Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

[Guest guest]

That is a good figure. Was the biopsy ordered originally because a lump was felt by the Dr. or nurse performing the DRE examination. 1.43 PSA by itself would not have been justification for ordering a biopsy. Anything less than 0.1 is consider to be non-measurable.

Louis. . .

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response.

My cancer was initially detected by my primary care doc via DRE.

My 0.06 figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml threshold. Or am I mistaken?

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

Hi .

..06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

"il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

per milliliter.

I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

See Strum SB et al., " Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy. "

Oncologist 2000;5(1):45-52.

Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

Medicine.

The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

" Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

for better selection of those best suited for IAD. "

Regards,

Steve J

[Guest guest]

Steve:

Thank you for your response. I also want to express my appreciation for the

education you and others on the list have given me through your postings.

It is appreciated very much.

Let me make sure I understand my PSA reading and various thresholds. The

numerical reference is in ng/ml and this is a universal and standard

notation. It is generally considered troubling if PSA is above 2.5 ng/ml

(or perhaps 4.00 ng/ml., depending upon one's age and perhaps mitigated by

one's body weight). My presurgical PSA was 1.43, and such a reading is

routinely expressed in ng/ml. In the same frame of reference, my reading is

now 0.06 ng/ml. The undetectable level is 0.05 ng/ml or below. Do I have

it right?

Stated another way, the following comment I made in a previous posting is

incorrect, and is a misinterpretation of my situation It is not necessary

for me to reposition the decimal point to get ng/ml. I wrote: " My 0.06

(PSA) figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the

measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml

threshold. Or am I mistaken? "

Again, thank you for your response and for the knowledge you and others have

shared about this cancer.

Sincerely,

Coy

Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

>

>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

>

> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

>

> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

> per milliliter.

>

> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

>

> See Strum SB et al., " Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy. "

> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45-52.

>

> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

>

> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

> Medicine.

>

> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

> " Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

> for better selection of those best suited for IAD. "

>

> Regards,

>

> Steve J

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Steve:

Thank you for your response. I also want to express my appreciation for the

education you and others on the list have given me through your postings.

It is appreciated very much.

Let me make sure I understand my PSA reading and various thresholds. The

numerical reference is in ng/ml and this is a universal and standard

notation. It is generally considered troubling if PSA is above 2.5 ng/ml

(or perhaps 4.00 ng/ml., depending upon one's age and perhaps mitigated by

one's body weight). My presurgical PSA was 1.43, and such a reading is

routinely expressed in ng/ml. In the same frame of reference, my reading is

now 0.06 ng/ml. The undetectable level is 0.05 ng/ml or below. Do I have

it right?

Stated another way, the following comment I made in a previous posting is

incorrect, and is a misinterpretation of my situation It is not necessary

for me to reposition the decimal point to get ng/ml. I wrote: " My 0.06

(PSA) figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the

measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml

threshold. Or am I mistaken? "

Again, thank you for your response and for the knowledge you and others have

shared about this cancer.

Sincerely,

Coy

Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

>

>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

>

> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

>

> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

> per milliliter.

>

> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

>

> See Strum SB et al., " Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy. "

> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45-52.

>

> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

>

> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

> Medicine.

>

> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

> " Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

> for better selection of those best suited for IAD. "

>

> Regards,

>

> Steve J

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response. It is appreciated, very much.

Coy

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response. It is appreciated, very much.

Coy

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

You need to check with the lab. You may wish to have the PSA test redone. If the same lab does the test and the six month out figure shows no increase, then I would tend to thing the 0.06 is really the figure, not 0.6. I thought that .1 was the limit of significance of measurability.

Louis. . .

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

You need to check with the lab. You may wish to have the PSA test redone. If the same lab does the test and the six month out figure shows no increase, then I would tend to thing the 0.06 is really the figure, not 0.6. I thought that .1 was the limit of significance of measurability.

Louis. . .

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

I am getting an order to have the test redone. I'll find out if they are using the ultrasensitive test. I think they are, but I will find out for sure. My Uro is sending me a copy of the report along with the order. They were looking for me to have a totally undetectable score - 0.01 or less. He's a very conservative guy.

Coy

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

I am getting an order to have the test redone. I'll find out if they are using the ultrasensitive test. I think they are, but I will find out for sure. My Uro is sending me a copy of the report along with the order. They were looking for me to have a totally undetectable score - 0.01 or less. He's a very conservative guy.

Coy

Disheartening Post surgical PSA

It's been three months since my surgery, and blood was drawn yesterday morning (9/10) for my first PSA since surgery. I called my Uro's staff yesterday afternoon, and they advised my PSA came back at 0.06. Presurgery, it was 1.43.

My surgery was June 11th. It was a standard open retropubic procedure. Gleason from the final pathology was 3 + 3. My cancer was staged at T2B NO MX. Three cancerous spots - 5% of the gland was involved. All surgical margins were favorable. Lymph nodes were clear. Both sets of nerves were spared. The pre-surgical bone scan and pre-surgical CT scan were both clear.

At this point, I'm very discouraged and more than a little panic-stricken. I'm out-of-town and away from home until Sunday. Even so, via my cell phone, I expect to hear something more detailed from the Uro later today. Per his staff, the first step will most likely be a retest of my PSA, to make sure the lab didn't make a mistake.

FWIW, I did not receive any radiation therapy, hormone treatments or any other therapy since surgery.

My questions for the Uro (and for the list, and my primary care doctor and my medical oncologist) are these:

1. Does it sometimes take more than 3 months for the PSA to decline?

2. Do the things that cause PSA to spike (sexual activity, other illnesses, heavy work and exercise, stress) continue to affect residual PSA levels even after the

prostate is removed?

3. In the experience of the folks on this list, how bad is the trouble I'm in?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice - either on or off the list.

Thank you!

Coy

[Guest guest]

,I just had my first baseline PSA done today after surgery on 8/6/08. Doctor is looking for anything under a 1.0 for this one. I will be anxious until I see the card showing me the results. I had the DaVinci and due to stress, I am having continence issues, which will be resolving soon based on reduction of SOME of it and continuing the Kegel exercises. I am advising anyone who is scheduled for the surgery to start them long before the surgery for better success.Have a great day!Steve S in Arkansas----- Original

Message ----To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:15:22 PMSubject: Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

Steve:

Thank you for your response. I also want to express my appreciation for the

education you and others on the list have given me through your postings.

It is appreciated very much.

Let me make sure I understand my PSA reading and various thresholds. The

numerical reference is in ng/ml and this is a universal and standard

notation. It is generally considered troubling if PSA is above 2.5 ng/ml

(or perhaps 4.00 ng/ml., depending upon one's age and perhaps mitigated by

one's body weight). My presurgical PSA was 1.43, and such a reading is

routinely expressed in ng/ml. In the same frame of reference, my reading is

now 0.06 ng/ml. The undetectable level is 0.05 ng/ml or below. Do I have

it right?

Stated another way, the following comment I made in a previous posting is

incorrect, and is a misinterpretation of my situation It is not necessary

for me to reposition the decimal point to get ng/ml. I wrote: "My 0.06

(PSA) figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the

measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml

threshold. Or am I mistaken?"

Again, thank you for your response and for the knowledge you and others have

shared about this cancer.

Sincerely,

Coy

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA

> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

>

>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

>

> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

>

> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

> per milliliter.

>

> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

>

> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."

> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.

>

> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

>

> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

> Medicine.

>

> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

> for better selection of those best suited for IAD."

>

> Regards,

>

> Steve J

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

,I just had my first baseline PSA done today after surgery on 8/6/08. Doctor is looking for anything under a 1.0 for this one. I will be anxious until I see the card showing me the results. I had the DaVinci and due to stress, I am having continence issues, which will be resolving soon based on reduction of SOME of it and continuing the Kegel exercises. I am advising anyone who is scheduled for the surgery to start them long before the surgery for better success.Have a great day!Steve S in Arkansas----- Original

Message ----To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:15:22 PMSubject: Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

Steve:

Thank you for your response. I also want to express my appreciation for the

education you and others on the list have given me through your postings.

It is appreciated very much.

Let me make sure I understand my PSA reading and various thresholds. The

numerical reference is in ng/ml and this is a universal and standard

notation. It is generally considered troubling if PSA is above 2.5 ng/ml

(or perhaps 4.00 ng/ml., depending upon one's age and perhaps mitigated by

one's body weight). My presurgical PSA was 1.43, and such a reading is

routinely expressed in ng/ml. In the same frame of reference, my reading is

now 0.06 ng/ml. The undetectable level is 0.05 ng/ml or below. Do I have

it right?

Stated another way, the following comment I made in a previous posting is

incorrect, and is a misinterpretation of my situation It is not necessary

for me to reposition the decimal point to get ng/ml. I wrote: "My 0.06

(PSA) figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the

measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml

threshold. Or am I mistaken?"

Again, thank you for your response and for the knowledge you and others have

shared about this cancer.

Sincerely,

Coy

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA

> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

>

>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

>

> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

>

> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

> per milliliter.

>

> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

>

> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."

> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.

>

> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

>

> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

> Medicine.

>

> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

> for better selection of those best suited for IAD."

>

> Regards,

>

> Steve J

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

,I just had my first baseline PSA done today after surgery on 8/6/08. Doctor is looking for anything under a 1.0 for this one. I will be anxious until I see the card showing me the results. I had the DaVinci and due to stress, I am having continence issues, which will be resolving soon based on reduction of SOME of it and continuing the Kegel exercises. I am advising anyone who is scheduled for the surgery to start them long before the surgery for better success.Have a great day!Steve S in Arkansas----- Original

Message ----To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:15:22 PMSubject: Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

Steve:

Thank you for your response. I also want to express my appreciation for the

education you and others on the list have given me through your postings.

It is appreciated very much.

Let me make sure I understand my PSA reading and various thresholds. The

numerical reference is in ng/ml and this is a universal and standard

notation. It is generally considered troubling if PSA is above 2.5 ng/ml

(or perhaps 4.00 ng/ml., depending upon one's age and perhaps mitigated by

one's body weight). My presurgical PSA was 1.43, and such a reading is

routinely expressed in ng/ml. In the same frame of reference, my reading is

now 0.06 ng/ml. The undetectable level is 0.05 ng/ml or below. Do I have

it right?

Stated another way, the following comment I made in a previous posting is

incorrect, and is a misinterpretation of my situation It is not necessary

for me to reposition the decimal point to get ng/ml. I wrote: "My 0.06

(PSA) figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the

measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml

threshold. Or am I mistaken?"

Again, thank you for your response and for the knowledge you and others have

shared about this cancer.

Sincerely,

Coy

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA

> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

>

>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

>

> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

>

> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

> per milliliter.

>

> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

>

> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."

> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.

>

> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

>

> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

> Medicine.

>

> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

> for better selection of those best suited for IAD."

>

> Regards,

>

> Steve J

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

,I just had my first baseline PSA done today after surgery on 8/6/08. Doctor is looking for anything under a 1.0 for this one. I will be anxious until I see the card showing me the results. I had the DaVinci and due to stress, I am having continence issues, which will be resolving soon based on reduction of SOME of it and continuing the Kegel exercises. I am advising anyone who is scheduled for the surgery to start them long before the surgery for better success.Have a great day!Steve S in Arkansas----- Original

Message ----To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:15:22 PMSubject: Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

Steve:

Thank you for your response. I also want to express my appreciation for the

education you and others on the list have given me through your postings.

It is appreciated very much.

Let me make sure I understand my PSA reading and various thresholds. The

numerical reference is in ng/ml and this is a universal and standard

notation. It is generally considered troubling if PSA is above 2.5 ng/ml

(or perhaps 4.00 ng/ml., depending upon one's age and perhaps mitigated by

one's body weight). My presurgical PSA was 1.43, and such a reading is

routinely expressed in ng/ml. In the same frame of reference, my reading is

now 0.06 ng/ml. The undetectable level is 0.05 ng/ml or below. Do I have

it right?

Stated another way, the following comment I made in a previous posting is

incorrect, and is a misinterpretation of my situation It is not necessary

for me to reposition the decimal point to get ng/ml. I wrote: "My 0.06

(PSA) figure means, I believe, 0.6ng/ml, if I understand how the

measurement system correctly. As such, I am well above the 0.1 ng/ml

threshold. Or am I mistaken?"

Again, thank you for your response and for the knowledge you and others have

shared about this cancer.

Sincerely,

Coy

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA

> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :

>

>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have

>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.

>

> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.

>

> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram

> per milliliter.

>

> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that

> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is

> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.

>

> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate

> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."

> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.

>

> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.

>

> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of

> Medicine.

>

> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude

> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at

> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate

> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged

> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in

> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow

> for better selection of those best suited for IAD."

>

> Regards,

>

> Steve J

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Steve:

Thanks for your comments. Good luck with your PSA! I've come to think that maybe I'm doing better than I am giving myself credit for. Three months out - my Uro was looking for a reading of 0.01 or less. It appears I'm in the hands of a perfectionist, and I guess that's a good thing. Still, I will be getting my PSA re-checked very soon - well before my next visit to the Uro on November 9.

For me, it simply took a while for continence to return. As such, don't be too impatient. After 3 months, I estimate that I'm 98% - 99% continent - perhaps a bit better. I leak rarely, and then it's only a drop or two. I agree with you on the Kegel exercises.

You have a great day also.

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :>>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.>> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.>> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram> per milliliter.>> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.>> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.>> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.>> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of> Medicine.>> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow> for better selection of those best suited for IAD.">> Regards,>> Steve J>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>> There are just two rules for this group> 1 No Spam> 2 Be kind to others>> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs > different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some > men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not > choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we > cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at > other options.>> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Steve:

Thanks for your comments. Good luck with your PSA! I've come to think that maybe I'm doing better than I am giving myself credit for. Three months out - my Uro was looking for a reading of 0.01 or less. It appears I'm in the hands of a perfectionist, and I guess that's a good thing. Still, I will be getting my PSA re-checked very soon - well before my next visit to the Uro on November 9.

For me, it simply took a while for continence to return. As such, don't be too impatient. After 3 months, I estimate that I'm 98% - 99% continent - perhaps a bit better. I leak rarely, and then it's only a drop or two. I agree with you on the Kegel exercises.

You have a great day also.

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :>>> .06 is less than .1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.>> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.>> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram> per milliliter.>> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.>> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.>> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.>> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library of> Medicine.>> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow> for better selection of those best suited for IAD.">> Regards,>> Steve J>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>> There are just two rules for this group> 1 No Spam> 2 Be kind to others>> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs > different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some > men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not > choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we > cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at > other options.>> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Steve S.,

Good luck. I had surgery 7/30/08 and after my initial dissappointment with incontinence I am almost pad free today. Yuo will get there.

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :>>> .06 is less than

..1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.>> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.>> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram> per milliliter.>> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.>> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.>> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.>> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library

of> Medicine.>> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow> for better selection of those best suited for IAD.">> Regards,>> Steve J>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>> There are just two rules for this group> 1 No Spam> 2 Be kind to others>> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs > different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some >

men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not > choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we > cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at > other options.>> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Steve S.,

Good luck. I had surgery 7/30/08 and after my initial dissappointment with incontinence I am almost pad free today. Yuo will get there.

Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :>>> .06 is less than

..1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.>> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.>> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram> per milliliter.>> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.>> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.>> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.>> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library

of> Medicine.>> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow> for better selection of those best suited for IAD.">> Regards,>> Steve J>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>> There are just two rules for this group> 1 No Spam> 2 Be kind to others>> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs > different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some >

men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not > choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we > cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at > other options.>> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

,Thanks for the encouragement. Dr gave me a clamp yesterday. Am working to eliminate it as soon as I can. Doing more sets of Kegels trying to build up the pelvic floor. Hard to do sometimes, but as a pastor and teacher, I stand a lot and get to do them that way. Have to concentrate to tighten the muscles when I get up from a sitting position. A word of advice to all who are preparing for surgery, START YOUR KEGEL EXERCISES WAY EARLY!"Steve S in Arkansas Re: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Disheartening Post surgical PSA> On September 11, Kennedy replied to :>>> .06 is

less than

..1. It is 6 one hundredth of the number one. I have>> never gotten that low a result in the 5 years since my treatment.>> To put it into some perspective, true undetectable PSA is =/< 0.05 ng/mL.>> So what 's recent test shows is six one-hundredths of a nanogram> per milliliter.>> I believe that that is an excellent result. And please bear in mind that> monitoring PSA level is a *process* not a snapshot. A series of tests is> likely to give one a more accurate view than would a single test.>> See Strum SB et al., "Intermittent androgen deprivation in prostate> cancer patients: factors predictive of prolonged time off therapy."> Oncologist 2000;5(1):45- 52.>> Search on Pub Med ID10706649.>> www.pubmed.gov is a publication of the US National Library

of> Medicine.>> The authors define undetectable PSA as =/< 0.05 ng/mL, and conclude> "Hormone-naïve patients who achieve and maintain a UD-PSA for at> least one year during ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) may initiate> IAD (intermittant androgen deprivation) and anticipate a prolonged> off-phase duration. Attainment of a UD-PSA on ADT may serve as an in> vivo sensitivity test of a patient's tumor cell population, and allow> for better selection of those best suited for IAD.">> Regards,>> Steve J>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>> There are just two rules for this group> 1 No Spam> 2 Be kind to others>> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs > different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some >

men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not > choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we > cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at > other options.>> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Steve wrote:

"Have to concentrate to tighten the muscles when I get up from a sitting position."

Steve - I had to do this also. This went on for about a month. All of a sudden, I realized I didn't have to consciously do this anymore. What a great feeling! I can probably go pad free now (3 months after surgery) but I'm still leery of doing so. I'm going to give it a while longer.

It will get better for you.

FWIW, I did go pad free for the evening, one week ago tomorrow. I was in my ish formal attire, and as tradition dictates, I was "regimental". I was standing in for one of my best friends who passed away this past January 3 from heart failure. I was privileged to give his daughter away in marriage.

Coy

Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

,Thanks for the encouragement. Dr gave me a clamp yesterday. Am working to eliminate it as soon as I can. Doing more sets of Kegels trying to build up the pelvic floor. Hard to do sometimes, but as a pastor and teacher, I stand a lot and get to do them that way. Have to concentrate to tighten the muscles when I get up from a sitting position. A word of advice to all who are preparing for surgery, START YOUR KEGEL EXERCISES WAY EARLY!"Steve S in Arkansas

[Guest guest]

Steve wrote:

"Have to concentrate to tighten the muscles when I get up from a sitting position."

Steve - I had to do this also. This went on for about a month. All of a sudden, I realized I didn't have to consciously do this anymore. What a great feeling! I can probably go pad free now (3 months after surgery) but I'm still leery of doing so. I'm going to give it a while longer.

It will get better for you.

FWIW, I did go pad free for the evening, one week ago tomorrow. I was in my ish formal attire, and as tradition dictates, I was "regimental". I was standing in for one of my best friends who passed away this past January 3 from heart failure. I was privileged to give his daughter away in marriage.

Coy

Re: Disheartening Post surgical PSA

,Thanks for the encouragement. Dr gave me a clamp yesterday. Am working to eliminate it as soon as I can. Doing more sets of Kegels trying to build up the pelvic floor. Hard to do sometimes, but as a pastor and teacher, I stand a lot and get to do them that way. Have to concentrate to tighten the muscles when I get up from a sitting position. A word of advice to all who are preparing for surgery, START YOUR KEGEL EXERCISES WAY EARLY!"Steve S in Arkansas

[Guest guest]

On September 12, Steve S replied to :

> Thanks for the encouragement. Dr gave me a clamp yesterday. Am working

> to eliminate it as soon as I can. Doing more sets of Kegels trying to

> build up the pelvic floor. Hard to do sometimes, but as a pastor and

> teacher, I stand a lot and get to do them that way.

Not based upon personal experience but upon what the Chief of Urology at

the local Mayo Hospital told an Us Too group: Don't overdo the kegels.

Like any other muscle, you can cause damage by overuse. IIRC, he

recommended two sets of ten twice a day.

Regards,

Steve J

[Guest guest]

On September 12, Steve S replied to :

> Thanks for the encouragement. Dr gave me a clamp yesterday. Am working

> to eliminate it as soon as I can. Doing more sets of Kegels trying to

> build up the pelvic floor. Hard to do sometimes, but as a pastor and

> teacher, I stand a lot and get to do them that way.

Not based upon personal experience but upon what the Chief of Urology at

the local Mayo Hospital told an Us Too group: Don't overdo the kegels.

Like any other muscle, you can cause damage by overuse. IIRC, he

recommended two sets of ten twice a day.

Regards,

Steve J