resistant, but you are right about my weight.>> Insulin resistant is what all type 2's are. Some make insulin OK and some don't, but insulin resistance has nothing to do with this. It is when you have plenty of insulin in the body, either you make it yourself or you take insulin injections, but the cells won't accept it. You just can't use it. You will use a tiny bit, but that is all. Your liver won't process the insulin, then your muscle cells won't process the insulin, then you fat cells won't process the insulin. My blood sugar reached 425 and they said you have got 2 weeks or you are on insulin, but we will have to give you enormous amounts and that will really worsen your heart condition, because excess insulin in the body makes tryglicerides and etc, etc, That scarred the hell out of me and I got started immediately, but that wasn't really what scarred me the most. What scarred me the most was that my ankles were so swollen, they looked at watermellons, I was so aftraid I would never be able to wear sandals and show off my teeny, tiny ankles and they are teeny tiney. It is just amazing how they hold up a 50 pound belly (LOL) Aren't we so vain about some stupid stuff. I hope I answered your question. Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Jorjana O'Bannon wrote: > > I wanted to see what you all think. > > Do you think it's better to be on more metformin and be able to eat 100 carbs a day or be on less metformin and eat less carbs? > > My situation is that when I have 30 or less carbs a day I can stay in the normal range. But I have stomach problems eating this way and severe problems sticking with it for more than a week at a time. > > The nutritionist wants me to eat 100 carbs a day and just take more metformin. > > I don't know what to do. > > Jorjana O'Bannon > Western Coordinator > Chihuahua Rescue and Transport > www.chihuahua-rescue.org Your first priority is to get your bg's controlled in the " normal " range and keep them there. That is your best chance for avoiding complications. However you accomplish that is secondary. You need to find what you can do as a WOE and WOL for the long-term. If that means more carbs & more medicine, then so be it. There is no one right answer for all of us. You say you have stomach problems at 30grams per day, but you don't say what those problems are. Are you getting sufficient fiber? Lots of low GI vegies can help with that and supplemental psyllium if needed. Are the stomach issues the reason you can't stay on it more than a week? Or is it that you are hungry and/or have cravings? My personal preference is to use the least drugs possible, but that is just my personal bias regarding the fact that they all have some undesireable side-effects, and may not work in the long-term. I have heard numerous anecdotes about Glucophage decreasing in effectiveness as time passes. Lower carb intake means less required meds, and that is the primary reason that I am on an LC WOE for almost 4 years now. If you are going to choose the higher carb option, you should certainly choose those carbs based on their GI, and avoid all those high GI carbs (MHO). Sorry for all the questions, but thought more information would help me make a more intelligent response. , T2 Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Jorjana O'Bannon wrote: > > I wanted to see what you all think. > > Do you think it's better to be on more metformin and be able to eat 100 carbs a day or be on less metformin and eat less carbs? > > My situation is that when I have 30 or less carbs a day I can stay in the normal range. But I have stomach problems eating this way and severe problems sticking with it for more than a week at a time. > > The nutritionist wants me to eat 100 carbs a day and just take more metformin. > > I don't know what to do. > > Jorjana O'Bannon > Western Coordinator > Chihuahua Rescue and Transport > www.chihuahua-rescue.org Your first priority is to get your bg's controlled in the " normal " range and keep them there. That is your best chance for avoiding complications. However you accomplish that is secondary. You need to find what you can do as a WOE and WOL for the long-term. If that means more carbs & more medicine, then so be it. There is no one right answer for all of us. You say you have stomach problems at 30grams per day, but you don't say what those problems are. Are you getting sufficient fiber? Lots of low GI vegies can help with that and supplemental psyllium if needed. Are the stomach issues the reason you can't stay on it more than a week? Or is it that you are hungry and/or have cravings? My personal preference is to use the least drugs possible, but that is just my personal bias regarding the fact that they all have some undesireable side-effects, and may not work in the long-term. I have heard numerous anecdotes about Glucophage decreasing in effectiveness as time passes. Lower carb intake means less required meds, and that is the primary reason that I am on an LC WOE for almost 4 years now. If you are going to choose the higher carb option, you should certainly choose those carbs based on their GI, and avoid all those high GI carbs (MHO). Sorry for all the questions, but thought more information would help me make a more intelligent response. , T2 Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Art, I eat a graham cracker most nights for my snack, and my BG in the morning is in the 70s or 80s. Before bedtime snacking I was hitting the 120s in the morning. But I eat it with a thin spread of low fat peanut butter, to mix in some fat and some protein for slower absorbtion. I don't drink milk with it, but that's mainly because I don't particularly like milk. One graham cracker is about 11 grams of carb. The peanut butter adds about 6 more grams. Of course, everyone is different. You'll need to experiment to see what works best for you, but you might try adding some protein and fat to your snack. Christy > high carb intake at bedtime, equals a glucose spike and consequent low from > both the spike and the NPH, which means > >>>>>>>>>>>> > What's NPH? All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were > an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning > than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't > understand. > Art > > > Art Mc > moseart@e... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 Art, I eat a graham cracker most nights for my snack, and my BG in the morning is in the 70s or 80s. Before bedtime snacking I was hitting the 120s in the morning. But I eat it with a thin spread of low fat peanut butter, to mix in some fat and some protein for slower absorbtion. I don't drink milk with it, but that's mainly because I don't particularly like milk. One graham cracker is about 11 grams of carb. The peanut butter adds about 6 more grams. Of course, everyone is different. You'll need to experiment to see what works best for you, but you might try adding some protein and fat to your snack. Christy > high carb intake at bedtime, equals a glucose spike and consequent low from > both the spike and the NPH, which means > >>>>>>>>>>>> > What's NPH? All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were > an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning > than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't > understand. > Art > > > Art Mc > moseart@e... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 > What's NPH? All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were > an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning > than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't > understand. **Didn't you say you were on NPH insulin, Art? Perhaps I misremembering. In that case, nevermind the NPH 2-4am spike, but the rest of the post can be true. Plus, this is a degenerative disease, and I believe that eating many carbs, spiking your blood sugar (are you testing at an hour after your night time snack?), making your pancreas produce insulin, having excess circulating insulin, which turns to fat, is one big spiral. It may work for awhile, but as all this starts damaging the beta cells in your pancreas, it'll take more meds/less carbs to achieve control. Insulin resistance is a condition in 75% of type II's that does not allow insulin to penetrate the cells, and therefore it can't be used. Art, you need to read a couple of the books that have been recommended. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 > What's NPH? All the months I was in the hospital the crackers and milk were > an every night thing and my sugars have never been better in the morning > than they were then. Don't think I'm arguing with you, I just don't > understand. **Didn't you say you were on NPH insulin, Art? Perhaps I misremembering. In that case, nevermind the NPH 2-4am spike, but the rest of the post can be true. Plus, this is a degenerative disease, and I believe that eating many carbs, spiking your blood sugar (are you testing at an hour after your night time snack?), making your pancreas produce insulin, having excess circulating insulin, which turns to fat, is one big spiral. It may work for awhile, but as all this starts damaging the beta cells in your pancreas, it'll take more meds/less carbs to achieve control. Insulin resistance is a condition in 75% of type II's that does not allow insulin to penetrate the cells, and therefore it can't be used. Art, you need to read a couple of the books that have been recommended. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 more information >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I got " my mind blown " this morning. I was cooking two eggs and dropped one piece of whole wheat bread in the toaster. While it was toasting I looked at the label. 27 carbs in ONE slice. When it cooled off I gave it to one of my dogs (dog is not diabetic)<G>. That was an eye opener for me. . . I ate the eggs with coffee, no milk either. Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 more information >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I got " my mind blown " this morning. I was cooking two eggs and dropped one piece of whole wheat bread in the toaster. While it was toasting I looked at the label. 27 carbs in ONE slice. When it cooled off I gave it to one of my dogs (dog is not diabetic)<G>. That was an eye opener for me. . . I ate the eggs with coffee, no milk either. Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 You'll need to experiment to see what works best for you, but you might try adding some protein and fat to your snack. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Last night I ate a couple of thin slices of lunch meat and a slice of cheese before bed. My BG this morning was 125. . . . 25-50 points lower than it normally is in the morning:-) Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2002 Report Share Posted March 18, 2002 You'll need to experiment to see what works best for you, but you might try adding some protein and fat to your snack. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Last night I ate a couple of thin slices of lunch meat and a slice of cheese before bed. My BG this morning was 125. . . . 25-50 points lower than it normally is in the morning:-) Art Art Mc moseart@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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